(Ars Technica) Loot boxes have reached a new low with Forza 7’s “pay to earn” option

Spartancarver said:
How have people still not figured out that adding paid loot boxes like this almost always alters the balance of unlocks across the entire game to make paying for them with real money an attractive option?

Hand-waving it away like this is beyond disingenuous
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Didn't they designed part of the economy to reward you for having more cars? The more cars you have the more they give you when you level up or something like that.

Simultaneously they made it more difficult to attain a lot of cars by limiting the credits system and VIP system.
 
tbh it didn't sound too bad at first... 'mods' sounded fine.

what kinda lost me was when i got the part where it says you can only get them from loot boxes :/

that said... sounds like a lot of games a la BF Hardline that have 'mods' you can use to get faster 'progression' in the next match

don't know I really care much myself though even when 'mods' are a core option (available by default) I'm not a fan. and technically this is still just speculation, i guess, right? i mean, the 'token' progression could still always end up pretty casual. maybe unlikely but not gonna pass judgement until it's actually 'live.'

TBH soon as they include loot boxes I'm already lost. I like old school style GT1 style progression. i wanna win races for cash and cars... whether they have mods or not it's still a lootbox game (which is fine) just once you're already at that point, i stop caring. mods or mods whatever, i'm just going to grit my teeth either way and enjoy the rest of the game. just like every other lootbox game i play lol.
 
MS continues to push increasingly scummy micro transaction methods in all their IP as part of their GAAS initiative. They keep getting more and more brazen with their implementations as time goes on. Each title seems to push the line of what's acceptable more and more. I honestly don't understand why more people aren't critical of this. If you don't speak up and make your criticisms and reservations heard they'll just be emboldened by each new iteration and continue to push and push with these mechanics.
 
etta said:
Cancelled the pre-order, all I do in Motorsport is Nordschleife in the rain, and that can wait until a Christmas sale.
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Ive played the shit out of Forzas, but feel a bit burned out and decided to hold off until the X release for them graphics. I was interested in pcars 2, but it apparently has issues like the last one. I still have my trusty codemasters f1 to have fun with.
 
D'ultimate said:
Didn't they designed part of the economy to reward you for having more cars? The more cars you have the more they give you when you level up or something like that.

Simultaneously they made it more difficult to attain a lot of cars by limiting the credits system and VIP system.
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And separated cars into tiers as part of that system, so that you'll likely need to blow a bunch of credits on cars you don't particularly want in order to unlock those higher tiers of cars. So that's an added time and credit sink.

I get that Turn 10 wants rare cars to feel rare, and to have a sense of reward and accomplishment when acquiring them, but I stop believing in game design-based justifications once I see those systems tied to microtransaction schemes.
 
I dont think I have problems with this for 2 reasons:

1) Tokens have been in Forza since Forza 4, I have never even thought of buying one.

2) Forza always throw lots of money, I always have like 10 millions on the bank, getting cars it´s quite easy so I would not mind to see a Forza where earn credits it´s a bit more difficult.

If the balance is bad people will complain and they will have to change it.
 
Been in Forza (in a form) for years.

Hasn't messed the game up or forced me to ever spend money. Haven't spent a dime and have yet to miss out on anything.

Based on past experience, there's ZERO problem with it and their article massive hyperbole (rolls eyes).
 
Don't hold your breath for U.S government to regulate this mess cause Trump era is all about helping businesses not the consumer.

Destiny 2 is guilty of this crap too however Ive gotten what I wanted (exotic sparrow and warlock armor) from free blight engrams given for ranking up so just stop spending extra money guys.
 
alr1ght said:
Government regulation can't come soon enough. It's up to you, Europe.
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I honestly think this is the only way to stop this crap. Its the closest to a form of gambling addiction ( especialy Fifa, nba and Cod)

The loot boxes/ pack openings etc are the death of fun gaming.
 
The government and Turn10 should team up and offer welfare tokens based on need and the rest of us good drivers can have credits deducted from our races to pay our fair share.
 
shandy706 said:
Been in Forza (in a form) for years.

Hasn't messed the game up or forced me to ever spend money. Haven't spent a dime and have yet to miss out on anything.

Based on past experience, there's ZERO problem with it and their article massive hyperbole (rolls eyes).
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Tokens have been around but they have changed the credit payout this time. The outrage to Forza 5 led them to roll back plans in that game, so I'm fine with people bitching.

If this is just hyperbole, then the fury will fade. If not, maybe they'll roll this shit back again.
 
shandy706 said:
Been in Forza (in a form) for years.

Hasn't messed the game up or forced me to ever spend money. Haven't spent a dime and have yet to miss out on anything.

Based on past experience, there's ZERO problem with it and their article massive hyperbole (rolls eyes).
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Oh look! It’s another one. You do need to at least read the OP for threads you post in. You really are supposed to do that
 
Neith said:
Because people don't want to pay premium passes for DLC this is what it will come to. And it will get even worse I am sure.

