Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Just some examples from developers that hyped up the SSD.


Sorry but neither of those things are revolutionizing for me, the way developers are going on about the SSD.

R&C disguises the loading screens between those jumps and the Medium does pretty much the same with the extreme screen shaking which allows the game to load assets between the world switches.

To me both of these the examples come across more as gimmicky features than revolutionary steps in video game design. It just comes down to loading something quicker, which we all already knew was going to get improved.
 
The mods did say that if an insider just spreads false information to disrupt the forums they will be permanently banned.

If you feel like he's going a little crazy with his leaks I would recommend pointing it out to a mod. I know he's already vetted but they can always verify the information to make sure he's being legitimate here.
How would I do that? Do I report the post? I would assume someone has done that already. Does that mean the info is legit?
 
Sorry but neither of those things are revolutionizing for me, the way developers are going on about the SSD.

R&C disguises the loading screens between those jumps and the Medium does pretty much the same with the extreme screen shaking which allows the game to load assets between the world switches.

To me both of these the examples come across more as gimmicky features than revolutionary steps in video game design. It just comes down to loading something quicker, which we all already knew was going to get improved.

Well of Ratchet was done on a traditional HDD the load times wouldn't be just a couple of seconds. Like around 30-40 seconds per portal jump and the jumps occur every few seconds of gameplay.

So basically with a traditional HDD you would be spending more time waiting for the loading to be done than actually playing the game. That's how it can change game design because this kind of game would be just annoying to play on a standard HDD.

Same thing applies to Medium BTW.
 
The mods did say that if an insider just spreads false information to disrupt the forums they will be permanently banned.

If you feel like he's going a little crazy with his leaks I would recommend pointing it out to a mod. I know he's already vetted but they can always verify the information to make sure he's being legitimate here.
He is also one of the few users here with these kinds of rumors. I am really surprised more people aren't picking up on it and saying something. He is saying TLOU2 is coming to PC with absolute certainty and that he has insider info. If this was era it would be front page shit but nobody even seems to acknowledge the comments here.
 
How would I do that? Do I report the post? I would assume someone has done that already. Does that mean the info is legit?

Mods don't check every single claim that an insider makes. Once they go through the vetting process they don't have to verify every claim that they are making. I would suggest PM a mod directly or using @ to bring their attention to the post if you believe the insider is trying to spread false information to troll the forum for example.
 
Mods don't check every single claim that an insider makes. Once they go through the vetting process they don't have to verify every claim that they are making. I would suggest PM a mod directly or using @ to bring their attention to the post if you believe the insider is trying to spread false information to troll the forum for example.
Can you provide a mods name?

Also I am unsure if they are trying to troll the forum. I just find it strange that one of the few insiders left is dropping potentially massive news and nobody is batting an eye.
 
It is really becoming tiring and annoying listening developers talk about the SSD and how its going to change game design, when each and every single one of them hasn't as much as shown a snippet anything remotely showcasing what their talking about.

The fact that the SSD component has been basically know since both Sony and MS released their last gen refreshed 3+ years ago, you would have assumed some one out there be it 1st party or 3rd party would have started to develop a game with that in mind so that it can actually be showcased. This goes to both PS and Xbox developers by the way.

Instead we are stuck listening to developers hype up the SSD, which their OWN games aren't utilizing to the effect that they are hyping it up.

I am at the point where I don't want to hear a single word from developers about the "revolutionary" capabilities. When you got something that resembles the "revolutionary" design, scream it from the top of the mountain and show it off until then just stfu already.

The constant teasing and blue balling is so unnecessary right now, because all we have seen and heard thus for officially is the improved loading speed both from PS and Xbox.
yeah, its time to start showing stuff. GG had 3.5 years to show us what the SSD can do and as far as i can tell from sony's own PR, the ssd is only being used for loading.
 
The Unreal PS5 demo is the best example of its SSD usage. Developers are going to have to completely change the way they design games if they truly want to make use of PS5's SSD. Things like that take time. They're gonna have to shift their thinking. Also, keep in mind, PSVR2 is probably around the corner someplace, so I'm positive it will have a much greater impact on that front.
 
Well of Ratchet was done on a traditional HDD the load times wouldn't be just a couple of seconds. Like around 30-40 seconds per portal jump and the jumps occur every few seconds of gameplay.

So basically with a traditional HDD you would be spending more time waiting for the loading to be done than actually playing the game. That's how it can change game design because this kind of game would be just annoying to play on a standard HDD.

