Gamernyc78
Banned
Don't be surprised if someone quotes your post in era with the comic and makes a big deal about it and says "omg gaf is so so baddddd, those assholes"
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Don't be surprised if someone quotes your post in era with the comic and makes a big deal about it and says "omg gaf is so so baddddd, those assholes"
Insane Metal
Member
Nickolaidas
Banned
XcloudTimdog
Banned
Xbox plan was 12 tflops from the start. Throw it out
Nickolaidas
Banned
Rightisright
Banned
Sure more info has leaked, but the 9.2tflop number was apart of the leak back in August, which they wouldn't have known unless they had the CU count.
Hawking Radiation
Member
G
Lol not surprised in the slightest. Resetera will get rid of you at the drop of a hat if you don't align with their political views.But leave it to ERA to make me look like a jackass.
Hawking Radiation
Member
And why is everyone suddenly jumping on the 'PS5 is weaker than Xbox Series X' bandwagon?
I mean we have certain insiders giving the power edge to PS5. So what gives?
transformer
Member
I'm expecting both consoles to be pretty close. I don't buy the PS5 ~9TF if the Xbox is targeting 12TF. Just pure opinion of course,
Fake
Member
Even ree/reddit is doubing this speculation, unless they want to invalid all devs saying the gap is close.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
They will be close.
Actually, data in repo says they are close. Closer then Xbone vs PS4, and even closer then Pro vs X. So, yea...close.
Hawking Radiation
Member
Klee and other insiders have said that nothing has changed since Xbox Series X reveal regarding the power differences. PS5 still has the edge.
Klee also recently confirmed on Era that he has the full specs of both machines and won't say what they are. For obvious reasons.
Thing is there is alot of conflicting information out there. We will be speculating right up until the PS5 reveal.
Good news is we have 2 months until we know.
vivftp
Member
I THINK WE CRACKED IT!
Howdy folks. A user on Era pointed out that the GPU being used in Github leaks for Oberon are pretty much identical to a 5700. Upon realizing this it all clicked into place for me. The unit being tested here must be the early low speed devkit Cerny showed off to Wired in April (the big silver tower) that was running a 5700 at high clocks to get as much performance out of it as possible. This explains why the unit in the Github leaks had no RT hardware and no VRS. It also explains why there were rumors going around GDC that the PS5 was 9.2 TF because that was the speed of the early low speed devkits up until that point
After GDC Sony began shipping out the new V shaped devkits and since then we've been hearing about a much more powerful PS5 from insiders, this seems to be the unit where all the current rumors stem from.
So basically, it looks like the Github leak was just using an early, low speed devkit that had a re-purposed 5700 as the GPU.
Comments?
Howdy folks. A user on Era pointed out that the GPU being used in Github leaks for Oberon are pretty much identical to a 5700. Upon realizing this it all clicked into place for me. The unit being tested here must be the early low speed devkit Cerny showed off to Wired in April (the big silver tower) that was running a 5700 at high clocks to get as much performance out of it as possible. This explains why the unit in the Github leaks had no RT hardware and no VRS. It also explains why there were rumors going around GDC that the PS5 was 9.2 TF because that was the speed of the early low speed devkits up until that point
After GDC Sony began shipping out the new V shaped devkits and since then we've been hearing about a much more powerful PS5 from insiders, this seems to be the unit where all the current rumors stem from.
So basically, it looks like the Github leak was just using an early, low speed devkit that had a re-purposed 5700 as the GPU.
Comments?
TeamGhobad
Banned
you cant just upclock a gpu and get more power it doesn't scale in a linear way. im sure somebody can post a Hz power wattage chart.
SportsFan581
Member
The good news all around is that these consoles look like they will be a much better value when they release in 2020 than the current gen was in 2013 (speaking performance per $). I'm sure MS is hoping and praying that there is power parity between the two systems, just because it increases the chances that both systems will have the same sticker price. LOL
Little Chicken
Member
We all deserve a Mass Effect trilogy remake on these next-gen beasts 
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Why would they go to the trouble of making an early APU just for temporary dev kits. At that stage of the game an alpha kit PC with standard parts would suffice.
And the 'low speed - high speed' thing sounds more like the jump from 1.8GHz to 2GHz to me.
And the 'low speed - high speed' thing sounds more like the jump from 1.8GHz to 2GHz to me.
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vivftp
Member
We're talking about a setup specifically configured by AMD for a big, loud devkit tower. What does it matter if it doesn't scale linearly? More power is more power.
Read it. Couldnt be more wrong.
Its like saying PS4 or PS4Pro dont exist because, in AMD test repo their numbers coorespond to 7870 and RX480. Just bizzare...
