Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS

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Bolivar687 said:
That's unfair.
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It really isn't. I'll give you this, at least you didn't burp up the term fa--

I say I liked it overall because I can enjoy the film for the fanservice that it is.
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Well shit.

Also, your read of Rogue One/Force Awakens as having betrayed its roots in Americana because there aren't any American accents on the heroes side is ridiculous.

The idea that American mythology can't be American unless it has an American accent while ignoring America itself is a country made almost 100% out of immigrants is a pretty big fucking stumble in your argument. That's not even getting into your notion that somehow "Disney" is at fault in this regard when Lucasfilm is the company making the films and Disney's creative input is minimal at best, and what input they did give did not involve Alan Horn passing down notes to Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams and Gareth Edwards that said "take out all the American accents. I don't get it."

It's also misconstruing the political examples Lucas was drawing from in his creation of the Star Wars mythology, and not for nothing, but when he does go out of his way to specifically reference American politics, it's usually the right wing side of it, and it's not great. Star Wars was a response to Nixon. The Emperor was loosely based on him. The Empire was loosely based on Nazis, yes, but by the time Return of the Jedi rolls around, they're ALSO based on Vietnam era America.

I quoted your shit multiple times because it was the easiest way to highlight how contradictory and poorly thought out the criticism was.
 
Comfort Jones said:
I'm not sure what part of this film made it "better than The Force Awakens" for people. The boring characters? Fucking CGI Tarkin?

Oh let me guess it was the drawn out shoot outs and war scenes and nothing to do with the characters.
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This one had better villan than TFA emo guy. This one answered the questions. TFA raised questions. THIS ONE HAS VADER.
 
everything is inspired by teh monomyth
thats why its the monomyth

also there is a shit ton of mythology is america and suggesting otherwise is racist as all get out
 
Of all the annoying things late-era Red Letter Media has managed to impress upon its malleable viewership, this ill-founded, simplistic, easy idea that "DISNEY" is 100% in control of everything that happens with Star Wars, and that all decisions absolutely 100% go through them at all times in all instances, is one of the worst. It's completely ignorant of how the films are actually getting made, and a lot of the really stupid, mean-spirited, and cynical assumptions regarding "forced diversity" and "pandering" seem to source straight from that misconception.

Also, pretty interesting how, of the film studios Disney does own, the only one automatically presumed to have NO agency in their own decisionmaking is the one run by women.
 
I don't know if making the characters more memorable would help the movie. Maybe having the characters be squares was a good thing. I don't think the daughter of a scientist needs to be too charismatic. Nor do her sidekicks, although the bot was oddly lovable.

Maybe it would be nice to have gotten to know some of the characters a little more. When that tidal wave was coming for the chick and the dude I thought "you got the job done though, nice!" Same went for the rest of the characters who died fighting the good fight.

Shrug. I'm content with what was served.
 
Bobby Roberts, I understand why you're reading a political connotation into my posts but I hope you can give me the benefit of the doubt because that's genuinely not where this is coming from. I apologize if they came off that way and I absolutely agree with you that the flak Disney catches for imagined top-level mandates is both unfair and unwarranted.

I just think it's pretty explicit that the use of language is creatively incompatible with the original trilogy, where I believe a conscious decision was made for the protagonists to speak like contemporary American youth in the 1970s.
 
Bolivar687 said:
I just think it's pretty explicit that the use of language is creatively incompatible with the original trilogy, where I believe a conscious decision was made for the protagonists to speak like contemporary American youth in the 1970s.
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It wasn't really a conscious decision. You're extrapolating shit that isn't there. They filmed in Britain so it was easier to cast British actors as villains. Even some of the American-accented actors hired for the Rebellion were working in Britain at the time they were hired, and some of those same actors ended up playing in the Empire as well. Not to mention Carrie Fisher's British accent, as well as Ben Kenobi's, and Genevieve Reilly doing a Caroline Blakiston impersonation (which is British, as well). And that's not even getting into the aliens on the Rebel side. By the time Return of the Jedi came around, the Rebellion was absolutely shown to be a multicultural collection of various races, species, and genders, with various languages and accents included.

