DaleinCalgary
Member
Holy crap you have bad taste.
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Demon's Souls Remake is sorely dissapointing in the art direction
- Thread starter MMaRsu
- Start date
Fbh
Member
Yeah the downgrade to music and specially art direction is quite notorious. Bluepoint are quite talented in some aspects but they also have a tendency to remake games with unique looks and atmospheres and make them appear more generic.
It's the main reason I would 100% prefer a straightforward remaster or Bloodborne instead of a Bluepoint remake.
That said, it's still basically Demon Souls at 60fps with good IQ, good graphics on a technical level and an active online community (at back when it launched). So I still enjoyed it.
It's the main reason I would 100% prefer a straightforward remaster or Bloodborne instead of a Bluepoint remake.
That said, it's still basically Demon Souls at 60fps with good IQ, good graphics on a technical level and an active online community (at back when it launched). So I still enjoyed it.
Cakeboxer
Member
I removed that screen, that was really bad. But the Mind Flayer looks worse and not scary in my opinion. Reminds me of Davy Jones. And it was not the only enemy that looked worse. But that's all subjective.
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ShirAhava
Plays with kids toys, in the adult gaming world
The real Demon Souls is only on PS3 and that is the only version people should bother with
The remake's changes are laughable. Certain people make a lot of snarky remarks when you point this out but
I've yet to see one person break down how the changes are 'better' than the original and not a downgrade that
goes directly against the original aesthetic which many consider a big part of why the OG is a classic
If the remake wasn't a "console exclusive" and used as 'ammo' in that whole nonsense people would be a bit more honest about it
The remake's changes are laughable. Certain people make a lot of snarky remarks when you point this out but
I've yet to see one person break down how the changes are 'better' than the original and not a downgrade that
goes directly against the original aesthetic which many consider a big part of why the OG is a classic
If the remake wasn't a "console exclusive" and used as 'ammo' in that whole nonsense people would be a bit more honest about it
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Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
I felt the same when Jeep changed from Hydro Blue to Hydro Blue Pearl coat. Pissed me right off and I did get right on the Jeep forum and let it out. It felt amazing letting others hear my cries of existential sorrow. It made feel whole and I hope you do to.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I agree overall the game feels more generic. I still take it due to the QoL improvements and frame rate. They even have a ring like the Rusted Iron Ring in Dark Souls that allows you to run and roll in the Swamp of Sorrows. Let’s be honest, this part was utter bullshit and more aggravating than anything else.
Nickolaidas
Member
Aside from Astraea's theme, and the artistic change in the fat officials, the remake blows the original out of the water.
It's the same bullshit argument with SH2 original 'vastly' superior to the remake, despite the remake being a masterpiece.
I mean SURE, opinions are just that, opinions, but I can't help but feel the majority of the anti-remake-ers are just people who are either deep-in-nostalgia or people who just like to shit on remakes because it's the cool thing to hate nowadays.
With amazing arguments like, 'oh, Silent Hill 2 remake is now one more 'over the shoulder' horror game' - yeah, and the original was one more 'fixed camera horror game'. Your point? The entire point of the remake is just that - a REMAKE. If you want to play the exact same game again, play the original or a remaster.
"BUT ANGELA DOESN'T SQUINT HER EYES ON 00:24:45 IN THE FIRST CUTSCENE ANYMORE!!" - yeah, ok.
It's the same bullshit argument with SH2 original 'vastly' superior to the remake, despite the remake being a masterpiece.
I mean SURE, opinions are just that, opinions, but I can't help but feel the majority of the anti-remake-ers are just people who are either deep-in-nostalgia or people who just like to shit on remakes because it's the cool thing to hate nowadays.
With amazing arguments like, 'oh, Silent Hill 2 remake is now one more 'over the shoulder' horror game' - yeah, and the original was one more 'fixed camera horror game'. Your point? The entire point of the remake is just that - a REMAKE. If you want to play the exact same game again, play the original or a remaster.
"BUT ANGELA DOESN'T SQUINT HER EYES ON 00:24:45 IN THE FIRST CUTSCENE ANYMORE!!" - yeah, ok.
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Kataploom
Gold Member
How can someone enjoy a remake if it's literally changing stuff that made the original good for such person?
