Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End

31GhostsIV said:
I love the Lynch/Badalamenti process, it's a shame Angelo wasn't featured more heavily in the return.

Also, best midi-based coincidence ever.
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Thats fucking awesome.

On another note, I am still blown away by the ending. Even outside of the show and the implications for the characters and what not, it is like.

Twin Peaks sort of took the piss or took liberties with popular concepts of TV at the time it first aired. So many people were "Season 4 when" at the end of the episode and it is like an aspect of what they did this season is still kind of going after modern TV (and media in general most likely). So much shit is trying to get its hooks in to get people excited and want to watch another season, but there is a nauseatingly grim finality and emptiness to the finale. As horrifying as the whole thing is, I'm struggling to thing of a more ideal way to end the series.
 
Yeah, to be honest, the more I think about Episode 18, the more I'm at peace with it as an ending to Twin Peaks. It's bold, it's ballsy, it's brave, it's Twin Peaks.

That's not to say I won't scream with glee like a child if S4 is announced, because I will, but I'm quite fine with Episode 18 being the end forever too.
 
Solo said:
Yeah, to be honest, the more I think about Episode 18, the more I'm at peace with it as an ending to Twin Peaks. It's bold, it's ballsy, it's brave, it's Twin Peaks.

That's not to say I won't scream with glee like a child if S4 is announced, because I will, but I'm quite fine with Episode 18 being the end forever too.
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I feel the same. It's a fitting ending for the show, but if they want to explore it further, that's fine by me.
 
I wish the upcoming Criterion of Fire Walk with Me included an extended cut with deleted scenes inserted into the main feature. Seems a somewhat superfluous release otherwise.
 
Just finished listening to the score. As far as the new (because as far as I'm concerned, "Laura Palmer's Theme" is the GOAT) Badalamenti cues go (they are all spectacular FYI), my favorites are "Accident/Farewell Theme", "The Chair" (where was this used in The Return? I'm wracking my brain and can't picture the accompanying scene), and most of all, the one I've been desperately waiting for since Episode 8, "The Fireman" - it's the cue that accompanies The Fireman and Dido's "birthing" of Laura, and my goodness, what a beautiful, ethereal track. It's one of those cues that feels like it transports you to another world.
 
While everyone is talking about the score, I will take this (absolutely) final chance to recommend one goes out of one's way to see Xiu Xiu Plays the Music of Twin Peaks. It is absolutely essential to experience for Twin Peaks friends, I think. It was an unforgettable experience for me and the way they closed the show made me feel worse than the finale.

https://youtu.be/G2Ows9RgtQw?t=285
 
As a huge fan of Johnny Jewel/Chromatics, their involvement with The Return has only strengthened my suspicion that David Lynch is the coolest septuagenarian on the planet.
 
Solo said:
Just finished listening to the score. As far as the new (because as far as I'm concerned, "Laura Palmer's Theme" is the GOAT) Badalamenti cues go (they are all spectacular FYI), my favorites are "Accident/Farewell Theme", "The Chair" (where was this used in The Return? I'm wracking my brain and can't picture the accompanying scene), and most of all, the one I've been desperately waiting for since Episode 8, "The Fireman" - it's the cue that accompanies The Fireman and Dido's "birthing" of Laura, and my goodness, what a beautiful, ethereal track. It's one of those cues that feels like it transports you to another world.
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I believe The Chair is used in Part 9, when Bobby's mother gives them the message from Briggs and tells Bobby that his father always had faith in him. Such a powerful scene.
 
I wonder if Part 8 would've happened if The Return was only the original 9 episodes. I'm so interested in BTS stuff, I'd love to learn just how changed the show would've been in that case. Reading the original script for the Season 2 finale and realizing just how different it would've been if Lynch didn't rewrite basically half of it was amazing.
 
Solo said:
Yeah, to be honest, the more I think about Episode 18, the more I'm at peace with it as an ending to Twin Peaks. It's bold, it's ballsy, it's brave, it's Twin Peaks.

That's not to say I won't scream with glee like a child if S4 is announced, because I will, but I'm quite fine with Episode 18 being the end forever too.
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I don't need season 4. I want.


As I've had more time to digest it, I'm really happy with the ending. If that's all for TP, so be it.
 
I honestly think, we are still talking about it and for me, well I am still constantly thinking about the finale. If it was the satisfaction and stuff everyone really wanted to see, everyone would probably forget about it and move on. As weird as the ending is, oddly it is probably more of a treat for people who watched and cared than anything else could be.