Same thing applies to Medium BTW.

I completely acknowledge that the waiting times would have been longer, but to me cutting down time for loading assets isn't revolutionary it should be a given with SSD's and something we have know for years now. Everything harks back to loading assets quicker, which was already on PC.

I don't want an advantage peddled to me like I am some clueless schmuck when PC had this sort of benefit for years.
 
Can anyone comment on the legitimacy of VFXVeteran? He is vetted here and is dropping rumors left and right about PC ports of PS exclusives such as TLOU2. Is there any credibility to what he is saying? Why aren't more people commenting on his posts?

He's not vetted for being in the gaming industry but for VFX. It's like me getting an 'industry vetted' tag for being a mechanic.
 
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Can anyone comment on the legitimacy of VFXVeteran? He is vetted here and is dropping rumors left and right about PC ports of PS exclusives such as TLOU2. Is there any credibility to what he is saying? Why aren't more people commenting on his posts?

Lol hes still doing it? Hes comvinced somehow that HFW is also coming to PC. It might but I hardly doubt anytime soon. I think hes trolling.

Sony wants those exclusives to sell consoles and subscriptions to PSPLUS.
 
Lol hes still doing it? Hes comvinced somehow that HFW is also coming to PC. It might but I hardly doubt anytime soon. I think hes trolling.

Sony wants those exclusives to sell consoles and subscriptions to PSPLUS.
Yeah?

I understand sonys benefit of exclusivity but he really seems confident and is going around saying TLOU2 pc port is a certainty.
 
What I'm saying is his 'Industry Professional (Vetted)' tag is not due to being an industry professional in gaming.
So what is the tag for? I'm sorry I'm just really confused. I thought that tag was given when a mod verifies that the user has insider information. I know he knows a lot about graphics but he also seems to hint a lot about ports. This included a botw port, the horizon port, and now a tlou 2 port. If his information is legit I would think this would be dominating the front page.
 
So what is the tag for? I'm sorry I'm just really confused. I thought that tag was given when a mod verifies that the user has insider information. I know he knows a lot about graphics but he also seems to hint a lot about ports. This included a botw port, the horizon port, and now a tlou 2 port. If his information is legit I would think this would be dominating the front page.

Hes been banned for talking crap before.
 
So what is the tag for? I'm sorry I'm just really confused. I thought that tag was given when a mod verifies that the user has insider information. I know he knows a lot about graphics but he also seems to hint a lot about ports. This included a botw port, the horizon port, and now a tlou 2 port. If his information is legit I would think this would be dominating the front page.

'That tag'. There is no standard tag given on GAF for being an insider. People can get different tags for different reasons.

If anything it's more confusing why you think his post would be worthy of 'dominating the front page'. What did he say about those ports that would generate that kind of traffic?
 
'That tag'. There is no standard tag given on GAF for being an insider. People can get different tags for different reasons.

If anything it's more confusing why you think his post would be worthy of 'dominating the front page'. What did he say about those ports that would generate that kind of traffic?
Nothing. He just said that TLOU2 port is coming and that he is certain. He then went on to say that his track record should show that he is correct. This led me to believe his tag meant something very important. As such, a big insider saying a TLOU2 PC port is coming would be MASSIVE news seeing as its one of the biggest games on ps4.
 
This is where you should have stopped before connecting dots that are not there. His post history is publicly available. You're free to check yourself.
Honestly he has a lot of posts I don't think I wanna put in the effort. I was just hoping someone would have the low down on the guy since he seems really prominent (and he has that tag).

Also he said a ps5 pro exists as well as BOTW pc port. He got horizon right but backtracked on those 2 so idk what to make of it honestly
 
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Honestly he has a lot of posts I don't think I wanna put in the effort. I was just hoping someone would have the low down on the guy since he seems really prominent (and he has that tag).

You must be new here. Having a tag doesn't necessarily mean something prominent. It means having a tag. And that tag doesn't say insider.

Also he said a ps5 pro exists.

Anyone willing to put their reputation on the line to make this wild prediction must have insider information, surely.

As well as BOTW pc port.

Wow. Insider information from Sony & Nintendo? Forget GAF's front page, why isn't this on IGN's?

He got horizon right

Explain how he got Horizon right? When did he confirm this was happening?
 
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You must be new here. Having a tag doesn't necessarily mean something prominent. It means having a tag. And that tag doesn't say insider.



