DrKeo
Member
Not really, or at least Tim Sweeney never said it so I guess you have a different source than Tim. Tim talked about the PS5's I/O VS PC, but he only talked about PS5 because it was sponsored by Sony.
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Kazekage1981
Member
MSFT needs to show its own Unreal Engine 5 demo whether from first party or third party
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I would be shocked if they don't. I just hope they don't wait until July for it.
Would be really great to compare the two demos
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
If the quote that it is impossible without sony breakthroughs is real. That seems clear. It can even run on mobile scaled down
The cpu is about as powerful as they come. 1440p does away with bandwidth bottlenecks. It runs off of ssd not disc drive.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
No man, they need to show games. They already did the whole path tracing Minecraft thing.
Let's just move on ahead, new stuff please.
Wouldnt tim sweeney saying it wouldn't be possible without the breakthroughs sony have made(those breakthroughs will be exclusive to the ps5) imply that version of the demo is only possible on the ps5.
DrKeo
Member
No one is saying the quote wasn't said, just that certain people are taking it out of context considering Sweeney wasn't allowed to talk about the XSX because it was a Sony sponsored reveal.
Kazekage1981
Member
Your right, Tekken 8, and the next Soul Calibur, Ridge Racer on Unreal Engine 5.0 with Raytracing!
mm...delicious!
Killer Sakoman
Member
No, elementaldemo was shown on PC first.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Out here spreading theories now. This wasn't sponsored by Sony, where are you getting this shit from?
After GDC Epic started working on this demo and collaborated with Sony. That's what we got. Considering what they showed, it seems to me the PS5 strengths were optimal to what they wanted to show.
Tim ain't out here doing marketing for the PS5, don't spin it that way.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
Does 8K textures mean you get the most out of them on an 8K TV or will it look the same on a 4K TV since that is where the resolution is set?
T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
Good point, I think it's the reason why Sony went with a highly clocked GPU because it would compliment the blazing fast I/O really well. That's some of it in a nutshell and RedGamingTech released a video today and he stated that according to his sources the PS5's CPU will feature some sort of unified cache features which is not available on Zen 2 but will be on Zen 3, this custom CPU feature will significantly reduce the latency in the CPU caches. This may have been what Sweeny meant when he said the PS5 will be "well balanced". Truth is I don't even know what that means but RedGamingTech seemed pretty hyped about considering his an Xbox apologist Lmao
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BadBreathOfTheWild
Member
Any demo that needs to be putting more than 4.8GB/s into RAM won't be possible on XSX. The question (to which only Epic know the answer) is how many GB/s of data was being transferred into RAM during the flying sequence of this specific PS5 demo? (Assuming sequential read for simplicity)
3GB/s?
4GB/s?
4.79GB/s?
5GB/s?
6GB/s?
7GB/s?
8-9GB/s?
If it was well under 4.8GB/s then has Cerny and Sony overspent? Have they invested huge cost into something pointless? Was Sweeny wrong to call PS5 well balanced and god-tier IO? Is it overkill and pointless IO?
XSX and PS5 can both do things the other cannot. This demo was clearly made to stretch PS5, so I have doubts that the same detail at the same speed would be possible on lesser IO.
I think their Nanite technology could be scaled to match the IO, and a similar technology demo on XSX could have perhaps had less detail, but higher resolution and maybe nicer reflections on the water etc.
I'm sold on both XSX and PS5 for different complimentary reasons, but today has made me more hyped for PS5 than I have been.
Sweeny kept coming back to IO—just as all devs seem to—and PS5 IO is in a class of its own. XSX's is mid-tier PC NVMe at PCIe 3.0 speeds.
3GB/s?
4GB/s?
4.79GB/s?
5GB/s?
6GB/s?
7GB/s?
8-9GB/s?
If it was well under 4.8GB/s then has Cerny and Sony overspent? Have they invested huge cost into something pointless? Was Sweeny wrong to call PS5 well balanced and god-tier IO? Is it overkill and pointless IO?
XSX and PS5 can both do things the other cannot. This demo was clearly made to stretch PS5, so I have doubts that the same detail at the same speed would be possible on lesser IO.
