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[bender]

People like to ignore that concept and artbooks exists for Demon's Souls and they probably aimed to closer capture the original concepts than what was in the game.

Here is the one that came with the North America Deluxe Edition:

 

[GametimeUK]

But the screenshots polygon budget seems lower than the Boletarian Palace scene on PS3 so I don't get what you're saying. Most of the polygon budget seems to have been spent on the dead bodies because that was more important for the scene in the screenshot.

To be fair we are way off my original point anyway. It's irrelevant as to why Boletaria looks the way it does on the PS3. Ultimately that's how the world is and the Remake looks completely different and not true to the original.

 

[hinch7]

Not a fan of some of the changes done but the guy is being super hyperbolic to the point of nit-picking every last detail. Granted From is GOAT'd when it comes to dark, gothic artstyle and some of the changes do have impact on the tone of it.

Whats does irk me though is how dark they've made the game in the remake. The lighting does need to be turned up a notch with much more filled out area/and or probe lights.

 

[Bernardougf]

Go play Final Fantasy 7 remake and than comeback to Demons Souls.. it will feel like Beethoven just wrote the 5th all again.

 

[leo-j]

Disagree, game gave me a nexgen wow when I played it, it’s still imo one of the best looking games ever, and is a generation ahead of Elden ring visually. It’s also beautifully dark and amazing. They captured the dark souls vibe really well.

 

[Muddy]

Yes if you consider the shit filter of the original as art.

 

[LRKD]

PS fans: Video games are art!!! Take our movie games seriously >:-(


also PS fans: nooooo games aren't artistic, they are products to be repackaged and sold, without any care for artistic merit.

 

[od-chan]

Go play Final Fantasy 7 remake and than comeback to Demons Souls.. it will feel like Beethoven just wrote the 5th all again.

This is an all around awful comparison lmao. FF7R surely has issues, but the project itself is just on an entirely different scale (and quality), seeing how they had to re-imagine these PS1 chibi characters into something actually decent. It's more akin to RE2make (which again, also has issues, but is also rightfully beloved by fans).

Add to this the fact that you can buy the original FF7 without any issues on pretty much any modern platform, where as the original Demon's Souls faces the very real threat of being locked away on PS3/Emulator-Jail.

 

[fallingdove]

PS fans: Video games are art!!! Take our movie games seriously >:-(


also PS fans: nooooo games aren't artistic, they are products to be repackaged and sold, without any care for artistic merit.

What?

It must be fun to play pretend.

 

[Boss Mog]

Demon's Souls remake is fine.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This is an all around awful comparison lmao. FF7R surely has issues, but the project itself is just on an entirely different scale (and quality), seeing how they had to re-imagine these PS1 chibi characters into something actually decent. It's more akin to RE2make (which again, also has issues, but is also rightfully beloved by fans).

Add to this the fact that you can buy the original FF7 without any issues on pretty much any modern platform, where as the original Demon's Souls faces the very real threat of being locked away on PS3/Emulator-Jail.

I agree with you in principle, but have to disagree with the actual content of what you said.

There was always concept art of characters in FF7 and there was a long line of material for Compilation of FF7.

Part of the reason I don't like the remake and am not super interested in rebirth is the dismissal of the American voice actors whereas the Japanese voice actors were invited back. Felt like a fuck you to fans who had supported the compilation of FF7 all these years and it would be one thing if I thought it was an improvement but it wasn't.

That's the thing with remakes, if you don't like them, it's easy enough to just not buy them or wait to buy them at a discount depending on your interest level.

 

[od-chan]

Part of the reason I don't like the remake and am not super interested in rebirth is the dismissal of the American voice actors whereas the Japanese voice actors were invited back. Felt like a fuck you to fans who had supported the compilation of FF7 all these years and it would be one thing if I thought it was an improvement but it wasn't.

