Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Doubtfull. Seems as if they are following the same PS4 design in that good balance of price VS performance.
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[Digital Foundry] PlayStation 5/ Xbox Series X New GPU Spec Leak Analysis: 9.2TF vs 12TF?
- Thread starter Bullet Club
- Start date
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
All together with a bit of "XSX seems even more of a monster than I though... but you got to ask yourself how can they deliver something so awesome at a price humans can afford" to be followed (when they announce the $399-499 range everyone expects) by a false shock and surprise and super hype preorder drive of sorts.
Is MS still providing them scripts and invites for exclusive deep dive interviews?
AnotherOne
Member
How dare DF make a video based on rumors and leaks.. how dare you DF destroy Sony fanboy dreams, when not long ago it was said ps5 was more powerful than scarlett.
A Most Virtuous Cat
Banned
I think even 9.2 tf will achieve 1080@60 fps with 2 ghz cpu. I have a theory that Sony will release a mid gen upgrade that will be better than Xbox SeX while MS is going all in on the first iteration of its nextgen flagship
Difference being MS won't be making the same mistakes this time around
Microsoft is and has been moving to "services", whether the console sells or not is not very material to them. They already have the most powerful console, even if nothing changes there, its unlikely to have any real impact, imo - the console market has sailed.
You're right though, they won't make the same mistake, they are making all new mistakes i.e. services. I do not believe all these services are going to work out, time will tell.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I do not think so, but it is one of these adhoc rumor's /F.U.D. theories spreading like wildfire as the next gen wars start :/.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
How dare DF make a video based on rumors and leaks.. how dare you DF destroy Sony fanboy dreams, when not long ago it was said ps5 was more powerful than scarlett.
Oh yeah, Richard L. writing what sounds like MS advertising (take the best MS rumours as facts and give a megaphone to the worst Sony rumours you find on the Internet). Hey, if this is the news you seek, you do you
.Sales of Xbox have been going down since the Xbox One X, the most powerful console has very little to do with anything, its only one factor.
My guess, the Switch will continue to outsell the Xbox SEX by 3-6 times and it will be less powerful.
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GymWolf
Member
I don't even know what are you talking about with that orbis-durango stuff so please let these fanboy bullshit out of the discussion to begin with.
My post would be the same even with ps5 at 15tf and series x at 5 tf, read my post hostory, i did compliments to microsoft various times for their 12tf beast before knowing that these are only rumors...and i'm not even interested in a xbox console because i have a powerfull pc to play multy games...
If they make a beast console with 12tf i can only talk good about M because i always hope for 1000 dollars beast console every gen...
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nowhat
Member
And accounts a few days old are so hard trying to make it significant, when there are very good technical reasons to dismiss it.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Well and it's not like $400 - $500 is that big of a difference anyway, it's a 5+ year investment. Not to mention with the Xbox you don't technically need to buy games right out of the gate, there's GamePass.
You could have your system for $550 out the door and a >$15 sub with access to a multitude of next-gen games all the while on the Sony side you're out $440 for the system plus $60 for every game you want, with 2 games purchases you have now overshot the cost of the Series X and GamePass.
FranXico
Member
He used the word "monster" every single time he mentioned "series X". Some people like to pretend he isn't biased because he has invariably always favored their favorite platform. Even in the Xbox One days.Oh yeah, Richard L. writing what sounds like MS advertising (take the best MS rumours as facts and give a megaphone to the worst Sony rumours you find on the Internet). Hey, if this is the news you seek, you do you
He has always done "good work".
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
If they can market this right this can be the ace in the hole but that won't be easy. They will need a super strong Day 1 line up to combat whatever Sony has cooking.
Journey
Banned
But then if that happens, MS will follow up with their own mid-gen refresh that's more powerful than PS5 Pro and will end the generation with the most powerful console... again!
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Oh absolutely, they will no doubt go over this at length.
Journey
Banned
When many sites were analyzing Orbis and Durango, I don't recall any outrage. The analysis and the leaks were welcome. I wonder why?
there is a LOT of evidence.. watch the video and you know why they are using these numbers
Whether MS has the most powerful console is pretty much irrelevant to the current market, which is why sales went down since the Xbox One X release - people moved on, they're probably not coming back. Which why MS was discussing getting rid of the hardware.
Most people are not going to switch back and forth, this is why MS exited other consumer markets that they were losing i.e. mobile phone, watches, etc.
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octiny
Banned
My guess is MS is waiting for the official PS5 spec reveal to get an idea of whether they need to uptick Lockharts GPU clocks or not, which is why we haven't heard much on it yet.
