SolidusDave
Member
Those are all confirmed dead though. And I like to imagine that Rost, unbound from anything and being a deathseeker, did unspeakable things to them already. Law abiding citizen style.
Horizon Zero Dawn SPOILERS Thread
- Thread starter vivekTO
- Start date
Those are all confirmed dead though. And I like to imagine that Rost, unbound from anything and being a deathseeker, did unspeakable things to them already. Law abiding citizen style.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
Yes yes, I'm aware. That's why I want Rost DLC, so I can be there when and where it happened
I'll take that too.
Also, quick question: when Aloy finds Elizabeth at the end (what a powerful scene I must say!), was it implied her body was preserved in that suit or did it just show a holograph of her face and not was actually inside?
bigboss370
Member
10/10 game
Aaronology
Member
I can't imagine it preserved her body. That seemed very much a hologram.
Gonna say hologram. You see her mummified hand where her suit is breached.
mitchman
Gold Member
The body is preserved pretty much perfectly in a vacuum as no bacteria is given the opportunity to break down her body, it if the suit had a vacuum inside (which is possible if she or the suit triggered it), it could be her preserved body.
Finally finished it last night, and I'm just kinda reading through the thread right now. Don't have much to say other than bravo, Guerrilla. Really enjoyed this game, even though sometimes I found the traversal a bit jarring after Breath of the Wild. It kinda made the game repetitive as a result; get new mission, follow marker to mission, rinse and repeat. Hope they address that for the next one. However, it had an excellent story, really looking forward to what they do with the sequel.
Also, I can't believe nobody's said this yet, but fuck Ted Faro.
Also, I can't believe nobody's said this yet, but fuck Ted Faro.
I'm guessing you're joking but a quick search of any of the OT threads on Horizon should reveal a very obvious trend saying otherwise. People seem to be hating Ted Faro as much as people hate Griffith.
Version 3.0
Member
Who's Griffith?
LastMinuteHero
Member
Berserk character
Aaronology
Member
I absolutely hate Faro as much as Griffith. Perhaps a smidge more, as Faro's villainy is more grounded and hits close to home. The world will never see someone with Griffith's capabilities, but imagining a Ted Faro existing half a century from now is depressingly easy.
Lokimaru
Member
Time to catch up with this thread, finally finished the game. Still a lot of story to process and stuff to find, I only really wrapped up the Vantage Points because of the solid storytelling and the nice glimpses they offer into how the world used to look.
I really liked how the story developed ever after visiting the Faro facility. Was motivated to keep pushing on. I was sorta expecting to stumble upon more optional bunkers aside from the first bunker you fall into and the armory. But I guess the Cauldrons functioned more as the optional dungeons. The bandit camps felt a little out of place, felt a bit ripped from Witcher 3 but without the context or background. The game is already top-tier, but if they want to take it to eleven, there's still room for improvement with regards to the in-game economy, towns, villages.. I don't want to constantly compare to the Witcher, but they really set the bar with regards to how the civilized parts of their world intertwine with the wilderness, how monsters and bandits are sometimes part of daily life, sometimes not. The optional missions were more hit then miss for me mostly, though. I think they might do more in the vein of Redmaw in a next game or DLC.
Rost's background seemed a bit.. Vague? By ignoring tribal laws but also going on an heroic quest to get revenge for the tribe, he put the Matriarchs in a tough spot so I get that part of the deal was keeping his mouth shut about his special treatment, but I don't see why Teerza wasn't willing to tell Aloy this right after he died. There wasn't really any pay-off by the time you get to know his story and his passing feels like such a long time ago. I did like the fact that you can visit his grave at various points in the game and Aloy every time speaks about the most recent developments. I visited the grave, for example, right before I headed towards the Bitter Climb and GAIA's facilities.
