Though if Dany concentrated the three dragons' fire breath on the NK, things could've gone differently.
Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
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Though if Dany concentrated the three dragons' fire breath on the NK, things could've gone differently.
Thats what hurts the most. They keep fucking up these huge moments.
Aren't the WW immune to fire?
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Honestly several of the issues could have been fixed if the director didn't do such a poor job. Episode was still great and hyperbole is running high, but this could of been (maybe should have been) top 3 in the entire series. Things he could have done better:
- Fighting was edgy, constant moving around. There was no clarity identifying what is happening. We got a much better example of how to handle that with two large armies 2 weeks ago, this was 6 guys vs one army. A big issue with this is that it didn't sell the sense of danger. You didn't feel how they could die which was ever present 2 eps ago or BOTB, or.. every big fucking battle in the series so far. The sense of dread and danger was missing primarily due to poor directing.
- Sell the idea that NK is laying a trap. The sell for wights is they run and they never stop. You do this, you feel more fear for NK as to question how clever he is instead of wondering why they let them chill for 4 days.
- Too many last moment "saves" which came off hacky as shit instead of feeling real, like something in Hardhoam when people are saved last minute and it felt genuine.
- LF doing a creepy "I'm watching you" just felt hacky as shit to me lol.. With a different directory, the entire Winterfell arc wouldn't have looked as sloppy as it looked.
For my take on never directing anything or ever working for a tv series, D&D fucked up hiring this director for this episode. This guy has no place to directing a tv series like this, esp an "episode 9". Better not see this dude's name for s8, though with some reviews I suspect it's not happening. It's not like everything he did was bad. Some amazing winter shots, banter convos were all great and fun to listen to. But this should have been a grander episode than it ended up happening.
- Fighting was edgy, constant moving around. There was no clarity identifying what is happening. We got a much better example of how to handle that with two large armies 2 weeks ago, this was 6 guys vs one army. A big issue with this is that it didn't sell the sense of danger. You didn't feel how they could die which was ever present 2 eps ago or BOTB, or.. every big fucking battle in the series so far. The sense of dread and danger was missing primarily due to poor directing.
- Sell the idea that NK is laying a trap. The sell for wights is they run and they never stop. You do this, you feel more fear for NK as to question how clever he is instead of wondering why they let them chill for 4 days.
- Too many last moment "saves" which came off hacky as shit instead of feeling real, like something in Hardhoam when people are saved last minute and it felt genuine.
- LF doing a creepy "I'm watching you" just felt hacky as shit to me lol.. With a different directory, the entire Winterfell arc wouldn't have looked as sloppy as it looked.
For my take on never directing anything or ever working for a tv series, D&D fucked up hiring this director for this episode. This guy has no place to directing a tv series like this, esp an "episode 9". Better not see this dude's name for s8, though with some reviews I suspect it's not happening. It's not like everything he did was bad. Some amazing winter shots, banter convos were all great and fun to listen to. But this should have been a grander episode than it ended up happening.
Pretty much everywhere I look, it's getting praise and solid reviews. RT and IMDB and lots of reviews I've read all have generally very high marks for each episode
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
I know there was lazy stuff but I still loved the episode. Can't wait for the night king to get fucked up
Was definitely a terrible episode. And normally I'm rarely hard on the show. The action was great though, but nothing will top Spoils of War so far.
The writing is what brought it down for me. I can forgive the fast travel at this point, but so much was contrived. Yes, I know own, Zombies and dragons. But come on.
The writing is what brought it down for me. I can forgive the fast travel at this point, but so much was contrived. Yes, I know own, Zombies and dragons. But come on.
Not sure if you're joking, but Alan Taylor directed a handful of episodes in seasons 1 and 2. In fact, he did the very first episode 9!
I think Hardhome is still my favorite battle episode.
Sansa's "You could never survive what I went through" or however she put it, was total trash.
What did she go through that she had to get out of herself?
Throughout the entire story the only reason she survived was due to the actions of others, compared to Arya who's had to do plenty of awful things to get by.
Speaking of which... I really hope Arya is playing Littlefinger at his own game, because if she's really falling for this ploy... that's a character assassination basically.
What did she go through that she had to get out of herself?
Throughout the entire story the only reason she survived was due to the actions of others, compared to Arya who's had to do plenty of awful things to get by.
Speaking of which... I really hope Arya is playing Littlefinger at his own game, because if she's really falling for this ploy... that's a character assassination basically.
Sansa's been through an incredible amount of pain and torment. In all fairness, she's got NO IDEA what Arya has been doing. Though yeah, it's pretty presumptuous of her to assume Arya essentially wouldn't be able to handle it.