People bitch about Battlefield and how premium divides the player base.

It does, and they give you shitloads of content for that premium pass, and they also let your friends play that content with you for free. and it's even on sale after a while.

But no, give me schemes like loot boxes and 5 maps over two years because HEY the community is so awesome then and not divided or bored of the game. Just look at the wild success of Uncharted 4 and other AAA games that went the free maps route. SO MUCH CONTENT. And here we go with BOTH scheme now lol.

People are gonna bitch either way. Fuck it I don't care anymore. If this is what they want so be it.

The sad fact here is there is gonna be a season pass too I bet. There probably is one I have not checked.
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Are you serious? This game already has both a ‘car pass’ and a ‘season pass’. Yeah, you might want to check
 
cod-4-supplydrops.jpg


"You again? Hurry up m8 I'm buzy"

maxresdefault.jpg


"ma bookie, keel-ee calleya ku kah."

Seriously though if the crates get out of hand just don't buy the game
 
Gek54 said:
Read it, what do you think I am missing?
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They took away the ability to earn extra credits by removing assists and added in random loot box dropped ‘mods instead. They cut out yet another regular pair of the game and tied to micro transactions instead

Edit: Specifically this section,

Changing the difficulty or terms of a single race in exchange for a higher CR payout will sound familiar to Forza fans, because this used to simply be a standard thing you could do whenever you wanted. Players could manually add or remove certain assists—like "driving line" marks of where you should accelerate and brake—and get more CR per race for having fewer assists. That's no longer the case. You can still adjust the assists as you see fit, but you won't be rewarded for doing so... unless you have the right mod in your inventory.
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guybrushfreeman said:
They took away the ability to earn extra credits by removing assists and added in random loot box dropped ‘mods instead. They cut out yet another regular pair of the game and tied to micro transactions instead
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Yup, sounds fair to me.


I despised the VIP privileges of extra credits that came with my Ultimate FM6, I can't remember a time when I ever did not have millions of credits banked. Its why I went straight to the standard version of FM7 this time.

Another way to look at it is that it is not punishing casuals for needing driving aids.

cakely said:
Unwavering brand loyalty.
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My pre-demo posts would say otherwise.
 
Gek54 said:
Yup, sounds fair to me.


I despised the VIP privileges of extra credits that came with my Ultimate FM6, I can't remember a time when I ever did not have millions of credits banked. Its why I went straight to the standard version of FM7 this time.

Another way to look at it is that it is not punishing casuals for needing driving aids.



My pre-demo posts would say otherwise.
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What? They took away a feature the game used to have and all you’ve got is ‘looks fine to me’? Will you say the same thing next year when they take something else away as well?
 
Im so sick of loot boxes, cosmetics, or whatever bullshit you have to pay for. Stop putting content behind a paywall, especially if it was content that was previously available for free!
 
guybrushfreeman said:
What? They took away a feature the game used to have and all you’ve got is ‘looks fine to me’? Will you say the same thing next year when they take something else away as well?
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You know what they should fix, if you pick the female driver, the game should give you .77 credits for ever 1 credit that the male driver would earn. Trying saying Forza isn't a Sim after that.
 
Liliana Eileen said:
You know that stump you get around PL 260~ because of the soft cap? Yeah. Getting +5mods got me to break 290 PL first week of release...
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Why are you insisting that Destiny is worse than this?
You said that you passed the 'stump' in Destiny 2 within the first week.

And then you say you don't have any experience with recent Forzas:
Liliana Eileen said:
I haven't played Motorsport in a few years but I don't remember being showered in credits when I started off, neither. So what's the problem? That they have MTX and someone could theoretically not have to race as much as, say, you?
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So what are you comparing it to Destiny 2 for and why are you being so defensive of this games' mtx?
 
Gek54 said:
You know what they should fix, if you pick the female driver, the game should give you .77 credits for ever 1 credit that the male driver would earn. Trying saying Forza isn't a Sim after that.
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What an odd non-sequitur. I’ve got no idea what point you’re trying to make with that one
 
KyanMehwulfe said:
tbh it didn't sound too bad at first... 'mods' sounded fine.

what kinda lost me was when i got the part where it says you can only get them from loot boxes :/

that said... sounds like a lot of games a la BF Hardline that have 'mods' you can use to get faster 'progression' in the next match

don't know I really care much myself though even when 'mods' are a core option (available by default) I'm not a fan. and technically this is still just speculation, i guess, right? i mean, the 'token' progression could still always end up pretty casual. maybe unlikely but not gonna pass judgement until it's actually 'live.'

TBH soon as they include loot boxes I'm already lost. I like old school style GT1 style progression. i wanna win races for cash and cars... whether they have mods or not it's still a lootbox game (which is fine) just once you're already at that point, i stop caring. mods or mods whatever, i'm just going to grit my teeth either way and enjoy the rest of the game. just like every other lootbox game i play lol.
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Yeah I want to go back to when forza was all about starting in mid range cars and working and earning your way up to the big boys, having to tune and upgrade current cars to progress.

