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[Makoto-Yuki]

it could be CGI footage video running on the console media player and technically it would still be "running on PS5"

I'll wait until i see actual gameplay footage before getting too excited.

 

[longdi]

Heres the trailer again



the first 50 seconds are CGI. After that it's all ingame cutscenes. Even the last part. Just look at it at 4k and u'll see a lot of issues that cgi would easily mask such as aliasing, low textures, etc. Hell, even the thumbnail clearly shows that its ingame.

The final scene with the dragon is realtime, im sure. I see the usual low polygon shimmering.

As compare with the CG intro here

 

[SkeletonQuays]

Sorry, but only ratchet and Horizon seemed to look next gen. How can anyone be impressed by demon souls?
The event was a huge let down

Those were likely the only titles shown developed exclusively for next gen. This happens with every new console generation usually the first year is all current plus next gen games aside from first party exclusives... takes a year or 2 to really start seeing the goods.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

You can't tell the difference because it's PS5, bbycakes.

Sorry, but only ratchet and Horizon seemed to look next gen. How can anyone be impressed by demon souls?
The event was a huge let down

You can't be serious, Horizon was one of the least next gen looking games, it looked more like the original game than it having the crazy lighting effects the other games had.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I see the usual low polygon shimmering.

Yep.

 

[Jon Neu]

So what? Wouldn't be the first time. Remember the Killzone 2 trailer?

Remember the MOTORSTORM trailer?

That was the most deceptive shit ever.

 

[Gamernyc78]

So what? Wouldn't be the first time. Remember the Killzone 2 trailer?

Thts like the only Sony game you can mention tht was over a decade ago and ended up being better in certain areas and one of the best looking games that gen and rated definitely smashed every other fps graphically notjing came close smh.

 

[Jon Neu]

ALL of it looks in-game.

Little bit off topic.

Do you think the Horizon Zero Dawn trailer was in game?

 

[Gamernyc78]

You can't tell the difference because it's PS5, bbycakes.


You can't be serious, Horizon was one of the least next gen looking games, it looked more like the original game than it having the crazy lighting effects the other games had.

OH you cappin lol go watch that 4k trailer again.

Btw the problem is Horizon Zero Dawn looks next gen in its own right and is the best looking or at least in top three this gen. So thts not taking away from Horizon Dawn 2 looking similar obviousy it's a sequel but also improving. Tht shit looked sublime.

 

[NXGamer]

I can't be the only one to see great disparity between certain scenes in the trailer, right? The trailer opens up with a remake of the original intro, and graphics quality looks pre-rendered. Then it cuts to a black screen and into the gargoyles and the graphics look pretty good, but clearly real-time and not mindblowing. Then it cuts into the final scene with the dragon god and it looks like CG again...

What in the goddamn...


EDIT:

VFXVeteran weighs in on the topic:

It's NOT Pre-rendered, this is real-time.

 

[Gamernyc78]

It's NOT Pre-rendered, this is real-time.

Ok I see you can't wait for your takes. I look forward to it.

 

[spawn]

I think it was in game cutscenes

 

[Grinchy]

I feel like maybe a couple people who "weren't impressed" by the visuals of these game reveals are also in here thinking that this game's in-game graphics were CG because they looked too good to not be CG

 

[DeepEnigma]

I feel like maybe a couple people who "weren't impressed" by the visuals of these game reveals are also in here thinking that this game's in-game graphics were CG because they looked to good to not be CG

Funny, that.

 

[Ascend]

Heres the trailer again



the first 50 seconds are CGI. After that it's all ingame cutscenes. Even the last part. Just look at it at 4k and u'll see a lot of issues that cgi would easily mask such as aliasing, low textures, etc. Hell, even the thumbnail clearly shows that its ingame.

Nah... Even the first 50 seconds appear to be real-time. I can't explain why, but that's what it looks like to me. If it was CGI, it would look different. Something about it screams real-time (or at least in-engine) to me.

 

[yurinka]

Real time or pre-rendered? That's the question.

There's no point of putting a pre-rendered CGI because there's no loading times to hide and the console already show CG like cutscenes as this game, Horizon II shown, GT7 or Ratchet shown.

At the start of the video appeared a message saying that the game game footage was going to be captured from PS5, matching the rumor that said that Sony bosses didn't want target demos/CGs/in-engine stuff running on NASA PCs.

If games like Horizon or even the UE5 demo were showing 'CG tier' stuff in real time, I don't see why a remake of a PS3 game should be able to do the same, when it's going to be way less constrained in the gameplay side, which means they can put more effort in the visual side. And the cutscenes/CGs from the early PS3 era now are something way doable in real time, or at least something most users will see as something even cooler than the old CG.

