Just like Affleck's speech for batman's Oscar will be
Wonder Woman Is a Disjointed Disaster (Says DC Insider)
- Thread starter MrMatt555
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The first real effect: losing a director for The Flash because he wanted to make an edgier movie. :lol
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Ok..didn't see that coming lol.
lmao
man it would be great if by any chance Aquaman ended as the only good movie of this whole DC cinematic universe train wreck
Father_Brain
Banned
lol, I meant in terms of completed and released films, but fair point
Watch Assault on Arkham, and figure out why many of us hated Suicide Squad.
Critics aren't "everyone else," and the RT score doesn't even properly reflect what critics actually believe. Nerds/fanboys fighting on the internet using what critics say also don't really represent 'everyone'. Most people I know in real life that went to see Suicide Squad or BvS liked it. Quite a few didn't understand at all what the bad reviews were all about. Hell, even the more nerdy people I know in real life watch and like both film franchises and are excited for whatever comes next.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Defending DC movies is pretty silly, considering how badly they suck, but Marvel's movies are bland shit without any kind of real identity other than "quippy".
If you're not a fan of Marvel quippy-ness then you can blame Joss Whedon. Because the quips didn't go into overdrive until Avengers 1 in my opinion.
The people in your social circles (who, not surprising, will probably have similar likes and tastes to you) are not really representative of "everyone," either.
The first two Iron Man movies and Thor all leaned on comedy a lot. And Winter Soldier and Civil War are probably the least quippy of Marvel's movies.
I agree with this statement.
Also can we just give Suicide Squad a break? It was a below average music video smashup.
that I totally regret paying for.
Iron Man 1 and 2 are quippy but it fits the character and I quite honestly didn't think they were that bad on quips. Especially compared to Avengers 1 and 2.
A thoughtful, reflective post that offers nuanced criticism in regards to the creative output of two very different companies. Thank you.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Eh, the pre-Whedon movies were also pretty quippy, except maybe The Incredible Hulk.
The real problem is that Marvel has no clue how to make their characters feel like somewhat real people to induce something like sympathy for their plights or interest in their behavior. They write a thin veneer of plot that they lace with quips to make it palatable as an excuse for big setpiece action scenes.
Edit: SpaceWolf, Hollywood putting out bad, lowest common denominator movies is basically axiomatic. DC invested their fortunes in a man whose idea of artistic vision was a brand of "dark grittiness" that's been passe for the better part of two decades, while Marvel basically makes off-the-rack Hollywood schlock in which they substitute depth for the marketing hype of having an "epic, interconnected franchise", despite each individual movie having about as much creativity and thoughtfulness as a can of Pepsi.
Yeah, I couldn't give two shits about these movies and assume it WILL be bad, but there is no way anyone saw a final version of a movie this post heavy
BassForever
Member
I disagree with this purely because they've done a fantastic job with MCU Captain America. He feels the most relatable and "real" of the MCU characters.
Glass Rebel
Member
I know you're not talking about Famuyiwa because that's not what he said.
I'm a big fan of Ant-Man in that particular department, personally.
Unlike Suicide Squad, if Wonder Woman turns out bad, it will undoubtedly do poor at the box office because the movie will have stiff competition.
The problem with the Wonder Woman trailer I had was the slo-mo crap. Seems like there's too much of it which makes the action seem dull.
The problem with the Wonder Woman trailer I had was the slo-mo crap. Seems like there's too much of it which makes the action seem dull.
I just had a thought. I doubt it's an original thought, but it's something that occurred to me in this thread.
I don't think super hero movies can afford to push envelopes in story unless their franchise do so at the start. There's too much money at stake and it's wiser to do what works regardless of criticisms.
I don't think super hero movies can afford to push envelopes in story unless their franchise do so at the start. There's too much money at stake and it's wiser to do what works regardless of criticisms.
That's true of basically all art
Bobby Roberts
Banned
People like quips though. This thread is full of em, for example. People love the quip. One of Marvel's most beloved characters is basically Cap'n Quip 'n' Thwip, for example.
Quips are breezy. Light. People like their ridiculous sci-fi power-fantasies to be goofy and light, apparently. Not to say that's the only way a superhero story should be told, because of course not. You've got the dark moody shit. You've got the hopeful cornpone shit. Superhero stories can be told in a multitude of ways. Turtles. Supermen. Rocketeers. So on and so forth.
But Marvel Studios deciding to go with "smirk" as their overriding emotion (with a side-order of half-hearted angst to cut the tang) isn't necessarily a bad thing. And for a lot of people (who employ the art of quip quite a bit both at work and when they relax on social media) a "Quippy" superhero actually makes them more relatable.
