King Gilga
Member
Ah right cheers, I'd just assumed that was all on his Executor ship.
Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS
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Ah right cheers, I'd just assumed that was all on his Executor ship.
So the moment he puts together that Jyn's theme has Dies fucking Iare in it, I had a total synaptical misfire. This podcast took me to church with that revelation. Also really fascinating is how Giacchino went back to the original's score to pull from it a little bit in connection to Leia's message and Galen's in Rogue One.
I've definitely got a greater appreciation for the score after this, so hopefully they'll release the next part soon. Maybe next time it'll just be the music expert going uninterrupted. Looking through their other Oxygen episodes now, I want to see what they said for VII.
LoveCake
Member
I have not long got back from the cinema after watching Rogue One, it was better than I expected (much much better than The Force Awakens).
I quite enjoyed it, the characters were pretty decent, still pretty one dimensional though and I didn't see the point of Saw Gerrera (Forest Whitaker) there should have either been more of the character or not bothered with at all.
I did like Jyn Erso, but Cassian Andor just seemed to be too much like the reluctant hero Luke Skywalker and the same can be said for Jyn Erso as too eager to get up and go and fight like Princess Leia, and it was clear to me that Leia and Luke had been used as a template for Jyn and Cassian.
I so wanted to see Chirrut Îmwe when he was walking out to the computer terminal when holding that thing in his hand, that looked like a light-sabre handle for it to spontaneously expand into a orange flash and become an actual light-sabre.
I was surprised to see Princess Leia at the end of the film though, when it was getting to the point when passing the data-card along from one to another I did think will we see Princess Leia and after recent events it made it more poignant for me (as I had not seen any spoilers [other than in playing Star Wars: Battlefront]).
The only concern regarding the entire series, if the plans for the Death Star were beamed into space wouldn't the Empire ships have picked it up and also it's hard to believe there was only one set of plans, thus wouldn't the Empire have been able to find the weak point of the Death Star, and we know that there are plans somewhere because they would have needed them to build the second Death Star (Return of the Jedi) and don't forget how long it would take to build a Death Star.
I quite enjoyed it, the characters were pretty decent, still pretty one dimensional though and I didn't see the point of Saw Gerrera (Forest Whitaker) there should have either been more of the character or not bothered with at all.
I did like Jyn Erso, but Cassian Andor just seemed to be too much like the reluctant hero Luke Skywalker and the same can be said for Jyn Erso as too eager to get up and go and fight like Princess Leia, and it was clear to me that Leia and Luke had been used as a template for Jyn and Cassian.
I so wanted to see Chirrut Îmwe when he was walking out to the computer terminal when holding that thing in his hand, that looked like a light-sabre handle for it to spontaneously expand into a orange flash and become an actual light-sabre.
I was surprised to see Princess Leia at the end of the film though, when it was getting to the point when passing the data-card along from one to another I did think will we see Princess Leia and after recent events it made it more poignant for me (as I had not seen any spoilers [other than in playing Star Wars: Battlefront]).
The only concern regarding the entire series, if the plans for the Death Star were beamed into space wouldn't the Empire ships have picked it up and also it's hard to believe there was only one set of plans, thus wouldn't the Empire have been able to find the weak point of the Death Star, and we know that there are plans somewhere because they would have needed them to build the second Death Star (Return of the Jedi) and don't forget how long it would take to build a Death Star.
Yes, but Star Wars villains ARE comical, so it fits perfectly.
And how the Emperor and Vader look. Especially the Emperor and the way he walks always with his hands in front of him.
Ooooh! So EEEEVIL! I mean, can't get anymore cartoony than that.
And how the Emperor and Vader look. Especially the Emperor and the way he walks always with his hands in front of him.
Ooooh! So EEEEVIL! I mean, can't get anymore cartoony than that.
I have no idea what you're trying to imply, mate. Star Wars villains have always been famously understated in their approach to villainy.
Man, I always cackle like a maniac during that scene. I dunno, brings a smile to my face to think that Mr. McDiarmid was just having tons of fun with his role.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Unfortunately, the bolded never happens. You have to put up with the Morning Zoo dipshit on every episode. He just talks less on some of 'em
DoctorFling
Member
And how the Emperor and Vader look. Especially the Emperor and the way he walks always with his hands in front of him.