 

[Jtibh]

Hellblade 2? I definitely disagree there. But don't get so caught up in the cutscene. It's not going to look like that while playing the game.

Now you are talking good stuff here.

Tell me about horizon 2. Was it realtime?
That scene alone with the crabs was way too clean for realtime

Tell me.

You think if its realtime did we hit the ceiling with its visuals or you think there can be more forced out of the console with its midd tier gpu

 

[Cyber_hunter026]

Saw "VFXveteran" lost all credibility this thread did.

 

[luca_29_bg]

As someone who's worked in game development: it's likely that some parts simply have gotten more time and polish than others. Especially for a trailer.

So this water is rendered in real time ? O___o

 

[yurinka]

Now you are talking good stuff here.

Tell me about horizon 2. Was it realtime?
That scene alone with the crabs was way too clean for realtime

Tell me.

You think if its realtime did we hit the ceiling with its visuals or you think there can be more forced out of the console with its midd tier gpu

What do you mean with 'too clean'? It's a cutscene with two crabs and a fish with the backgound blurred due to depth of field. Nothing special there.

 

[Jtibh]

What do you mean with 'too clean'? It's a cutscene with two crabs and a fish with the backgound blurred due to depth of field. Nothing special there.

Yes too clean.

Or the fox scene?
The question is was everything realtime or not??

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

In my professional opinion and looking at CG and working with it for over 20yrs this entire trailer is NOT pre-rendered. There are just too many things that an offline renderer would get right that this trailer lacks. This is an real-time in-engine cutscene. I would be shocked if it was CG and not in a good way but in a bad way at the company that would have made such bad renders.

The big give away is the FX. The fire looks horrible for CG and the clouds on the ground look very similar to what Batman AK did with it's volumetric smoke. CG fog and smoke done with Houdini would look drastically better.

Have you seen the screenshots?

Also, the trailer shouldn't be judged as the final product of the game because Sony alreafy confirmed that each trailer was rushed to make it before the event deadline.

 

[yurinka]

Yes too clean.

Or the fox scene?
The question is was everything realtime or not??

Please can you elaborate on what do you mean with 'too clean'? If you do so we may be able to explain to you if it can be done or no in real time or if it's something that can only be achieved with CG.

Some parts of the video seem to be cutscenes running on real time in the console (the traditional ones that in the past were using specific assets or lighting for cutscenes), and other ones seem to be that 'light cutscenes' using the gameplay assets (like the one showing the mamooth or when Aloy is riding far from the camera).

I think they will be able to achive the stuff we seen in the game running cutscenes in real time. Maybe not at native 4K or not at 60fps, but I think it's doable. Specially by guys like Guerilla, who like Naughty Dog or Sony Santa Monica are always pushing the limits of how good things can look in games.

 

[Ascend]

So this water is rendered in real time ? O___o

Is there something particularly special about the water? Does it seem like a huge leap over these...?

 

[the_master]

Please can you elaborate on what do you mean with 'too clean'? If you do so we may be able to explain to you if it can be done or no in real time or if it's something that can only be achieved with CG.

Some parts of the video seem to be cutscenes running on real time in the console (the traditional ones that in the past were using specific assets or lighting for cutscenes), and other ones seem to be that 'light cutscenes' using the gameplay assets (like the one showing the mamooth or when Aloy is riding far from the camera).

I think they will be able to achive the stuff we seen in the game running cutscenes in real time. Maybe not at native 4K or not at 60fps, but I think it's doable. Specially by guys like Guerilla, who like Naughty Dog or Sony Santa Monica are always pushing the limits of how good things can look in games.

Not sure if it is real time or not, but in the image there seems to be a wave folding, something you don't see in generic water.
Also the foam looks dense and amazing.
Pretty impressive if it is the in game water, and a hint of what is to come.

 

[Niked]

You can't tell the difference because it's PS5, bbycakes.


You can't be serious, Horizon was one of the least next gen looking games, it looked more like the original game than it having the crazy lighting effects the other games had.

I understand why you disagree and I can agree to a large extent. The thing that put it over the edge was the wide landscape scene she rode through. That looked great.

 

[Ar¢tos]

So much overthinking going on in this forum lately...

 

[Swadedtx]

So this water is rendered in real time ? O___o

So that broken structures dont look last gen?