For sequels, Guerilla has a lot of options. The fate of those outer space missions is one (though they state it failed), there's mention of mining operations on the moon, the after-credits scene with Sylens.. Plenty to go with. I wouldn't mind Aloy heading towards the pacific ocean - sailing and surfing and swimming through tropical atolls, all the marine wildlife that could be inspiration for new robots (whales! doplphins! turtles! Aloy getting her Moana groove on! - I could see them tackle it. But there's so many interesting options to go from here. Tribes who ride machines or use them for construction, transport or warfare, etc. Oseram didn't interest me that much (bulky pyro-Vikings), but the Banuk were definitely interesting. More lush forest, jungles, mountains and lakes I hope, less desert, was my least favourite region of the game.
My thoughts on Rost was that he made himself an Outcast so he wouldn't have to talk about all the things he'seen and done thereby keeping the tribe "pure".
Miniature Kaiju
Member
Ted Faro is pretty much a Musk/Zuckerberg mashup. Technological acumen and business drive married to juvenile greed and irresponsible negligence.
I despised Ted Faro. Unbelievably so. The fact that his actions and crimes were nearly a thousand years removed from current history made the inability to punish him directly for his countless mistakes quite frustrating. Hearing Sylens mention that cryostasis existed gave me hope the bastard was alive just so I could finish what the machines could not.
I adored this game. It's not as "big" a world as I first thought, but that's what made the final stand come together so well. Seeing all the tribes unite, seeing prior sidequest characters show up to offer support, seeing it all culminate in Aloy's influence saving the day, beyond just her own actions.
And, yes, finding her mother's body at the end was... perfect. A quiet denouement to the bombast we had just seen.
The sequel can't get here soon enough. I'm not ready to say goodbye to this world yet.
What is the ball near the Banuk camp wich prevents machines attacking people? A module subordinate to GAIA or just a satellite? It is part of MINERVA or it is MINERVA itself? IIRC, when you do an overdrive on a Broadhead, he send a transmission to MINERVA but without response.
Maybe it is there cause the detonation of GAIA ? It's pretty far from GAIA Prime.
Maybe it is there cause the detonation of GAIA ? It's pretty far from GAIA Prime.
Either something that got hurled there when Gaia committed seppuku or a satellite.
That or there are people on the moon (from the mining colonies there) and they tried something
hamauzu kaito
Member
Finally finished the game. The ending kind of caught me by suprise; I had no idea I was so close. I hated the final battles because they were tough for me (I didn't prepare resources) and the mechanics for shooting the Oseram gun were a bit weird. Despite this the fight for survival was thrilling no matter how many times I died.
The ending scenes were lukewarm for me (not sexy Varl though
) until Aloy went to Elisabet's resting place. That's when I kind of choked up.
I WATCHED THE ENTIRE ENDING CREDITS. I was so afraid I would accidentally skip and after credits scene I just watched through. It took forever! However I did enjoy listening to the music, especially the Meridian worshipers chorus.
I did not expect the end of credits scene at all. I haven't read much of the data logs so maybe that's why it seemed so out of place to me. Reading some of the previous comments about the moon and such are throwing me off majorly. I will have to read through on the next boot. I plan to platinum as I can't imagine not playing this game. It's provided me hours of pure fun and I am grateful to GG for it!
The ending scenes were lukewarm for me (not sexy Varl though
) until Aloy went to Elisabet's resting place. That's when I kind of choked up. I WATCHED THE ENTIRE ENDING CREDITS. I was so afraid I would accidentally skip and after credits scene I just watched through. It took forever! However I did enjoy listening to the music, especially the Meridian worshipers chorus.
I did not expect the end of credits scene at all. I haven't read much of the data logs so maybe that's why it seemed so out of place to me. Reading some of the previous comments about the moon and such are throwing me off majorly. I will have to read through on the next boot. I plan to platinum as I can't imagine not playing this game. It's provided me hours of pure fun and I am grateful to GG for it!
OH MAN I don't know if it's been said before, but Helis' demise in this game is SO good. I don't know if all options are equally strong, but in any case, the "Heart" option is certainly one of the most bad-ass villain bitchslaps I've ever witnessed in a game.