Oh I think it's going to be difficult for us to find common ground on this, because for all I care, they could've saved the money for an english dub all together and it would actually improve the product. And yes, I'm dead serious.

That's the thing with remakes, if you don't like them, it's easy enough to just not buy them or wait to buy them at a discount depending on your interest level.

Yeah absolutely. If Sony would just re-release the OG Demon's Souls it would already appease a lot of the criticism, since then both versions could happily co-exist and fans could enjoy the best of both worlds.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Oh I think it's going to be difficult for us to find common ground on this, because for all I care, they could've saved the money for an english dub all together and it would actually improve the product. And yes, I'm dead serious.

Sometimes I elect to play games in the original Japanese dub, but I've listened to the American cast across compilation and Kingdom Hearts for 20 years... Steve Burton was Cloud Strife as recently as 2018... It was wild for them not to bring them back for this game. Something happened between 2018 and 2020.

Yeah absolutely. If Sony would just re-release the OG Demon's Souls it would already appease a lot of the criticism, since then both versions could happily co-exist and fans could enjoy the best of both worlds.

Only in the minds of a select few. In reality they'd have to port the game and no one would actually buy it.

 

[farmerboy]

I'm convinced that half the people complaining are wannabe chin stroking "critics" that probably couldn't spell "artistic merit".

Game looks, plays and sounds unbelievable.

Alright, alright. I'll concede that maybe it doesn't sound as good

 

[Bernardougf]

This is an all around awful comparison lmao. FF7R surely has issues, but the project itself is just on an entirely different scale (and quality), seeing how they had to re-imagine these PS1 chibi characters into something actually decent. It's more akin to RE2make (which again, also has issues, but is also rightfully beloved by fans).

Add to this the fact that you can buy the original FF7 without any issues on pretty much any modern platform, where as the original Demon's Souls faces the very real threat of being locked away on PS3/Emulator-Jail.

No matter how much you love this monstrosity, Its a perfect comparison of really butchering the original source material into something almost unrecognizable if not by the name and some characters.. its an all time classic turned into this dogshit bate and switch action pseudo-sequel that its only a ff7 remake on name alone.

Demons souls is the exact same game with a little different art and music.

So play the frankstein "remake" from square to see a real disaster and comeback to Demons Souls.

Point still stands.

 

[brenobnfm]

No matter how much you love this monstrosity, Its a perfect comparison of really butchering the original source material into something almost unrecognizable if not by the name and some characters.. its an all time classic turned into this dogshit bate and switch action pseudo-sequel that its only a ff7 remake on name alone.

Demons souls is the exact same game with a little different art and music.

So play the frankstein "remake" from square to see a real disaster and comeback to Demons Souls.

Point still stands.

I'd say both games were butchered in different ways, but at least FFVII remake/rebirth was made by most of the same people and the original is preserved with modern versions.

 

[Bernardougf]

I'd say both games were butchered in different ways, but at least FFVII remake/rebirth was made by most of the same people and the original is preserved with modern versions.

The importance of the original being preserved is that people can always comeback and play FF7 again in the future as many still do and will do... since its the infinitely better version of the game and the true classic ... almost nobody will play classic demons souls instead of the remake going forward ... I think this speaks for itself.

If FF7 remake was a demons souls type of remake ...almost nobody would be going back to play the old version. In fact FF9 remake (their next game) if given a choice I would bet the majority would vote for an "demons souls" remake and not what SE did with FF7.

But this topic is about demons souls so I'll see myself out for now.

 

[Orbital2060]

You can say that to games like RE4 and FFVII, if you dont like remake you play the original because they are available EVERYWHERE.

Thats not true for Demon's Souls....if you no longer own PS3 or it broke down you have no way of playing original game.

I still got the JP disc I got at launch, but no PS3 at the moment. I guess its easy to buy one relatively cheap?

Disc is still in good condition, but if its fucked, there is no way to buy it digitally cos the PS3 store was closed down wasnt it?