Anyone willing to put their reputation on the line to make this wild prediction must have insider information, surely.



Wow. Insider information from Sony & Nintendo? Forget GAF's front page, why isn't this on IGN's?



Explain how he got Horizon right? When did he confirm this was happening?
He announced the horizon port would be coming in December. He was correct.
 
You must be new here. Having a tag doesn't necessarily mean something prominent. It means having a tag. And that tag doesn't say insider.



Anyone willing to put their reputation on the line to make this wild prediction must have insider information, surely.



Wow. Insider information from Sony & Nintendo? Forget GAF's front page, why isn't this on IGN's?



Explain how he got Horizon right? When did he confirm this was happening?
He joined in nov. 2019 and has been making PC port predictions since. He has said that his track record with insider info is perfect. I have no idea what he predicted altogether but I remember him being correct for Horizon as he was one of the first to announce it.
 
He joined in nov. 2019 and has been making PC port predictions since. He has said that his track record with insider info is perfect. I have no idea what he predicted altogether but I remember him being correct for Horizon as he was one of the first to announce it.

Did he announce it before or after the Russian?
 
He announced the horizon port would be coming in December. He was correct.

Gee, I wonder where those rumors came from?
You guessed it! From last December!




He joined in nov. 2019 and has been making PC port predictions since.

Such as?

He has said that his track record with insider info is perfect.

Well shit. I'm finally convinced.

I have no idea what he predicted altogether but I remember him being correct for Horizon as he was one of the first to announce it.

"One of the first". As in, there were other people on the internet who were also making these predictions. Possibly before him?
 
Gee, I wonder where those rumors came from?
You guessed it! From last December!






Such as?



Well shit. I'm finally convinced.



"One of the first". As in, there were other people on the internet who were also making these predictions. Possibly before him?

Ok. So it seems that rumor may have come from before.

So TLOU2 rumor may sprout from the job listing (at ND saying they need NVIDIA driver experience or some shit) that just turned out to be a standard job listing for that job slot. However, he does assert he knows someone at naughty dog who worked on the game and was promoting specific work for the game that his friend did.

Also somewhat related but Jscreirer said he thinks other games may come but that was his prediction. He had nothing to offer on the bloodborne pc port and he also said his predictions are very different from his insider rumors.
 
Gee, I wonder where those rumors came from?
You guessed it! From last December!






Such as?



Well shit. I'm finally convinced.



"One of the first". As in, there were other people on the internet who were also making these predictions. Possibly before him?

VFXveteran might have also been before. He made his account Nov. 5th 2019. I'm on a phone rn and don't feel like scrolling all the way back but I remember he talked about it early December. Might have been before the Russian video even.

Regardless. He seems certain about TLOU2 coming to PC so I hope maybe a mod can check his claims if they are willing to do so.
 
The fact that the SSD component has been basically know since both Sony and MS released their last gen refreshed 3+ years ago, you would have assumed some one out there be it 1st party or 3rd party would have started to develop a game with that in mind so that it can actually be showcased. This goes to both PS and Xbox developers by the way.

Sony didn't know they'd achieve such fast transfer speeds until end of last year.

In that time Epic managed to produce their Tech Demo for PS5... producing full games takes longer when major design principles and limitations have changed to the extent the SSD speed in PS5 allows.

Games due for release in the next year or two started to be designed about 3 years ago - long before the impact of this tech would be understood.
 
This is one part I 'm not sure I understand. Does that mean that it will add more power to the GPU? Does that mean that the GPU can deliver 10,3 tflops and that you can add a few flops thanks to the cpu (of course if the cpu isn't working at full potential)?

No it doesn't change tflops numbers - tflops are just clock speed * (GPU) processors. They're a "back of a napkin" notional expression of the power of a processing device. They're not measured on a real piece of hardware.

When we talk about power in this context, we're literally talking about electrical power - the Wattage made available to the GPU or CPU. Power(W) isn't a part of the tflop calculation but it is a critical factor in the real hardware.

Clock is the speed at which the processor operates - it's the heart beat, the drum beat the synchronisation signal - the clock by itself doesn't mean anything or consume any significant power. The question is what happens in the interval between each beat - this is the work the processor is doing and consumes electrical energy.

That energy is used for changing and maintaining the state of transistors on the silicon - more transistor changes = more energy required (assuming other variables are held constant).