I think their Nanite technology could be scaled to match the IO, and a similar technology demo on XSX could have perhaps had less detail, but higher resolution and maybe nicer reflections on the water etc.
I'm sold on both XSX and PS5 for different complimentary reasons, but today has made me more hyped for PS5 than I have been.
Sweeny kept coming back to IO—just as all devs seem to—and PS5 IO is in a class of its own. XSX's is mid-tier PC NVMe at PCIe 3.0 speeds.
8k textures were needed for lossless detail, basically what you see is what you all the time. It never changes it always looks the same no matter how far or how close you get.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I use 4k texture packs for my 1440p gaming all the time. No need for an 8k TV to see the difference of 8k textures.
DrKeo
Member
Seriously? Nothing said about the XSX or PC during the demo? Only talking about the PS5? Tim Sweeney saying he isn't allowed to share comparisons with the XSX version? Where do you think this is coming from, Epic's big heart and generosity trying to hype up the PS5 and PS5 alone?
It means the resolution of the textures is 8192x8192. If the game allows you to get close enough, even 16K textures will look blurry, it's a different space than the screen resolution. But having 8K textures is totally amazing.
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Killer Sakoman
Member
As far as I understand, High end PC can run it even better because they benefit from huge system ram that can be utilized. You can put 32 gb to 64 ddr4 and stream all these assets to the gpu.
Kazekage1981
Member
The PS5 demo was beautiful, but I need to understand something (applying to PS5 only):
1) How can the game run at 4k? What compromises would there have to be?
2) How can you increase the frame rate from 30 fps to 60 fps? What compromises would there have to be?
1) How can the game run at 4k? What compromises would there have to be?
2) How can you increase the frame rate from 30 fps to 60 fps? What compromises would there have to be?
DrKeo
Member
1) More GPU power.
2) More GPU power (I doubt the demo is CPU bound).
I wouldn't be shocked seeing this demoed on Ampere very soon running at 4K native. Maybe even tomorrow at the NVIDIA event.
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Stuart360
Member
They also said it would be possible on current gen, and look 'comparable', their words.
You know everytime Microsoft announces a console, and they have that highlight reel of people like Todd Howard etc blowing smoke up the consoles arse?, why do you think they do that?, do you think it could be because Microsoft 'asked' them to? wink wink. Its obvious there is some kind of marketing deal or something between Epic and Sony, hense why they wouldnt really touch on XSX or PC when discussing this demo.
Kazekage1981
Member
So all them "triangles" and "level of detail." What if Sony uses something equivalent to VRS/Mesh Shaders? Why 1 triangle for 1 pixel?
I'm sure they said whilst UE5 can be used on current gen certain features will be scaled back or not have access to. The 8k textures for one is something current gen will not do along with the fully dynamic real time GI that's a hybrid between ray tracing and normal GI
You're leaving out one important thing and that's Sampler Feedback Streaming hardware. Even if the XSX is only able to push 4.8GB/s I/O bandwidth, it can have a multiplier effect(2-3x) of between 9.6GB/s to 14.4GB/s by using SFS. That's actually the XVA's killer feature, not even BCPack. So it can stream the equivalent of what an SSD of 9.6GB/s streams(i.e the PS5) or even higher. I'm sure and hope Sony has employed some techniques for efficient texture streaming that could improve this but I highly doubt it will reach the level of XSX due to the custom hardware.
Thirty7ven
Banned
They mentioned PS5 twice in the video. Intro and once during. In the interview he talked about PC.
He said he wouldn't offer performance comparisons. And he shouldn't because MS is also a partner and it would make zero sense to say anything that could be blown out of proportion. This is Tim Sweeney, he ain't here to help you in console spec wars.
The demo was real time. He says the PS5 ssd/Io which was a massive aspect of what was being shown, is far ahead of anything in the market and will be the highest performer come fall. And you want him to go out there and say what? Engage in console wars?
Sponsored lol, where was the Sony logo? The PlayStation logo? Somebody from Sony? None, zip, nada. It's a real time gameplay tech demo and obviously the big question was always going to be "What's it running on?" The point was to promote U5 for next gen.
And yes U4 had a demo on PS4 after it had one on PC, and well of the consoles the PS4 was certainly the more performant one so it wouldn't make any sense to choose the Xbox one to showcase it. Same case here, you certainly can get a PC with ssd/Io comparable to XSX so it wouldn't make sense to pick the XSX over a PC would it?
