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[Thirty7ven]

What do you guys think?

Got every single fanboy talking point in there, down to the "My dad is rich!"

 

[CrysisFreak]

yea specially when you need to swipe ↧ ↘ ↦ in d-pad to do combos or moves under 0.5 second or less not even talking king or jack combos which have ↧ ↘ ↦ ↗ ↥ ↖ ↢ ↙ full circle to swipe for combos it's nearly impossible on x controllers because it need to have spaces between arrows rather then whole plastic d pad. analogs is out of question also unless you want to break your thumb.

Yeah. I bought a Switch Pro Controller a month ago for Smash. It's a great controller with some flaws (digital triggers for example) and when it comes to its d-pad yeah, you can flawlessly input 8 different directions but NO WAY IN HELL are you rolling between them. Not even 90 degrees. You're not.

 

[BattleScar]

Should be noted that using your financial muscle to enable predatory pricing is technically illegal.
I also very much doubt Microsoft will be willing to eat more than $100 loss per unit sold - 10 million units sold in 6 months would be a $1 billion dollar loss, and even if every single one of those units had a gamepass subscription, that loss would not be recovered.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

The whole fact that lockhart will be a thing is cause ms doesn't want to take loss on xsx hardware and undercut sony.

Maybe not undercut them, but definitely match them on price. So if the BOM of XSX is indeed higher, than they are taking a bigger hit

 

[Goncas2]

What do you guys think?

This guy dreams so much.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Very much that. I'd even say that Playstation might have relatively more money than Xbox. Think of their respective situations: Playstation is the workhorse of Sony, one of their most profitable businesses. If things go bad, they'll pump more money to turn tides, they have little choice. On the other side, Microsoft makes enormous amounts of money elsewhere* and the Xbox division is a small and risky business. If anything goes wrong, their higher execs will just snap fingers and sell out. just like they did with Nokia. That's why Spencer has to be cocky and have a plan. He has to be optimistic about future and promise heaven on earth to Xbox fans. If he fails this time, he'll probably lose his job.

*) I've read an article yesterday about the enormous push in cloud services we're just observing. Hundreds of millions of office workers switched from offline to online in a month. It's like Christmas for Microsoft, Amazon and Google.

Microsoft took a bath on the original Xbox, endorsed by mr Gates himself. They took another bath on the 360 with the RROd and amount of exclusive deals they pushed early on. Kinect was another big bet, which to date continues to be the Xbox's division biggest success story ironically enough.

The Xbox one always online, drm, cloud computing plan continues to be the only plan. All those things have in common the future goal of MS which is to be the main cloud services company in the world. This whole "The higher ups have our back now, we sit at the table" is just code for "Xbox is finally in line with the rest of MS" thanks to Gamepass and Xcloud.

This isn't bad news, it just doesn't mean what most people think it means. In fact the hardware itself has never been less important for Xbox.

 

[John254]

Microsoft took a bath on the original Xbox, endorsed by mr Gates himself. They took another bath on the 360 with the RROd and amount of exclusive deals they pushed early on. Kinect was another big bet, which to date continues to be the Xbox's division biggest success story ironically enough.

The Xbox one always online, drm, cloud computing plan continues to be the only plan. All those things have in common the future goal of MS which is to be the main cloud services company in the world. This whole "The higher ups have our back now, we sit at the table" is just code for "Xbox is finally in line with the rest of MS" thanks to Gamepass and Xcloud.

This isn't bad news, it just doesn't mean what most people think it means. In fact the hardware itself has never been less important for Xbox.

I'm cool with it. Gaming will be service driven, not "piece of plastic" driven soon and i would rather have Microsoft which will provide me game experience in the way i want, not in the way "you need to buy this box or else..."
I take XsX as a custom built stripped out PC, which is only for gaming and for people who don't want to game on PC. It's clear, because Microsoft doesn't care that their games are out on PC in same day as console.
But i don't expect Microsoft to stop producing hardware soon. As Spencer himself said, local gaming (meaning not cloud) will be always superior to streaming and streaming should be supplemental "when I'm not at home" way to game.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I'm cool with it. Gaming will be service driven, not "piece of plastic" driven soon and i would rather have Microsoft which will provide me game experience in the way i want, not in the way "you need to buy this box or else..."
I take XsX as a custom built stripped out PC, which is only for gaming and for people who don't want to game on PC. It's clear, because Microsoft doesn't care that their games are out on PC in same day as console.
But i don't expect Microsoft to stop producing hardware soon. As Spencer himself said, local gaming (meaning not cloud) will be always superior to streaming and streaming should be supplemental "when I'm not at home" way to game.