The idea that the accents in Rogue One are "creatively incompatible" with Star Wars doesn't make any sense, man. Zero.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
It wasn't really a conscious decision. You're extrapolating shit that isn't there. They filmed in Britain so it was easier to cast British actors as villains. Even some of the American-accented actors hired for the Rebellion were working in Britain at the time they were hired, and some of those same actors ended up playing in the Empire as well. Not to mention Carrie Fisher's British accent, as well as Ben Kenobi's, and Genevieve Reilly doing a Caroline Blakiston impersonation (which is British, as well). And that's not even getting into the aliens on the Rebel side. By the time Return of the Jedi came around, the Rebellion was absolutely shown to be a multicultural collection of various races, species, and genders, with various languages and accents included.

The idea that the accents in Rogue One are "creatively incompatible" with Star Wars doesn't make any sense, man. Zero.
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I disagree. Leia notably drops the British accent in the film when she isn't around Tarkin and the rebels on Hoth all speak in American accents while the Imperials continue to use their trademark British accents. Obi-Wan and Mon Mothma aren't enough to downplay an otherwise obvious contrast.

I realize this is probably a pretty dull point to harp on so I apologize again if you took this as a political argument.
 
Bolivar687 said:
I disagree. Leia notably drops the British accent halfway through the film when she isn't around Tarkin/Vader and the rebels on Hoth all speak in American accents while the Imperials continue to use their trademark British accents. Obi-Wan and Mon Mothma aren't enough to downplay an otherwise clear contrast.
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Again, you're extrapolating shit that largely isn't there. And even if you were correct that this was 100% intended (Fisher's dropping the accent wasn't story-based, she just gave up, your handwaving of Mothma & Kenobi aside) the thrust of your argument is still silly because it suggests the biggest, most concrete and necessry link in Star Wars, from one set of heroes to the next, has to be the dialect in which our heroes speak.

That doesn't make any sense.

I honestly can't even understand why you'd want to come at this from that angle, man.
 
Well saw it last night. I really really enjoyed it. Can't say I disliked anything about it. Loved how it tied right into the first movie. They made Lord a Vader so freaking dangerous. While he was in few scenes. He commanded those scenes with authority.

The ending hit hard tho. My mom and I got teary eyed.
 
Gotchaye said:
I just saw this. I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. The big land and space battles felt like Star Wars in a way that the prequels and 7 never did. Basically every scene with X-Wings fighting was incredible. The story and characters were simple and inoffensive. The comic relief robot was better than anything they've done since original C3PO and R2D2.

The cameos mostly worked for me, but the major returning characters were weaker, and sometimes the movie would lean too heavily on trying to impress the audience with original trilogy stuff. The CG on Tarkin was pretty noticeable. I know it was JEJ doing the voice but Vader sounded off. Vader was also characterized differently - his "choke" pun was awful, though I guess maybe they felt like it was similar to his original lines about the Emperor not being as forgiving? - and him assaulting a rebel capital ship by himself was really weird since like two hours later in A New Hope he comes lumbering in behind the boarding party. The final big zoom on CG Leia was also pretty bad, though not hour-long helicopter Luke shot bad. Everyone knows who Princess Leia is and the movie doesn't need to go out of its way to say "hey this is significant".

Why didn't the Chinese guy disappear? So fine he's not a Jedi but he's got to be basically the same thing, right?
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That's pretty consistent with how Vader is in the rest of the OT. When there's something critical the Empire is after, Vader goes straight for it - in this case, trying to get the plans. Vader was there to try and stop them escaping, he wasn't going to delegate that to some troopers. In ANH, they had the ship captured, and the rebels were entrenched, so he let the storm troopers do the dirty work. No need to go in, since they had the ship.

In Empire, the moment the Hoth base is breached Vader is marching at the vanguard straight through it, after Han and company, similar to RO (but with less on screen murder). Later on Bespin as well, casually taking shots from Han rather than having troopers arrest him first.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
the thrust of your argument is still silly because it suggests the biggest, most concrete and necessry link in Star Wars, from one set of heroes to the next, has to be the dialect in which our heroes speak.
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While I admittedly think it's another example of what Lucas was doing going over the heads of the new creators, I've never remotely suggested it's the biggest, concrete or neccessary link in Star Wars heroes. I've tried my best to keep this civil so please respect that and do misconstrue my posts like this in the future.
 
Comfort Jones said:
I'm not sure what part of this film made it "better than The Force Awakens" for people. The boring characters? Fucking CGI Tarkin?

Oh let me guess it was the drawn out shoot outs and war scenes and nothing to do with the characters.

I feel like some of the reception to this film really makes me believe a huge portion of star wars fans don't love the original movies for its cinematography, it's characters, or its main themes/emotional core. They care about light sabers, explosions, and all the other shit you cram into the video games and sell with action figures.

