freethoughtbubble
Member
This is so fucking stupid. This company sometimes. Stop curb stomping your most ardent and devoted fans, Nintendo! Their works enhance your brand at zero cost to you.
Pokemon Prism (Crystal ROM Hack in Development for 8 years) C&D'd by Nintendo
- Thread starter Anth0ny
- Start date
Except no one was planning to make any money off of Prism. It was going to be released for free. Same with A2MR and Plutonium. So this is an inherently flawed argument.
It's almost like people do these projects to learn how games work and get that talent in the first place.
Yeah, I was serious about looking forward to playing it.
What horseshit. ROM hacks have existed for years and Nintendo hasn't suffered one bit because of them.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Only Nintendo fanboys could find a way to defend Nintendo on this... And repeatedly!
if I were Nintendo the only reason I would shut you down is if you were such a fucking tool that you went all out on promoting your shit. otherwise I'd leave you alone. not much I can do if you released the hack on the down low
seriously I have a sick sense of satisfaction after reading about this dude and what he's done and how Nintendo went at him. brah your 8 years ain't worth shit you fucking tool lol
Shit, if the bullshit he just spewed was true, Pokemon would be a completely and utterly dead IP.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Or sonic for that matter. Or overwatch if you cast a wider net. Those shippers are devaluing the brand!!
Did I miss something? The way you speak about this Koolboyman it seems you are painting him up to be a real asshole.
Garou
Member
There is a difference between a fanart-drawing and something that potentially can replace the paid experience in some form or another.
Imagine someone who has an itch to play Pokémon after anlong hiatus, maybe he plays the fan-remake, maybe he buys it on the VC or maybe he sees a good holiday-deal for a 2DS and Sun/Moon.
As long as there is potential for a lost sale you cannot blame Nintendo for acting on it.
Nintendo sells art books too. Shut down fan art since it can potentially replace that paid experience!
Mind you, this ROM Hack is a mod for a paid Pokémon game.
This is a ROM hack. It's a modification to a game you already own.
ThanksVision
Member
Yeah you're right, I shouldn't have said that without stopping to consider other companies and their respective IPs--thanks for bringing up those examples. Though I wonder if those comparisons directly apply? Like, Bethesda and Valve are on open systems (i.e. PC) and openly approach the modding community, and Sega's biggest IP is sorely lacking in the quality department. Nintendo is kinda antithetical to both of those things (outside of the disrespect for Metroid). They continually shut down the big ROM hacks or mods or games that garner lots of attention, which is why I'm not shocked by this or really feel any sympathy for the ppl making this--its kind of expected at this point albeit shitty. Do you think there's any correlation to the protective guard Nintendo puts on their IPs and things like their ability to keep their games priced at $60 for years? Also do you know what the most popular ROM hack is that hasnt been taken down by Nintendo? I'm genuinely curious as I don't really follow this scene. Again thanks for pointing out the flaw in my statement, sometimes I'm too quick to defend this company cause I love their damn games so much lol.
I'm fucking tired of this attitude toward fan productions on this gaming forum. Fan productions aren't people stealing work. They are people showing respect for things people love. They are efforts that show how skilled a designer/developer is. It shows how you can adapt an established IP in new ways that maybe the parent owner of the IP doesn't try.
Just take a damn look at the Sonic Fan Community. They are making really impressive prototypes and concepts that people should really keep an eye on. SEGA even respects this and even one of the fathers of Sonic approves of the communities efforts.
Nintendo makes it painfully clear they don't want any form of fan productions and that is fine. But what pisses me off the most is view points like yours. People like you act like fan games are some garbage people cobble up together and toss out because 'LOL'.
No. Many of them are amazing products and are the testing ground for amazing titles. Ever heard of Sonic Before/After the Sequel? They were both 2D Classic Sonic fan games that had high production values, amazing sprite work, outstanding music that stands next to the best in official Sonic games and are overall really fun games. Guess what? The creator is working on an original IP called 'Spark the Electric Jester' after his hard work making his own Sonic games and that looks damn impressive.
How about Freedom Planet? That was originally a Sonic Fan game but it morphed into it's own original IP that not only was a critical and commercial success, but is getting a sequel in the future.
Or how about a little game called Sonic Mania? You know, that Classic Sonic game that people are very excited about? That was made by people famous in the Sonic hacking community and after they pitched their tech to SEGA, the let them work on the best damn version of Sonic CD, Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 ever released. Now? They have the blessing and cooperation from Sonic Team themselves to make a brand new original Sonic adventure.
But all fan games are shit after all..........so what do I know. Right?
You disgust me.
