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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

Big fan of Oxygen even if it has the same problem as Night Terrors i.e. as soon as Bill got into trouble you knew everything was going to be fine.

Well, within reason. It's good to see some semi-permanent consequences again.

I'm with Nardole - I don't understand why he can't just tell Bill either, seems just to be an excuse for some cheap jokes / tension.
 
I like this.

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IdreamofHIME said:
Why do you have airlocks on a ship with no air?
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It seemed to me like the airlocks were used as a space demarcation, a place between the inner station and outer space. There had to be some sort of air or compressed non-oxygen gas in the station because I'm pretty sure we saw decompression and cycling of air when they were in the airlock although maybe my memory is hazy.
 
KuwabaraTheMan said:
It's confirmed that they have asked and he's politely declined for the time being. But Tom Baker refused them for 12 years before signing up, so you never know.
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Is there anyone who can do a killer CE impression? I've heard a few and Pete Walsh & Nick Briggs don't quite do it for me - they're not bad though. Anyway, lets hope in 2030 we may get CE back in Doctor Who.
 
Chris has the problem of wanting nothing to do with Doctor Who, as opposed to Tom Baker's problem of wanting everything to do with Doctor Who as long as it bent to his ego and whims, so I think that's a bigger hurdle to deal with.

But hey, John Simm seemed much the same.
 
iFirez said:
It seemed to me like the airlocks were used as a space demarcation, a place between the inner station and outer space. There had to be some sort of air or compressed non-oxygen gas in the station because I'm pretty sure we saw decompression and cycling of air when they were in the airlock although maybe my memory is hazy.
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Right, but they wouldn't have been labeled or referred to as air locks given the ship's monetisation. Just thought it was a weird oversight in an episode devoted to one thing..air.
 
This series has clicked with me in a way I've not felt since Season 4. Season 5 I enjoyed, 6 - 9 had bright spots but were all over the place, not even so much in quality as Who is always a little inconsistent, but in that...I just didn't care.

Really pleased for Moffat that he seems to be wanting to go out strong.
 
IdreamofHIME said:
Right, but they wouldn't have been labeled or referred to as air locks given the ship's monetisation. Just thought it was a weird oversight in an episode devoted to one thing..air.
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May it's just that the ship was built before oxygen was monetised. And afterwards, well the crew would hardly have an incentive to waste breaths on repainting all the airlock signs, would they?
 
Exterminieren said:
FUCKING NO.

Come on, Chibnall, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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It's probably not his choice anyway, she's done years of guest appearances now. She's had a good run and has probably had enough.

It's always 'never say never' with this shit anyway, we're seeing that right now with Simm. Big Finish and future throwbacks await.

A-V-B said:
Is Bill even going to hang on as companion?
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The BBC say "no casting decisions have been made" officially to preserve the surprise of the end of the series, but don't expect anyone or anything to stay on. Expect a Eleventh Hour style clean break. New TARDIS, new Doctor, new companion, new tone.
 
I like Missy but I think having her just go means the next time the Master shows up can be a surprise, like it was with Simm and Gomez. I'm fine with it.
 
I don't honestly know why a clean slate is all that desirable for an incoming showrunner. Sure, a new Doctor's a great chance to relaunch the show, but throwing everything else out at the same time simply leaves you with a much harder job at landing it. It seems like Chibnall's going even further than Moffat did, to the extent of chucking out the existing writing staff, and with every move like that the chance goes up that the series falls flat on its face.

Rose and The Eleventh Hour absolutely nailed it, but there's no guarantee it will happen again, and Moffat in particular has talked about how much easier his job would have been if he'd had Tennant or an ongoing companion to work with. You'd have thought Chibnall would have been a little more cautious.
 
I'm actually really interested how the transition goes, because I feel like in the Moffat era the show gained a lot of fans, especially abroad, who aren't as understanding of that nature of the show. Weirdly, I think that in the UK even though the show had its lengthy hiatus Doctor Who was in the public consciousness and people understood it was a show that changed, so there wasn't really much resistance going from Eccleston to Tenannt, or from the RTD era to Moffat's time running the show. But then a different fanbase emerged, and especially among the American, younger segment it felt like change was resisted much more ferociously, at first with Clara's initial reception but then with Capaldi especially... and just reading about online there appears to be an enormous amount of trepidation about next year.

