At the 1hr mark he does one of those "saying it without saying it" "jokes" because he's jealous Pew got to say it.
PewDiePie calls someone a "fucking n****r" during PUBG livestream
- Thread starter chaobreaker
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Boogie goes wherever the wind blows. Right now, Youtube skews right, so that's where he is. I'm sure on Bizarro Youtube he'd be more liberal. He's not very bright, and he's a not very brave. He says whatever he thinks the most people will agree with because he's afraid of alienating the general audience.
The funny thing is: I bet a lot of those people who are defending him don't actually watch him and necessarily like his content. I don't get it either.
I used to love his videos and (ashamedly) used to defend his remarks, but then repeatedly he would come up with these racist remarks and there is FUCKING PATTERN.
Wake up people!
It is absolutely anyone who harbors racist thoughts, but no I don't agree anyone who uses a racist slur harbors racist thoughts. When I was younger in particular people used some offensive terms without even thinking about it. There definitely can be a disconnect.
For example it's still quite common in the UK to say "stop being a woman" even if you don't think badly of women in the slightest. The use of that word has become somewhat separated from the actual meaning.
In short people say those words because they're racist, or just because they're stupid.
Doesn't mean we should defend it's use. But I think we should be attacking people for the mere use of the word, not for being a racist.
If you're someone who used a word like that and aren't racist, you're going to completely ignore anyone who accuses you of that. But if instead we're saying "just using the word is unacceptable whether or not you think that way" it's going to be more effective.
In my humble opinion.
that makes him racist. the same reason someone using the term "faggot" to describe something they don't like is homophobic. the moment you take a word like n***** and use it in a derogatory way, it's racism. he can't plead ignorance on this one. he's not a 2 year old who repeated the word after hearing his dad say it without understanding what it meant, he's fucking 27. he knows what it means, he knows it's a racist term, he shouldn't be using it, and worse, it should not be a go-to phrase when he's having a mardy in a fucking video game. not once has that word ever popped into my head in frustration. there are ways to express being pissed off without being a racist asshole.
One can presume they use it too in the heat of the moment, which is telling. I remember last friday throwing my switch down after a narrow splatoon 2 loss and yelling out "Fucking worthless scum". For some reason in the midst of sad sad nerd rage I did not go racial, weird right?
That guy is good friends with h3h3 and is in some of his goof videos as well, and some wonder why a lot of people have gone off him completely.
Shockingly you can be both racist and stupid. And if you casually say "don't be a woman" as an insult then you are definitely being sexist and probably have some implicit bias, some unexamined negative beliefs about women in your mind. If you want to insult someone and reach for racist language, then at minimum it means you are comfortable with racist language, most likely harbor racist beliefs, and are clearly perpetuating the harmful norm that racist language used as insults is ok.
cartographer
Member
Because if PDP is racist, that means they are racist or their friends are racist. But that can't be true because they are good people, therefore PDP is good people, too.
That's the root of all of it really. They see something in PDP or his actions that remind them of themselves or their friends and get shook when criticism rolls in because maybe that criticism can apply to them, too.
Or they are alt accounts created to specifically account suicide. Sometimes both.
I thought he tweeted he wasnt going to defend racists? That didnt last long.
Anxiously awaiting his video defending BLM to maintain his "middle" status.
ken_matthews
Member
I agree with you; ignorance is not a defense. However, it may be the actual cause of some peoples use of the n-word. I think that matters because you remedy ignorance through education and conversation. If you start the conversation with "you are racist" when the person is really just ignorant, then you failed before you started. I guess my point wasnt really about Pew my point was about the conversation and tactics in combating racism. I believe many people can throw off the baggage of growing up in bad and/or racist culture.
Maybe Pew is racist, maybe he is just ignorant; I dont think it matters. He has millions of followers on Youtube and his casual use of the word is harmful. If it was my call at Youtube (even without knowing anything else about him), I drop his channel. But maybe that is not the right decision with the best outcome against racism. If he is simply the product of bad culture and is ignorant, then maybe he can be educated through his personal life. Then he can share that with his millions of followers.
Totally agree.
The problem is that people will, and have been using the above as a defence for his behaviour. Legitimately saying "well he didn't mean n word, he meant xyz".