Fake
Member
AMD can't supply what not exist. Those first devkits probably used VEGA.
vivftp
Member
If I had to speculate, the early devkits could have still been using discrete components but they just configured it to make the system think it was an APU for testing and compatibility purposes.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Agree 100%
Shout out to
Mod of War
(s)he has done an amazing job in this thread of keeping the fanboy/girl nonsense in check without going crazy on the banhammer. If it was me I'd probably end up banning EVERYONE 
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yes, that is what I mean. It usually goes alpha kit (PC) > beta kit (console silicon) > final kit (revised console silicon)
So anything beta kit onwards is representative of the retail hardware.
vivftp
Member
Yet we know an early, low speed devkit exists and was in use when Cerny talked to Wired in April and these test are from around June. And we know a new V shaped devkit went out to devs just after GDC.
Can you come up with a better explanation that fits all the data including the multiple reports we've heard from insiders and journalists that indicate a PS5 with more power? Why does this devkit lack RT when we know RT is in the PS5's GPU?
It all fits with this theory.
Early kits, released in 2018, were almost 100% Vega based. So yea, after GDC, devs got their Oberons.
People dont realize...Its not that Oberon is 64CU chip clocked at 1.0GHz, its 36CU chip clocked at 2.0GHz.
Basically, any changes you wanted to do on logic side, that means materials and actual physical characteristics had to be done in summer at latest..
Summer of 2018 that is.
Rightisright
Banned
They will start to eat their own. They always do. These self imposed utopias never last. They are all putting up purity tests they themselves cant pass. (To quote Pete)
vivftp
Member
Didn't the Github leak indicate RDNA1 was being used? There was a lot of info being tossed around but I do recall people mentioning that.
Navi was announced to the public in the middle of 2019, meaning it had to exist in some way, shape or form well before that. Sony might have been able to secure some very early variants from AMD for use in their early devkits.
DrAspirino
Banned
Maybe...just maybe, Xbox series X reaches 12 TF because of its form factor?
I mean, if both consoles have similar APU and one is overclocked (XSX) and the other isn't (PS5), then it is no surprise that Microsoft would choose a form factor that allows far better cooling than a traditional console would, because it would be absolutely necessary for cooling an overclocked APU.
Or maybe it's the other way around: in order to keep the form factor slick and "console like", maybe Sony chose to underclock (and undervolt) the console so it doesn't get hot at all and allow for better reliability, at the cost of a somewhat reduced performance. Remember that the PS4, PS4 Slim and PS4Pro have awful cooling solutions and overheat like crazy.
I mean, if both consoles have similar APU and one is overclocked (XSX) and the other isn't (PS5), then it is no surprise that Microsoft would choose a form factor that allows far better cooling than a traditional console would, because it would be absolutely necessary for cooling an overclocked APU.
Or maybe it's the other way around: in order to keep the form factor slick and "console like", maybe Sony chose to underclock (and undervolt) the console so it doesn't get hot at all and allow for better reliability, at the cost of a somewhat reduced performance. Remember that the PS4, PS4 Slim and PS4Pro have awful cooling solutions and overheat like crazy.
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Rightisright
Banned
You are trying too hard. The evidence it pretty obvious. If Sony has done something different that is outside these GPUs then ok, but we dont know that. All evidence points towards a 9.2tflop 36 CU GPU. However if new evidence comes out, maybe from Sony themselves, then people will re address their views based on new evidence.
Ball is in Sony's court.
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XcloudTimdog
Banned
Do you believe that ps5 will be 36cu? Or we can deduct that from these leaks? Also where is everyone getting 56cu for Xbox Sx? Same leak. Thanks, enjoy your posts
No? There is no RDNA1 or 2 for consoles.
Console makers took building block from Navi and added AMDs roadmap features on chip. Thats why its called - custom.
RDNA1 and 2 will be 99% the same under the skin, but VRS and RT will come equiped + better thermals duo to node and process maturation. It same arch.
Its clear as a day that it is 36CU chip.
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SportsFan581
Member
In reality, anything is possible at this point. MS has actually never stated that Xbox is at 12TF, they said it had a GPU that was 2x more powerful than Xbone X. Maybe they think a RDNA 2 card at 8.5TF is equivalent to 2x the 6TF on the older architecture. In which case, both the 9.2 leak for PS5 and the rumor that it nudges past Xbox could both be true. I'd secretly love to see 12/13TF consoles, but we don't know for sure if that is the plan.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
My guess is -
Sony planned to launch 2019 at $399 - the time has been rumoured, and they also mysteriously skipped E3. The price is a likely one for mass market adoption. Also the 2 SKU Xbox approach makes the most sense if they fall either side of the PlayStation.
In the last year or so Raytracing has become the new hotness. Sony would have been without it if launching in 2019. So they delay a year. They don't have time to design a new chip from scratch (nor may they want to), but probably can add some RDNA2 features in the extra time.
The extra year also allows them to jump from 1.8GHz to 2GHz. They also have a cooling patent on how they may achieve this.
Similarly, they have extra time to focus on their SSD solution, which seems to have been the main buzz coming from Sony, not Teraflops or whatever.
This all fits with the timeline, leaks and other things we have heard. It's my best guess based on what we actually know.
Sony planned to launch 2019 at $399 - the time has been rumoured, and they also mysteriously skipped E3. The price is a likely one for mass market adoption. Also the 2 SKU Xbox approach makes the most sense if they fall either side of the PlayStation.