I haven't played Demons Soul but I decided I'd rather get the original somehow whenever I want to play it after seeing a comparison, the design changes, music changes, that boss fight with absolute different tone, I mean, it's clearly an American product for Americans and it shows lol
Kings Field
Member
As someone who played the shit out of DS back in the day, the remake is absolutely brilliant in my opinion.
Fake
Member
This remake never really hit for me. Unnecessary.
I was hope to Demon's Souls getting a remaster in the same way Dark Souls got a remaster. Without changing the OST, sound effect, color and even the enemy race. Totaly a downgrade IMO and I'll never buy or touch that game.
Only From Software can do a proper job.
I was hope to Demon's Souls getting a remaster in the same way Dark Souls got a remaster. Without changing the OST, sound effect, color and even the enemy race. Totaly a downgrade IMO and I'll never buy or touch that game.
Only From Software can do a proper job.
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Josemayuste
Member
Yeah, mate, I had the EU black phantom edition from release date, so, yeah, I played quite a lot of DS back on the day.
Soodanim
Member
I think it's a downgrade. It changes the mood/atmosphere in a way that I don't think improves the experience. The original did exactly what it was trying to do.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Agree and disagree. While I do think some people cling onto nostalgia and downplay net improvements (seen people claim 60fps detracts from the difficulty lol), I also think atmosphere and artistic vision in a game with the style of Demon's Souls are paramount. If I'm not mistaken, they even added the option to restore the original color filter after player feedback. Whether this was pre or post-release, I don't know, but this is just an example of how Demon's Souls was painstakingly crafted to form a cohesive whole. Changing parts such as the colors, music, character models, lighting, etc, all contribute to altering the atmosphere of the game, which isn't necessarily a good thing, especially since they're only remaking something that was the creation of someone else.
I think the positives outweigh the negatives. 60fps alone makes this a more enjoyable experience, but some changes were deliberate and completely unnecessary. It's a game with a dream-like soundscape and vibe that worked around the limitations of the PS3 to deliver something truly unique and special.
MMaRsu
Member
I mean when I got to 2-1 and got the dogs sent after me by the fat official, I expected him to laugh in my face.
His laughs are iconic in the original. Does he even laugh here? I didnt hear him laugh.
Ofcourse I kept dying to the dogs, lmao.
MiguelItUp
Member
To each their own, I thought it was incredible. I still think it's one of the most beautiful games I've seen, especially with the right display.
IMO it's THE reason to own a PS5.
IMO it's THE reason to own a PS5.
MMaRsu
Member
Why? Because iconic music and sounds have been removed/replaced?
How is that bad taste man.
I never said the game is bad or anything, just that the atmosphere is not the same.
Nobody can disagree with the atmosphere not being the same.
The songs and sounds maybe subjective, but Fromsoft clearly knew what they were doing when they made the game.
So FromSoft has bad taste too?
Well I'm not talking shit about the graphics. I never have
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BlownUpRich
Member
I bet this is down to nostalgia bias? If not, then I am sorry.
But this is why I do not want a Bloodborne Remake, I want a simple remaster, better textures, better lighting & shadows, HDR support, 4K 60 FPS or above, some QoL stuff & better realized online component.
That's it.
But this is why I do not want a Bloodborne Remake, I want a simple remaster, better textures, better lighting & shadows, HDR support, 4K 60 FPS or above, some QoL stuff & better realized online component.
That's it.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I disagree. It being the first game I played on my PS5, I thought it was fantastic. I think it and Astro Bot are really the only two great exclusives on the PS5.
MiguelItUp
Member
I was just throwing that in there, I wasn't saying that you were, lol.
I just thoroughly enjoyed it through and through. Hence it being the main reason why I think one should own a PS5.
Ulysses 31
Member
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Well the whole point in that argument would be that cinematic camera angles are far more artistic and unique throughout the game, instead of one view. You're more helpless and prone to surprise because they can control when you're allowed to see things and they can create atmosphere, sound and pacing around that. 3D camera is not really the same thing. They're pretty different experiences, so obviously one could prefer one over the other.
RE4, I could hardly make it through the demo because the gameplay had been so altered in comparison to the original.