Providing more Watts allows a processor to do more work in a single clock tick than would be possible with less Watts. That's the power that's being referred to.

It's fair to say that tflops is a "back of the napkin" way of expressing power but no machine would genuinely use all those tflops in any real application. The question is how many of the tflops can be utilised by a "real world app". The power system in the PS5 is designed to ensure that a higher percentage of it's notional tflops power is actually useable in the realworld compared to a fixed clock system.

In principle a fixed clock system is not so efficient because it cannot use an increased clock even if the power is available and if a fixed clock system tries to consume more power than is available, it will drop frames or become unstable due to excessive heat.
 
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Yah I know the 'fast travel' arch doors and the circle "realm between realms" runaround can be exactly like you described.

But still we as gamers cannot still think beyond the fast travel or real shifts which are actually the scratch on the surface, what these surface level improvements can unlock is tip of the I/O iceberg for all gaming, not just AAA ones.

Realmshift may even become a gimmick used by many games while great studios will use it to create whole different breed of games.

I think we're finally going to have more realistic exploration of worlds. By that I mean insides of buildings, no more fake doors, bushes, rock rumbles and all the tricks devs use to hide inefficiency of HDDs. It's partially due to resource limitations (you have to design all those levels) but I think asset repetition and, maybe, AI used for generating levels might help with that. I'd prefer a randomly generated room behind a working door than simply a locked door which the character decides not to open and, instead, goes through a tight vent or fights tens of enemies to get through. It broke a lot of immersion in TLOU2 for me and I was even wondering why, because locked doors and impassable bushes had been in gaming since the beginning. Then I realized that the more realistic the game looks, the more it's going to stick out.

Did anyone figure out what this tweet was about?



5nm and the 900 games bit... why 900 what does that relate to?

Seemed an odd thing to come out with 'randomly'....


Maybe Lockhart isn't a "small brother" of XSX but a new gaming-focused Surface? I'm purely speculating here, no sources to show (hello mods ;).

Man, is he high? The Medium looks like current gen, and not even top tier current gen in graphics!

A horror third-person game doesn't need 60 FPS, 30 will do fine. Apart from that, Bloober is a small dev and their previous games are rather low-tier. However, this time round they're using Platige Image to produce visuals. Platige studio has a ton of experience both in film (CGI for the Witcher series, for example) and gaming (again, trailers for many games including Witcher or even Halo). I know devs who praised cooperation with them as very satisfactory.
 
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VFXveteran might have also been before. He made his account Nov. 5th 2019. I'm on a phone rn and don't feel like scrolling all the way back but I remember he talked about it early December. Might have been before the Russian video even.

Regardless. He seems certain about TLOU2 coming to PC so I hope maybe a mod can check his claims if they are willing to do so.
I remember the guy from the previous generation switch. He was active back then and also claimed a few things. I don't remember if he got anything right or maybe got banned too. His nick was similar but not the same.

Everything is coming to PC, eventually. In 10 years it's almost certain there will be a PS5 emulator for PC (which will need to be many times more powerful to run it) and it'll play TLOU2. Maybe before that happens, Sony will decide to get some cash from the PC crowd and release their game, just like they are doing now with HZD. Anyway, this is a next gen thread. You should take this PC discussion elsewhere.
 
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yeah, its time to start showing stuff. GG had 3.5 years to show us what the SSD can do and as far as i can tell from sony's own PR, the ssd is only being used for loading.

This is a ridiculous comment.

You may as well say the GPU is only being used to render graphics or the sound hardware is only being used for sound.

The lack of system design empathy is incredible on what's supposed to be an enthusiast forum...
 
I feel that's the point SlimySnake was trying to make. If we are working under the assumption that all/most devs will target native 4K on PS5/Series X, then the Lockhart has enough grunt and more to be a capable 1080p machine. The question is, what happens, when the devs start going for photo-realistic, graphically intensive games and decide to scale back the resolution on Series X/PS5? Going from native 4K to 1800p to 1600p to 1440p or ~xxx0p will have a domino effect on Lockhart, as the power is relative across the 3 machines. It won't necessarily be able to output at the desired 1080p all generation long. Which puts a question mark against the long-term viability of it, a console generation generally lasts 10 years before devs stop making games for it, how well do you think this machine will age in 2025 or 2027? These are all fair questions imo

And, while I agree with you, that UE5 was a tech demo, it is still the most "next-gen" footage we have seen so far. It should serve as a reminder, how higher quality pixels > more pixels. The demo is rendering at 1440p and they are using temporal injection to achieve 4K, yet the IQ on that thing can contest the native 4K games shown at PS5 note. I'll go one step further, not only does it contest, in some cases it outshines them.