I personally am pumped, but I love when the show is born anew. I hope it is really different... though I suspect the Chibnall era will tonally fall somewhere between Moffat and RTD, based on his Torchwood work.

Exterminieren said:
I don't honestly know why a clean slate is all that desirable for an incoming showrunner. Sure, a new Doctor's a great chance to relaunch the show, but throwing everything else out at the same time simply leaves you with a much harder job at landing it. It seems like Chibnall's going even further than Moffat did, to the extent of chucking out the existing writing staff, and with every move like that the chance goes up that the series falls flat on its face.

Rose and The Eleventh Hour absolutely nailed it, but there's no guarantee it will happen again, and Moffat in particular has talked about how much easier his job would have been if he'd had Tennant or an ongoing companion to work with. You'd have thought Chibnall would have been a little more cautious.
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It rubs both ways, because it's easier to write if you have a hook like an existing companion, but also you immediately invite baggage. Moffat begged Tennant to stay for series 5, but weirdly as much as I love Moffat's synopsis for a Tennant-led series 5 & Eleventh Hour I don't think it would've been nearly as successful as it was.

That aside, it's also important to remember a key difference to the Tennant to Smith transition: for better or worse, true or not, the show was a critical and commercial darling, whereas now it's arguably at it's lowest critical and commercial ebb since 2005, where papers who were slavish to it before like the Guardian now call it a snoozefest week in week out, etc. A clean break will help immensely, and I actually think it's overdue - RTD's era got out before it dragged on and 'got old', and though I absolutely love this series I think for a wider audience I think a huge part of the problem is that the Moffat era has gone on about 2 years too long. Maybe 3.
 
Change in Doctor Who is always exciting, certainly- look at how changing the companion this year switched up the entire ethos and style of the show, from the Doctor on down.

The worry, of course, is whether the change that Chibnall's going to be offering is much good or not; from the sounds of it, the only common creative link to any previous Doctor Who is going to be himself, and he's not exactly covered himself with glory on that front (my fondness for The Power of Three notwithstanding). It's far too early to tell, obviously, but I'm far more nervous about the advent of Chibnall's Doctor Who than I was Moffat's.

APZonerunner said:
It rubs both ways, because it's easier to write if you have a hook like an existing companion, but also you immediately invite baggage. Moffat begged Tennant to stay for series 5, but weirdly as much as I love Moffat's synopsis for a Tennant-led series 5 & Eleventh Hour I don't think it would've been nearly as successful as it was.
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I think a lot of that series' success is down to how completely and thoroughly Moffat nailed The Eleventh Hour. As Phil Sandifer pointed out, Moffat made a pile of creative choices that frankly could have killed his take on the series dead on the spot had they not succeeded, from Smith's casting on down, and he and his crew aced every single one of them. It's impossible to know whether or not he'd have done so well with a Tennant-led Eleventh Hour, but he wouldn't have needed to- Television's Beloved David Tennant would have done the job for him. I really don't know whether Chibnall has an Eleventh Hour hidden in his locker.

That aside, it's also important to remember a key difference to the Tennant to Smith transition: for better or worse, true or not, the show was a critical and commercial darling, whereas now it's arguably at it's lowest critical and commercial ebb since 2005, where papers who were slavish to it before like the Guardian now call it a snoozefest week in week out, etc. A clean break will help immensely, and I actually think it's overdue - RTD's era got out before it dragged on and 'got old', and though I absolutely love this series I think for a wider audience I think a huge part of the problem is that the Moffat era has gone on about 2 years too long. Maybe 3.
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You're absolutely not wrong about this, though, and the time is probably ripe for a more general public-friendly take after the spikiness and weirdness that characterised much of series 8 and 9. We've got that at the moment, but you're right that it's probably too late without a wider, more fundamental change.

As much as I enjoyed series 8 and 9, they were the wrong series at the wrong time. Imagining what a series with the tone and energy of series 10 might have done in 2014 hot off the heels of the 50th anniversary kind of makes me sad for what might have been.
 
I would be a lot more enthused for the next series if the current one wasn't as good and fresh as it is. It doesn't really feel like Moffat's work.
 
Hot Coldman said:
I would be a lot more enthused for the next series if the current one wasn't as good and fresh as it is. It doesn't really feel like Moffat's work.
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I don't know about that- it's started off as a more confident-feeling series 5 for my money.

Granted, that generally means that it feels like Moffat filtered through a RTD filter, but I still think it's recognisably his series in a lot of ways.
 