I agree with you about Sansa/LF though. She's regressing in her development if she blatantly falls for his ploy
If it was Arya in Sansa's place she probably would've gotten herself killed with her attitude.
Okay, terrible for sure, like Surfinn says though it's presumptuous and I wish they'd actually just sit down and talk about what they went though, I meant it's been weeks and they haven't communicated or talked or anything?
Arya was one of my favourite characters but she comes off like a psychopath now.
And if Sansa was in Arya's place she would probably have been killed in general.
This is also probably true. Arya is fiercer/more reactive than Sansa
Yeah I'm not totally on board with the menacing shit they're doing with Arya.
Though it makes sense to me that they don't talk much. They were never close and borderline hated each other
If anyone wants a good podcast analysis, Cast of Kings does it pretty well without grilling the show too much. For me the best battle scenes were:
1) Hardhome
2) Battle of Bastards
3) Spoils of War
4) Castle Black
5) Blackwater
6) Night King Lake
7) *Euron laughs*
8) A Dance with Drogon
1) Hardhome
2) Battle of Bastards
3) Spoils of War
4) Castle Black
5) Blackwater
6) Night King Lake
7) *Euron laughs*
8) A Dance with Drogon
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
She survived by surviving. she took Joffrey's bullshit for two seasons instead of lashing out and getting herself like Arya would have. She took Cersei and Tywin's bullshit and got married to Tyrion against her wishes. Arya wouldve ran away or refused and gotten herself executed.
Do you really think Arya would've survived Ramsey? she would've tried to kill him and gotten murdered or suffered a fate similar to Theon's.
Sansa was tortured by Joffrey, nearly raped and murdered by citizens of kings, nearly murdered by her own aunt, was raped and tortured by Ramsey and survived.
How so? Arya hasn't shown any aptitude at plotting and scheming and Littlefinger is the uncontested GOAT at plotting and scheming.
Pretty much. Arguably, had their positions been switched, Sansa would have skipped the whole Braavos adventure and gone straight to Jon at Castle Black. That would have created new issues of course.
I see a lot of praise and am glad people are enjoying it, but I thought this episode has the same pitfalls a lot of blockbusters have that get crucified for it. That said, it is not the end of the world or anything. I'll be tuning in next week with high anticipation nonetheless, but I thought this episode was very weak in key aspects GoT often excels at. Setpieces were of high quality without a doubt.
(My standards aren't even that GAF, I like Jurassic World for example
)True, but I'd like to think Sansa has developed and honed her political skills and awareness to the point of being able to at least question and suspect Littlefinger. Literally everyone knows he can't be trusted, and she's been around long enough to come to this realization on her own
That would be 4 of you wouldn't it?
I don't think the show is stupid enough to do that, mainly because of the dagger/knife. There is quite a lot of focus on it again this episode. There must be a purpose of it going from LF to Bran to Arya and now to Sansa in this way. That's the level that the show works now, I think. Otherwise thing they are doing with the knife makes now sense.
Sending Brienne away also doesn't make sense unless Sanda is up to something, i don't think it's exactly what LF was pushing for her to do.
No aptitude at plotting or scheming, except killing the Frey's and learning how to be a trained assassin who can work undercover, i'd say that requires some plotting and scheming.
Even if that were true, I'm not the only one who hates how things are being handled at Winterfell, it's completely dumb writing and it doesn't feel like something Arya would fall for.
I used to listen to them but had to stop in season 6, it pretty much became an hour of two people shitting on the show.
Thinking the same thing.
Did you just misspell morons?
That's not plotting and scheming. That's killing someone and using their face to poison their family. There's a huge gap between what LF has done (manipulate events, have his enemies kill each other, and put himself in a position to potentially take the Iron Throne) and what Arya has been shown to be capable of.
Arya hasn't been shown to be able to play on his level. If she had gotten the Freys to kill each other with nothing more than a few well placed words then that would be on LF's level.
When I watched that, it felt like it was a power play by Arya. She walks towards to dagger and then picks it up to show Sansa no longer has a weapon to defend herself but then Arya just hands it to her so she knows she doesn't need a dagger to kill her.
And why would she send Brie away? I don't think this is a plan to fuck LF either.
Arya is a kid, she's trained in one form of deception. LF can size up Arya as a vengeful assassin, and devise a scheme to have her play into his wishes. All Arya can do is wear somebody's face and ambush/kill LF outright. Not much cunning, but I imagine that working out.
Atomic Odin
Member
And the reverse would have happened even quicker. Sansa wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes before Tywin, on the road, escaping Winterfell after red wedding etc etc.