Ooooh! So EEEEVIL! I mean, can't get anymore cartoony than that.
He's so powerful that he walks like a t-rex
How cool can you get
Jack Scofield
Member
And how the Emperor and Vader look. Especially the Emperor and the way he walks always with his hands in front of him.
Ooooh! So EEEEVIL! I mean, can't get anymore cartoony than that.
Man, I just love the look of the throne room.
Seriously, rewatching this the CGI is even more convincing than I thought.
CloudyTuba
Member
So, without fail so far, ever person I talk to that has seen Rogue 1 that is less familiar with the OT or has not seen it in a long time does not even realize that Tarkin was CGI. I ask then what they thought of CG Tarkin and they don't even know what I'm talking about. It catches both of us off guard.
It seems that those of us that are more familiar with Peter and already know that he is CG are much more likely to find fault.
That's very interesting. That knowledge must be giving many of us more judgmental eyes, scanning for hints of what we already know is true. Is it my memory of how Tarkin looked under different lighting and different acting that is tipping me off?
I'm kind of amazed that so many people have no clue. Makes me think that maybe CG Tarkin isn't getting enough credit.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This isn't really the case though
You can find examples of people who have never seen Star Wars noting the CG nature of Tarkin in the 5 or 6 threads about this film on the forum. That's not even counting twitter/facebook.
Granted, these people are probably a minority of viewers, but that doesn't somehow prove that people are being judgmental based on pre-existing knowledge of Cushing's death, either.
And how the Emperor and Vader look. Especially the Emperor and the way he walks always with his hands in front of him.
Ooooh! So EEEEVIL! I mean, can't get anymore cartoony than that.
I just want to chime in and say that ROTJ Emperor looks so appropriately evil. It's a shame Lucas turned him into the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man for the prequels
demosthenes
Member
They didn't know there was a weak point. The only person from the empire that knew was Krennic because Jyn told him at the end. He was killed. All the empire knows is that the alliance has the plans. They don't know that a weakness has been built into it.
I'm not really trying to be nitpicky here. But if the Empire knew the Rebels were trying to get schematics to the Death Star, wouldn't that prompt the Empire to also inspect the plans to see if their was a flaw? I'm willing to write that off to Imperial arrogance though.
Also, it's kind of funny that the Empire themselves nuked the original copy of the Death Star plans.
Also, it's kind of funny that the Empire themselves nuked the original copy of the Death Star plans.
CloudyTuba
Member
I'm not trying to suggest this as the sole reason anyone can tell it's CGI but I realize the way I worded it was a little too definitively for the point I wanted to make. I have edited it.
Obviously not every single person is going to be fooled by the special effects and you don't necessarily need prior knowledge of Cushing to see it, but I do suggest that it plays a large part in the reaction of many existing fans and enthusiasts.
Tarkin was in charge of the Death Star and he was shown to be arrogant. His plan was to find the Rebel base and blow their shit up and he believed there wasn't anything they could do about it in the amount of time they had. As we know, only a few more seconds and he would have been right. I dont think he expected them to beat him to the punch.
Commander: We've analyzed their attack, sir, and there is a danger. Should I have your ship standing by?
Governor Tarkin: Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances.
It was known and Tarkin said fuck it.
Also, the above dialogue indicates that the Rebel's trench run is what lead them in the right direction to discovering the flaw. Maybe they already were going through the plans. There's a moon's-worth of plans to go over. It's going to take a while when you don't know what you're looking for.
Galen's message pointed them in the right direction. The Empire had no idea where to look or even that there was something to look for in the first place, right? Not until the X-wings started down their trench and they started wondering what the hell they were even doing.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I think it's implied by Galen's message that the Empire is well aware of the flaw because it was too obvious for them to not notice, but it was always all part of Galen's plan and was able to convince them it was technically necessary. The arrogance took over from there that the Rebels would never be able to exploit it anyway.
The series of events happened within like a day or two; I doubt the Imperial Death Star engineers would have found the flaw hidden in plain sight in one of the millions of exhaust ports; especially when Krennic executed them for treason.
The rebels found it in like an hour
Jyn was there the day before telling them about it.
Still, if the movie implies that the Empire was aware of the flaw but went with it anyway and knew the Rebels stole a copy of the Death Star plans, wouldn't they pretty quickly go down the same investigative path as the Rebels? Still though, nitpicking aside, you can write it off as Imperial arrogance since Tarkin was in command and he was arrogant AF right up until he died.