Microsoft cared, they just stopped caring once their software and hardware sales plummeted. And thyll care again if hardware sales pick up. It's a fallacy to think hardware sales don't matter as hardware sales lead to more maus ironically. And it's all good and dandy, all consoles at some point will provide the streaming future let's not forget it was Sony that initiated it so you'll be able to play wherever in the future.

What's important in this context are the games not where you can play them and if you don't have those must have games, you suffer. Which is why the gaming landscape is the way it is now. Doesn't matter how many ways you offer to play them the consoles with those must have games just do better.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I'm cool with it. Gaming will be service driven, not "piece of plastic" driven soon and i would rather have Microsoft which will provide me game experience in the way i want, not in the way "you need to buy this box or else..."
I take XsX as a custom built stripped out PC, which is only for gaming and for people who don't want to game on PC. It's clear, because Microsoft doesn't care that their games are out on PC in same day as console.
But i don't expect Microsoft to stop producing hardware soon. As Spencer himself said, local gaming (meaning not cloud) will be always superior to streaming and streaming should be supplemental "when I'm not at home" way to game.

It's not an either or scenario, and there won't be just one main option. The future is many services, many options. Valve, Epic, Sony, Nintendo, Apple, Google etc the ideal here is that it will expand the market.

You will be free to choose what you want of course, and it's cool that MS is bringing its games to PC already which hopefully will be followed by the others.

The point though is that the Xbox division itself is investing big on studios because either that division becomes big on the entertainment side of things (games) or Microsoft won't have any use for the brand, as they will be just fine being the service provider (cloud).

 

[FeiRR]

This isn't bad news, it just doesn't mean what most people think it means. In fact the hardware itself has never been less important for Xbox.

It isn't bad for Microsoft but what about gamers? Do you care for a rich company or yourself? I don't want to play streamed games even though I have fast Internet without caps. Even file sharing and instant messaging is lagged these days because of network overload. Quality of streaming went down, YT and Netflix look crap in dynamic scenes. I can't even imagine how Stadia works right now (I know, I know). You can't bend physics and make signals travel faster than light. You can't lay fibre cables in an instant. You can't put a datacenter every 100 miles away, those are huge investments.

Cloud computing may be great for crunching big data but it's not going to change gaming (development yes, that's a different topic though). The only games which can benefit from cloud storage are the likes of Microsoft Flight Simulator. It looks phenomenal, totally next-gen, lifelike. But you have to remember that it's very easy to predict what data has to be streamed down for such a game as planes fly slow and high. How much throughput capacity can you get from Internet, 50 MB/s with a 0.5 GB/s connection is very, very optimistic. It's exactly what HDDs in consoles have right now and what we want to depart from. Now we're talking about boosting those speeds 50, 100 times to change the paradigm. Gaming in the cloud is not the future, not yet and not for a long time. End-user clients (consoles and PCs) are still needed to process the data you download and turn them into realtime graphics in miliseconds. Unless you like Solitaire, then you're fine .

 

[xool]

wonder what kind of decor someone would have where that would fit in.

Someone who lives on an oil rig maybe.

The future is yellow paint. I know that now.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It isn't bad for Microsoft but what about gamers? Do you care for a rich company or yourself? I don't want to play streamed games even though I have fast Internet without caps. Even file sharing and instant messaging is lagged these days because of network overload. Quality of streaming went down, YT and Netflix look crap in dynamic scenes. I can't even imagine how Stadia works right now (I know, I know). You can't bend physics and make signals travel faster than light. You can't lay fibre cables in an instant. You can't put a datacenter every 100 miles away, those are huge investments.