 

[VFXVeteran]

Heres the trailer again



the first 50 seconds are CGI. After that it's all ingame cutscenes. Even the last part. Just look at it at 4k and u'll see a lot of issues that cgi would easily mask such as aliasing, low textures, etc. Hell, even the thumbnail clearly shows that its ingame.

Are you the developer? Do you have any proof of such a claim?

 

[VFXVeteran]

Now you are talking good stuff here.

Tell me about horizon 2. Was it realtime?
That scene alone with the crabs was way too clean for realtime

Tell me.

You think if its realtime did we hit the ceiling with its visuals or you think there can be more forced out of the console with its midd tier gpu

Yea, HZD2 was realtime cutscene too.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Listen guys.. none of these cutscenes make the CGI quality threshold. They are all done in realtime. No company is going to mix and match realtime with CGI. It's just dumb. It's either all CG or all realtime cutscenes.

Don't get caught up into the cutscenes. They are just cutscenes. I don't want you guys in graphics threads posting pictures of cutscenes to make an argument. That's super lame as the gameplay is what's truly indicative of what the console can do.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Listen guys.. none of these cutscenes make the CGI quality threshold. They are all done in realtime. No company is going to mix and match realtime with CGI. It's just dumb. It's either all CG or all realtime cutscenes.

Don't get caught up into the cutscenes. They are just cutscenes. I don't want you guys in graphics threads posting pictures of cutscenes to make an argument. That's super lame as the gameplay is what's truly indicative of what the console can do.

They are both "capable" of what the console can do if the cut scenes are running in real time like ND/SM and others are doing now, and not videos like the gens prior.

 

[MoreJRPG]

"In-engine" footage is a lot different from "in-game" footage. I definitely think there was a good amount of in-engine footage there that will never actually make it to the game but it doesn't appear to me like there was any CG except one instance. The only part that looked unbelievable to me was when the hand was crushing the castle, that looked pre-rendered.

 

[VFXVeteran]

They are both "capable" of what the console can do if the cut scenes are running in real time like ND/SM and others are doing now, and not videos like the gens prior.

I'm saying that metric is a false positive. Don't use it for judging graphics tech. A lot of current gen cutscenes look very similar to these.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

The screenshots look sick anyway. This is going to be incredible. After taking 24 hours to absorb the presentation and rewatch the easy allies reaction I am now properly hyped. Launch year is never truly great but as I said before I never made the jump to a pro and only recently got a nice big 4K TV so even going to 4K will make a difference for me. Where da fuck the preorders at Sony, take my money.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm saying that metric is a false positive. Don't use it for judging graphics tech. A lot of current gen cutscenes look very similar to these.

Nah. Not in the overall package. Well, meaning games shown like Horizon, R&C and even that Kara one. Higher rez textures, soft shadows and lighting, impeccable IQ nearly zero aliasing even in gameplay shots.

It's not strictly gameplay that shows graphical capability of systems can draw the scenes in real time.

 

[Jtibh]

I'm saying that metric is a false positive. Don't use it for judging graphics tech. A lot of current gen cutscenes look very similar to these.

What do you think can we expect in the future and by that i mean will we have a big leap in visuals from lets launch titles to tlou2 or you think given how easy it is to develop for ps5 are they already close of what can be squeezed out of the console

 

[VFXVeteran]

What do you think can we expect in the future and by that i mean will we have a big leap in visuals from lets launch titles to tlou2 or you think given how easy it is to develop for ps5 are they already close of what can be squeezed out of the console

Yea, I think they already will be pushing the hardware with games on release. There really is no tricks or secret sauce that's yet to be discovered. I've said all along that these consoles (both of them) are pretty low-end with regards to power. A lot of people thought that the CPU will make games look and play significantly better than current gen. The problem is that most games are GPU-bound and not CPU bound. We are seeing the faster CPU but it doesn't seem to matter much.

 

[ZywyPL]

Never forget:




It's 2020, people are still falling for the "running on" or "captured directly", seriously? I know people want to believe, that this, this is the moment games will reach CGI level, that this generation will finally allow that, but the moment the publishers avoid showing the actual gameplays it becomes obvious it's not going to happen.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Are you the developer? Do you have any proof of such a claim?

Are you the developer to prove me wrong? What kind of childish question is that? We're all stating opinions here.

edit: the difference between the first scenes and the last ones are fucking night and day and inconsistent as hell. Look at the grass detail, the draw distance, no shimmering, no aliasing, no lower res textures, the fact that the sun transitions smoothly, how that scene where huge shadows fall over land nicely, and many other things that won't be in-game. Also the fucking fact that the first 50 seconds are a homage to the original intro. I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we all could be wrong. No idea why we are even debating such a dumb ass thing. Game will look great either way and even if it wont be like the trailer /screens for some reason, its a souls game, no one plays Souls games for the graphics.

