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[SolicitorPirate]

So I've been having very mixed feelings about Detroit: Become Human, and the most recent E3 trailer hasn't done anything to calm my discomfort.

As someone who had been at least somewhat following the development of the Detroit since the very first Kara tech demo all those years ago, I had always been intrigued by the world and aesthetic the game gestured towards.

But as the characters and worlds became more crystallized over the past couple years, I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about this game.

David Cage is very clearly leaning on real struggles of slavery and oppression, but rather than telling the story through the lens of people who are oppressed and enslaved in 2017, we're getting a story with robots. Not only that, but all three playable characters are all white looking robots, two of which are male.

It just comes off as tone deaf to me. In a post gamergate, BLM and Occupy world, where some of the highest seats of American political power are held by self labeled misogynists and white nationalists, that Detroit believes it can only tell it's story of an oppressed class of people by putting us in the shoes of white guys.

 

[madmackem]

So I've been having very mixed feelings about Detroit: Become Human, and the most recent E3 trailer hasn't done anything to calm my discomfort.

As someone who had been at least somewhat following the development of the Detroit since the very first Kara tech demo all those years ago, I had always been intrigued by the world and aesthetic the game gestured towards.

But as the characters and worlds became more crystallized over the past couple years, I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about this game.

David Cage is very clearly leaning on real struggles of slavery and oppression, but rather than telling the story through the lens of people who are oppressed and enslaved in 2017, we're getting a story with robots. Not only that, but all three playable characters are all white looking robots, two of which are male.

It just comes off as tone deaf to me. In a post gamergate, BLM and Occupy world, where some of the highest seats of American political power are held by self labeled misogynists and white nationalists, that Detroit believes it can only tell it's story of an oppressed class of people by putting us in the shoes of white guys.

There were robots of all colours in that demo no?.

 

[hodgy100]

Most stories involving robots gaining sentience follow this theme.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Wut? There's a black protagonist android.

 

[Vira]

I would argue that having black enslaved Androids would have been much, much worse from a "message" standpoint.

 

[Prompto]

Jesse Williams is the voice actor/model for Marcus, who is one of the playable characters.

 

[GHG]

Weren't there robots of multiple ethnicities in the trailer?

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Detroit is probably the most likely city in the world for a cyberpunk-esque renaissance so I don't mind. It's just a recurring theme of the genre.

 

[chugen]

but if they had build every robot slave black that would have been a little weird

 

[Alienous]

This is how storytelling works.

You might take an alien invasion to say something about colonialism, for instance.

It isn't inherently 'fucked' - just need to hope that Quantic Dream and David Cage have some subtly and grace in handling the topic.

 

[Tygamr]

Jesse Williams has light features. But he's biracial.

 

[Get_craycray]

Are you sure you've been following the game? Because there are other "ethnicities" looking android, one if the main characters is too.

And here's an Android who's not white (and there are others)

 

[YoungOcelot]

This is how storytelling works.

You might take an alien invasion to say something about colonialism, for instance.

It isn't inherently 'fucked' - just need to hope that Quantic Dream and David Cage have some subtly and grace in handling the topic.

If you expect David Cage to have subtlety then you're looking in the wrong place.

 

[LQX]

If anything what really stood out in that demo/trailer was the amount of people of color. Did you watch it?

 

[Kinyou]

Markus didn't look white to me. Isn't it the guy from greys anatomy? Also making a sci fi analogy to real oppression is as old as time. The hope is that it gets people to empathize with the real oppressed

 

[Van Bur3n]

This doesn't sound like a very informed take.

 

[CambriaRising]

One of the playable characters is a Black Android. And the android's defining feature seems to be the blue ring on their temples, they are multiethnic otherwise.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

How can you make such a thread when Jesse Williams (a mixed black man who actually made a speech last year about oppression which went viral) is the face of the robot revolution?

 

[Octavianus]

..... No.

 

[Heckler456]

Eh? It opens with a black guy/robot singing, remember? Or are you purposefully ignoring that?

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Jesse Williams is the voice actor/model for Marcus, who is one of the playable characters.

Wut? There's a black protagonist android.

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

 

[Skux]

Welcome to the world of subtext! Whether it's handled well, we'll see. But I'm glad the game exists and implicitly contains these kinds of themes.

 

[arcticice]

What a time to be alive - people asking for ethnic robots.

To your point, different ethnic robots are present in the game. you just seem misinformed.

 

[SpiceMelange]

Only the hottest of takes.

 

[Seesaw15]

The first shot of the trailer was this brother singing negro spirituals

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Don't you think it would have been a little odd for there to be only black android?

Besides,this isn't really about historical slavery. Its about how to deal with future slavery, something we're probably better off discussing now so that we can hopefully handle android rights better in 50-60 years.

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

Moving goalposts...

I mean, what is this based on? Wasn't the kidnapper in the first trailer white?