I don't remember the part of Rogue One that implies the Empire knew of the flaw; only that they knew the plans were leaked. The only time I remember the Empire knew there was a danger was in the end of A New Hope when all of a sudden a bunch of X-Wings and Y-Wings were trying to bomb the end of a random trench; it was that that tipped them off that there must be something important there.
I thought the CGI was really flawless myself and it left me feeling really excited. I'm a big Tarkin fan, so I was totally thrilled to see the character turn up in the film and was really surprised to see the character having such a prevalent role, with a lot of confident close-ups and interactions with the Imperial characters. I was just sitting in the cinema, kind of open-mouthed whilst staring at the screen thinking "Holy shit! It's fucking Peter Cushing, right there on screen! How are they doing this?" It just really, really worked for me...although I appreciate that wasn't the case for many others. And say what you like, Tarkin and Leia's inclusion was an incredible technical achievement which must have taken a great deal of effort to bring to life. I really appreciated the film-maker's taking on that extra challenge, especially when it would have been far, far easier for them to just excise those characters from film completely. Certainly, no-one would have probably blamed them if they took that route, which makes the extra effort on behalf of the film-makers for little more than continuity's sake all the more remarkable.
I just still find it so exciting to see Peter Cushing's Tarkin acting out scenes in a brand new Star Wars movies right there in front of me, even if in reflection the implementation of the technology is like something out of The Congress. But yeah, I just thought it was really neat and cool. Sorry if that makes me a slack-jawed yokel, people!
I kind of dug it myself. Especially in that scene where Sidious is "pleading" for his life. He's just so monstrously expressive.
Didn't Galen specifically mention having gone to laborious trouble covering up the defect in the engineering, to such an extent that it would never be found upon close inspection? Also, keep in mind...the Death Star is the size of a small moon. That's a lot of ground to cover in as little as a couple of days before it eventually gets blown up by the Rebels.
I kind of dug it myself. Especially in that scene where Sidious is "pleading" for his life. He's just so monstrously expressive.
I just cant get over how damn puffy he looks in ROTS compared to Jedi
It's like TPM Yoda where Lucas apparently forgot what Yoda looked like
Darth Vader wears a cape. Him and the Emperor are all about theatricality.
demosthenes
Member
Imagine you're the empire. The rebels are trying to steal something from the archives. They don't know for sure that it's the death star and they probably never will because they blew up the freaking base. Imagine they did know that it was the death star because an empire ship heard the broadcast and also accepted it. Now...
Imagine how large the death star is. Even if they did know there was a weakness in the design. How long would it take to really find it. The death star is blown up within ~3 days of RO ending.
Capes/robes are basically a fashion thing in Star Wars, though. It's not just those two being theatric
CloudyTuba
Member
I just cant get over how damn puffy he looks in ROTS compared to Jedi
It's like TPM Yoda where Lucas apparently forgot what Yoda looked like
Even Ian McDiarmid himself complained about how puffy he looked in ROTS. I've seen it in interviews and he mentioned it at Celebration 2015.
He said that for ROTJ, his makeup and prosthetics were done in multiple pieces and layers. For ROTS, most of it was one big piece like a mask including the neck. He most dislikes how thick and flabby it made his neck look.
I was sort of surprised about how much prequel bashing I heard from people involved in production at Celebration 2015.
LeadenStride
Member
I don't know about that. I had no idea Tarkin would be in the movie, let alone him being CG. Yet, I recognised it the very first second his face appeared on the screen. I also only afterwards realised that they had no other choice, as the actor would certainly not look the same as almost forty years ago or even be alive anymore (which, unfortunately, is true in this case). So, I had no prior knowledge and still noticed it immediately.
Instead, I think it boils down to how sensitive you are to recognising CG animation in the first place. Especially more casual movie-goers don't spot it as easily and/or even care that much.
Still, Darth Vader is all about theatricality. His movements, his voice... Probably the best example of it is in The Empire Strikes Back where he greets Han and Leia over a dinner table and says "We would be honored... If you would join us."
I have to imagine that was a very uncomfortable meal.
demosthenes
Member
Still, Darth Vader is all about theatricality. His movements, his voice... Probably the best example of it is in The Empire Strikes Back where he greets Han and Leia over a dinner table and says "We would be honored... If you would join us."