Saying that, I totally understand and respect people being upset and disappointed.
 
Solo said:
Yeah, to be honest, the more I think about Episode 18, the more I'm at peace with it as an ending to Twin Peaks. It's bold, it's ballsy, it's brave, it's Twin Peaks.

That's not to say I won't scream with glee like a child if S4 is announced, because I will, but I'm quite fine with Episode 18 being the end forever too.
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Right there with you. I was dying for another season, and then Episode 18 was so damn good, I'm fine with that being the end.
 
Flipyap said:
Lynch said it, so it must be true.
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I can see where he's coming from, but I feel that I think about things with conclusive ends at the same rate as ones that don't.

Six Feet Under may have the most conclusive ending of anything I've ever seen, yet I still think about it to this day.
 
The God said:
I'm not understanding the "more conclusive ending = forgettable/less memorable" perspective some of yall have
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Well, it's true isn't it? Conclusive stuff lets you satisfied and ready to move on, this kind of ending lets you endlessly wondering, thinking and theorizing about it and thus produces a deeper impact.

It's a little masochistic I guess, but it works.
 
The God said:
I'm not understanding the "more conclusive ending = forgettable/less memorable" perspective some of yall have
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I don't think a more narratively conclusive ending makes it more forgettable or less memorable. But I think what a definitive conclusion does do, to the detriment of its story, is that it effectively ends that story as something to think about.

For instance, Breaking Bad. Excellent show, great ending, as conclusive as a series finale can pretty much get. But much as I love that show, it's not something I've really thought much about (other than the occasional "that was a really good show") in the years since. Twin Peaks, on the other hand, finished airing five days ago and I haven't been able to stop reading, writing, or thinking about it since. Maybe that will fade with time (hopefully...I don't think I want to spend the next 25 years still dwelling on Twin Peaks lol) but until then, the open-ended nature of that ending means that the show will be occupying a space in my brain for a while.
 
Solo said:
That was the best credits sequence of the entirety of The Return. Better than any Roadhouse segment.
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It was great, but the best is probably The World Spins, for the way it called upon memories of the emotions associated with that song to deepen an already powerful moment. It recontextualized the best scene of the original run and tied together the two series with beauty and grace.
As an aside, how did episode 17 transition to 18 on TV? Did they have credits between or were they rolled into one like the first two episodes were when they aired?

Next up would be the final episode for the haunting final image and music, and the darkness and silence at the end of 8.
The God said:
I'm not understanding the "more conclusive ending = forgettable/less memorable" perspective some of yall have
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For me one of the reasons this ending is so memorable is its being so conclusive.
 
Linkin112 said:
I can see where he's coming from, but I feel that I think about things with conclusive ends at the same rate as ones that don't.

Six Feet Under may have the most conclusive ending of anything I've ever seen, yet I still think about it to this day.
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Sure, there is something to it, but it's not a universal rule. Plus, this show abandoned so many plot threads, an ending that provides "closure" really wouldn't, couldn't stop us from wondering.
Mulholland Drive might have Lynch's most conclusive ending and I don't think any of us are going to forget that one anytime soon.

I'm content with the show dropping most of its plot threads before they managed to amount to anything, but that's largely because the threads that did get wrapped were handled in the least satisfying way possible.
 
Krev said:
As an aside, how did episode 17 transition to 18 on TV? Did they have credits between or were they rolled into one like the first two episodes were when they aired? .
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17 ended with credits, a quick ad break, and then 18 started with the intro. They didn't roll together like 1 & 2.
 
Tony Redgrave said:
Well, it's true isn't it? Conclusive stuff lets you satisfied and ready to move on, this kind of ending lets you endlessly wondering, thinking and theorizing about it and thus produces a deeper impact.

It's a little masochistic I guess, but it works.
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Not completely. At the least a ending that doesn't give you that much will leave you thinking about it but I don't think that automatically makes it more memorable than the alternative
Blader said:
I don't think a more narratively conclusive ending makes it more forgettable or less memorable. But I think what a definitive conclusion does do, to the detriment of its story, is that it effectively ends that story as something to think about.