The film is dour as hell and lives in ANH's shadow even harder than a movie copying its story. The Force Awakens sets up new characters with a universe I wanna see continue on. Rogue One kills off a cast of people whose names I couldn't remember and leads into a family friendly adventure film i watched as a child.
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100% agree with all of this post (although I did still enjoy R1 overall).
 
crazy monkey said:
This one had better villan than TFA emo guy. This one answered the questions. TFA raised questions. THIS ONE HAS VADER.
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This movie had a villain? You mean that bland admiral (or whatever he was, can't remember) in white? Or are we talking about CG Tarkin? Eh. That was pretty cool I guess, but I was bothered by the CG. Couldn't quite "believe" in him as a real person.

What questions did this movie answer, exactly...? Who stole the plans? Awesome, it was "some girl, some guys, and that robot". Anything else? I really can't think of anything. And why would it? The movie tells a story we already knew, add simply puts some forgettable faces on those rebels we already knew stole the plans. That's all it does. It's a fun, but ultimately pointless movie that does nothing for the rest of the saga.

And yeah, TFA raises questions, as it should. What would be the damn point of VIII and IX if VII answered everything...? I don't get it.
 
Spartancarver said:
B-Wings in general are cool as fuck though. Always loved flying them in the old X-Wing vs TIE Fighter PC sims. And I think the Gamecube Factor 5 Rogue Squadron games had B-Wings flyable? Idk. Cool ship. Way better bomber than the Y-Wing.
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I think my favorite thing about of Rogue One was seeing the rebel ships doing what you'd expect them to do, lol. Lots of Y-wings in this one!
 
Comfort Jones said:
leads into a family friendly adventure film i watched as a child.
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I don't really disagree with you
 
I think it's a shame how much people dismiss Kylo Ren as just an "emo". In a day and age where we get so many shallow "I want power" or "I want revenge" villains honestly I found it kinda refreshing to have a really conflicted and fucked up villain. Dude's straight up crazy and I'm really interested to see where his character goes in the future films but idunno that's just me.

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theCalamity said:
M8sPDBO.jpg
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Yeah even with that the movie is still infinitely more upbeat and family friendly than Rogue One. Are you seriously trying to argue otherwise right now? Have we lost the plot that hard?
Just now saw your follow up lol

2nd edit- For the record I'm not really mad about a Star Wars spin off trying to go darker, it's the way this film goes about it and how it tries to give an already fine and emotional film some kind of...I'm not sure if I want to say added depth but clearly this film is supposed to somehow enhance those events right? Like I get so little backstory on these characters but I'm supposed to feel for their plight but honestly the movie's general structure is so predictable it just felt like watching the inevitable. I don't think I could describe a lot of these characters very well beyond a few quirks and some thing they do. Kassien and Jynn have all the charisma of a brick. Star Wars.

If they want to explore a dark Star Wars, they really need to get around to doing Knights of the Old Republic. They can get away from being tied to any of the other films and really explore whatever they want to.
 
Bolivar687 said:
The writing wasn't memorable and the acting really took the film down. It's like how the prequels were bad acting in the time of Epics, this is bad acting in the age of Marvel camp.
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Bullshit. The acting in this film was top notch. Whether or not you think the writing or characterisation was bad is a completely separate issue. On the whole, the standard of pure acting in Rogue One was probably better than in any other Star Wars movie.
 
Bolivar687 said:
The fact that none of the characters have an American accent completely undermines Disney's credibility. Star Wars is arguably the most iconic work in Americana and George Lucas intentionally created it to serve as an authentically American mythology. The Empire's British accents deliberately contrasted with the Rebellion to retell the American Revolution against the frame of science fiction, a genuinely American genre. I love the diversity of the cast, that would otherwise reinforce the story's ethos but it confirms that Disney fundamentally does not understand what these stories are about, after The Force Awakens already suggested that this might be the case.
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This is beyond inane.
 
Learning so much from the art book. Mon Mothma is #1 on the empires most wanted list. She was the first senator to publicly speak out against palpatine. She fled coruscant after her remarks. Thus the Alliance to Restore the Republic was started.
 
RSTEIN said:
Learning so much from the art book. Mon Mothma is #1 on the empires most wanted list. She was the first senator to publicly speak out against palpatine. She fled coruscant after her remarks. Thus the Alliance to Restore the Republic was started.
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That's interesting. Maybe that's why she seems to have visibly aged about twenty years in three.

Any other juicy tidbits?
 