I actually play gran turismo 1 every year because I still find that game fun to play from a new save file, and to enjoy its music.
 
Liliana Eileen said:
You said it's only cosmetic items from bright engrams, and I proved you wrong. Now you're saying it's not a big deal because blues drop frequently and you can turn them to purples after PL 280...?
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You obviously didn't read my entire post because I stated this

staticneuron said:
People dong milestones right after hitting 20 basically kneecapped themselves. And mods from Bright engrams are rare unlike from gunsmith where you get them all the time.
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My point was...

staticneuron said:
The complaint about Destiny 2 is overblown and now to compare it to things that actually change gameplay by a great amount is just false.
.
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This is all in my original response to you. I stand by it. The amount of times you get a mod from bright engrams are so rare it really wouldn't change much. As I levels 3 characters to 300+ an got 2 legendary mods from them. They mainly drop cosmetic and comparing it to this system or any other ones that provide tangible gameplay changes is laughable. You don't need to rely on mods to get to 280 and you certainly don't need to rely on bright engrams.


Forza, 2K18, and others which make it a pain without them is not comparable.
 
I remember playing F6 and I remember the mods that added extra CR. Feel like this is the same thing as that was just that you can't get extra CR by adjusting difficulty. I would have to play the game to determine how detrimental it is to actual fun of the game tho.
 
I'm waiting for Warner or 2K to step up to that "hold my beer" moment.

Can there be a new low beyond this? "Unlock limited usage of your right analog stick's y-axis with a rare lootbox drop!"?
 
Estoc said:
I'm waiting for Warner or 2K to step up to that "hold my beer" moment.

Can there be a new low beyond this? "Unlock limited usage of your right analog stick's y-axis with a rare lootbox drop!"?
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I believe there was actually a game about that. DLC Quest I think.
 
I've played a ton of games with loot crates and never felt like any of them impacted me so I'm not particularly bothered but this either. If it ends up being an issue I'll just stop playing.

What is kind of interesting, is that Gears of War 4 had them and people complained but my friends felt like it was more incentive to keep playing than previous titles in the series. None of them ever bought crates but it keeps the carrot on a string strong.
 
Man alive some people just can't see what is right in front of them.

These aren't just cosmetics, these are gameplay mechanics that have been in numerous previous iterations of the game shifted from the game to loot boxes.

Not only that, but various systems have been altered to push these loot boxes.
 
Between this (mostly this) and the 100GB install size (I only have a 500gb ssd), I'll pass for now. I'll pick it up on sale later. Besides, I haven't finished horizon 3 yet by a long shot.
 
PrimeBeef said:
Honest question for my curiosity. What do you want developers/publishers(whoever makes this decision) to do? Obviously the cost of making games is getting out of hand. People seem to want unlimited support and constant delivery of features or installments completely free of charge which is impossible.

At first it was paid add-ons/expansion packs, then DLC/season passes. Now it's microtransactions/loot boxes. If a developer is going to support a game post launch for years afterwards, how should they pay for those expenses?
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Have you seen Overwatch?
 
Protip for publishers, make a great game and advertise it for NOT having lootboxes or season passes. You might make more money than if you put in lootboxes or season passes.
 
Kids come up on mobile games nowadays. They might think loot boxes are a great feature. Forza might be the racing sim or choice of the new generation thanks to loot boxes.
 
guybrushfreeman said:
Are you serious? This game already has both a ‘car pass' and a ‘season pass'. Yeah, you might want to check
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My point is that the outrage with BF1 is ridiculous. They don't have any schemes in the way of anything. Yes, you can buy boxes the prices are ridiculous and hardly any sane person does it and it's only cosmetic.

BF1 gives you a metric ton of content, and yet some of the same people are bitching endlessly about splitting up the community, and how we should all have free maps.

Reality check: free maps is a game like BF1 is gonna entail loot boxes and stupid shit like this. This is your money scheme. This is what it will come down to AND you will only get like 5 maps over 2 years lol.

And this is why I have no problem with BF1's model seeing as they provide premium passes to friends of season pass owners. Yet the same kind of ridiculous bitching keeps on and on.... it's like gamers don't know what they want anymore, and think somehow these publishers are going to shit out massive free DLCs for oh you know having a couple cosmetics for people to buy in game.

Welcome to the reality where not only do they have season passes they have loot boxes too. The worst of both worlds.

We have no idea what kind of bullshit they have in store for Battlefront 2, but I can already see the endless whining.

SkateorDi3 said:
Protip for publishers, make a great game and advertise it for NOT having lootboxes or season passes. You might make more money than if you put in lootboxes or season passes.
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This is like a protip from a failing economics major.
 
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