ANYWAY: Gonna second Staccato here: I highly doubt the veracity of this report anyway, primarily because Collider Crew's track records as scoopers of any note is very poor, which they themselves have acknowledged a few times. I don't know why they keep indulging it. Or rather, I know why they keep indulging it, I just don't know why they haven't gotten any better at it since they know how it's going to end up playing out.
Quips are breezy. Light. People like their ridiculous sci-fi power-fantasies to be goofy and light, apparently. Not to say that's the only way a superhero story should be told, because of course not. You've got the dark moody shit. You've got the hopeful cornpone shit. Superhero stories can be told in a multitude of ways. Turtles. Supermen. Rocketeers. So on and so forth.
But Marvel Studios deciding to go with "smirk" as their overriding emotion (with a side-order of half-hearted angst to cut the tang) isn't necessarily a bad thing. And for a lot of people (who employ the art of quip quite a bit both at work and when they relax on social media) a "Quippy" superhero actually makes them more relatable.
ANYWAY: Gonna second Staccato here: I highly doubt the veracity of this report anyway, primarily because Collider Crew's track records as scoopers of any note is very poor, which they themselves have acknowledged a few times. I don't know why they keep indulging it. Or rather, I know why they keep indulging it, I just don't know why they haven't gotten any better at it since they know how it's going to end up playing out.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Well this is something I simply cannot agree with. Like their comic book counterparts I think these movies do a good job of grounding their heroes in very human situations or needs that connects us to them and let's us vicariously enjoy their superhero adventures.
Steve Rogers wants to live in a world where he is needed and doesn't want to lose his connection to his past. Scott Lang wants to be the hero his daughter already thinks he is. Peter Quill wants to do something with his life after being taken away from everything and everyone he ever loved, instead of just running away again.
These are simplified but when you bring these characters down to their core essence and their themes then you can easily see why the MCU films have broad appeal. There are a lot of people out there who can relate to them. The characters in Man of Steel and Batman V Superman by comparison are harder to relate to because they don't speak or act like people we might know. Not to say DC doesn't have interesting characters behind their stories, but their backgrounds or origins tend to be a bit less "human" and more "hero."
If what you said had merit than Civil War would have been a huge dud of a movie because that is a superhero movie that is almost entirely character driven.
broncobuster
Banned
Iron Man 1 is even-keeled with Tony mostly being the source of humor. It's why that relationship with Rhodey works so damn well in it. Whedon's take on the characters diluted who they are, their personalities, and it got really bad in AoU. Civil War was plenty jokey but it kept the characters acting like people and it's great, except for Buckey who has no personality. I'm so glad Black Panther wasn't introduced in a Whedon movie.
Thanos will be a simp then.
Well... Hm... This is certainly going some places huh?
Not surprised to hear Wonder Woman is a mess, but I'm still disappointed :/
He's not but go ahead and peddle this nonsense....
This is all true. They maybe changed the story a bit that weaves the set pieces but how much can you really change when you've set so many things in motion.
He's been involved in every DCEU film so far either as a director or producer. He basically was the keymaster of the DCEU until Geoff Johns stepped in
BronsonLee
Member
I mean the likelihood of that is high
Glass Rebel
Member
I mean I'd agree with this if we didn't just have a Marvel movie last year that was all about their plights and their behaviour and had people argue about it for months.
What I'm trying to say is, I don't agree at all.
His involvement in SS was minimal and I don't even know what his contribution is to WW. Hollywood hands producer credits like candy, means nothing.
I can't remember exactly what Captain America story it was (and its making me sad)
But there was part at the end where Cap in his military uniform attended a veteran banquet, I believe some of those veterans are the same ones he served with. The last panel in the comic is of him sitting in an empty banquet hall after the party was over, looking at a mural of all his old war buddies. There was inner monologue throughout that whole part about war, being left behind, being a man out of his time and moving forward.
That hits me hard.
I think Marvel have done an excellent job portraying that aspect of Captain America in his appearances. So I don't know how people can't say they don't feel sympathy for something like that.
But there was part at the end where Cap in his military uniform attended a veteran banquet, I believe some of those veterans are the same ones he served with. The last panel in the comic is of him sitting in an empty banquet hall after the party was over, looking at a mural of all his old war buddies. There was inner monologue throughout that whole part about war, being left behind, being a man out of his time and moving forward.
That hits me hard.
I think Marvel have done an excellent job portraying that aspect of Captain America in his appearances. So I don't know how people can't say they don't feel sympathy for something like that.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
They did this for Cap's arc in Age of Ultron and i loved it. The idea most people had in their head of Captain America (if they didn't read comics of course) I'm sure was very different from what they saw when these movies started being made. I know a lot of friends who didn't know he was more than just an America-loving boyscout. He's more complex than that and the success of the franchise proves that people see a character worth connecting to and rooting for in them.