I dropped off from Redlettermedia when they started banging on about 'Disney' forcing diversity into TFA to please SJW's. I suddenly realized they were those kind of guys. Takes the fun out of their act pretty quickly. Their entire attitude during that thing was basically that 'Disney' went overboard with casting non-white/non-male leads, with the nasty undertone that they did it for publicity rather than cast proper actors. So yeah they can fuck right off. And not because they didn't like a movie I liked - I honestly don't care about any of that.

Bobby Roberts said:
That treehouse barbecue on Endor is serving dead Stormtrooper, though. 100%.

Dead Stormtrooper and whatever that roadkill Chewie was trying to grub on that got em all caught up in the first place.
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That reminds me: one of the very, very few Star Wars comics I've read was the prequel to Force Awakens with Poe's parents (it wasn't really any good honestly). It started during the celebration on Endor at the end of Jedi, and one of the rebels said something to the effect of 'I have no idea what kind of meat I'm eating here, but it's pretty good actually'.

I figured that was the writer having fun with the idea that the Ewoks turned the rebels into cannibals.
 
SpaceWolf said:
That's interesting. Maybe that's why she seems to have visibly aged about twenty years in three.

Any other juicy tidbits?
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Yes many. I could go on and on. Lyra and Galen met on an expedition searching for kyber chrystal. She was his field guide. She believes in the force and that's why she wears a red sash, it's the colour of the church of the force.
 
Oh another cool tidbit. Notice that Vader's castle and the Jedi temple on jeddah look similar? Vader's is black, the Jedi temple is white/brown.

Underneath Vader's castle is an ancient cave with strong dark side energy. He goes there to meditate.
 
GhaleonEB said:
That's pretty consistent with how Vader is in the rest of the OT. When there's something critical the Empire is after, Vader goes straight for it - in this case, trying to get the plans. Vader was there to try and stop them escaping, he wasn't going to delegate that to some troopers. In ANH, they had the ship captured, and the rebels were entrenched, so he let the storm troopers do the dirty work. No need to go in, since they had the ship.

In Empire, the moment the Hoth base is breached Vader is marching at the vanguard straight through it, after Han and company, similar to RO (but with less on screen murder). Later on Bespin as well, casually taking shots from Han rather than having troopers arrest him first.
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I can see that. I suppose if the ending of RotJ had been set up slightly differently, with Luke having a team of rebel troops with him and Vader cornering him, Vader going through Luke's troops like that wouldn't have seemed weird to me. It's just that in the OT we never see him move like that, but you're right that he never really needed to.
 
Bucket Mouse said:
Bullshit. The acting in this film was top notch. Whether or not you think the writing or characterisation was bad is a completely separate issue. On the whole, the standard of pure acting in Rogue One was probably better than in any other Star Wars movie.
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I don't think I'd call it top notch, but it probably had the fewest clunkers, largely due to it having more conventionally written dialogue than the mainline entries. Though Jyn and Cassian's big speeches came perilously close to that "I don't know where this coming from and don't really know what to do with it" feeling in the performances. I personally don't think Jones was particularly good or interesting but she didn't sound nearly as lost as Portman, of course.
 
How did c3po and r2 get on Leia's ship, weren't they left behind in the Yavin hanger?

For that matter, why/how was Leia even in a ship inside Raddish (sp?) rebel armada? Organa said he had to go home to talk to her, and Raddish was already mobilized at that point
 
Also wasnt it kiiiiind of the Rebel Alliances fault everyone in RO ship dies? The fleet showing up is the reason the Empire closes the shield gate in the first place, trapping them inside and forcing them to use the radio transmitter - in which now they NEES the RA there. When the fight first broke out, the Empire wasn't closing the gate they were just deploying ground security.
 
John Harker said:
Also wasnt it kiiiiind of the Rebel Alliances fault everyone in RO ship dies? The fleet showing up is the reason the Empire closes the shield gate in the first place, trapping them inside and forcing them to use the radio transmitter - in which now they NEES the RA there. When the fight first broke out, the Empire wasn't closing the gate they were just deploying ground security.
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I know you can't assume Imperial competence, but it is hard to imagine shuttles being allowed to leave after there's an unauthorized access to the data archives in the midst of a rebel assault. They might have been able to get out of the gate but the Star Destroyers would have tractored them immediately. It also would have been pretty hard for them to get the tape back to the shuttle absent rebel air support.

John Harker said:
How did c3po and r2 get on Leia's ship, weren't they left behind in the Yavin hanger?