The was Aloy lectures him, and he goes: "Wait, you pity me?" And she just repiles: "Turn your face to the sun." And then he actually goes on and does it before she kills him. This vile dude, just reduced to a child who doesn't know what he's playing with. So good....
The was Aloy lectures him, and he goes: "Wait, you pity me?" And she just repiles: "Turn your face to the sun." And then he actually goes on and does it before she kills him. This vile dude, just reduced to a child who doesn't know what he's playing with. So good....
CEJames
Member
I thought the quick jab with the spear was a little weak. I wanted her to slice the head off or something. Twirl the spear in the air once and then completely gut him like a fish....
Yo you missed out on the "fist" option. Good God I was awestruck. Too good.
Chuckie
Member
I did, too.
One thing that always annoys me in games is when I kill trillions of people without a second thought but when I get to that world's Hitler, I'm picking the "bad" option if I kill them? Fuck that shit.
Killed that fucker without hesitation.
Chuckie
Member
Word. I hated that punk. Fucker killed Rost. I didn't pity him at all!
If there had been an option to slowly gut him and blind him so he couldn't see the sun I'd probably chosen that
I'm going to HAVE to play the game and choose some different options.
Watching Rost's goodbye and seeing some of the other options is heartbreaking.
And Aloy's responses to Helis really alter the scene too.
SolidusDave
Member
Probably the only time in the game where it felt suitable to me to use the violence/fist option.
I used reason/brain the most.
Was very satisfying but still in line with her character.
No quick death for you!
I used reason/brain the most.
Was very satisfying but still in line with her character.
No quick death for you!
I've just seen the first trailer from E3 2015, here's the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkg5UVTsKCE
Basically, almost everything was the same back then, only Rost was a little bit different.
The only thing that doesn't match is the part in the city that never appeared in the final release.
Were the Old Ones meant to disappeared by some sort of global blackout, same as Revolution tv series?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkg5UVTsKCE
Basically, almost everything was the same back then, only Rost was a little bit different.
The only thing that doesn't match is the part in the city that never appeared in the final release.
Were the Old Ones meant to disappeared by some sort of global blackout, same as Revolution tv series?
MegaSackman
Member
Watch the one from E3 2016, there's a Banuk chaman that seems to have some storyline scenes not featured in the main game.
Horizon Zero Dawn E3 2016 Trailer
I am wondering about two things:
1. the children that were raised from the robots within the contained zone. One day they were let out in the wild and built the foundation of the tribes? In the cut scenes, the children seemed to be more like modern day youths, not like children cut off from any kind of information (as they should be, as Apollo was destroyed)
2. The goal of Gaia is, to recreate the biosphere, so that human life is possible again. To do that, she has the ability to design and produce robots. All the robots wandering around were desgined by Gaia (the old Faro robos were deactivated).
In what way do these robots looking like dinosaurs / animals contribute to this goal recreating the biosphere? In what way is the design useful for that? What is the energy source of these robots?
I think at one point in the story it was kind of explained why the robots look like animals, but I can't remember it.
1. the children that were raised from the robots within the contained zone. One day they were let out in the wild and built the foundation of the tribes? In the cut scenes, the children seemed to be more like modern day youths, not like children cut off from any kind of information (as they should be, as Apollo was destroyed)
2. The goal of Gaia is, to recreate the biosphere, so that human life is possible again. To do that, she has the ability to design and produce robots. All the robots wandering around were desgined by Gaia (the old Faro robos were deactivated).
In what way do these robots looking like dinosaurs / animals contribute to this goal recreating the biosphere? In what way is the design useful for that? What is the energy source of these robots?
I think at one point in the story it was kind of explained why the robots look like animals, but I can't remember it.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Yeah, I wondered about that, too. If GAIA can create all other plant and animal life, and even birth human life, why does it need to create robot horses, not to mention robot T-Rexs? How would that contribute to re-creating an actual, natural ecosystem?
And moreover, wouldn't populating the world with robots be a rather dumb choice, given that robots were the ones who got you into this mess in the first place?