Completely misses the point. Someone who uses racial slurs as synonyms are just as bad as overt racism. The damage is the same. You're using someone's race as a weapon, it doesn't matter if you're being "intentionally" racist or not.
HammerFace
Banned
Damn, I was in the process of basically saying this exactly.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Or a much simpler reason: they like him, and thus in denial about him doing something bad.
Don't think PDP will get punished or anything, wouldn't be surprised if he just lays low and rides the storm.
The gaming industry will always have this problem and devs need to pull their heads out. Blizzard/Valve/EA will gladly speak out against racism/sexism etc but anyone can log in to Dota 2/Overwatch/CS and say the usual edgelord crap and what would really happen? A days suspension at best? Report function does nothing.
The gaming industry will always have this problem and devs need to pull their heads out. Blizzard/Valve/EA will gladly speak out against racism/sexism etc but anyone can log in to Dota 2/Overwatch/CS and say the usual edgelord crap and what would really happen? A days suspension at best? Report function does nothing.
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
Just watched it. His repeated use of the word 'tolerance' doesn't sit right - it sounds like 'putting up with', as in "I put up with the perfectly harmless Black, Latino and gay people in my local community and they put up with me and all my short-comings." It implies that somebody's race or sexuality is something to tolerate, like it does some actual measure of harm to others, in the same way we tolerate real short-comings of character in others.
He's right that we do have to tolerate people we disagree with, even if they hold views we find entirely repellent - that's the basis of a free democratic society - but that just obliges us to respect their right to an opinion, it doesn't mean respecting, protecting or listening to those views.
I can respect PDP's right to think whatever he wants about people of different races, I can even begrudgingly respect his freedom to express those views, but it doesn't mean I have accept them or let them pass unchallenged, it in no way rescinds my right to say I think that's really shitty behaviour, doubly so given his platform, position and influence and to reasonably argue that it smacks of something more than a simple joke or meaningless throw away comment.
His partners, sponsors and platform holders, as private entities, can also respect those basic freedoms, but it doesn't imply that they owe him their sponsorship or that they should risk reputational damage to honour existing contracts with him. He has the freedom to say really shitty things aloud on his show and the rest of us have the right to say 'fuck you, man - not cool and shame on you'.
Boogie seems to think, if we're calling people out for stuff were somehow infringing on their fundamental rights - we're not, we're simply exercising our own. He should now exercise his.
Why would they like him if they don't know who he is? We aren't talking about his fans here.
Dirty little secret, online MP is a cesspool of slurs. And if PDP is racist, so are these people. And as we all know by now being called a racist is worse than the actual racist and bigoted shit these people do.
Waluigilicious
Member
I'm going to have to disagree even if I understand what you are trying to say. If you truly were over separating men and women then you wouldn't say that.
There is even a perfect valid substitute. "Stop being a baby" works well and makes sense as babies cry uncontrollably, are physically weak etc. I'm from UK btw.
They self-admittedly don't know anything about him. The most they could know is that he is a white male and said something racist. So what they like about him would have to be in that limited info. It's entirely possible and believeable to me that that is what they like about him: he's a white male who said something racist.
I have to disagree. It's possible to be racist, sexist, homophobic etc. without realising that you are. Not every racist individual is consciously thinking that people of other ethnicities are beneath them, but the racism is there nonetheless.
If someone thinks that being a woman is an insult, then they are sexist to some extent, whether they realise it or not. It's also possible to be sexist whilst also being a woman, as sometimes these thoughts are implanted by society from a young age.
Some people, when educated on these issues, have enough self awareness and maturity to realise how harmful those ideas are, and stop speaking or thinking in that manner. The difference is whether you continue to say harmful things after realising the implications of those words. If their response is to just focus on the fact that someone sees you as racist for your actions, instead of taking responsibility, then that points to the individual having an attitude problem.
If someone knows what the N word means, and uses it as an insult despite that, there's absolutely no reason to assume that they aren't a racist in my opinion. In fact, I think dismissing them as 'stupid' or 'immature' is harmful. There's no need to diminish the implications of their actions.
MrMysterio
Member
Yep, we're witnessing the most prominent figure in gaming culture to be a white supremacist and get away with it.
From my perspective, the being both racist and stupid was implied.