Aka you trippin, accept that for the purposes of what they wanted to showcase the PS5 was the optimal platform and move on.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
The WCG article is still up
www.windowscentral.com
I dunno why they deleted the tweet but that isn't proof of anything. No idea why people are running with that.
Unreal Engine 5 footage ran at 1440p 30 FPS on PS5, featured no ray tracing
Today, Epic Games showed off a demo for its next-gen gaming engine, UE5.
www.windowscentral.com
I dunno why they deleted the tweet but that isn't proof of anything. No idea why people are running with that.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
This is funny
The guy asked for sources. You provide the sources and instead of commenting on point he made a bunch BS up to support a hilarious theory without providing any proof.
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Lethal01
Member
Microsoft you fucking idiots, if you think you can do better with Unreal Engine 5, then show it, instead of this horseshit right here:
That looked fantastic though, wonderful blender of stylized cellshading with realistic world.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
The article says though the xbox has 2 to 3 tflop more its unclear if thered be an advantage. IIRC. That disclaimer was not in the tweet.The WCG article is still up
Unreal Engine 5 footage ran at 1440p 30 FPS on PS5, featured no ray tracing
Today, Epic Games showed off a demo for its next-gen gaming engine, UE5.
I dunno why they deleted the tweet but that isn't proof of anything. No idea why people are running with that.
B_Boss
Member
Are you assuming that it was a trick to hide loading? I'd be interested in knowing how we know there was loading. That almost sounds like the very thing Cerny and Crew we're trying to eliminate when engineering the PS5 but I could be wrong here.
Tiago07
Member
I was thinking here,
If the games made for PS5 uses the SSD to use higher resolution assets and higher graphics fidelity. And this is possible only because of the SSD.
Is possible to PS5 games (even in 30fps) look better than PC Ultra settings ?
I mean SSD in PC have some bottlenecks, and probably the companies like Nvidia, Amd and Intel will need to making solutions for that.
(The idea can be utilized for XSX even at a certain point)
If the games made for PS5 uses the SSD to use higher resolution assets and higher graphics fidelity. And this is possible only because of the SSD.
Is possible to PS5 games (even in 30fps) look better than PC Ultra settings ?
I mean SSD in PC have some bottlenecks, and probably the companies like Nvidia, Amd and Intel will need to making solutions for that.
(The idea can be utilized for XSX even at a certain point)
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
The demo can run in other platforms like mobile and ps4. That may be there to benefit such platforms.
Geometry is solved they said any additional geometry wouldnt meaningfully contribute to visuals. Texture wise is likely similar. This is essentially unlimited detail.
Nextgen pcs might benefit from raytracing, Higher res and higher fps.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
I don't think it had anything to do with load times but rather to demo how her hand touches the door as she passes through it since that is what was being talked about at the time.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yep. MLB The Show was using 3,072x3,072+ textures for their uniforms all the way back on the PS3 from my time at the studio.
So that's why even back then you can pause the game go to a replay, zoom in all the way and they were super detailed down to the threads.
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Lethal01
Member
If there were no bottlenecks it would mean that you could render absolutely anything.
The point is that before, the SSD ended up being a bottleneck extremely often.
DrKeo
Member
1 triangle for 1 pixel is the perfect image polygon-wise, once you hit 1 polygon per pixel, that's it, perfect detail, the most your screen can show. Obviously it's a waste to actually use 1 polygon for each pixel on screen, not 100% of the screen will be 1 polygon per pixel. Actually, even in the demo, when they color-coded the polygons, you could see areas that aren't 1 polygon per pixel. But that's OK, doing 1 polygon per pixel on the whole screen is a waste. GPUs actually hate 1 polygon per pixel, their best performance sweet spot is 1 polygon per 4x4 pixels.
Dude, are you seriously that naive that you think this showing wasn't a coop with Sony?
Rusco Da Vino
Member
No man, it not me saying that, it is Tim Sweeney, Epic Games founder & CEO
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
No man, it not me saying that, it is Tim Sweeney, Epic Games founder & CEO
ehhhh, I don't think he meant the demo is literally impossible on XsX.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It still blows my mind to wrap my head around after gaming for well over 30 years, that they can finally drawn a polygon in a single pixel.