LightningXCE
Member
what is wrong with you
BassForever
Member
Square Enix C&D Crimson Echoes back in the day the Chrono Trigger "sequel" rom hack
Professor Beef
Banned
Call me cynical, but I highly doubt very many people own a copy of Crystal anymore. And of that small pool, each of them have dumped the ROM. I could be completely wrong though, so *shrug*
I don't think their protective stance has anything to do with keeping the price high. As previously pointed out, the ROM hacking scene for Pokémon is really big, with several high profile rom hacks available. Yet, despite all that, the IP didn't die, and Sun and Moon is beating records at full price.
serenewarfare
Banned
Very similar situation too. Both games were essentially done and had dates set. Hopefully we get Prism leaked like we got Crimson Echoes.
Apparently posting about a mod for a game you've been working on for the past 8 years on social media makes you a massive asshole who deserves to have all your work stomped on. Pretty dumb opinion which is why no one engaged with their previous post.
Yeah, I checked his Twitter and he seems pretty cool about it to be honest. Like, he's obviously disappointed he can't release it. But he's also positive about the thing expressing his thanks to everyone and saying he learned so much from it. Hell, he even blames himself for the trailer and stuff.
I mean obviously he's going to be cool about it, most people who dedicate eight years of hard work on a fan project aren't just gonna flip on a switch when the company comes down on them.
They are just securizing their authorship rights there so there is no precedent for others to build on. It has nothing to do with "the fans". This is standard procedure in a world with strict copyrights, don't blame Nintendo for this.
And since these ROM hack are rather mediocre every time(*) we don't lose a lot here
*well when this just makes the game more difficult it's alright
Jimmyfenix
Member
Wtf?
Marketing, it's far easier to get more people to play your game if it's connected to a known brand.
I write stories and all of my stories are 100% original due to the fact I won't be able to sell them if they are based on someone else's work.
Now that isn't to say that I don't study other people's works, break them apart and see how its works and see if my stories can work like that.
Not sure about fan-fictions but I do know that a few fan films did get C&D.
-They're using the Pokémon branding, they didn't get permission for that.
- If they're using the engine from the Pokémon games, they didn't get permission for that.
So yeah they did steal someone else work and the only original thing about the game was probably the region and possibly any original characters they created.
Honestly the real reason why they shut it down was it looked like an official product so they wanted to nip that in the bud as The Pokémon Company is very protective of their branding, especially considering one of the Pokémon is called the Prism Pokémon.
There was no need for them use the Pokémon IP and instead what they should have done is created an original game that was inspire by the series and use that as their marketing push as well as being the guy behind twitch plays Pokémon.
It's a mod. For a game. They don't need permission from anyone to mod the damn game.
Except they don't have to do it constantly, don't do it to everyone, and don't even have the resources to wipe out every single hack, mod, or fangame that pops up. Why do you think this topic is about Nintendo specifically? It's because they have been especially (over)active when it comes to these claims.
No, it isn't "standard procedure". They are not doing it because of some obligation, they are doing it because they are assholes. There's a complete fuckload of developers and publishers that allow fangames and mods just fine. Stop acting like Nintendo "has" to do this shit.
SenkiDala
Member
Can someone explains me what is the "ok limit" and the "not ok anymore limit" about copyrights? Especially things related to Nintendo?
Why making demakes/fan games is absolutly forbidden, but selling "fan tshirts" or stuff like that with Mario, Kirby, Metroid, NES/SNES/N64 controllers on it is ok?
What is ok what isn't ok? Games not ok but fan clothes is ok? Fan goodies is ok (plushies and all)? But why?! Seriously.
And making drawing of Mario is ok? If a kid is in a park drawing a Pikachu, Nintendo can sue his parents?!
What is the limit, I'm really wondering.
Why making demakes/fan games is absolutly forbidden, but selling "fan tshirts" or stuff like that with Mario, Kirby, Metroid, NES/SNES/N64 controllers on it is ok?
What is ok what isn't ok? Games not ok but fan clothes is ok? Fan goodies is ok (plushies and all)? But why?! Seriously.
And making drawing of Mario is ok? If a kid is in a park drawing a Pikachu, Nintendo can sue his parents?!
What is the limit, I'm really wondering.
Jonneh3003
Banned
They clearly do. Nintendo has made it quite clear that they don't support people making games with their IP's, whether it's for profit or not.
I don't agree with it myself but if Nintendo don't support it then there really isn't anything more to it.
Professor Beef
Banned
Sure. But if you're going to widely distribute that mod and flaunt it on Youtube and Twitch without permission, then don't be shocked by the results.
And to a degree, at zero profit too.
Maybe I held off on getting Pokemon Sun or Moon, but was rather waiting on this project releasing since its free and was announced around the same time as Pokemon S/M.
Then they should release it anyway.
For real, the corporate ball-washing going on in this thread is ridiculous. Some of ya'll acting like these devs would receive enough profit from any of these fan-games that they release for free to make these fan-games exploitative. Eventually people will just give up on making fan-games for Nintendo.
Transforming is okay under fair use. You take something from one medium and create something completely different. Like making a video game into a t-shirt.
Very often you still have companies C&D those works, since they don't like it (like porn) and most artist don't would to go to court for it.