There is a great youtube video dissecting remake culture and it's a utopian belief that games are just following an inevitable path from worse to better just from time passing and technology increasing. It can't be that each generation of developers have unique strengths and weaknesses. It can't be that developers back in the 90s raised on arcades and gameplay, experimental 90s cinema and a flourishing music scene (Yamaoka was definitely listening to Portishead) had unique perspectives that aren't automatically worse than whoever is remaking it today while altering giant chunks of the pacing, gameplay, camera perspectives and OST. It's extremely arrogant to assume that these master developers are just relics that couldn't have had a point. "If only they were born in the amazing time we live now they'd be even better."
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Good take. Gamers insist that video games are art, but if you insist that technology inherently makes them superior, this works against that stance. There are parts that technology undoubtedly enhance, but there are also aspects that are art-driven and not necessarily made better by more advanced tech.
I don’t know about Silent Hill 2 remake, but fixed camera angles back in the PS1-2 era were both a limitation of the time, but also a way to make everything more frightening. A bit like the fog in Silent Hill that served to mask distant details due to the low draw distance, but it also enhanced the horror atmosphere greatly and it wouldn’t have been the same without it.
tomato shrub
Member
The art direction was hit or miss, some art looked better, some looked worse (the art direction, not the polygon number). However, the new OST is a total misfire - and I didn't even play the original back in the day, so no, I'm not blinded by nostalgia. The original game had surreal music with a very distinct feeling, now it's a generic orchestra that could come from any other fantasy slop.
Anyway, for graphical remakes like this and Colossus, Ocarina of Time, etc. I still gotta go with the new versions because of improvements in controls. This game in particular, which finally has a good lock-on-system and I don't know why FROM still hasn't.
Anyway, for graphical remakes like this and Colossus, Ocarina of Time, etc. I still gotta go with the new versions because of improvements in controls. This game in particular, which finally has a good lock-on-system and I don't know why FROM still hasn't.
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Giallo Corsa
Member
Told you before Miku, RE4Re is AcKtually really, really good, you just to play it with an open mind and not with a "this ain't the RE4 that I knew and loved " - but even then, trust me brother when I say that the game is INCREDIBLY faithful to the OG RE4 both atmosphere - but more importantly - gameplay wise, it's just that you have to give it 1 hour for it to "click" when it comes to the new movement/physics etc
Now, regarding DES's remake : people in both camps are right, It makes some changes which may or may not have been needed, but, at the same time, to call it a "worse" game is just pure hyperbole.
Same thing happened with Shadow of the Colossus remake when it released back in the day, JFC, you had people that wouldn't stop bitching 24/7 about the game "losing its soul", about Wander's face looking "off" etc etc - who the fuck gives a shit, you were staring at Wander's ass 99% of the time, who in their right mind would actually care (or, try to care) for something as inconsequential ?
Then again, I always belonged in the camp of "you always have the original title to go back to If you don't want to play the remake for authenticity reasons" so...
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diffusionx
Gold Member
This is the problem with remasters and remakes. They'll never make everyone happy. Straightforward upgrades like Soul Reaver disappoint people. Comprehensive remakes that keep the gameplay totally and 100% intact like this disappoint people. Comprehensive remakes that change gameplay like Resident Evil 2 disappoint people.
These things are like translations in books. They are essentially a new work and a collaboration between the original people and the new ones. It just is w hat it is. You cannot go into it expecting the exact same thing as the original, and even if it was the exact same thing as the original, you're not the same person who experienced it originally. It's just the nature of the beast. You have to look at it as a companion piece to the original not a replacement.
These things are like translations in books. They are essentially a new work and a collaboration between the original people and the new ones. It just is w hat it is. You cannot go into it expecting the exact same thing as the original, and even if it was the exact same thing as the original, you're not the same person who experienced it originally. It's just the nature of the beast. You have to look at it as a companion piece to the original not a replacement.