 

[Psykotik]

not very informed outrage!!

 

[KillScottKill]

hope that Quantic Dream and David Cage have some subtly and grace

There's a string of words I never thought I'd read.

 

[Cartman86]

Of all of the things this game is most certainly going to fuck up when it comes to race/minority oppression I don't think this is one if them.

 

[Onaco]

Drunk/High/Tripping-on-Acid thread?

 

[Kinyou]

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

We don't know if the other ones wont be violent, also, it's for the player to choose. There was a pacifist option.

 

[sinkfla87]

There's a string of words I never thought I'd read.

Sounds to me like someone didn't play Indigo Prophecy!

 

[Monochromaticx]

Trying too hard to get ouraged there op

 

[Slaythe]

 

[notaskwid]

It's a Cage game, he'll fuck it up one way or another.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

He's played by this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5unl8XGrjNY

 

[jiggle]

Aw
You tried

 

[Elog]

To me it is the perfect angle - slavery is an abhorrent legal construct that is degrading and plain evil. Throughout history it has been used on many occasions to enable cheap labour - it is not a black only story.

In the demo they have multiple ethnicities - I think that is a good message - 'everyone can be made a slave with the right rationale from those in power'.

So I guess my position is the polar opposite of yours - I think it is brilliant to not focus on ethnicity in the game.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

Yeah, he's a mixed black man. Check this out.

 

[black070]

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

You can choose not to be.

 

[Herr Starr]

It isn't inherently 'fucked' - just need to hope that Quantic Dream and David Cage have some subtly and grace in handling the topic.

Judging by the early promo material for the game, I don't have high hopes. Detroit seems like it'll be anything but subtle. It's something that is preventing me from getting hyped for this game, regardless of how much I love Heavy Rain and enjoyed Beyond Two Souls.

It was this image that really began to worry me. Notice the text in the upper right. This is not subtle storytelling.

 

[Dahaka]

As someone who had been at least somewhat following the development of the Detroit since the very first Kara tech demo.

No you didn't

 

[MUnited83]

One of the protagonists is black, and android/robot revolution stories very commonly draw parallels with slavery, subjugation and other themes.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Jesse williams is mixed race.

Not sure how you missed the black guy singing to start the latest trailer...

 

[Kuroi Gogeta]

So I've been having very mixed feelings about Detroit: Become Human, and the most recent E3 trailer hasn't done anything to calm my discomfort.

As someone who had been at least somewhat following the development of the Detroit since the very first Kara tech demo all those years ago, I had always been intrigued by the world and aesthetic the game gestured towards.

But as the characters and worlds became more crystallized over the past couple years, I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about this game.

David Cage is very clearly leaning on real struggles of slavery and oppression, but rather than telling the story through the lens of people who are oppressed and enslaved in 2017, we're getting a story with robots. Not only that, but all three playable characters are all white looking robots, two of which are male.

It just comes off as tone deaf to me. In a post gamergate, BLM and Occupy world, where some of the highest seats of American political power are held by self labeled misogynists and white nationalists, that Detroit believes it can only tell it's story of an oppressed class of people by putting us in the shoes of white guys.

I think there's still much we don't know about this game. It could be saying a lot. Robot uprising stories have been done before, but they can be a way of exploring something deeper. For example, Westworld is pretty much about free will, consciousness and what "life" is and what it means to be "alive". Detroit can tell a similar story, or it can say something about the nature of "control", gaming and what reality and simulation are. There are different narrative paths that we can take and the story can end up being more than just about oppression. It could end up saying something about what technology in general means to humans and how it can facilitate or mitigate dangerous urges/actions.

 

[Slaythe]

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

Wait I don't understand, you said you've seen the trailer.

Which implies you have eyes. Which implies you saw you fucking make whatever you want out of him, including being calm and composed... Which also means you can make the other protagonists (of any color) angry if you want to.

Try harder.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Jesse Williams has light features. But he's biracial.

Fair enough. I wasn't aware that the character was modeled after a real person.

Don't you think it would have been a little odd for there to be only black android?

Besides,this isn't really about historical slavery. Its about how to deal with future slavery, something we're probably better off discussing now so that we can hopefully handle android rights better in 50-60 years.

Moving goalposts...

Honestly, I'm less interested in talking about potential future slavery when we could just talk about actual slavery that happens today.

 

[Fast Forward]

IDK, but either way, when anything evokes both Robots/Androids, and Detroit in the same sentence I IMMEDIATELY think Robocop. Sorry, but no separating the childhood connection.

Besides, Robocop is one of the few movies that is great from both the child, and adult perspectives.

 

[travisbickle]

It's free will innit.

 

[Earthpainting]

The parallels to the emancipation of African Americans in real life and machine life science fiction are going to be hard to avoid. People of colour were dehumanised and used as tools after all. I believe the word "robot" comes from a slavic word that essentially means slave too.