For instance, Breaking Bad. Excellent show, great ending, as conclusive as a series finale can pretty much get. But much as I love that show, it's not something I've really thought much about (other than the occasional "that was a really good show") in the years since. Twin Peaks, on the other hand, finished airing five days ago and I haven't been able to stop reading, writing, or thinking about it since. Maybe that will fade with time (hopefully...I don't think I want to spend the next 25 years still dwelling on Twin Peaks lol) but until then, the open-ended nature of that ending means that the show will be occupying a space in my brain for a while.
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I can understand that, but I still feel like if you've made something truly great or impactful then people will still talk about it even if you've given them most of the pieces
Krev said:
It was great, but the best is probably The World Spins, for the way it called upon memories of the emotions associated with that song to deepen an already powerful moment. It recontextualized the best scene of the original run and tied together the two series with beauty and grace.
As an aside, how did episode 17 transition to 18 on TV? Did they have credits between or were they rolled into one like the first two episodes were when they aired?

Next up would be the final episode for the haunting final image and music, and the darkness and silence at the end of 8.

For me one of the reasons this ending is so memorable is its being so conclusive.
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Why did you find it conclusive?
 
The God said:
Why did you find it conclusive?
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answering for myself only, of course, but the ending is really conclusive to me because it shows the result of the struggle of the entire series: Laura dies, and can't be brought back, because these strange manipulative forces of evil are too powerful to be messed with. Cooper loses because he tries to change the past, Laura loses because Cooper forces her out of a pleasant dream ('pleasant' relative to her actual fate,) but Carl and many other characters in TP proper win, because Doppelcoop/BOB is gone and they can live their lives happily.

The ultimate winners, of course, being Dougie and his family :)
 
Blader said:
I don't think a more narratively conclusive ending makes it more forgettable or less memorable. But I think what a definitive conclusion does do, to the detriment of its story, is that it effectively ends that story as something to think about.

For instance, Breaking Bad. Excellent show, great ending, as conclusive as a series finale can pretty much get. But much as I love that show, it's not something I've really thought much about (other than the occasional "that was a really good show") in the years since. Twin Peaks, on the other hand, finished airing five days ago and I haven't been able to stop reading, writing, or thinking about it since. Maybe that will fade with time (hopefully...I don't think I want to spend the next 25 years still dwelling on Twin Peaks lol) but until then, the open-ended nature of that ending means that the show will be occupying a space in my brain for a while.
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Exactly. I haven't been this absorbed in thought about a fictional world since seeing The End of Evangelion as a teenager, an ending that has a lot of similarities and a similar open endedness balanced with bleak conclusiveness (tilted a bit more toward openness than this one). Based on my experience there, I'm going to say that this level of living within the Twin Peaks dream will of course fade with time and we'll move on, but on some level the depth of our reaction to this is going to stick with us for life. This is what it feels like when art really changes you.
hughesta said:
17 ended with credits, a quick ad break, and then 18 started with the intro. They didn't roll together like 1 & 2.
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Makes sense. I'm trying to imagine the transition between Julie Cruise's angelic voice and Satan himself burning eternally in the hell of hells. It's too broad a gap to bridge for even Lynch.
The God said:
Why did you find it conclusive?
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Firstly, it suggested an infinite recursion. Cooper and Laura are in a cycle where no matter how things superficially change, the core of their existence will not. Any further depiction of their experiences would be superfluous - there's nothing more to be said about them. They are trapped in ambiguity, but the show itself is not,.It's ambiguity is directed toward a greater purpose.
The second reason is this purpose: Lynch using the element of mystery to express a definitive statement and message. We can't live in the world of Twin Peaks and dispel all its mysteries, but at least as far as processing it as a show goes, this statement was so all encompassing that it provided a key to make sense of all that had come before, at least on an emotional and metaphorical level. Even the baffling creative choices start to fall into place because the curtain has been pulled back on the rationale that lead to them and the purpose they serve, at least to my experience of the show.

It's open-ended mystery at the service of commenting on the nature of mystery, in a way broad and deep, and so I was totally satisfied. The book is closed, the author has spoken - there's nothing more to be said. From here, we wake up from the dream and carry the message to our own lives.
 
Tony Redgrave said:
Well, it's true isn't it? Conclusive stuff lets you satisfied and ready to move on, this kind of ending lets you endlessly wondering, thinking and theorizing about it and thus produces a deeper impact.
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Quantum Leap had a conclusive ending of sorts, but it didn't stop it being loved, hated and debated in equal measure

Half wanted more to literally see what Sam did next and how the timeline changed by his finale actions, and argued that the title card was lazy. Half were satisfied that wasn't really the point - that Mirror Imagine wanted to say it wasn't some
force or god leaping Sam around, it was his own altruism and he could have gone home if he'd wanted to

Different strokes.