 

[Three]

To be fair we are way off my original point anyway. It's irrelevant as to why Boletaria looks the way it does on the PS3. Ultimately that's how the world is and the Remake looks completely different and not true to the original.

not really, because my response to it was that it looks the way it does due to the low polygon budget of the hardware at the time and not because it is somehow better artistically. The scene isn't really ruined by a better more detailed palace with a higher polygon budget.

 

[Three]

There are only two ways to solve these arguments:

1. A blessing and/or praise from Miyazaki himself on the remake, during an interview(or behind the scenes footage of this).

He's already given it and said the original game was a rough game with a rough development yet some obsessive fans will still see that as the "perfect version" no matter what.

 

[Tomeru]

Ah, another expert opinion.

 

[GametimeUK]

not really, because my response to it was that it looks the way it does due to the low polygon budget of the hardware at the time and not because it is somehow better artistically.

Can you explain to me the reason as to why it matters? Silent Hill had fog originally as a way to get around tech limitations. Should we remove the fog now? All games are designed around the technology available at the time.

The fact is the architecture of Boletaria in the Remake has departed from the original design. Whether somebody is arguing if it's better or not is irrelevant. It's your opinion think what you think.

There's a lot more changes to Boletaria in the Remake than the polygon budget.

 

[Three]

Can you explain to me the reason as to why it matters? Silent Hill had fog originally as a way to get around tech limitations. Should we remove the fog now? All games are designed around the technology available at the time.

If graphically you don't add more details that weren't previously possible then what is the point of a remake? If you look at the original Boletaria concept art for DeS it looks nothing like DeS PS3. So clearly not because that's how they wanted it to look but because what was in the concept wasn't possible at the time. Miyazaki himself even said that it was exciting to see Bluepoint research and do things that they couldn't do at the time.

The fog in SH2 added to the atmosphere and was in fact a gameplay mechanic and relevant story scene. Removing fog would be stupid. Adding details to a palace while maintaining the same atmosphere is not.

The fact is the architecture of Boletaria in the Remake has departed from the original design. Whether somebody is arguing if it's better or not is irrelevant. It's your opinion think what you think.

Which itself had departed from lore and concept art due to technical hardware capability and budget. Point is that a better detailed palace isn't a big deal that ruins some setting or atmosphere, that remains intact. Unlike the removing fog in SH2 example which would have meant story and atmosphere changes.

 

[GametimeUK]

If graphically you don't add more details that weren't previously possible then what is the point of a remake? If you look at the original Boletaria concept art for DeS it looks nothing like DeS PS3. So clearly not because that's how they wanted it to look but because what was in the concept wasn't possible at the time. Miyazaki himself even said that it was exciting to see Bluepoint research and do things that they couldn't do at the time.

The fog in SH2 added to the atmosphere and was in fact a gameplay mechanic and relevant story scene. Removing fog would be stupid. Adding details to a palace while maintaining the same atmosphere is not.

Which itself had departed from lore and concept art due to technical hardware capability and budget. Point is that a better detailed palace isn't a big deal that ruins some setting or atmosphere, that remains intact. Unlike the removing fog in SH2 example which would have meant story and atmosphere changes.

Do you think Boletaria in the Remake is simply Demon's Souls with "more details" or have they massively changed the architecture? The Last of Us Part 1 is an example of the same environment with more detail. Just because the PS5 is more powerful than the PS3 doesn't mean they have to make everything gothic and throw towers everywhere in TLOU just because they can.

Boletaria to my eyes (I may be technically incorrect here) looks more based off what I'd see on a norman castle.

You can argue Demons Souls remake looks better, but it's nonsensical to say it retains the same architecture as the PS3, but adds more detail. It's a whole different design philosophy. I'm not debating opinions on what looks better here I'm stating the obvious.