Cloud computing may be great for crunching big data but it's not going to change gaming (development yes, that's a different topic though). The only games which can benefit from cloud storage are the likes of Microsoft Flight Simulator. It looks phenomenal, totally next-gen, lifelike. But you have to remember that it's very easy to predict what data has to be streamed down for such a game as planes fly slow and high. How much throughput capacity can you get from Internet, 50 MB/s with a 0.5 GB/s connection is very, very optimistic. It's exactly what HDDs in consoles have right now and what we want to depart from. Now we're talking about boosting those speeds 50, 100 times to change the paradigm. Gaming in the cloud is not the future, not yet and not for a long time. End-user clients (consoles and PCs) are still needed to process the data you download and turn them into realtime graphics in miliseconds. Unless you like Solitaire, then you're fine .

To me it means they have to spend a lot $ on actually making great games, and it means they expand delivery options. It's good, it means they want to be competitive where it matters.

The whole problem with Xbox vs PlayStation is believing that if one does something successfully then the other completely botched it. This shit ain't a football match.

 

[scie]

[...]
Cloud computing may be great for crunching big data but it's not going to change gaming (development yes, that's a different topic though). The only games which can benefit from cloud storage are the likes of Microsoft Flight Simulator. It looks phenomenal, totally next-gen, lifelike. But you have to remember that it's very easy to predict what data has to be streamed down for such a game as planes fly slow and high. How much throughput capacity can you get from Internet, 50 MB/s with a 0.5 GB/s connection is very, very optimistic. It's exactly what HDDs in consoles have right now and what we want to depart from. Now we're talking about boosting those speeds 50, 100 times to change the paradigm. Gaming in the cloud is not the future, not yet and not for a long time. End-user clients (consoles and PCs) are still needed to process the data you download and turn them into realtime graphics in miliseconds. Unless you like Solitaire, then you're fine .

Well for game streaming you don´t need a lot of data. You only need to stream the picture and the controller input. All rendering is done on the server farm. But the best exult and picture quality you will always get from a local console!
For me it is just another option, when travelling or being at a friends house with a different console. You just a need a streaming device like chromecast, Android TV or maybe Smart TV. With xCloud you don´t even need a Xbox controller, you can just use any bluetooth enable controller you want. Yes even a DS4!

 

[xool]

So many pages and PS5 design still mystery

Probably a lot like the controller.

Would be a massive oversight if they overlooked something like that. I'm sure they have SSD cooling handled. Will be interesting to see how they handle cooling the expansion bay.

Probably included in a bypass for the airflow. Room for small heatsink on the M2 drives too (if that's what they're using)

Do you think that the PS5's SSD will produce a lot of heat due to its high data transfer rate? Also, are SSDs typically able to maintain their maximum speed for long hours?

A couple watts, maybe even double digits. Write produces more heat than read I think though.

On the surface - you can tell he has a dog in the race. When IGN conducted this poll - you could tell by his facial expression that he was bothered by the result.

What do you guys think?

I think Ryan is an unapologetic xbox fanboy and I love it.

When the DualSense got announced he posted something on Twitter and quickly deleted it

Probably said it looked like ass before IGN told him to stop..

 

[joe_zazen]

Well for game streaming you don´t need a lot of data.

i thought stadia was using a lot of data. xcloud not the same?

 

[Evilms]

I don't even know where this is coming from.

it's nice to see so much naivety

 

[FeiRR]

To me it means they have to spend a lot $ on actually making great games, and it means they expand delivery options. It's good, it means they want to be competitive where it matters.

The whole problem with Xbox vs PlayStation is believing that if one does something successfully then the other completely botched it. This shit ain't a football match.

They want to compete with big data companies and entertainment providers at the same time. I say it won't work and I give my reasons. You say it will but the only argument you can think of is console warring?

Well for game streaming you don´t need a lot of data.

That's complete nonsense. Besides, I was talking mostly about input lag.

 

[xool]

This XSX dev is something.

pls stop linking that clown - it's embarrassing for us that even have a little soft spot for xbox brand.

 

[xool]

12 512 GB modules give 768 GB, not 825 GB tho.

768 GiB (binary) is 825 GB (decimal)

768*1.024*1.024*1.024 ..

[Sony uses decimal GB because Linux/BSD uses it; MS uses binary GB like on windows]

 

[MisterXDTV]

768 GiB (binary) is 825 GB (decimal)

768*1.024*1.024*1.024 ..

