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[sircaw]

The infinity cache was a solid 100mm2 size wise on that big navi die shot. xbox or ps5 would have a far bigger soc if they had it.

i don't get you Don, you come across as normal even likable when you chat like a normal person. What is it with all the triggered emotes?

 

[RogueHALLINAN]

I am Pretty sure that Sony's answer to SAM and MS APU will in truth mean that there is very little between the console's possible minimal difference between FPS, resolutions etc. with the real winners being gamers regardless.

 

[PaintTinJr]

As I said in a different thread, I'm pretty sure Sony released a new SDK with a backport of some of the storage api for the PS5, sans the hardware decompression (but now done on the GPU on the PS4). They might also have done a compatible assets id storage read directly into GPU memory, as is done on the PS5. This'll ensure the same code can be used on PS4 and PS5 BC, and should improve read speeds even from a HD.

Yeah, that certainly sounds like it would work for older games where a new SDK will have far better utilisation for doing graphics and async compute efficiently, so effectively getting free performance to do the decompression - that was previously left on the table - and if as I speculated they also had been using the old 2.5GB(iirc) memory footprint of launch PS4 games - because it might have only had 4GBs of GDDR5 - then extra compute plus more memory would explain the massive x2 - x3 gain in reducing loading IMHO.

 

[DarkParadise]

 

[geordiemp]

Custom mesh shading is probably due in part to their SSD optimizations

Dont think its tied to SSD, the geometry enghine in ps will be an extenstion of ps4 for cernys time to triangle and include more optimisations, as hinted my times by Matt Hargett on twitter. This is not new information, its been banded around for about 2 -3 months.

 

[Doncabesa]

i don't get you Don, you come across as normal even likable when you chat like a normal person. What is it with all the triggered emotes?

Emojis are fun, that's it pretty much.

 

[sircaw]

Emojis are fun, that's it pretty much.

Hook line and sinker.

 

[IntentionalPun]

i don't get you Don, you come across as normal even likable when you chat like a normal person. What is it with all the triggered emotes?

Probably because you sound triggered all the time.

 

[kyliethicc]

Emojis are fun, that's it pretty much.

Do you agree letting Brady go to Tampa was a mistake? Cam Newton sucks.

 

[Yoboman]

Not bad

Here is the controller speaker

 

[travisktl]

Just finished watching this...what a crazy ride this year has been regarding PS5 stuff. SO many rumors and random posts popping up online. Some true, and way more that were just bullshit. I'm glad these consoles are finally here in just two weeks!

 

[cragarmi]

The infinity cache was a solid 100mm2 size wise on that big navi die shot. xbox or ps5 would have a far bigger soc if they had it.

It likely has its own caching structure, and its caching management is a significant departure from stock RDNA2

 

[LiquidRex]

So I take it there's still some confusion with what the PS5 has under the hood in terms of feature set, compared to XSX/XSS claim their consoles are the only ones to have full RDNA 2... Maybe Cerny will do a Road to PS5 Part 2, including a discussion on Custom DLSS.

Congratulations RGT for being on point again. Great job.

 

[onesvenus]

XSX does not have the below from hotchips, die shots or frequency of GPU unless they lied at Hotchips ? Take your pick.

Well, maybe they choose not to talk about those features? That doesn't imply those don't exist. Has AMD talked about SFS today? No, and we know that's one of RDNA2 features.

I wonder why they qualified it with the word "today"?

So are we waiting for a new AMD conference where they will show something not available to the Xbox? Really?

Typical Marketing speak. Technically true but disingenuous.

Microsoft has DXR, Mesh shaders, other directx goodies (as mentioned by geordiemp ). Sony is using their own proprietary equivalents.

If it's technically true, how come people are saying it's using RDNA1 CUs?

How does this square with the presentation from Cerny though. It seemed they only stopped at the.. 2.25? Ghz because the logic fell apart after that, not because they couldnt

That's a good question that you should ask Cerny. It never made any sense.

The rumored sustained clocks of Navi 22 ( 2.5ghz ) are higher but with less CUs

If PS5 is using RDNA2 CUs, Navi 22 would be the comparable, no?

There's no if, PS5 is using RDNA2 CUs. Navi 22 does not exist yet. And those rumors pointing to that clock did also say that all the series 6000 cards would have much higher clocks than what they ended up having.


It's so baffling seeing intelligent people talking so much bullshit because it doesn't fit their narrative.

On one hand MS says they did wait until the RDNA2 architecture was finished but somehow they decided they wanted RDNA1 CUs because that's what some random guy at twitter was telling.