Ultimately, I just chalked that one up to "suspension of disbelief." But maybe there's some explanation I missed.
Nah Aloy takes the amulet thing from her blackened mummified hand, the suit broke open or elisabet took off her glove. The hologram probs just shows her as she was
Humdinger
Gold Member
I generally chose either head or heart. I went with heart when I could, because that's part of why I liked Aloy as a character. Despite all the crap she's been through, she has a big heart.
But I couldn't pick the "heart" option with Helis. I went with Fist. I was concerned that if I picked heart, she might forgive him or offer him a path to redemption, like she did with Olin. I just wanted him dead.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
ELEUTHIA, the subroutine responsible from creating the humans, had some educational basics - early childhood education really, more about learning language, writing, cognitive skills, socio-emotional intelligence, etc. Kind of stuff you'd get from your family. APOLLO was more about the kind of stuff you'd get from school.
We know that GAIA has studied animal and plant morphologies as a source of inspiration for her robotic designs, just as we actually do in real life (see biomimetics). During this research she learned about the Quaternary Extinction Event and how many animal species were lost to it. She felt sad about how they'd be lost forever, in oblivion. The designs are kind of a way to pay homage to these forgotten species.
As for energy source, the grazer machines convert biomass into fuel - Blaze - that is used to power the Cauldrons. Either the machines are charged at the Cauldrons or they themselves use Blaze for fuel.
One of the logs in the GAIA project base states that GAIA has developed a preference for dinosaur and giant animal designs in the robots she is creating - which they liked as it showed she was developing real AI.
In terms of why, another log shows that they are all part of the rebuilding and terraforming project - snapjaws filter toxins from water, thunderhawks are involved in atmosphere replenishing etc.
Power source wise they are all fuelled by bio fuels - that's why so many are seen grazing, and why they all have canisters. In one of the cauldrons it's explained that the robots are transporting fuel and minerals to the cauldrons to build more robots. Developing the bio-fuel source was Elizabets huge breakthrough and what led to FARO robots success in the first place, and how they managed to replenish the planet after global climate change in the first place.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Hmm, okay, thanks for filling me in on the game's explanation.
Still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You'd think a God-like computer capable of re-crafting the Earth and creating a massive range of biological life would be able to come up with a simpler, safer way to filter toxins from the water than building giant killer crocodile robots to do it. Especially right after giant killer robots have just destroyed your civilization.
But hey, I'll go along. Because, what the hell, you can't expect videogames to make a lot of sense. And besides, I love the game and don't want to spoil my enjoyment by thinking too hard about it.
Finished this today.
Oh man, I desperately need a sequel to this, I need to know more about the plot!
At first when the credits started rolling I was wondering what the hell was going on with Gaia's final message, about what transmitted to Gaia Prime and turned Hades into a self-aware AI, but thankfully the post-credit scene was ahead of me on that one.
One theory I had on that was in regards to the Odyssey, the colony ship launched by another company before the fall of civilisation. Now I did find a text log indicating that the ship was destroyed by an Antimatter containment failure, but I'm wondering if that's definitely true. It could have been a mistake, could have been a false message transmitted to make sure nobody tried to follow.
Given that the message appeared to have been received by Gaia Prime in 3020 it can't have been the original machine swarms as not only were they all offline, there was never any indication that they had actually achieved any kind of sentience. It seemed to me that there was simply a glitch put out in a software update that then propagated through all the self-replicated machines which caused failures in their Friend and Foe systems, along with removing any restrictions on their Biomass conversion units.
The other theory I had was that it was something from Tom Faro. He already wiped the Apollo database and killed the Alphas, all from his own secret/private bunker. It doesn't seem unlikely that he either cracked Cryogenics and spent a thousand years in stasis, or alternatively uploaded his mind into a computer and turned himself into an AI that has been waiting for whatever reason for the last 1000 years, perhaps it simply took that long for whatever process he used to digitise his mind to complete.
God damn I need to know, this is like the original Mass Effect trilogy cliffhangers all over again.