I just don't believe in these black and white blanket statements "if you say this then you MUST think this, logically speaking". I think they're dumb and reductive.
People will always use whataboutism and deflection when confronted to address their behaviour.
When told that someone's conduct is racist, homophobic etc, it's far easier to say "well, you're just being PC, SJW etc" then to actually think about their own actions.
It's easier to justify the indefensible when you see the complaint as the wrong, not the actions that cause it. The defence force we have here invokes this hard.
Prime crotch
Banned
How does any of this work, pewdi has already had a "moment of clarity" (after blaming everyone else) with his edgy nazi jokes, then somehow starts dropping fucking n-words? Where is the evidence of him moving on from being racist?
So why are you commenting in this thread about him?
GHG
Member
Yep because it would then require these people to do some self reflection, which they don't want to do because they are scared about what they might learn about themselves.
Either that or they have friends who behave in a similar way to PDP which would then mean questioning their friends and themselves (in the sense of "what does that say about me if I'm friends with people like this?").
It hits too close to home for many of these people. Hence the mental gymnastics on display to try and make it anything other than racism.
We're talking about a very specific scenario in this thread. Using a racial slur as an insult. Not merely uttering the word.
shinra-bansho
Member
Why is PDP a "cause" at all? He's a privileged rich manbaby.
Is helping casual racist obnoxious fucks see the light like someone's go-to pet project?
Is helping casual racist obnoxious fucks see the light like someone's go-to pet project?
I still don't get what gets so many people to cape for this shit on Twitter and Youtube. But Mark Brown linked this excellent Twitter thread on how it can foster and dominate the conversation on there.
https://twitter.com/Jam_sponge/status/907171601975795712
In short, having some damn dignity and trying to foster an inclusive audience makes you stick out and be targeted. Which leads to creators not speaking up, which further normalizes the behaviour and supports the status quo.
That's another reason I want creators to speak up against this shit instead of keeping quiet. And especially not play the centrist "actually, ..." asshole.
https://twitter.com/Jam_sponge/status/907171601975795712
In short, having some damn dignity and trying to foster an inclusive audience makes you stick out and be targeted. Which leads to creators not speaking up, which further normalizes the behaviour and supports the status quo.
That's another reason I want creators to speak up against this shit instead of keeping quiet. And especially not play the centrist "actually, ..." asshole.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Boogie can fuck off. The only reason you have these chumps refusing to speak out against this overt racism is because it also shines a light on their crappy character beats on their own videos. Let's not forget that he defended JonTron earlier this year too when that clown went milkshake duck
Boogie2988: "I don't agree with JonTron, but I dont fault him for trying on the idea (of white supremacy)"
this ain't his first rodeo. he's had multiple chances, all he does is make "heart felt" "apology" videos when he makes these blunders, and then proceeds to do it all again in 6 months time. he won't change because he feels he doesn't need to. he's youtubes poster boy. he has a millions of people enabling and defending him and his views, and he makes millions doing it. he probably feels untouchable. he can do what he wants, say what he wants and nothing bad will come of it. he needs a reality check. i think stripping away his youtube channel would do that, but i don't for one second think it would change the person behind the channel.
Ask yourself, where did you learn that comparing someone to a woman works as an insult and is an acceptable thing to say? What does it say about your own beliefs that comparing a man to a woman is insulting? There's nothing reductive about recognizing the corrosive influence of racism and sexism and how deeply they are embedded into society. Are you familiar with implicit bias? You are most likely bias in ways you are not fully conscious of because your own beliefs are unexamined. That's the way it is for most people including those comfortable with using racial slurs and sexist language.
I 100% agree with you on this, actually 95% agree with you. I think there are a lot of people who aren't educated enough to realise the impact and meaning of their words. And there are also people who are wilfully ignorant, and I believe PDP fits in to that latter category.
Now there is no question that the use of this phrase is racist, and no question that offensive terms like this are harmful and bigoted.
But I think there's a big difference between someone doing something racist and someone being a racist. Those awful dead baby jokes that were big a decade ago, do you genuinely think that people who told those jokes would be more okay with seeing a dead baby in real life? No because there's a disconnect. Does that make the telling of those jokes any more okay? No of course not.
There is nothing about being ignorant or stupid here. Stuff has been posted in this thread(cba to find it/Watch the update in the OP if it's still live)that shows us his true nature.