On the other hand we have a blog post which was surely proof-readed multiple times and that it hasn't been corrected neither by AMD nor Sony but we are supposed to believe the speculation that some folks have been doing for the last months.

Nothing makes sense

 

[Aceofspades]

I need someone to Xray PS5 chip! We need to see that Cerny's magic !

 

[kyliethicc]

So better than the Gold PS4 headset, but not (of course) as good as a Blue Yeti. Cool cool.

 

[geordiemp]

So what new things did we learn today

1. Infinity cache on L2 is 128 MB and neither console has hidden 120 mm2 die space

2. RDNA2 CU have per CU clocking and finite control and can do high frequencies and have fast caches and controls.

3. Everything else was known, feaures and drivers, nothing new just PR.

4. Yes we knew XSX would have full RDNA2 FEATURES, and PS5 would do one of their own (likely Geometry engine preferred over mesh shaders but thats Sony choice)

Thats about it, and of course AMD working on a DLSS of their own. And some nice performance vs Nvidia.

 

[cragarmi]

Why whenever i see your avatar i think of CRAPGAMER FFS. No offense.

And when I see yours it reminds me deep fried sircaw, would go lovely with a Moscato!

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

Sony Raises Profit Forecast Ahead of Big PlayStation 5 Debut

Sony Corp. raised its fiscal-year operating profit outlook by 13% to 700 billion yen ($6.7 billion) as its video game unit rode a surge in demand for entertainment from home-bound consumers.

The forecast, up from a previous 620 billion yen, surpassed the average analyst expectation of 658.9 billion yen and precedes the PlayStation 5's highly anticipated November debut. Sony aims to sell more than 7.6 million PS5 units by the end of March, more than the PS4 managed in its first fiscal year, Chief Financial Officer Hiroki Totoki said.

Sony Surges After Increase in Forecast on Gaming Demand

Sony Corp. shares soared after the company raised its fiscal-year operating profit outlook by 13%, with a surge in video-game demand from home-bound consumers.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[demigod]

So better than the Gold PS4 headset, but not (of course) as good as a Blue Yeti. Cool cool.

Which Blue Yeti is it? Didn't realize what huge difference it makes, i buy cheap ones for my PC, lol.

 

[Handy Fake]

So are we waiting for a new AMD conference where they will show something not available to the Xbox? Really?

Well, I suppose the custom hardware wouldn't technically be AMD? Xbox has been able to document its features as and when AMD released the information. Sony might have a proprietary NDA on their custom work with AMD.

 

[Elog]

The infinity cache was a solid 100mm2 size wise on that big navi die shot. xbox or ps5 would have a far bigger soc if they had it.

The only way to have it would be off-die - as I speculated before there is reason to believe that Sony might have chosen that solution (similar to Sony sensors and PS Vita).

 

[geordiemp]

Well, maybe they choose not to talk about those features? That doesn't imply those don't exist. Has AMD talked about SFS today? No, and we know that's one of RDNA2 features.


So are we waiting for a new AMD conference where they will show something not available to the Xbox? Really?


If it's technically true, how come people are saying it's using RDNA1 CUs?


That's a good question that you should ask Cerny. It never made any sense.


There's no if, PS5 is using RDNA2 CUs. Navi 22 does not exist yet. And those rumors pointing to that clock did also say that all the series 6000 cards would have much higher clocks than what they ended up having.


It's so baffling seeing intelligent people talking so much bullshit because it doesn't fit their narrative.

On one hand MS says they did wait until the RDNA2 architecture was finished but somehow they decided they wanted RDNA1 CUs because that's what some random guy at twitter was telling.

On the other hand we have a blog post which was surely proof-readed multiple times and that it hasn't been corrected neither by AMD nor Sony but we are supposed to believe the speculation that some folks have been doing for the last months.

Nothing makes sense

LOL., you think XSX has frequency adjustment down to each CU to acheive high clocks ? What ?

And then you think MS just turned it off because sustained sounds better, and turned down the frequency by 20-30 % lol

Really ? Thats being silly.

What about the CU looking like a 5700 and nothing like a 6800 ? Maybe we all cannot see ?

XSX has more CU but they are not same as PC parts or ps5.

 

[YoodlePro]

What a shit show today. Usual suspects.

Can't wait for the consoles to launch already and this shit to be over. There will be some crow to be eaten from both team blue and team green, I bet.