For that matter, why/how was Leia even in a ship inside Raddish (sp?) rebel armada? Organa said he had to go home to talk to her, and Raddish was already mobilized at that point
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There's a pretty big gap here between our seeing the base at Yavin and the fleet leaving. I mean, when we last saw it it looked like nobody else was coming to help. Plenty of time for Leia to pick up her protocol droid and his little friend and meet up with the fleet. I also don't know if Leia was supposed to be back home on Alderaan or if she was just not in the room at the time, but even if she was at home it's possible Bail took his ship to Alderaan and Leia immediately got on and came to Yavin or that Bail called ahead and she left shortly after that conversation. As for why, I think the reason given in ANH is pretty plausible - she's exactly who you want to hand the plans off to for transport because she can rely on diplomatic immunity or whatever, and the ship was hidden inside the Nebulon B so that she couldn't be identified unless she had to run.

Edit: Actually if I'm just inventing new story elements I'd say that Leia was on her way to a genuine diplomatic mission and met up with the fleet to pick up the plans.
 
Gotchaye said:
I know you can't assume Imperial competence, but it is hard to imagine shuttles being allowed to leave after there's an unauthorized access to the data archives in the midst of a rebel assault. They might have been able to get out of the gate but the Star Destroyers would have tractored them immediately. It also would have been pretty hard for them to get the tape back to the shuttle absent rebel air support.
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They weren't planning on the RA showing up... so what exactly was there plan then? Haha, something just felt a little off to me about those elements
 
Bucket Mouse said:
Bullshit. The acting in this film was top notch. Whether or not you think the writing or characterisation was bad is a completely separate issue. On the whole, the standard of pure acting in Rogue One was probably better than in any other Star Wars movie.
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Can't agree with that just on the basis of Jones' performance. I don't blame her for it- she's a good actress. But the writing did her no favors and I don't think Edwards knows how to work particularly well with actors. She seemed lost the entire movie. I felt the same about Diego Luna's performance too.
 
Diego Luna's monologue about being part of the war since he was six years old was killer.

I thought all the actors in this film were great, except for Jones who was a little shaky.
 
CrichtonKicks said:
Can't agree with that just on the basis of Jones' performance. I don't blame her for it- she's a good actress. But the writing did her no favors and I don't think Edwards knows how to work particularly well with actors. She seemed lost the entire movie. I felt the same about Diego Luna's performance too.
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Gareth Edwards has the same directing qualities as George Lucas.
EDIT: OK, maybe not as bad, but it reminds me of him.
 
John Harker said:
They weren't planning on the RA showing up... so what exactly was there plan then? Haha, something just felt a little off to me about those elements
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They were planning on escaping in the cargo shuttle they came with and by all intents that's what was going to happen in the film until the end got restructured. You can see it in the trailers that they made it back down to the beach and presumably were fighting their way back to Bodhi and the ship. Personally I'm glad they excised all that stuff and we got the ending we did. It was straight up a suicide mission with little to no chance of success and everyone knew it going in but they had to do something so fuck it.

They were taking things a quarter parsec at a time.
 
John Harker said:
Also wasnt it kiiiiind of the Rebel Alliances fault everyone in RO ship dies? The fleet showing up is the reason the Empire closes the shield gate in the first place, trapping them inside and forcing them to use the radio transmitter - in which now they NEES the RA there. When the fight first broke out, the Empire wasn't closing the gate they were just deploying ground security.
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It was an entire base, satellite base and 2 Star Destroyers against under 40 Rebels.
They wouldn't have made it out.
 
Gotchaye said:
l
There's a pretty big gap here between our seeing the base at Yavin and the fleet leaving. I mean, when we last saw it it looked like nobody else was coming to help. Plenty of time for Leia to pick up her protocol droid and his little friend and meet up with the fleet. I also don't know if Leia was supposed to be back home on Alderaan or if she was just not in the room at the time, but even if she was at home it's possible Bail took his ship to Alderaan and Leia immediately got on and came to Yavin or that Bail called ahead and she left shortly after that conversation. As for why, I think the reason given in ANH is pretty plausible - she's exactly who you want to hand the plans off to for transport because she can rely on diplomatic immunity or whatever, and the ship was hidden inside the Nebulon B so that she couldn't be identified unless she had to run.

Edit: Actually if I'm just inventing new story elements I'd say that Leia was on her way to a genuine diplomatic mission and met up with the fleet to pick up the plans.
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Sounds like another prequel in 10 years!
 
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