In the last year or so Raytracing has become the new hotness. Sony would have been without it if launching in 2019. So they delay a year. They don't have time to design a new chip from scratch (nor may they want to), but probably can add some RDNA2 features in the extra time.
The extra year also allows them to jump from 1.8GHz to 2GHz. They also have a cooling patent on how they may achieve this.
Similarly, they have extra time to focus on their SSD solution, which seems to have been the main buzz coming from Sony, not Teraflops or whatever.
This all fits with the timeline, leaks and other things we have heard. It's my best guess based on what we actually know.
Insane Metal
Member
How about we wait until the next leak. Calm the f* down guys lol.
XcloudTimdog
Banned
Interesting , thats what i have heard as well. I dont get how anything can be even touching 10 tflop.
Rightisright
Banned
Xbox will most likely be a 12 tflops RDNA GPU. If it's 56 CU, then it's going to be really easy to get 12tflops from that without going mental on the frequency.
To me it looks like Sony for next gen designed a system that was twice as powerful as their PS4 Pro, which is exactly what MS did going twice as powerful as the X.
Sony got wind of the new Xbox power levels and has tried to ramp up the frequency to reduce the gap. Whether this can be done without cooking a heap of consoles out in people houses where the console is sitting in places it cant get enough cool airflow through the unit is the big question.
vivftp
Member
All evidence? Please. This one Github leak points to that. All the evidence we have up until this point is to the contrary. That includes months of insiders and journalists saying they're hearing about a PS5 that's roughly on-par with Scarlett and some indicating it might be a bit higher. That's including Jason Schreier, Matt Piscatella, Tom Warren and Kleegamefan.
The only other things we ever heard to indicate a 9.2 TF console was someone mentioning they heard that figure at GDC, and that's easily explained by the fact that only the low speed devkits would have been handed out up until that point with the V shaped devkits going out afterwards.
Anyways, I fully agree we now need to wait for more information. I do think this is a very solid theory though and I'll choose to run with it until we hear otherwise.
They could, if they would raise the clocks 200MHZ more. It would be crazy good chip, especially for that size.
Problem is they have gone with 256bit bus and with fastest available memory next year these memory modules would still not bring enough BW for 10TF. So i think 512-576GB/s and 9.2TF for system is a lock. I predicted it almost year ago, but doubted TF / GHZ number as its pushing TDP heavily.
SportsFan581
Member
I would almost say that the two sku approach would work best if both were at equal price on the high-end. PS at $400 would make Lockhart a weak value (for only $100 or so more you can step to the full powered PS). If both the PS and Xbox are at $500 and Lockhart is at $300 or $250, even though it's much lower end, it's almost half the cost.
TeamGhobad
Banned
not always, cause then you will come to a point where you need 2x more power for just 10% more tflops. not worth it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Some of the headcanon in here is pretty amusing to read.
XcloudTimdog
Banned
If its indeed 36cu they can only do so much. Either we believe in this leaks, or we throw them out, thats for all of them. I highly doubt that tho. Arden was told to me to be in xbox code
vivftp
Member
It is indeed clear that it was a 36CU chip used in that particular test, yup. Think about it, if Sony needed AMD to kitbash together a powerful devkit roughly 2 years out from launch and AMD's preparing their new Navi chips then why not use those in the devkit until they can get a proper APU up and running for the next revision? So in the early low speed kit we see a 5700 equivalent chip that's been clocked higher for use in the devkit and it gets up to 9.2 TF. For the next devkit they're able to get an APU going that's closer to the final product and we now have the V shaped devkits.
As I said, it seems to fit the timelines and the rumors absolutely perfectly. Anyways, I'm not going to try and convince you. It's a theory that I like and will continue to run with until we hear something that negates it.
chemical boy
Member
But I have always been registered in Spanish-speaking forums using GAF as a source of information and I have some appreciation for this site.
vivftp
Member
It's a devkit, if they can clock it up to 2GHz to squeeze more power out of it then why not? The only objective is to squeeze more power out of this temporary early devkit until the next revision is ready. It's in a huge tower where it can be cooled out the ass and things like noise aren't a concern like in a typical home setup.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Well you can also say that if the PS5 is 400, you might as well pay an extra 100 and get the better Xbox. It all depends on how people see things doesn't it.
I think another reason for Lockhar's existence is xcloud. They can use that in the servers because they are primarily targeting phones and tablets where 4K is largely pointless. While they are at it they can do a cheap retail version at the same time to cover more of the market.
I'm just guessing for fun. But one thing for certain is that those Codenames and chip tests are heavily tied to both PlayStation and Xbox hardware. That is undeniable.
I think you do not understand the actual chip design process and how much time and money it takes to put such a big and fast chip on the market.
Look...they wont have specific chips just for dev kits. If that was the case, they could have used actual 5700XT GPUs and get on with it. But they didnt, they have been working on Ariel/Oberon for years. It is what it is. Oberon latest revision is from May, which tells you all you need to know really.
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