Final Fantasy XV also had multiple terrible showings, but critically it turned out more than alright. As someone who disliked the E3 demos of FFXV, I still ended up enjoying the final product very much.
Scalebound cancelled [Platinum Games and Kamiya have commented]
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Final Fantasy XV also had multiple terrible showings, but critically it turned out more than alright. As someone who disliked the E3 demos of FFXV, I still ended up enjoying the final product very much.
PingPongvonLaserstein
Member
Strictly personally, it has a lot less to do with it being a Platinum project and a lot more to do with it being a Kamiya project specifically.
At the same time, engine issues don't necessarily have to be about frame rate either.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
Just for reference, since there was talk about other Platinum games' sales and their Nintendo partnerships, W101 and Bayonetta 2 respectively shipped 104k and 157k in North America as of March 2015.
Bayonetta 2 did 60k in Japan and another 60k in France by the end of 2014.
So before the various other European countries and Australia that's at least 280k units at least. Counting the later reprint, digital sales, and those other countries, it's probably about 300k at the lowest.
All things considered, for a niche game on the Wii U, that doesn't seem terrible to me.
For comparison, here's Xenoblade Chronicles X:
Japan: 118k by end of 2015
NA: 200k in December 2015
Europe: ~12k (UK), 40k (France) in December 2015
Total: This is about 370, so factoring in the other European countries and digital probably about 400k at the lowest?
Bayonetta 2 did 60k in Japan and another 60k in France by the end of 2014.
So before the various other European countries and Australia that's at least 280k units at least. Counting the later reprint, digital sales, and those other countries, it's probably about 300k at the lowest.
All things considered, for a niche game on the Wii U, that doesn't seem terrible to me.
For comparison, here's Xenoblade Chronicles X:
Japan: 118k by end of 2015
NA: 200k in December 2015
Europe: ~12k (UK), 40k (France) in December 2015
Total: This is about 370, so factoring in the other European countries and digital probably about 400k at the lowest?
RareFantasy64
Member
Fair enough and I'm not trying to belittle the game. I just thought last time it was shown, it really left a lukewarm impression to the public but maybe I didn't read enough impressions towards the game to get a fair understanding of how it was looking
Holy shit. Haha
I think the counter point to this though, is why is it a "niche game on the Wii U" in the first place?
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/20100514_hosoku_e_final.pdf#page=5
Bayonetta 1 shipped 1.35 million worldwide on PS3 and 360. Shouldn't that be used as an indicator of the potential appeal of the franchise? How is that niche?
Maybe the project gradually got too bit the moment the development kicked in? One limitation faced by PG there was MS allegedly got involved over the change of the vision of the game. Obviously PG can't do anything about it since MS pays the bills.
And senior members taking a month off to take stress off is the first time we've heard it happen at PG as far as I can remember. So it's more about the specific project having some really serious trouble than the management of PG as a whole.
Wow, seems like Nintendo lost money on Xenoblade X then?
This makes sense. All that shit about Nadella // Spencer fulling believe in the power of Xbox brand wasn't for the system//gamers but so they can have a storefront. I mean, I can't blame them for chasing the dream. I won't be partaking in it though.
Can the Switch even run this game? I'd get the Switch to play Scale Bound...and Bayo 3.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
Do we know if that is shipped or sold-through. I think I remember hearing that Bayonetta was overshipped and it had some big price drops during its first year. I wonder partly if Wonderful 101 was a similar case.
I think it's been said that XenoX's budget wasn't actually as much as people would expect.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
You work with them and find some compromises, get some onsite support from in-house developers before it gets to this situation and you fucking get the game shipped.
I feel like if this were Sony, they would've had ICE team or SSM show up and try and assist if it meant something to them.
MS just threw their hands in the air and comes out looking like complete assholes.
Look at what Sony and Guerilla Games are doing for Kojima... absolutely none of that was necessary, but they did it. The Last Guardian was on a death bed for a decade... they shipped it. I've heard tale of Sony enlisting SSM when some indie developers needed a hand as well. Why can't MS do the same?
Yeah still not out. They have released multiple videos of their progress though, and did push it back to add platform levels. What I saw worked for me since I was mostly just in it for the boss fights anyway, but supposedly there was a lot of criticism surrounding the platform levels that were shown. So...I'm assuming this delay is mostly in relation to that.
I think it was 1.5 million ish.
This is number is completely from my memory/ass so someone please correct me if I am wrong.
Also worth noting that XCX is an open world game with a longer development time. So by estimates Bayonetta 2 would probably have gotten more for the investment.
EDIT: Wait is that number supposed to be W101 and Bayonetta 2 combined?
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Sony just canceled a big game and closed two competent studios this generation. Let's not be phony about the publishing business for one second. It's risky and sometimes decisions are made.
Allegedly in the first place.
But it is up to PG to have systems in place to manage their own employees and offer assistance and try to prevent burnouts.
If my company sings a contract and we overextended ourselves which resulted in multiple stress leaves, the onus and penalty would be on us.
Not saying MS is the good guy here, but don't sign off on what cannot be delivered
Didn't PG say MS was helping them with the technical side though?
Which big game did they just cancel? And two competent studios had multiple opportunity to make games that sell.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Because Dragons.
It's shipped. I just said that! But we do know that the sell-through in Japan alone was about 300k - 212k on PS3 and 88k on 360. So I would imagine the sell-through worldwide in probably closer to 1 million, even if it was overshipped elsewhere.