12TF /4TF = 3 approx.

8.5 megapixels (4k) / 3 = 2.8 MP (2231 x 1255 resolution, simply put 1255p)
4.2 (2K) / 3 = 1.4 MP (1578 x 887 resolution, simply put 887p)

EDITED using this:

 
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I think we're finally going to have more realistic exploration of worlds. By that I mean insides of buildings, no more fake doors, bushes, rock rumbles and all the tricks devs use to hide inefficiency of HDDs. It's partially due to resource limitations (you have to design all those levels) but I think asset repetition and, maybe, AI used for generating levels might help with that. I'd prefer a randomly generated room behind a working door than simply a locked door which the character decides not to open and, instead, goes through a tight vent or fights tens of enemies to get through. It broke a lot of immersion in TLOU2 for me and I was even wondering why, because locked doors and impassable bushes had been in gaming since the beginning. Then I realized that the more realistic the game looks, the more it's going to stick out.



Maybe Lockhart isn't a "small brother" of XSX but a new gaming-focused Surface? I'm purely speculating here, no sources to show (hello mods ;).



A horror third-person game doesn't need 60 FPS, 30 will do fine. Apart from that, Bloober is a small dev and their previous games are rather low-tier. However, this time round they're using Platige Image to produce visuals. Platige studio has a ton of experience both in film (CGI for the Witcher series, for example) and gaming (again, trailers for many games including Witcher or even Halo). I know devs who praised cooperation with them as very satisfactory.

comparing games graphical fidelity without considering resolutions/frame rate/world size is just bad comparisons. You are making compromises when you try and hit 60fps etc.
 
A demanding game will also have the same effect as a poorly coded one.
It is what it is.
Again, it seems like you are thinking demanding as having a high visual complexity and lots of physical effects and AI actors, etc... in this case there are often scenarios where you do NOT have both CPU and GPU using their full power budget/running at maximum efficiency/utilisation.

In that sense, like a poorly coded game, you may have little need to downclock the components and lose performance: those scenarios often are using either component at less of its full utilisation so if I were to reduce its clock I would actually lose no FPS / would have no performance side effect and I would be just conserving power that like currency can be transferred to the other unit as credit if needed. Think of both having say 50 power units each as budget and either being able to only use what it actually needs and leave the rest to the other (giving day the GPU a budget of 60 for example if the CPU only needs 40). There was a great ResetEra post covering it and tons of other threads in here too.

The future scenario where Cerny predicted you may have a clock speed reduction as talking about a case where developer getting more and more efficient at removing bottlenecks in their code are utilising the HW more and more reducing stalls or low utilisation rate to the minimum: in this instances where both CPU and GPU are filled to the brim with useful work without stalls, if one or both were using particularly power hungry instructions then you may have an edge case where the frequency may have to go down not to exceed the power budget.
Such scenario is not only rare, but having say a 2% clock speed reduction in that instance leads to far more performance out of the HW that initial early gen games can get even with both components always running at full clock speed. Difference between theoretical specs and sustained performance and all that... :).

But I'm not sure why people are trying to say there isnt some power difference. There is.

The only people taking about being NO power difference are usually those creating a straw-man argument they want to prove wrong. Pretty much everyone agrees there is a power difference CPU and GPU wise and as you said that it is the smallest on record between these two contenders.

There are of course areas of differentiation where things are less clear: RAM utilisation and speed beyond a certain access range by the GPU on the XSX, the effective speed, minus virtualisation cost, of disabling SMT to get higher frequency on the CPU side, CPU impact of SSD I/O, impact of SFS in easing virtual texturing in games, impact of BCPack in the scene visual variety, difference in SSD I/O, etc...
 
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So that was only 5.5GB/s raw speeds, no 9-22GB/s! Imagine doing all of that with SSD's "thumb" only. :messenger_winking_tongue:

Oodle Texture and Kraken are not the same thing, Sony and Epic may have used the latter and not the former. Without direct confirmation it is difficult to say and I would prefer not to hype things up by assuming neither tech was used until confirmed.

Oodle Texture does provide a nice speed up / improved compression rate over pure Kraken though:

(Overview of Kraken without Oodle Texture pre-processing and with it)
 
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