Exterminieren said:
I don't know about that- it's started off as a more confident-feeling series 5 for my money.

Granted, that generally means that it feels like Moffat filtered through a RTD filter, but I still think it's recognisably his series in a lot of ways.
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Series 5 is very whimsical, which felt brand new at the time but has very much been a common theme of Moffat's run. Even when the show was trying to be down-to-earth (usually with Clara, or with the S7 Amy/Rory stuff or the James Corden episodes) the characters and world still felt like it had its head in the clouds.

Bill and the general vibe of S9 feels a lot more earthy to me, it's not really giving much in the way of menace or whimsy (Moffat's two biggest exports), rather there's a bit of urgency and a matter-of-factness to everything that I'm really enjoying. Without feeling terribly "domestic" either, which is what RTD's tenure traded in.

I think the thing it feels closest to right now is Series 3.
 
I'm really worried I'm not gonna like the new season to be honest. I can be real damn picky at the start anyway. Hated Smith, hated Capaldi, but grew to like both of them by the end and this season really has been Capaldi's best. Me and my Gf marathoned the whole thing recently and watching it back I noticed that it jumps around in quality a whole lot, but Capaldi's first two seasons bored me to tears outside of a few episodes despite Clara being my fav companion. I guess my point is I've only just got settled in with the series again and it's all being cast aside again.

I hate when they do that. Matt Smith's start felt really hollow to me since they lost the whole Doctor Who family of the Tennant era. Smith took some time to build some of that back up with Capaldi inheriting a small amount and now we're gonna be back to square one again :/
 
I don't think I've ever tuned into Doctor Who feeling that the whole thing was so goshdarn bittersweet. I was sad when I knew the previous incarnations of the good Doc were going to leave, but I think it was because I was happier with the content of Tennant's and Smith's runs that I felt like they'd gotten the due they deserved, even if there were some wonky episodes/plotlines here and there. (Meanwhile, I had no idea Eccleston was going to go, ha.) I think Capaldi's final season feels so bittersweet because he's done such superb work from his very first episode, but I don't think a lot of the writing and Twelve's plotlines have been worthy of Capaldi's commitment and acting caliber.

Pearl Mackie's Bill is such a refreshing joy to watch, too, and she and Capaldi play off each other so well. I love that Bill pushes the Doctor in ways very few previous companions have. I feel like with their interactions, we've seen new aspects of the Doctor this season. I think I keep mournfully coming back to the fact that Moffat has finally hit the perfect Doctor/Companion combo and dynamic in a way he hadn't for me for the entirety of his time as showrunner, and it'll all be over so soon.

Belated comment on 'Knock Knock' - I didn't love the plot of the episode, but the Bill/Doctor dynamic made it more than worth it. It was hilariously refreshing to have a companion trying to get rid of the Doctor, and actively trying to separate day to day life from adventuring Doctor life. Also, you know, not wanting the Doctor to embarrass Bill in front of her new roommates. (I'm sure the 'grandfather' references are going somewhere...) David Suchet made the episode work far better than it had any right to.

'Oxygen' was a gut punch I wasn't expecting. The Doctor's dialogue before leaving Bill in the hallway and Bill's reaction was all heartwrenching. (Capaldi and Mackie killed it.) The space walk with the Doctor trying to protect Bill was stressful and heartwarming all at once. It's funny, Bill and the Doctor have only had five episodes together, but it feels like they've been together for seasons. I wasn't expecting the Doctor to stay blind at the end of the episode, though it'll be interesting to see how long it sticks. Nardole has been great, too. His dynamic with the Doctor has definitely been a pleasant surprise.
 
How weird it feels that we all have to prepare for a fresh start with the Chibbs version of this show when this series already feels like a fresh start with the year long hiatus, more RTD like direction Moffat is going and that awful Clara gone/wiped from our memories replaced by the superior Bill.
 
I love Bill so much, my enjoyment of S10 is slightly dampened by the sense of dread that Moff will fuck her up somehow.

Companion rankings!

Donna > Bill > Rory > Martha > Rose > Amy > Clara

Sub-companion rankings!

Wilf > Jack > Jackie > Mickey > Adam > Craig

Still too early to see if/how Nardole rates.

Bobby Roberts said:
First the good news (Rose & Jackie)

and then the bad:

Michelle Gomez will not return as Missy.
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It makes some sense, but I'm still sad. I would've liked some between-Doctor continuity, but oh well.
 