Going from 300k to 60k is a pretty poor showing. I think it's hard to defend. Bayonetta 2 sold less on WiiU than Bayonetta did on the 360 in Japan!
Yeah, but the big difference is here is this gen, Sony doesn't cancel any big games that they have announced/revealed to the public. There are a ton of games that are in production and get canceled behind closed doors for every publisher. Also, the studios didn't produce results, so they were closed. Nature of the business. In the case of Evolution, Sony hired some of them after the closure to complete a game that was in mid-production and revealed to the audience already.
For real. Looking back and thinking about that Greatest Xbox line up ad MS put out. smh.
Fable Legends already canceled, We're still waiting on the status or re-reveal of Crackdown 3. And I mean, Sea of Thieves has to be safe, right? Shit, It's like MS, wtf you doin?
mrmickfran
Member
That moment when I realized why Kamiya's been so quiet on Twitter recently.
:/
:/
Was that the SSM game?
How many millions of dollars do you think MS invested in this? I doubt they wanted to lose the money and take the inevitable PR hit if the game was salvageable
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
The one not announced and never hyped up yes.
I don't give a shit. I'd rather they not have revealed the game at all honestly unless they were 100% committed to releasing it. You're hyping this game up repeatedly over the course of a few years? You better do everything possible to get the game made. I don't care if you have to hire an extra set of developers to come in and help, finish the game you promised people you'd make. If this was a one off thing I'd let it go. But it's not. Not to mention all this talk about the shitty tactic MS pulled about holding pay back and setting ridiculous milestones. Sorry, I'm not going to empathize with your business decision if you pull crap like that.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Kinda surprised by this news, but not shocked. Microsoft really are a pain in the ass to deal with in publishing situations like this.
You rarely hear about it for obvious reasons, but it happens pretty commonly in any company. Although, I guess it is not often the senior members who end up taking time off even if they should.
You rarely hear about it for obvious reasons, but it happens pretty commonly in any company. Although, I guess it is not often the senior members who end up taking time off even if they should.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
What if the game was really bad and after all this time there was no guarantee that it was going to get better even if they gave them another year? I'm having a hard time understanding why people are so upset after the reception the presentation got at E3.
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
Why is it stupid to cancel a game they didn't expect to make money back on and had continually shown poorly?
Or did you mean they other Bs? Cause some of that was really lame I agree then.
MiamiWesker
Member
Wow what the hell happened here. W101 is amazing. It only got a high 70. Wow reviewers really are sensitive to any control scheme that is different.
Omega Kirby
Member
Ok, real talk.
Is Nier doing well needed for Platinum to not go the way of the Dodo? And how many sales would that be if yes. I mean was the first Nier a good seller?
Is Nier doing well needed for Platinum to not go the way of the Dodo? And how many sales would that be if yes. I mean was the first Nier a good seller?
Head.spawn
Junior Member
We know they helped to an extent, but If the rumors are accurate, the main issue that was happening here was getting good performance on this title and apparently Platinum Games wanted to reign in the scope to make it doable and MS didn't want to compromise.
If you want to see the game shipped, either compromise or send in the troops to make it happen.
That's just the way I see it. It probably didn't help that they then had to do a PC version and make it Scorpio compatible to top it off which weren't a thing when the game was announced.
Not phony at all, check the post history as I'm sure I've given grief for that shit as well.
But in this case, I don't see anyone even hinting that this game was grossly over budget or anything like that. It's a different situation and in all honesty MS needs more new IP, when you have slim picken's it's worth the risk.
I'm positive Nier is gonna return it's budget. It's still pretty niche though.
It's definitely not gonna support a 100 person dev team for a bit
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Ffxv went thru development hell for years had Terrible showing after terrible showing. End game 83 meta turned out alright. Last guardian ran like utter crap on ps3, development Probably halted, switches to ps4, previews were not very positive, still comes out with issues but goty for many many ppl. Ppl keep bringing up the e3 showings like multiple games sometimes games just don't show well, hell Mass effect is getting Luke warm reception. Nd if it was running like shit help em out. They had no problem pushing out that halo MCC tho.
I'm worried Nier won't do that well because it has niche game written all over it. I'm supporting it day 1 but it's hard to say how many gamers this will appeal to, only the most hardcore really.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
And here I was thinking, finally xbox one would have a rpg that makes all PS4 fans envy. Of course they have to can it.
Papacheeks
Banned
Th first Nier to my knwoledge did really poor like 500,000 or less poor. But had a very cult following of people who played it, and it eventually sold i guess decent by the time they stopped printing it.
But it was no swan song or a financially good investment.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I mean, Platinum don't own the games they made.
Bayonetta 2 was cancelled I think at one point? This was before it was announced though.
Obliterator
Member
It's going to take something much larger than Nier to keep their current staff size, unless that ends up being a shocking success story.
It's doubtful the canceling of Scalebound will outright close down the studio, but it will likely result in substantial staff layoffs
Doesn't this apply to the whole Xbox division?
Basilisco V.
Member
Even as a fan of PG, I always saw Scalebound like a bit.. rough? Anyway, it seemed a fairly original new IP, and its sad to cancel a proyect after 4 years of development, I hope PG will be able to land in their feet (I'll do my part buying NieR Automata).
Sounds like the problem was Microsoft.
Good....Businessmen are boring. He'll be back.
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