[Sony uses decimal GB because Linux/BSD uses it; MS uses binary GB like on windows]

Actually SSDs sizes are always expressed in decimal GB

1000 GB = 931 GiB
825 GB = 768 GiB

 

[LED Guy?]

Spoiler

Back from the dead, happy for you to be here Bo-Hazem boy! ❤❤❤❤

 

[Thirty7ven]

They want to compete with big data companies and entertainment providers at the same time. I say it won't work and I give my reasons. You say it will but the only argument you can think of is console warring?


That's complete nonsense. Besides, I was talking mostly about input lag.

What will work? I play PS3 games on PSnow and they work, but I meet the ideal conditions to be fair. But what will define if it works or not? What's your bar, 5 million, 10 million, 20 million subscribers? Or it will only work if it convinces you to use it? I don't pretend to speak for everyone, and more options for more people sounds like a good thing to me.

What about gamepass, that won't work? Why? It's a good option, and again how many subscribers does it need for it to work? If Xbox game studios start delivering that will be a big selling point for these services too.

Does any of this means Xbox will become the biggest gaming brand in the world? Extremely unlikely, I can't see Microsoft ever having the biggest brand in any type of entertainment, unless they buy it.

 

[Aceofspades]

I don't even know where this is coming from.

it's nice to see so much naivety

Its coming from someone's ass

 

[FeiRR]

i thought stadia was using a lot of data. xcloud not the same?

One hour of 4k Netflix at 24 FPS is 7 GB of data. If you go 4k@60 FPS (what we're expecting to be a standard next gen), you're looking at 15 GB of data an hour or more. You may expect similar values from all streaming services. If less, then quality suffers. Gaming is even more demanding than a typical series on Netflix. Think of most games as action films with fast frame changing scenes all the time (the highest data demand).

 

[B_Boss]

That's why Spencer has to be cocky and have a plan. He has to be optimistic about future and promise heaven on earth to Xbox fans. If he fails this time, he'll probably lose his job.

I would hope and pray that never happens. Something tells me that, in a hypothetical scenario (him getting fired, etc) he'd be perfect at Sony . Phil is awesome and I doubt MS would let him go but that's just me assuming.

yea specially when you need to swipe ↧ ↘ ↦ in d-pad to do combos or moves under 0.5 second or less not even talking king or jack combos which have ↧ ↘ ↦ ↗ ↥ ↖ ↢ ↙ full circle to swipe for combos it's nearly impossible on x controllers because it need to have spaces between arrows rather then whole plastic d pad. analogs is out of question also unless you want to break your thumb.

Absolutely perfect analysis here . I mean man do those arrow commands look beautiful lol. The PSX controller has always been pretty much for fighters especially if you don't have to use analogs.

 

[xool]

Actually SSDs sizes are always expressed in decimal GB

1000 GB = 931 GiB
825 GB = 768 GiB

No.

Not this again - you can't get 932 GiB chips they come in binary multiplies of 2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024 etc.

Xbox's 1TB is 1024GB (binary) - 1099GB decimal

Some manufacturer's quote free space, others quote total space. Sometimes they use decimal

But usually they use binary - eg a 320GB SSD is 20 x 16GB chips , "500GB" SSD is actually 512GB (2x8x256Gb binary) and so on

 

[joe_zazen]

I think Ryan is an unapologetic xbox fanboy and I love it.

I guess there is a certain entertainment value in a FOMO stoking fuckwit, rooting for a world conquering corporation. It is lessened for me by knowing that MS helps kill chidren by working with cia and us military and that they have a dreadful record when it comes to anti competitive, rent seeking behaviour, which makes life worse for most everyone else.

Nintendo fanboys are much easier to enjoy. In some ways, I envy them, lol.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

I would hope and pray that never happens. Something tells me that, in a hypothetical scenario (him getting fired, etc) he'd be perfect at Sony . Phil is awesome and I doubt MS would let him go but that's just me assuming.



Absolutely perfect analysis here . I mean man do those arrow commands look beautiful lol. The PSX controller has always been pretty much for fighters especially if you don't have to use analogs.