Oxygen was solid. A little overstuffed but still a lot of fun with a deliciously on-the-nose resolution. And Bill+12 continues to be such a winning combination (and even Nardole's growing on me.)

This series definitely feels more of a kind with series 3/4/5 than anything we've had since, in a good way.
 
I'm not the first to say it, but with how the end of each episode leads into the next, this season really feels like a modern take on a Hartnell season. The end of Oxygen reminded me a bit of the end of the Celestial Toymaker, only blindness is a bit more serious than a toothache, and Extremis is probably not going to be anything like The Gunfighters.
 
acheron_xl said:
I'm not the first to say it, but with how the end of each episode leads into the next, this season really feels like a modern take on a Hartnell season. The end of Oxygen reminded me a bit of the end of the Celestial Toymaker, only blindness is a bit more serious than a toothache, and Extremis is probably not going to be anything like The Gunfighters.
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Oh God if only.

I'm still a bit peeved that they didn't use the 'There's blood upon the sawdust at the Last Chance Saloon' song in that Smith cowboy episode.

I mean, it wasn't a great episode by any means, but that would have at least bumped it up a few notches. People shit on The Gunfighters a lot but I still think it's one of the most fun Hartnell episodes. It's very different, and it's one of the relatively rare moments where Hartnell gets to do a lot of straight up comedy, which he's actually very good at.

But yeah the Hartnell tone in all these episodes is great. Including taking a lot of time to slowly explore these new spaces and figure out the rules of the story. Maybe I'm projecting because of a certain rumor, but there's a lot of story choices everywhere that make me see all sorts of connections.

I'll spoiler the next bit because it includes talk about that one rumor. It's about the previous episode:

The fluid link Nardole sabotaged is of course a reference to The Daleks, the Hartnell story that famously includes the Doctor secretly removing the fluid link because he wanted to explore the planet while the rest wanted to leave, meaning the Tardis wouldn't work, leading everyone into the hellhole that's Skaro, and eventually even losing the fluid link in the Dalek city which means they had to spend even more time there. Good old arrogant Doctor fucking up.

Anyway, it's telling that Nardole says something to the extent of 'you can't fly the Tardis without the fluid link', the Doctor asking who told him that, Nardole saying 'you did!', and the Doctor saying never to believe him and flying off anyway. In my headcanon (because it fucks with The Daleks a bit too much otherwise), the Tardis just evolved over time to not depend on the fluid link anymore.

My theory here is that the Doctor did indeed tell Nardole about the fluid link, but that it was the first Doctor, not Capaldi. Doctor 1 wants Capaldi on earth for some reason, knows he wants to fly off at every opportunity (after all, they're the same man), and because of his experiences/mistakes on his first trip to Skaro he tells Nardole about the fluid link as a last resort to keep the Tardis on earth.

So yes, I'm still saying Doctor 1 is in the vault, although the only thing that makes me (heavily) doubt it is that apparently we'll see what's in there this saturday, and I'm thinking they'll save Bradley for later in the season/christmas. But hell I'm sticking to it. It's probably the Master/Missy. And I'm also saying that the reason Doctor 1 wants to keep Capaldi on earth has something to do with Susan, if only because I can't see Moffat returning to the First Doctor and not touch on the 'one day, I will come back' speech. Along with the multiple Susan references in these episodes of course (we even had Bill call the Doctor Grandfather in Knock Knock).
 
I unabashedly adore The Gunfighters. I love how Peter Purves had to sandbag his singing because he had singing experience. Steven and Dodo are an underrated pair.
 
acheron_xl said:
I unabashedly adore The Gunfighters. I love how Peter Purves had to sandbag his singing because he had singing experience. Steven and Dodo are an underrated pair.
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Dodo definitely got the worst sendoff of any companion ever. She wasn't even there for her last scene, just Polly and Ben handing a letter to the Doctor where she says she left to live with her aunt, or something like that.

She was good fun though, I agree. But she's easily overshadowed by other/bigger companions just before and after her in a lot of fan discussions.
 
acheron_xl said:
I unabashedly adore The Gunfighters. I love how Peter Purves had to sandbag his singing because he had singing experience. Steven and Dodo are an underrated pair.
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The Gunfighters is just so damn fun.

And Steven is legitimately one of my favorite companions. All of his Big Finish stuff is great, too. Purves has a fucking incredible Hartnell impression these days.
 
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