RDNA 2 will possibly bring it to One X GPU output but with massively improved 8/16 Zen 2 cpu & bandwidth (via reddit leak). It would be quite the diskless 1080P powerhouse bargain @ 249.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
A $349 Lockhart will be slaughtered by a $399 PS5, IMHO. Lockhart needs to be $200...$250 at most. And I still think it should be focused on as a streaming device primarily (for Xcloud), so 4TF RDNA 1 (with some RDNA 2 features) would suffice.
Even with the latest data coming out my #1 worry between any of the next-gen systems is Lockhart possibly holding back PS5 and especially XSEX if it is targeted as a base next-gen platform for local (non-streaming) gaming. I'd like to be proven wrong on that, though.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Look at the bill of materials, its a real stretch. That Sparkman APU is very large even at 7nm, yields probably wont be great.
CyberPanda
Banned
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
If Lockhart is anything above $299 its a mistake.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
It's funny watching some sony fans go from "goodie goodie, ps5 is going to be the most powerful goat" and then go to " hardware power is not that importantz its the games + price that matter the most"
Fanboyism is a mental illness some people need help.
A $399 9-10tflop would be great, so would a $499 12tflop machine.
Fanboyism is a mental illness some people need help.
A $399 9-10tflop would be great, so would a $499 12tflop machine.
Psykodad
Banned
And that is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier in this or that other thread.
If Lockhart is 4Tflop, PS5 is 9Tflop and XSX is 12Tflop, people are ignoring the fact that Sony would be safely in the middle.
And if price would reflect the differences, it could be:
Lockhart €299 - €350
PS5 €399
XSX €499
(going by potential numbers thrown around everywhere).
So even if the rumors/leaks are true, people are seriously overestimating Xbox as a brand and underestimating the average consumer.
We're also coming from install bases of 120+M (PS) and 45+M(Xbox), as well as Sony releasing some heavy hitters next year, so likely to have a stronger mindshare and a lot of momentum.
But somehow, the reasonable logic only applies to Xbox, because they're at both the bottom and top of the power spectrum.
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Jtibh
Banned
Df is back on track to push for microsoft.
Their last 4 videos and the last one with the ssd was all aboit microsoft.
This one is all about microsoft.
I like their comparison videos but i hate their specualtions.
Though i appreciate their efforts and it educates us about all the new tech i dont need them to make a video about every single rumor where is see a middle aged man looking marionette puppet flapping his hands vigorously repeating the word Unprecedented a 100 times.
Their last 4 videos and the last one with the ssd was all aboit microsoft.
This one is all about microsoft.
I like their comparison videos but i hate their specualtions.
Though i appreciate their efforts and it educates us about all the new tech i dont need them to make a video about every single rumor where is see a middle aged man looking marionette puppet flapping his hands vigorously repeating the word Unprecedented a 100 times.
Stuart360
Member
The past few weeks have been crazy on here, paranoia out of control. Its why i havent been posting as much, cant do with this shit.
eastwood333
Banned
I'm not even talking sells. I'm talking about 2013 mistakes like sacrificing power for kinect. Weaker console that cost 100 bucks more than the competitors more powerful box. The entainment,tv,kinect focus over gamming. The lack of 1st party. Different leadership etc... MS has addressed all of these issues.
I disagree. I think gamepass is a selling point. Xcloud,cross platform is good value. Sony is pushing PS Now more than ever,putting more games on PC, even putting future MLB The Show games on Xbox. I think MS is doing a great job drawing in as many people as possible to there ecosystem...draws more revenue.
But this is about hardware specs, not PR,sells,services. Wrong thread
eastwood333
Banned
I like the way you think
When DF says a game runs better on Sony hardware they're loved and promoted, when they say something good about MS they're a shill and alternate sources must be found!
And nobody cares... .sales are going down. All new mistakes.
Yet, sales have gone drastically down since Game Pass came out, revenues are down... they have had give it away.
This isn't even a real product right now, but there is no real demand for streaming.
Only 700,000 customers and they've had to basically reduce the price to basically nothing at this point $59.99-$79.99 during sales. Loser products.
I mentioned it in the context that they don't care about hardware sales because of services, my comments are on point astroturfer. Funny, how you say I am not on topic and than go on rant on all the services that really don't make money. If you were correct sales should be going up on hardware and going up on services revenue.... the financials show the opposite in gaming.
Microsoft doesn't care about hardware sales, which was my point. In the meantime, service revenue is actually not going up.
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eastwood333
Banned
Coming out of the gate next gen with a close 3tf power advantage will attrach the hardcore,who are usually the early adopters. A 299 Lockhart that can play all the big next gen games will be a big play too.