DrKeo
Member
We've finally arrived at an era where we don't see polygon edges anymore.
Dargor
Member
Read what I'm saying next not as some tech guy, but as someone who has played alot of games with mods on pc.
In my experience, higher resolution textures actually works great on lower resolutions than what they are made. Obviously an 8k texture will look absolutely amazing on an 8k screen, but on a 4k one or even a 1080p one, it gives it quality look, an extra definition, its very nice.
It can almost look out of place, at times. For example, in skyrim modded, some of the texture pack upgrades makes things look very weird, in a strange good and bad, sharp way. I know, confusing, but it truly is like that, at least for me. YMMV.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Once EPIC decided to pick the PS5 for the demo of course it became a collaboration. Absolutely.
But what you were saying was that it was sponsored, and that there was no reason for the PS5 being picked to showcase these specific aspects of U5. You're basically saying Sony paid for this without anything to back it up. You got nothing.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
No man, it not me saying that, it is Tim Sweeney, Epic Games founder & CEO
Wait, so this is the actual quote
Games Dean
Member
Sweeney said they worked with Sony to optimize the engine for the PS5 but that's not the same as them sponsoring the video. You accuse him of being naive but you're be purposely ignorant. If this thing was a real deal sponsorship as you're touting it, Sony would have been hyping up the event ahead of time and posting it on their socials afterwards. NONE of which they did. Outside of Herman Hulst (who would have NOTHING to do with any potential "sponsorship" with Epic) even commented on it.
And before you start, yes I also believe this demo could have been on XSX (albeit optimized for it's specific advantages). Stop pushing this sponsorship/marketing theory. It has no evidence and it's disingenuous.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Ascend
Member
People are speculating too much, and additionally forgetting a few things. The PS5 has a faster SSD than the XSX, sure. But if SFS works as advertised, you'll only need to fetch the parts of textures that you actually need, rather than the whole texture. If that is true, you will not need as high a speed as the PS5 SSD to reach the same result. Then there's the compression, the difference in bandwidth, the difference in GPU power... There are simply too many variables to be calling any victories here.
More importantly, people are forgetting that this is a multi-platform engine. Why would they optimize for a single platform only? And the engine isn't even done yet. It's going to be released in late 2021 (preview version in early 2021). This is all about the engine features, not the PS5. That they can run like this is a big achievement of the engine. There is nothing to compare the PS5 to, until the engine is shown on other platforms in comparison.
Marketing-wise, Sony has got the upper hand now. But that's another story.
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No man, it not me saying that, it is Tim Sweeney, Epic Games founder & CEO
Tim Sweeney and Epic's Chief Technical Officer say it would run on a RTX2070 and a standard SSD.
So for decades CPU/GPU has been what drives gaming graphics and gameplay , all of a sudden Sony marketing dreams up SSD magic sauce and everyone is claiming SSD is now what drives gaming graphics and game play. Amusing to say the least.
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Ascend
Member
Unclear. Breakthroughs compared to what? The PS4? The general way of doing things previously? The XSX also does breakthrough things. Don't forget that both the XSX and PS5 are using hardware from the exact same vendor; AMD. The details may vary slightly.
Let's just say that I find it quite peculiar, that when it comes to TFLOPS, everyone wants to pretend the difference is minimal and won't matter, but when it comes to the SSD, suddenly the difference is night and day, even though compared to HDDs, the difference between the PS5 and XSX is a mere 1% at most.
HAL-01
Member
To think unlimited detail was so easily achievable with these new consoles, I wonder if Guerrilla or any other of sony's first parties already arrived to a similar solution with their own engines, considering the PS5 seems to have been specifically designed with this in mind.
Or better yet, considering sony worked closely with Epic they could already be using this tech
Or better yet, considering sony worked closely with Epic they could already be using this tech
Shmunter
Member
No doubt. Cerney and all top devs including Sony first party held hands like it's a spring fiesta in designing this console.
When we see a next gen reveal by Sony, expect to be even more blown away. They would not have agreed for epic to steal all the thunder, even if it feels like it for now.
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