I have to imagine that was a very uncomfortable meal.
I hope Han would say something along the lines of "what's wrong Darth, soup not to your liking"?
bishopcruz
Member
We have Poe Dameron for that.
Gold_Loot
Member
I always liked admiral Bone-to-pick myself.
SAVAGE OPRESS.
Jest Chillin
Member
Still, Darth Vader is all about theatricality. His movements, his voice... Probably the best example of it is in The Empire Strikes Back where he greets Han and Leia over a dinner table and says "We would be honored... If you would join us."
I have to imagine that was a very uncomfortable meal.
Star Wars design is meant to remind of standard fantasy. Capes/Cloaks, Lightsabers, and even some titles (Jedi Knights) were meant to invoke Medieval/High Fantasy in space.
CloudyTuba
Member
Still, Darth Vader is all about theatricality. His movements, his voice... Probably the best example of it is in The Empire Strikes Back where he greets Han and Leia over a dinner table and says "We would be honored... If you would join us."
I have to imagine that was a very uncomfortable meal.
I always liked to imagine that scene. I hope Vader really did force them all to sit down, have a bite and talk first. Giving them a more civilized chance to join him before bringing the hammer down.
The tension would have been off the charts. It's a scene I would have loved to see but in practice it might have ended up too cheesy for inclusion. Probably better left to imagination. Either way I hope it happened. I was never certain whether Vader was only sitting in there for the purpose of his trap, or if they really did sit down together to talk first.
You had no prior knowledge of him being in the movie, but how well do you remember Tarkin from ANH? Part of what I suggested was that your image of him in your memory is important, too. Not necessarily being surprised by his inclusion. Being surprised doesn't really have any bearing on what I said, actually.
I will reiterate though: Obviously not every person is going to be fooled by the special effects and you don't need prior knowledge of Cushing to see it, but I do suggest that it plays a large part in the reaction of many existing fans and enthusiasts.
As you said though, you just may be personally more sensitive.
Jack Scofield
Member
Did anyone else think it was strange how cleanly that one Star Destroyer sliced through the other? It was less of a collision and more like a knife going through butter.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Great post. To me bad fanservice is when you just rehash the same plot elements (TFA did that in spades) and throw awkward references that don't fit (the Special Editions did that). Rogue One didn't do any of that.
I loved that little guy! It's actually Warwick Davis too, which is neat.I didn't know Kurtwood Smith was in this movie
Agreed on all counts. I must say I really like your Star Wars opinions haha. -)
In the other thread (about R1 "improving the OT") some poster was arguing that Darth Vader in R1 was "too cartoony". And they actually said, and I quote, "Star Wars wasn't cartoony until shitty CGI characters started showing up since the Special Editions."
Like, seriously mate, have you even watched the original films at all? lol
'Cause capes are cool. It is known.
I thought it was a bit funny but eh.... not like we can really Mythbuster that, ya know?
demosthenes
Member
With the Star Destroyer's crashing onto the planet and the Death Star blast it's a bad day to be on Scariff. The mostly intact Star Destroyer will crash into Scariff because of the disabling of its engines and the damage from hitting the other and the other one was already on its way down. Planet is fked.
Still, Darth Vader is all about theatricality. His movements, his voice... Probably the best example of it is in The Empire Strikes Back where he greets Han and Leia over a dinner table and says "We would be honored... If you would join us."
I have to imagine that was a very uncomfortable meal.
Off topic but this scene also establishes that Han Solo is truly in a badass tier all on his own. Everyone else, upon seeing Vader, would immediately shit their pants in fear and/or try to escape. Han's first reaction is to pull out his blaster and dust the sum bitch. Han had to be frozen in carbonite twice, once for him and once for his massive set of balls.
I think it was pretty odd. Unless the second Star Destroyer also had its shield down, I don't think it should have been that damaged. Especially when a few minutes later we see a ship going into hyperspace crunch into the Devastator's face with no damage.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That shot might be my favorite of the whole film, by the way.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm like 99% certain that Star Destroyer does get its shield generator blown out by an X-Wing prior to the other Star Destoyer smashing into it
Oh, you might be right. I assumed it the Star Destroyer that got ion torpedoed was the one that lost its shield, but it makes more sense the way you described it.
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