Oh man, I desperately need a sequel to this, I need to know more about the plot!
At first when the credits started rolling I was wondering what the hell was going on with Gaia's final message, about what transmitted to Gaia Prime and turned Hades into a self-aware AI, but thankfully the post-credit scene was ahead of me on that one.
One theory I had on that was in regards to the Odyssey, the colony ship launched by another company before the fall of civilisation. Now I did find a text log indicating that the ship was destroyed by an Antimatter containment failure, but I'm wondering if that's definitely true. It could have been a mistake, could have been a false message transmitted to make sure nobody tried to follow.
Given that the message appeared to have been received by Gaia Prime in 3020 it can't have been the original machine swarms as not only were they all offline, there was never any indication that they had actually achieved any kind of sentience. It seemed to me that there was simply a glitch put out in a software update that then propagated through all the self-replicated machines which caused failures in their Friend and Foe systems, along with removing any restrictions on their Biomass conversion units.
The other theory I had was that it was something from Tom Faro. He already wiped the Apollo database and killed the Alphas, all from his own secret/private bunker. It doesn't seem unlikely that he either cracked Cryogenics and spent a thousand years in stasis, or alternatively uploaded his mind into a computer and turned himself into an AI that has been waiting for whatever reason for the last 1000 years, perhaps it simply took that long for whatever process he used to digitise his mind to complete.
God damn I need to know, this is like the original Mass Effect trilogy cliffhangers all over again.
Remember that originally none of the robots were dangerous. The only reason they all developed killing abilities was because of Hephaestus infiltrating the Cauldrons. Originally they were all passive.
This is something I have heard since well before the game is released and I just have to ask, are you at all familiar with the modern state of robotics? You'd be surprised because a ton of robots are based on copying and recreating and even improving on designs found in nature whether its the wings of birds or insects, the limbs of four legged animals, the ability to swim in the water or stick to walls like a gecko. Nature gave us an incredible plethora of systems that are flexible, powerful and long lasting through countless generations of evolution so why reinvent the wheel?
Humdinger
Gold Member
Well, I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong with that plan.
It's not like that had just happened or anything.Because the wheel is a lot better, a million times more complex and intricate than those clumsy robots that are only trying to replicate physical movements.
They aren't "reinventing the wheel," anyhow; they are designing a new wheel. For example, the "function" of a crocodile in nature is not to filter toxins from the water. It is to eat a bunch of little fish and animals, shit them out, and make more crocodiles. In nature, the water is filtered by plants and microorganisms. For some reason, GAIA decided that wasn't good enough and figured giant killer crocodiles would be a better choice.
It's obvious why. Giant killer crocodiles are a lot more fun to fight than plants and microorganisms. And that's fine. That's how games are made. Crazy, unbelievable stuff gets inserted, and there's some half-baked rationalization for it, and you just buy in, because you know it's a game, and what the hell.
Well, I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong with that plan.
Because the wheel is a lot better, a million times more complex and intricate than those clumsy robots that are only trying to replicate physical movements.
They aren't "reinventing the wheel," anyhow; they are designing a new wheel. For example, the "function" of a crocodile in nature is not to filter toxins from the water. It is to eat a bunch of little fish and animals, shit them out, and make more crocodiles. In nature, the water is filtered by plants and microorganisms. For some reason, GAIA decided that wasn't good enough and figured giant killer crocodiles would be a better choice.
It's obvious why. Giant killer crocodiles are a lot more fun to fight than plants and microorganisms. And that's fine. That's how games are made. Crazy, unbelievable stuff gets inserted, and there's some half-baked rationalization for it, and you just buy in, because you know it's a game, and what the hell.
I was talking about real life, not the game. The game does more than enough to contextualize why the machines look like they do. It's not half baked at all and this comes from a gigantic life long can of SciFi. Horizon Zero Dawn pulls a lot of these ideas off better than most others have and not just videogames.