Also referring back to concept art to prove your point doesn't matter either. A lot of concepts don't make it to the final game. The end result is what matters. You can argue the concepts will enhance the game if included, but once again that's an opinion. Like I could say Tomb Raider would be better if they stuck to having a male as the lead character and the recent Remasters would have benefitted from replacing Lara with the original male.

What you're doing is essentially deciding what works and what doesn't work based off your own opinion. It's fine to have your opinion and I'm not debating that. I'm just saying Boletaria in the Remake doesn't retain the architecture of the original.

 

[Ceadeus]

I still got the JP disc I got at launch, but no PS3 at the moment. I guess its easy to buy one relatively cheap?

Disc is still in good condition, but if its fucked, there is no way to buy it digitally cos the PS3 store was closed down wasnt it?

You can still buy directly on the store if you add fund on either the ps4/ps5 wallet or on their website. I recently purchased ps3 games on my ps3

 

[Three]

Do you think Boletaria in the Remake is simply Demon's Souls with "more details" or have they massively changed the architecture? The Last of Us Part 1 is an example of the same environment with more detail. Just because the PS5 is more powerful than the PS3 doesn't mean they have to make everything gothic and throw towers everywhere in TLOU just because they can.
Boletaria to my eyes (I may be technically incorrect here) looks more based off what I'd see on a norman castle.
Also referring back to concept art to prove your point doesn't matter either. A lot of concepts don't make it to the final game. The end result is what matters. You can argue the concepts will enhance the game if included, but once again that's an opinion. Like I could say Tomb Raider would be better if they stuck to having a male as the lead character and the recent Remasters would have benefitted from replacing Lara with the original male.

The concept art of the original had Boletaria with more arches and a more eastern European gothic look. I'm saying its look in the game was mainly because it had to be blocky to lower polycount and due to the effort put in modelling, not because this was an artistic choice or trying to create a given architecture. Fog in SH was an artistic choice that benefited draw distance but was even explained as part of the story, changing to remove that would have been stupid. This isn't the case for slight changes to the architecture. Look at the building where you fight Doran in the PS3 version for example

It doesn't match any architecture of the period. Why would you have fake windows in those arches then stone columns between them? Its blocky design is to lower polycount and uses instances. that's all. It's just to reduce effort technically. Then inside you have arches and even a dome and stairs leading into a wall. Doesn't really make much sense architecturally

What you're doing is essentially deciding what works and what doesn't work based off your own opinion. It's fine to have your opinion and I'm not debating that. I'm just saying Boletaria in the Remake doesn't retain the architecture of the original.

Yes that's essentially what I'm doing. I'm saying it keeps the atmosphere, lore, and feel of the game and overcomes the limitations of the original hardware to create a more believable palace in a both artistically and technically great game.

 

[poodaddy]

The importance of the original being preserved is that people can always comeback and play FF7 again in the future as many still do and will do... since its the infinitely better version of the game and the true classic ... almost nobody will play classic demons souls instead of the remake going forward ... I think this speaks for itself.

If FF7 remake was a demons souls type of remake ...almost nobody would be going back to play the old version. In fact FF9 remake (their next game) if given a choice I would bet the majority would vote for an "demons souls" remake and not what SE did with FF7.

But this topic is about demons souls so I'll see myself out for now.

Completely agree. FFVII Remake is an absolute abomination of the highest order. I have issues with the Souls remake in terms of art style and sound design missteps, more the latter than the former, but it's still a great way to play through the game and probably is the defacto way to play it moving forward. The same cannot be said of FFVII Remake. Filler, anime cringe, uneven visuals, terrible voice acting, and a spongey combat system just besmirches the legacy of an otherwise legendary game. I don't like the original as much as everyone else does, admittedly, as I always considered it overrated, but it is a damn fine game, and the Remake trilogy is a gargantuan step down in quality of experience, which I don't think I'd say for this new DS.... though I do wish there was at least a toggle to use the old sound design and OST, but what can ya do?