I don't know that he's said anything about it other than the stock creative differences statement. The edgy comment is what THR reported.
Producer credits aren't nothing, and neither is a "story by" credit, which Snyder also has on WW.
This gif
probably has more emotion and character behind it than anything I've seen from the DCEU heroes and is also why I feel the idea that Marvel can't make relatable characters is pretty strongly false. Cap feels so incredibly human, especially in his solo movies. I don't really want or need DC's movies to follow the Marvel formula exactly (though it wouldn't hurt, a little bit) but I just want the DC characters to have some emotion behind them and give me a reason to root for them. Batman vs Superman was basically "two assholes fight, the movie"
probably has more emotion and character behind it than anything I've seen from the DCEU heroes and is also why I feel the idea that Marvel can't make relatable characters is pretty strongly false. Cap feels so incredibly human, especially in his solo movies. I don't really want or need DC's movies to follow the Marvel formula exactly (though it wouldn't hurt, a little bit) but I just want the DC characters to have some emotion behind them and give me a reason to root for them. Batman vs Superman was basically "two assholes fight, the movie"
It's incredible to me that Chris Evans went from portraying this guy
to this guy
It's a huge transformation and I find it hard to see anyone else in the role now.
also I just want to post a naked gif of Evans
Bobby Roberts
Banned
What I loved most about Civil War was that it caused people to go back to the first Captain America and re-evaluate it.
Still my favorite of the MCU.
Still my favorite of the MCU.
You know you can get producer credit if you introduce a director to a financier? It's that loose... it is definitely meaningless because it can be earned in a lot of ways. It tells us nothing about his involvement. The same movie talk channel that sparked this thread has covered this concept about producers and how they earn credit on a film. And it's just that ambiguous.
The first half of Batman Begins was really good about that. DC hasn't replicated that yet.This gif
probably has more emotion and character behind it than anything I've seen from the DCEU heroes and is also why I feel the idea that Marvel can't make relatable characters is pretty strongly false. Cap feels so incredibly human, especially in his solo movies. I don't really want or need DC's movies to follow the Marvel formula exactly (though it wouldn't hurt, a little bit) but I just want the DC characters to have some emotion behind them and give me a reason to root for them. Batman vs Superman was basically "two assholes fight, the movie"
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Hoping for the best with this movie, but after BvS and SS my expectations are very low.
This is an interesting way to look at things.
BvS is a grueling unwatchable mess, and 100% deserved the score it got. The Marvel movies may not be cinematic masterpieces, but at least they don't sap the life out of you in the most non-entertaining manner possible.
This isn't a DC vs Marvel narrative, at least not for most. I have never read a comic book in my life, and honestly grew up more familiar with he DC universe than Marvel. That said, DC's recent film outings have been utter shit. I hope they pull themselves together, because there's a lot of fun material to work with.
This is an interesting way to look at things.
BvS is a grueling unwatchable mess, and 100% deserved the score it got. The Marvel movies may not be cinematic masterpieces, but at least they don't sap the life out of you in the most non-entertaining manner possible.
This isn't a DC vs Marvel narrative, at least not for most. I have never read a comic book in my life, and honestly grew up more familiar with he DC universe than Marvel. That said, DC's recent film outings have been utter shit. I hope they pull themselves together, because there's a lot of fun material to work with.
The third act holds it back a bit in my opinion, but god damn I love the first Cap movie anyways and I'll defend the shit out of it. All three of Cap's movies are in my Top 5 for the MCU
I was being sarcastic. Granted reading back on my post that doesn't necessarily come across.
Oh God Why
Banned
It seems to me that all someone needs to do too become a DC "insider" with any perceived merit is to do the following:
1. Say that you know someone that is close to the film or that you are close to the film production.
2. Say something along the lines of "my source has told me that the film is a mess, structurally disjointed, hacked together. Or you can say that the film is a mess, etc.
3. Have some social media presence.
4. DO NOT MENTION ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT A DC MOVIE'S STATE!!! IF YOU DO THIS, YOU WON'T BE TAKEN AS SERIOUSLY BY THE PUBLIC!!!
5. Boom. Insider status.
1. Say that you know someone that is close to the film or that you are close to the film production.
2. Say something along the lines of "my source has told me that the film is a mess, structurally disjointed, hacked together. Or you can say that the film is a mess, etc.
3. Have some social media presence.
4. DO NOT MENTION ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT A DC MOVIE'S STATE!!! IF YOU DO THIS, YOU WON'T BE TAKEN AS SERIOUSLY BY THE PUBLIC!!!
5. Boom. Insider status.
I actually liked the third act of Civil War. It was much smaller in scale and I think going into it people were expecting Iron Man, Captain America and Bucky against the rest of the super soldiers
well except the trailers spoiled that Iron Man was fighting Bucky and Captain America.
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