This isn't the first time he has said the word none is his he unaware of what he is doing. He categorically said later in that stream he knows the people watching don't care what he said.
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
This is important to recognise - I caught myself have a sexist moment not long ago: I was getting a key cut at a local cobblers and when I approached the desk and handed it the master key to the female assistant she turned to oneside, as she did, my brain immediately made the assumption she was going to fetch a man to do the cutting (literally the most crazy simple thing in the world) and when she fired up the machine and it herself I caught the immediate dissonance in my perception and thought: "fuck, that was so sexist."
Essentially, a lot of these things are socially ingrained, so recognising that and doing what you can to redress it becomes part of the fight, if you're someone who really cares about these issues. My brother takes a different attitude, he knows he grew up in a rural backwater and that that has shaped him in ways he's not proud of - he does what he can to redress that, but his primary concern is making sure his son and daughter never wind up thinking that way.
ebullientprism
Member
I am not trying to defend PDP or excuse his behaviour. But....here is a list of 15 reasons why he might have said this and still not be a racist.
Woah woah woah woah. Who said I would ever use the term 'woman' as a derogatory comment. All I said is that it is commonplace in the UK. It's totally a sexist thing to say, but I can also recognise people using the term who aren't themselves sexist.
Yes there is implicit bias which is a factor, but a bigger factor is parroting and peer pressure. mimicking what is said elsewhere which will have a root in sexism. Of course a sexist or racist comment has roots in seixsm or racism. But for the individual making those comments there are a bevy of reasons why they might have said it. And I'm sorry but for a large number of people that reason is stupidity and ignorance, not flat sexism or racism.
Reposting from the other thread:
"Tolerate intolerance" is such fucking bullshit. Racists and bigots, by definition, do not tolerate the people they hate. People using racist slurs are not to be tolerated, because the racial slurs, by definition, demean and show intolerance to another group of people.
And boogie seems to be very adamant about that...if it concerns him, personally. If people fat-shame, boy howdy, he will call them out, stop calling them a friend and condemn them.
Meanwhile, here is talking about how people do "very bad things", how they are vindictive with their outrage and think they are the "good guys". And he is not talking about his White Supremacist friend Jontron. He is talking about the people offended by him. He also talks about how he "can't fault Jontron for trying to figure it out for himself and think about it himself instead of swallowing a narrative".
He defends racists like Jontron or people using racist slurs like PewdiePiew (I'm differentiating here because I know otherwise that's going to overshadow the rest of the post), while not agreeing with them, but it's totally OK for them to have these opinion and talk like that. Where is that understanding centrist position in regards to fat shaming?
Boogie is an ignorant fool who thinks all he cares about is other people and everyone's well-being, but who is actually incapable of looking past his own experiences. If a topic doesn't concern him personally he will 100% straddle the fence. Only when he personally suffers, then will he condemn people and call them out. It's insincere and hypocritial - and kinda disgusting.
I am not trying to defend PDP or excuse his behaviour. But....here is a list of 15 reasons why he might have said this and still not be a racist.
It doesn't. fucking. matter. if you use racial slurs you use racial slurs. It doesn't matter if you think, deep down, that black people are worse human beings. If you act like a racist cunt you will be treated like a racist cunt.
Nah,nope. I'm gonna stop you right there. Men saying that are harbouring misogynistic and sexist ideals but are ignorant of there own actions and what it does. They would rightfully be called sexist/misogynistic if any of their friends had any backbone if they weren't sexist/misogynistic themselves
I don't really know enough about PDP to know to be perfectly honest. I will definitely accept he could be a racist. But there's a possibility he's also just an asshole.
GHG
Member
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
A lot of people defending his use of "nigger" don't actually like him though.
cartographer
Member
The hoops you gotta jump through to try to defend a viewpoint like this.
Well i was willing to give you the benefit of doubt but looks like I was mistaken.
Messofanego
Banned
For all the (especially white) people who try to rationalise it are also people who've used "nigga" in their language. They don't want to feel guilty for the word being in their speaking vocabulary.
These are the people who say "words are just words" (Faze Banks, famous gaming Youtuber):
He deleted all these tweets where he said "nigga" yesterday.
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