I wouldn't really want him at Sony. He's kinda....off. when I hear him speak he just sounds like an Android. He'd be better behind the scenes rather than out front imo

 

[scie]

One hour of 4k Netflix at 24 FPS is 7 GB of data. If you go 4k@60 FPS (what we're expecting to be a standard next gen), you're looking at 15 GB of data an hour or more. You may expect similar values from all streaming services. If less, then quality suffers. Gaming is even more demanding than a typical series on Netflix. Think of most games as action films with fast frame changing scenes all the time (the highest data demand).

On Google Stadias support page https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/9607891?hl=en

Options	Resolution	Data usage
Limited data usage	Up to 720p	Up to 4.5 GB/hr
Balanced	Up to 1080p	Up to 12.6 GB/hr
Best visual quality (Stadia Pro only)	Up to 4K	Up to 20 GB/hr

20 GB/hr is round about 44,5 Mbit/s and xCloud is currently limited to 720p which is 10 Mbit/s. Both are not that much and at least in my country 50-100 Mbit/s uncapped (we don´t have capped plans) data plans for land lines and cable are reasonably priced.

 

[Radical_3d]

So in your opinion they shouldn't allow a developer to announce their game because... I don't know. A few teenagers at some forum will throw shit at each other?

I doubt any teenager knows what a forum is. This is Generation X land.

 

[MisterXDTV]

No.

Not this again - you can't get 932 GiB chips they come in binary multiplies of 2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024 etc.

Xbox's 1TB is 1024GB (binary) - 1099GB decimal

Some manufacturer's quote free space, others quote total space. Sometimes they use decimal

But usually they use binary - eg a 320GB SSD is 20 x 16GB chips , "500GB" SSD is actually 512GB (2x8x256Gb binary) and so on

Why then, I have a Samsung 850 EVO that is 250 GB and on Windows is reported as 232.8 GiB???

 

[xool]

Why then, I have a Samsung 850 EVO that is 250 GB and on Windows is reported as 208 GiB???

That's after the data structures used to manage wear levelling been added to the SSD memory. It's just like how the directory listing takes up space on a old HDD, except it uses more memory, and is invisible (just like how my 64GB sd card only has 59GB after formatting even though it's empty)

eg https://www.anandtech.com/show/8747/samsung-ssd-850-evo-review/2 this version of the Samsung EVO SSD actually has 16 x 128 Gbit dies = 256GByte .. Samsung call their wear levelling structures "overprovisioning" ..

..both PS5 and Series X SSDs will be "overprovisioned" too - os both will have less than the stated amount available to store games.

[edit - if you right click on the drive in windows and select properties - it shows the exact amount of available data in bytes - that number doesn't lie (but doesn't include the "overprovisioning") ]

 

[Neo Blaster]

I assume you guys saw this:


So… the first footage ever of the PS5 is a remake and it's not even presented in a Sony event. Disappointing at least.

Where does it say it's running on PS5? It's 'next gen' footage, we don't know if this is running on PS5, XSX or PC.

 

[MisterXDTV]

That's after the data structures used to manage wear levelling been added to the SSD memory. It's just like how the directory listing takes up space on a old HDD, except it uses more memory, and is invisible (just like how my 64GB sd card only has 59GB after formatting even though it's empty)

eg https://www.anandtech.com/show/8747/samsung-ssd-850-evo-review/2 this version of the Samsung EVO SSD actually has 16 x 128 Gbit dies = 256GByte .. Samsung call their wear levelling structures "overprovisioning" ..

..both PS5 and Series X SSDs will be "overprovisioned" too - os both will have less than the stated amount available to store games.

Yeah I made a mistake I should have written 232.87 GiB

Still Samsung, the main brand for SSDs, uses decimal on the box

 

[chemical boy]

From what a developer friend told my brother, we are going to see important differences in RT. It says that Xbox is a beast.
Of course I fully trust my brother, who as I said a while ago is a developer of mobile games, he does not work with consoles, but he has a friend who is doing a multiplatform title.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Finished this dark and moody game on PS4 PRO. Can't say differences are obvious in this video apart from the seemingly locked 60fps. But it is just a port.