My point is that the idea of recreating machines based on real life creatures is hardly a stretch of the imagination as we are already doing it and have been for a very long time.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Well, you responded to me, so I assumed you were addressing my points. I wasn't saying that robot animals were infeasible. I read tons of SF as a kid. The idea of robot animals is hardly throwing me.
(I disagree that we are anywhere close to replicating the complexity of living beings, or even a single cell for that matter, but that's another topic.)
What I'm saying is that the choice to repopulate the world with giant robots is a transparently stupid one, given the context (robots gone beserk have just wiped out the entire human race and maybe all life ... so let's try that robot thing again, I'm sure it'll go better the second time). It's doubly stupid when you realize the functions assigned to the robots (e.g., water filtration) are things GAIA could accomplish in much easier, safer, and more natural ways.
It's half-baked, but that's okay. I love the game. Most games have stuff in them that makes little or no sense.
SolidusDave
Member
There were no other ways. Life literally went extinct. The Faro robots and the toxic atmosphere/waters reduced Earth to a rock.
Gaia still needed boots on the ground to build the spiral, clean up the toxins, collect resources and spread the stored plant seeds etc.
What other ways than robots could have been used for this? They are all under central control of Gaia (an AI as empathetic as a human basically, still more fool-proof than cloning-themselves constantly to watch over the whole process as it was explained) - of course before she had to separate the AIs to keep Hades at bay after he was freed by the signal.
She was also designed to have quite a bit of compassion and appreciation for life in general and even says as much. Not too mention I'm sure Gaia was well aware Apollo was gone after fucking Ted and that humanity wouldn't be able to to reintroduce the many species that weren't essential for reterraforming the planet. She basically got artistic with it and recreated a lot of the now extinct species of the past and gave them new tasks. She basically created a new ecosystem in place of the one that would never be without Apollo.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Ok, that makes a little more sense, that she would need machines to help clean the world up. It's a little odd, because she's capable of terraforming the Earth to her specifications and creating floura and fauna in great variety, and hatching human beings, and yet she can't create clean water and a spire? But okay, I'll go with it.
I do wonder why they would still be active (those goals would've been accomplished hundreds of years ago, and we just see them wandering around now), but I'm sure there's an explanation for that.
The functions still don't make sense to me -- some of them, anyhow. You'd think she'd be able to come up with something a little simpler and safer than a giant robot crocodile to filter water, for instance. Surely she had the ability to create the types of plants and microorganisms that would normally do that -- the ecosystem would not function without them.
Anyhow, that's enough for me. Thanks for the discussion, guys.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
She could, but she wouldn't. GAIA seems to have a kind of intelligence that is as close to human as possible, and human minds have quirks. Hell, I've played with genetic algorithms and generative adversarial networks before and, even though they're a far call from I'd call artificial intelligence, they invariably develop weird generative quirks.
GAIA's quirk is that she took a liking for biomimetic designs. She has studied and understood them, she knows their advantages and their weaknesses and found that they're probably efficient enough to do what she needs them to do while fitting her quirk.
Just 100% completed everything.
Every trial, every quest, every outfit, every weapon, every achievement, every metal flower, every Banuk figure, every relic, every text datalog, every audio dialogue, every Death Stranding easter egg...
... And I'm not sure I'm ready to say goodbye to this game yet. It was incredibly memorable. The finale's ending log from Elisabet is still ringing in my ears.
"You need to care..."
Every trial, every quest, every outfit, every weapon, every achievement, every metal flower, every Banuk figure, every relic, every text datalog, every audio dialogue, every Death Stranding easter egg...
... And I'm not sure I'm ready to say goodbye to this game yet. It was incredibly memorable. The finale's ending log from Elisabet is still ringing in my ears.
"You need to care..."
Plus if the earth was a lifeless rock, why would you put living organism in that? How would it live?
GuitarAtomik
Member
Didn't it explode before Zero Dawn was even finished? I remember reading an email that was basically informing everyone it exploded and that ZD was humanity's last hope. Or are you talking about something else (or am I remembering that wrong lol)?