Having digested the TP finale, I'm much more content with it. S3 was a little flabby in places, but goddamn it hit some incredible sweet notes and was a good ride overall.
 
The God said:
I can understand that, but I still feel like if you've made something truly great or impactful then people will still talk about it even if you've given them most of the pieces
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Yeah absolutely. And I think if you look at it from the other end, leaving something open-ended just because the writers flat out gave up is a really obnoxious and pretentious way to end a story. I think the open-ended nature of Twin Peaks' ending works so well because it's so thematically conclusive even if not narratively conclusive, and that feeling of thematic conclusion and emotional fulfillment overrides the lack of narrative conclusion. For me, at least.

It's not that different from how I felt about the finale to Lost, which left some plot threads unresolved and others resolved but in a kind of half-assed way, but was still so thematically and emotionally complete that that feeling felt way more satisfying to me than ticking off a checklist of unresolved questions. Proving that point was a post-finale short that did exactly that and I felt pretty much nothing from watching it, lol
 
Kadayi said:
The original series soundtrack sales must have made her a tonne of money, so it seems a bit bizarre to get righteous at Lynch over matters now.
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They had a very close creative partnership. He wrote the lyrics for her first two albums.
Her freak out honestly points towards mental disturbance. My read is that she is so afraid of what Lynch thinks of her that she is projecting bad intent onto good actions. She has built an elaborate paranoid fantasy, that he would derail an artwork he has spent at least half a decade on right at its climax in order to humiliate her.
Lynch is not above a good slap in the face - but that tends to look like something as absurd as the evolution of The Arm, not as her song's place in history being paid tribute to, at the same time that it is re-imbued with the deep emotions of the best storytelling Lynch and Frost could put together.
 
So something I've never been too clear on all these years is, why is Laura so important? Why is she treated as "the savior"?

She didn't really defeat bob as much as she sacrificed herself to stop him from using her a host.
 
Not Spaceghost said:
So something I've never been too clear on all these years is, why is Laura so important? Why is she treated as "the savior"?

She didn't really defeat bob as much as she sacrificed herself to stop him from using her a host.
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That's why Cooper told her not to take the ring. She wasn't suppose to die, I guess if she got possessed by BOB then maybe Cooper had a backup plan for that which was less insane than traveling back in time.
 
hydruxo said:
Hmm Del Rio was great but I wouldn't have put her at #1 personally. I think Shadow was still the best one.
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I appreciated that they put Harry Dean Stanton's Red River Valley in the bonus section though. Beautiful scene.
 
having settled on it for about a week now, and thinking over it, I think The Return is the greatest season of television to ever air. and I think the final scene is the most horrifying thing to ever be on TV, and perhaps the scariest thing I've ever seen (only IE's Phantom Dern gives it a run for its money)
 
Clear said:
Well, Audrey's arc is kind of the key to understanding it all; in fact it appears to be the primary purpose of her scenes within the story.

What do we learn from her scenes:

1. "Dreams" can be a cage. Audrey is trapped in a purgatorial loop stuck in the house with Charlie.

2. "Dreams" can be broken by a triggering moment. Her terror at the fight unexpectedly breaking out snaps her out of it, and she awakens to a new reality.

She is like the dreamer who dreams, and lives within the dream. But who is the dreamer?

The obvious answer being that its Audrey, but which is the real Audrey? How she sees herself in the situation with Charlie, or is it just her staring, confusedly into her own reflection in an all-white room?

Who is that Audrey? What's her story?

Square that against what the Log Lady says about there being some small fear in "letting go", and Hawk's calm agreement that death is just a change, not an end.

So really, there's not much to be feared but the unknown. So when the lights go out at the end, how terrible is that really?
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Yeah. It seems to fit.
 
hughesta said:
having settled on it for about a week now, and thinking over it, I think The Return is the greatest season of television to ever air. and I think the final scene is the most horrifying thing to ever be on TV, and perhaps the scariest thing I've ever seen (only IE's Phantom Dern gives it a run for its money)
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The only film work in that same echelon of fear for me are Inland Empire and Rosemary's Baby.
 
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