Character models are pretty ugly even for current generation, I almost thought it was a last gen game poorly remastered. It seems dev just upped res and fps to 4k60 and added some free DLC, this won't go well among gamers considering they'll charge for something both consoles will do for free using enhanced BC.

 

[Neo Blaster]

What do you guys think?

Interesting, looks like he thinks Sony is the only company affected by the pandemic, no one else is having trouble with manufacturing, supply chain, distribution and prices.

And the 'MS is filthy rich' point again?

What a douche.

 

[Radical_3d]

Where does it say it's running on PS5? It's 'next gen' footage, we don't know if this is running on PS5, XSX or PC.

In the title of the video.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Where does it say it's running on PS5? It's 'next gen' footage, we don't know if this is running on PS5, XSX or PC.

It's unknown:

System Redux will be heading to "next-gen consoles", which it seems reasonable to interpret as PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X (there's no explicit mention of a PC version, so we'll need to wait and see on that front), in "holiday 2020".​

Source: EG.

 

[Aceofspades]

What do you guys think?

That's the guy who said 720p is enough for TVs? 1080p is overkill and there is no difference?

Welcome to the new age Journalism, FACEPALM

 

[Neo Blaster]

I think he's pointing out to now having the proper backing of the CEO and CFO which they might not have had in 2013.

Shareholders usually don't like to loose money. Remember, MS got the dough, not Xbox division.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Because the first footage of PS5 is not what you have posted, Observer System Redux, but this one:

Spoiler

And if you want to look deeper into the topic, this one:

I'll have to play devil's advocate here, didn't they say this was PC footage?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Are any of the legit insiders here still active? It was said a new PS5 dev kit went out a month or so ago and that it even looked quite different than the grey/black one we have already seen.

On the MIC site today a new item was added that could be this new revision of dev kit (model numbers are EGR-TA09BK series, EGR-TA13BK series or EGR-TA18BK series) .

Maybe an insider could get a contact to check the model number on the back to confirm or even get us a picture to see how different it is!?

I'm so bored on lockdown....

 

[Neo Blaster]

Are any of the legit insiders here still active? It was said a new PS5 dev kit went out a month or so ago and that it even looked quite different than the grey/black one we have already seen.

On the MIC site today a new item was added that could be this new revision of dev kit (model numbers are EGR-TA09BK series, EGR-TA13BK series or EGR-TA18BK series) .

Maybe an insider could get a contact to check the model number on the back to confirm or even get us a picture to see how different it is!?

I'm so bored on lockdown....

Nope, after the deep dive insider debacle looks like everyone is off radar.

 

[bhunachicken]

I think that the virus and the upcoming global recession are going to be huge factors in how well these two machines perform.

£500 for a console will (weirdly) be seen as steep by people, even if they're spending more than that annually on a phone contract; a console will keep going for 5+ years.

I'm still thinking that the PS5 will be £399, though.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Nope, after the deep dive insider debacle looks like everyone is off radar.

Yeah I noticed after official info started to drop then so did the insiders.....Tumbleweed around here since!

 

[SlimySnake]

Are any of the legit insiders here still active? It was said a new PS5 dev kit went out a month or so ago and that it even looked quite different than the grey/black one we have already seen.

On the MIC site today a new item was added that could be this new revision of dev kit (model numbers are EGR-TA09BK series, EGR-TA13BK series or EGR-TA18BK series) .

Maybe an insider could get a contact to check the model number on the back to confirm or even get us a picture to see how different it is!?

I'm so bored on lockdown....

There are no legit insiders here.

 

[Shmunter]

There are no legit insiders here.

They are nowhere to be found at this time to be honest.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

I'll have to play devil's advocate here, didn't they say this was PC footage?

There's some leaked gameplay footage.

And you're right, it's from a year old PC build:

Hey everyone! We can confirm that the circulating trailer is year-old PC footage used as part of an internal presentation. ​

Source via IGN

 

[Thirty7ven]

From what a developer friend told my brother, we are going to see important differences in RT. It says that Xbox is a beast.
Of course I fully trust my brother, who as I said a while ago is a developer of mobile games, he does not work with consoles, but he has a friend who is doing a multiplatform title.

Ray Tracing will scale in the exact same way as the rest of the compute units. So again, you drop the rez on the PS5 version and voila.