Of course, if you make a video game of an existing video game and don't change the gameplay, it is hard to see it as transforming. Good example where this would still work, would be those Flash games, which PETA did on Mario and Cooking Mama. Those were clearly parodies, which are also okay under fair use.
If you use an IP or anything else that can be copyrighted to release a product that you don't own. You are not legally in the clear.
The muddy area comes from Fair use. Fair is typically meant to keep small groups and individuals safe when using their owned products how they see fit. A good rule of thumb is if it has an audience larger than a classroom or you are making money off it then it does not fall under fair use. There are also exceptions for parody and transformative works. The problem is a lot of fair use cases are taken on a case by case basis, decided in court, and really an individual is more than likely not going to win that legal battle.
There are legal precedents for specific cases that violate all of these rules though. And if your work has a clear legal precedent then you are more than likely in the clear.
It's important to note that if a company does not defend their IP they can actually lose certain rights to it. That's why companies go after more prominent examples of these to 1. Prove they are actively defending their IP and 2. Attempt to scare smaller projects.
Yes, they can mod it. But they are not allowed to publish it.
They clearly don't. Just because they are threatening people don't mean they are in the right. People can issue cease and desists, DMCAs and all that at whoever they fucking wish to issue it to, no matter if it's actually valid or not. But since they are a multi-billion dollar company, they can just bully people all they fucking want.
Again, there's no need for permission. It's,again, a damn mod.
It is there right to defend them self against copyright violation. You may don't like it, but it doesn't change the rules.
Again. You can mod it, but not publish it.
Professor Beef
Banned
I didn't disagree with you in terms of just making the mod. I was talking about widely distributing it, which is another story.
Osukaa
Member
Have to agree with this guy. I mean what do they expect to happen? To think they wasted 8 years for nothing blows my mind.. I would like to think that at least one of them would have had the sense (in my mind at least) to be like like "Uhhhh guys... Nintendo is pretty harsh with these kind of things.. I dunno maybe we should stop or change the sprites or hell even change the name or something before we get shut down for obvious reasons"
SenkiDala
Member
Thanks for the answer guys, I got it. 
So if tomorrow one of the main activity of Nintendo is making tshirts, then the "fan made tshirts" would be most likely removed of the market, right?
What I feel a little unfair is that those guys who make fan games are not making money from it, or at least not directly, so it's a bit exagerated to kill those projects. It's not like it would kill, for exemple, the Pokémon Sun & Moon sales anyway. That's my opinion at least.
So if tomorrow one of the main activity of Nintendo is making tshirts, then the "fan made tshirts" would be most likely removed of the market, right?
What I feel a little unfair is that those guys who make fan games are not making money from it, or at least not directly, so it's a bit exagerated to kill those projects. It's not like it would kill, for exemple, the Pokémon Sun & Moon sales anyway. That's my opinion at least.
BassForever
Member
It seems to me that the rom hacks that have been c&d (crimson echoes and prism) we're basically fan games with a very large presence the likes of which most romhacks don't get. Entire websites dedicated to mario world and super metroid rom hacking have and continue to exist that Nintendo hasn't bothered to touch for over a decade. Zelda classic which is basically a freeware version of zelda 1 with tools to create your own game has a website full of these fan games that has also exist for many years now.
Looking back at those old rom hacks and fan games all of them basically gained notoriety through grass roots and word of mouth without any real advertising on youtube/twitch/facebook/etc. Even rom hacks that basically make entirely new games like Zelda Parallel World and Grumps Dream Course basically went untouched. The latter is interesting since its a fairly new rom hack/fan game and doing some research it was basically announced when it was finished and shipped to GG and the next update was its public release without any other advertisement or fanfare afterwards.
The lesson to be learned here is if you want to make a fan game based upon a Nintendo IP, keep it quiet until its out there odds are Nintendo won't bother to c&d you and even if they do you're already done and have likely moved on.
Looking back at those old rom hacks and fan games all of them basically gained notoriety through grass roots and word of mouth without any real advertising on youtube/twitch/facebook/etc. Even rom hacks that basically make entirely new games like Zelda Parallel World and Grumps Dream Course basically went untouched. The latter is interesting since its a fairly new rom hack/fan game and doing some research it was basically announced when it was finished and shipped to GG and the next update was its public release without any other advertisement or fanfare afterwards.
The lesson to be learned here is if you want to make a fan game based upon a Nintendo IP, keep it quiet until its out there odds are Nintendo won't bother to c&d you and even if they do you're already done and have likely moved on.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
naw dude's probably a nice guy. I just like seeing things go south for people. it's sick, I know
Professor Beef
Banned
Mods aren't copyright violation. They are not distributing a ROM
No, it can't divert them. People who want a free Pokemon to play already have all the official ones plus the hundreds of rom hacks out there. This one rom hack wasn't a magical occurence that is a mega rare sight or anything, and piracy for the older titles exists.
They literally distributing a ROM. You can mod anything in your house, like you want. But if you distributing to other people, you break copyright laws.