 

[Sagii86]

Yea, I think they already will be pushing the hardware with games on release. There really is no tricks or secret sauce that's yet to be discovered. I've said all along that these consoles (both of them) are pretty low-end with regards to power. A lot of people thought that the CPU will make games look and play significantly better than current gen. The problem is that most games are GPU-bound and not CPU bound. We are seeing the faster CPU but it doesn't seem to matter much.

Highly disagree. We haven't seen a proper use of Unreal engine 4, not to mention 5.
There are alot of in-house engines using custom meshes and PBR material yet to be seen.
The order 1886 first tease shown 6 months after the first PS4 showcase.
We will get a "clear picture" by 2022.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Gameplay was the beautiful thing of SONY's presentation

 

[Nickolaidas]

You can't be serious, Horizon was one of the least next gen looking games, it looked more like the original game than it having the crazy lighting effects the other games had.

Pretty sure I've never seen underwater screenshots like that on my Pro.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Highly disagree. We haven't seen a proper use of Unreal engine 4, not to mention 5.
There are alot of in-house engines using custom meshes and PBR material yet to be seen.
The order 1886 first tease shown 6 months after the first PS4 showcase.
We will get a "clear picture" by 2022.

There really is nothing that we haven't seen on the PC. Maybe custom meshes, but I don't think that's going to be as a significant jump from the RT that we've been seeing. A lot of these companies have had the PS5 for years now.

What PBR material have we not seen yet?

 

[Sagii86]

There really is nothing that we haven't seen on the PC. Maybe custom meshes, but I don't think that's going to be as a significant jump from the RT that we've been seeing. A lot of these companies have had the PS5 for years now.

What PBR material have we not seen yet?

Not getting into PC vs world argument with you again since it's clearly not what I meant.
In regards to UE, 4K -8K Photogrammetry has not kicked in yet alongside hand sculpt assets & meshes. If you want an examples you should take a look on my previous "Next gen" posts. There is alot more to be shown and it's way too early to judge at this point.

 

[JLB]

Could it be possible that it was just an inengine cutscene?

If they did that they could give the visuals a boost which is common with many games like UC4 for example.

I mean, thats cheating. It is supposed that footage would be playable. If not, its just video that can be played anywhere.
Anyway, I dont think anything was fake on demon soul's presentation.

 

[EDMIX]

Listen guys.. none of these cutscenes make the CGI quality threshold. They are all done in realtime. No company is going to mix and match realtime with CGI. It's just dumb. It's either all CG or all realtime cutscenes.

Don't get caught up into the cutscenes. They are just cutscenes. I don't want you guys in graphics threads posting pictures of cutscenes to make an argument. That's super lame as the gameplay is what's truly indicative of what the console can do.

Agreed. Not many games even do that anymore, its just too costly having different assets and a separate team doing all this CGI work etc. I recall Kojima talking about that years ago on why he didn't do CGI and why he respected how Rockstar did the GTA games, something about the player staying immersed.

 

[Garjon]

People saying that next gen footage looks like cgi are getting me quite amped for next gen

 

[VFXVeteran]

Not getting into PC vs world argument with you again since it's clearly not what I meant.
In regards to UE, 4K -8K Photogrammetry has not kicked in yet alongside hand sculpt assets & meshes. If you want an examples you should take a look on my previous "Next gen" posts. There is alot more to be shown and it's way too early to judge at this point.

Fair enough. But realistically, what do you think the rendering limit will be with a GPU that does ~9TFLOPS on average? This is a hard limit. While there are several things that can be implemented into games, there are limits (i.e. resolution of both textures and final screen resolution as well as FPS) at which they can be done.

BTW, EA has Battlefront for photogrammetry so it's been seen already and nothing new.

 

[Sagii86]

Fair enough. But realistically, what do you think the rendering limit will be with a GPU that does ~9TFLOPS on average? This is a hard limit. While there are several things that can be implemented into games, there are limits (i.e. resolution of both textures and final screen resolution as well as FPS) at which they can be done.

BTW, EA has Battlefront for photogrammetry so it's been seen already and nothing new.

Surely there are constraints, they are not defined by what you call "teraflops", More like the tools available that can ease the process in production. FYI - never said photogrammetry is "new", there is quite a difference between 2k photogrammetry and 8k as a base. That will massively impact the environment in future titles.