What has Sansa accomplished living so long till season 6 anyway? Almost everything that she suffered was because of her own choices & decisions. Arya wouldn't have been stupid enough to trust LF and go live with the boltons, Or lie to Royce & co. I mean they both had their fair chances to escape King's landing, guess who took it?
I was going to mention it myself. It doesn't contradict what Sansa said.
What are you talking about? Arya was smuggled out of the city by a man from the Watch, she didn't escape on her own. Sansa was the Lannisters' prisoner.
RustyNails
Member
I thought Hound was doing his own thing with Beric? Transporting the WW was Jon and Jorah's mission.
Tieno
Member
A reason might be because they sense Littlefinger is watching them and they're putting on a show and "acting out" Littlefinger's plan. In one of the earlier episodes we see Arya and Littlefinger both keeping an eye on each other.
Sansa and Arya also have Bran, who's in on Littlefinger ("chaos is a ladder"). Littlefinger gave his dagger to Bran, who gave it to Arya, who now has given it to Sansa.
The way I understood the episode (and this season), Sansa knows that Littlefinger is going to stab her back sooner or later and when LF told Sansa that Brienne would be there to protect both her and Arya, she sent Brienne away knowing the risk she was being exposed to. She didn't know how Arya would react after finding the letter and she decided to trust by sending Brienne away, basically saying that she believes that Arya would not make her any harm.
But now Sansa knows that Arya is on her side too.
Randy Lanzarote
Member
I'm hoping Arya is not as stupid as is being portrayed in the show, I wonder if those faces that Sansa found will turn out to be people Littlefinger has been using as informants.
Maybe Sansa is in on it as well, and the arguing is just a ruse for any little birds LF may have in Winterfell.
Maybe Sansa is in on it as well, and the arguing is just a ruse for any little birds LF may have in Winterfell.
Moff
Member
the only thing that is certain is that Sandor is no longer with Beric.
Beric says they will meet again and Sandor says "I fucking hope not". I am not sure it was clear who of the two would be off with Jon to Kings Landing.
Pretty sure they are not ever aware of when LF is listening. It's implied that the Arya and Sansa are one step behind Littlefinger, at least.
Atomic Playboy
Member
How on Earth was their plan supposed to work? All they know about the white walkers and the army of the dead is that they seem to stick together, and they don't need food or sleep like a traditional army. So how were they expecting to isolate a single zombie, who don't go out on their own, and take it without alerting the ENTIRE ARMY OF THE DEAD who would be in the immediate vicinity? It's the most bone-headed plot anyone on the show has come up with, to the point that you can't believe anyone would think it would work. That piece was just about the most garbage thing the show has done.
That aside, it was a great episode.
That aside, it was a great episode.
I'm gonna be pissed if he doesn't die come Sunday. It's time for that rat to die.
Yep so dumb. I wonder if George is gonna write it a little differently.
Someone is dying next week. Littlefinger followed by Cersei would be my top guesses. Doubt we'll get to see Varys with him again.
Really?
Together with three dragons, Dany concentrated all her firepower on fucking up one ship. She could have done it, but I am almost certain it would have required her to engage with Drogon and the other two would follow. I don't if she could direct Rhaegal and Visarion to do things on their own like that.
Speaking of those two dragons. They followed her North, yet they didn't follow her to the Loot Train Battle. Did she have a "sit" command or something lol?
I hope I'm wrong but I feel like Arya has pushed Sansa away for good. She's given Sansa more than enough reason to fear her now. I didn't see Arya handing her the dagger as a show of trust, and I don't think Sansa did either. That whole scene felt like one giant threat. "I know you want to be Queen. If you even think about betraying Jon, I could easily kill you and take your place."
Couple that with Bran staring at trees in the backyard and Jon being gone too long seducing dragon queen's, and I think Sansa will begin to feel like she no longer has a family, pushing her closer to siding with Littlefinger, who keeps promising to give her more power. And after feeling weak and helpless for so long, I think Sansa wants as much power as she can get.
Couple that with Bran staring at trees in the backyard and Jon being gone too long seducing dragon queen's, and I think Sansa will begin to feel like she no longer has a family, pushing her closer to siding with Littlefinger, who keeps promising to give her more power. And after feeling weak and helpless for so long, I think Sansa wants as much power as she can get.
i dont know apart from each scene not having little box in every scene with GPS location, exact date and time and summary of all the people on the scene. And to be sure on every line ... possible reference points to pevious episodes .... i was able to suspend my believe petty fine for it to make sense .... and gladly there was not traveling montage which is what fucked the books for me
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