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Bartski
Gold Member
The video is trash and a stain on this tuber's otherwise solid resume. I don't even know where to start with this level of conflating feelings as facts.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
SH2 is a very good remake. However, they screwed up by putting in too many enemies. At times it plays like an action game, more than horror. The same goes with fix cameras. It enhances tension.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I still intend to pick it up when the Gold version hits $20. Not much longer now. It's down to $30. I'm always transparent about the fact that I just played the demo only.Told you before Miku, RE4Re is AcKtually really, really good, you just to play it with an open mind and not with a "this ain't the RE4 that I knew and loved " - but even then, trust me brother when I say that the game is INCREDIBLY faithful to the OG RE4 both atmosphere - but more importantly - gameplay wise, it's just that you have to give it 1 hour for it to "click" when it comes to the new movement/physics etc
tomato shrub
Member
As much as I enjoy these remakes as their own interpretation, this is all true. There are great things about these RE and Silent Hill remakes, etc., but it's very banal to claim that they are superior just because they have more polygons and controls that feel familiar to your latest Ubisoft AAA game. Old RE4 doesn't have bad controls, it has a different game concept. The game's tension was entirely built around the fact that you draw your gun "realistically" slow while the ganados creep up on you. The art and sound design is also more surreal, giving it a distinct vibe while RE4 remake feels like RE8 again. Again, I liked the RE4 remake very much, heck I prefer RE2 remake over old RE2, but they are barely comparable - completely different games. It's become a plague in enthusiast gamer discourse that anything older than 5 years is somehow considered unplayable. Disrespecting the old art just because they refuse to accostume to alternative game systems and non-shiny graphics for a minute. People ask for a full remake of Bloodborne now, are you shitting me?
I don't know your video, but I tried making one too recently.
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MMaRsu
Member
Yeah, no.
MajinSweet4
Member
Yeah, the Demon's Souls remake is a perfect case study for a bad remake. It doesn't make enough substantial changes to make any sort of meaningful difference in terms of gameplay. All of its balance changes are mostly trivial and ultimately make the game more annoying to play without enhancing anything about it. The new OST is mismatched and comes off as generic since it doesn't fit the areas its used in. The voice acting in particular is just plain bad, where as the original games voice acting is quite good for a low budget game of its time. It enhances the graphics on a technical level, but couldn't do so without completely changing the art style, significantly changing the artistic intent of the visuals. It's in the worst kind of place a remake can be, the middle. It isn't different enough to justify its existence, but its also just different enough to not capture the games original vision. It's the worst type of remake in that it ensures that the original game will not be accessible, while not providing anything the original game did not. Hollow corporate slop that only justifies selling the original ideas from an old game at full price.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I didnt watch the video (yet) but I totally agree.
The problem is when you go online and see people asking for this remake or that remake, they are picturing some old game and they imagine the perfect remake in their head, that does exactly what they want. Then the next guy who says I want that too, they picture the perfect remake in their head, but that is different from the first guy. On and on down the line, until you get to the actual devs who have to turn this vague idea of "update this old game into a modern one" into an actual playable game which will inevitably be different from every single person's idea of the perfect remake. And also note they have to make the game with the charge to try to find people who never played the old game an want one that comports to modern standards, and you have an inevitable conflict. Sony did not spend the money they did on the DS remake with the idea of selling as many as this niche, late PS3 release did. They wanted a new audience with it too. So that is another issue
We really need to have this discussion becasue we are at the point where so many resources are being put into remaking these games and there is just this massive issue bubbling up in terms of what people want and what they are getting. But the industry is so focused on, as you put it, more polygons that this basic idea gets ignored until people are invariably disappointed by what comes out.
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TerribleAtThisGame
Member
You must be me. I had the same gripes yet also enjoyed it because...see your last paragraph.
Also the audio design is actually extremely impressive. Not the goofy changes to sound effects and music but the way weapons sound on bodies and so on. It's a technical marvel on many levels, just not artistically imo.
Sebastian1295
Member
The real reason you think the remake is objectively worse than the original is nostalgia. No matter what bluepoint did you were always going to prefer the original over the remake because you have fond memories of the original and you always were going to believe that the original was better than the remake. There's nothing wrong with that obviously, but that's what i feel like is going on here in all honesty.
MMaRsu
Member
The real reason you think the remake is objectively worse than the original is nostalgia. No matter what bluepoint did you were always going to prefer the original over the remake because you have fond memories of the original and you always were going to believe that the original was better than the remake. There's nothing wrong with that obviously, but that's what i feel like is going on here in all honesty.
Changes to music.. = nostalgia?
Like if they changed Ocarina of Time's music... ???
No, this type of stuff is integral to the experience.
Unknown?
Member
Yes. Nostalgia really effects your opinion unconsciously and consciously. I hated the music of Sonic 3D Blast on the Saturn because I grew up playing the Genesis version. Years and years later I realized the music didn't suck, it was just different and good in its own way.
Muddy
Member
Surprised you managed to see all the artistic vision behind that shit filter of the original game.