Nobody knows what will happen in the console space 10 yrs from now,but the big 3 will all be in on streaming and other avenues to reach bigger audiences...not just MS.
Journey
Banned
But don't omit that Phil Spencer discussed with Nadella about either dropping the hardware, or going "ALL IN" next gen. This might be what all-in looks like.
Also, no one is discussing anyone dropping either side, no one serious at least. My take is that initial purchases could tip the scales a little in MS' favor in a similar way that it did during the PS3 vs Xbox 360 days where Xbox wasn't even a contender with like 1/4 of the PS2 sales, to becoming a rival with 360, the screwing the pooch with Xbox One.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And vice versa.
One thing that did stand out this gen over last early on with Leadbetter articles when the PS4 came out ahead, there were throwaway sentences "but if your friends are on Live, or if you like one controller over the other"... were thrown in (that don't belong in a tech analysis). And they got called out for it by all sides.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Lockhart sounds straight-up like a mistake to me. I'm sorry but expecting devs to support an additional 2 SKU's, one way above, the other way below the incumbent market leader's offering sounds like a nightmare. Smaller devs have enough on their plates with a generational transition as it is without this sort of unneccessary complication.
Its existence sounds like a reaction to concerns about high entry cost on the series X and the realization that the presence of SSD based i/o makes the One X largely obsolete despite its performance elsewhere.
Stuart360
Member
Look at the abuse John got because he didnt bash Gears 5 enough. It nearly sent him over the edge.
No one seemed to have a problem with DF until the OneX released..
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
It's era which has the most crazy.
Quite a few There try and act like they don't want to dick wave with the most powerful console but it's so apparent that they will cry and meltdown if there console of choice is weaker, but act like it's not a big deal if it is, and if there platform is more powerful they rub it in.
These people are mentaly ill.
vpance
Member
Their speculation has been real bad. For a tech site they have as bad foresight as some randos on here and Era. They didn't see 12TF coming at all.
The most powerful console is only one of many factors, the Switch and the Wii outsold more powerful hardware. The hardware market moved on, kind of like the Windows Phone was to mobile, people probably aren't coming back.
Everyone would like to be in on streaming, there just isn't any demand for game streaming for obvious reason.... that is unlikely to change. Sony has been in the streaming space for testing and production for nearly 13 years, so what.
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
I think it makes sense on paper but I have to agree I don't know if the execution will go smoothly. The Lockhart does seem like a reaction to specifically price. They don't want to give up both cost and performance.
They can have the most powerful box but then they are beat on price.
if they match the PS5 on price and performance they don't have the mindshare to best Sony's first party at least yet. Depends on how their first party stuff goes now that they have doubled down on it.
If they are cheaper than the PS5 but at the cost of performance they will fall into a One situation where it doesn't have an "it" factor.
SO Lockhart seems to be be trying to take care of a lot of issues and on paper I think it makes sense, but will the consumers react accordingly?
They're a site who's entire existence is built on analyzing hardware, so of course they're going to favor the better performing piece of hardware.
SleepDoctor
Banned
Some fanboys are already taking this approach and nothing is even set in stone yet.
Talk about "damage control"
policestationx
Banned
Mental Ilness
eastwood333
Banned
You're coming across as a bitter, debby downer trying to downplay power now that the evidence is piling up. MS is doubling down on hardware (two skus). Do you think before you post. Again, nobody knows where console gaming will be 10 yrs from now.
And i frankly don't care what you think of Xbox services. I don't agree and stated why. I get you're trying to deflect power advantage narrative with doom n gloom Xbbox sells etc.... sells and such.
dolabla
Member
This will be disappointing if this turns out to be true. I'll end up with both anyways, but I want two monster consoles. Especially with Sony's first party studios and what they could do with similar specs to what the Series X will possibly have.
Microsoft and Sony are basically starting over when they launch the new consoles so whatever happened this gen (Microsoft getting their ass kicked) stays in this gen. Microsoft being able to say they have a pretty good power advantage over PS5 will be huge for them and could possibly make this more of a 360 vs. PS3 gen.
Microsoft and Sony are basically starting over when they launch the new consoles so whatever happened this gen (Microsoft getting their ass kicked) stays in this gen. Microsoft being able to say they have a pretty good power advantage over PS5 will be huge for them and could possibly make this more of a 360 vs. PS3 gen.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Which Sega console was 64-bit while Nintendo was 32-bit?
Are you thinking of the Atari Jaguar? Because clearly you did not do the math!
Whoa, Phil Spencer told DF that "they did the math" on Scarlet, Jaguar LIVES!!!
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