 

[Aceofspades]

So what new tyhings did we learn todaty

1. Infinity cache on L2 is 128 MB and neither console has hidden 120 mm2 die space

2. RDNA2 CU have per CU clocking and finite control and can do high frequencies and have fast caches and controls.

3. Everything else was known, feaures and drivers, nothing new just PR.

4. Yes we knew XSX would have full RDNA2 FEATURES, and PS5 would do one of their own (likely Geometry engine preferred over mesh shaders but thats Sony choice)

Thats about it, and of course AMD working on a DLSS of their own. And some nice performance vs Nvidia.

So it isn't possible to have lower amounts of Infinity Cache? Like 32MB, 16 or even 8MB?

Also people are sleeping on "Cache Scrubbers" that Cerny specifically mentioned as exclusive to PS5 in his presentation.

 

[geordiemp]

The infinity cache was a solid 100mm2 size wise on that big navi die shot. xbox or ps5 would have a far bigger soc if they had it.

Correct.

Both ps5 and XSX are same except

1. XSX has mesh shaders vs ps5 customised GE

2. XSX has CUs that do not have the high freqency control per CU etc, see slide below. Confirmed by hot chips, diagrams, die shots.

 

[Nowcry]

So what new things did we learn today

1. Infinity cache on L2 is 128 MB and neither console has hidden 120 mm2 die space

2. RDNA2 CU have per CU clocking and finite control and can do high frequencies and have fast caches and controls.

3. Everything else was known, feaures and drivers, nothing new just PR.

4. Yes we knew XSX would have full RDNA2 FEATURES, and PS5 would do one of their own (likely Geometry engine preferred over mesh shaders but thats Sony choice)

Thats about it, and of course AMD working on a DLSS of their own. And some nice performance vs Nvidia.

Where i learn:

2. RDNA2 CU have per CU clocking and finite control and can do high frequencies and have fast caches and controls. ¿¿¿¿

 

[kyliethicc]

Which Blue Yeti is it? Didn't realize what huge difference it makes, i buy cheap ones for my PC, lol.

idk he didn't say.

 

[LiquidRex]

I think I can simplify what's happening with regards RDNA in the consoles... MICROSOFT RDNA 2, SONY RDNA PS5.
Job done.

 

[Moses85]

congrats you've won the thread. lol this fucking retard

His "Miles whatever" was the most embarrassing shit I've ever heard from a "professional" editor..

Aus Frankfurt einen Gruß nach Berlin! Das war richtig schlecht A alexb .

 

[geordiemp]

Where i learn:

2. RDNA2 CU have per CU clocking and finite control and can do high frequencies and have fast caches and controls. ¿¿¿¿

Pervasive fine grain clock gating, whcih I guess will be datailed more in white paper. But its fine fequency control IMO.

 

[Nickolaidas]

What a shit show today. Usual suspects.

Can't wait for the consoles to launch already and this shit to be over. There will be some crow to be eaten from both team blue and team green, I bet.

I'll be too busy playing Demon's Souls, Godfall, Devil May Cry 5 SE, Miles Morales, Mortal Kombat 11 on my PS5 and Phoenix Point, Gears 5, Ori 2, Alien Isolation and Baldur's Gate 3 on my PC to give a flying fuck about this thread.

 

[Zathalus]

So what new tyhings did we learn todaty

1. Infinity cache on L2 is 128 MB and neither console has hidden 120 mm2 die space

2. RDNA2 CU have per CU clocking and finite control and can do high frequencies and have fast caches and controls.

3. Everything else was known, feaures and drivers, nothing new just PR.

4. Yes we knew XSX would have full RDNA2 FEATURES, and PS5 would do one of their own (likely Geometry engine preferred over mesh shaders but thats Sony choice)

Thats about it, and of course AMD working on a DLSS of their own. And some nice performance vs Nvidia.

We also learned that 1815mhz-2025Mhz are considered sustained (game) clocks in normal gaming applications, while the boost clock will only occur in bursty workloads.


XSX is perfectly in line with the game clock.

 

[FunkMiller]

Just finished watching this...what a crazy ride this year has been regarding PS5 stuff. SO many rumors and random posts popping up online. Some true, and way more that were just bullshit. I'm glad these consoles are finally here in just two weeks!

All of us outside US

 

[welshrat]

Bloody marvellous AMD reveal. PS5 on the 19th for me and an AIB 6800XT before the year is out. what a great load of new tech

 

[IntentionalPun]

All of us outside US

Don't worry I'll post lots of videos of my face while I'm enjoying my PS5 for you to live vicariously through.

 

[Aceofspades]

I think I can simplify what's happening with regards RDNA in the consoles... MICROSOFT RDNA 2, SONY RDNA PS5.
Job done.

Let me fix that for you:
I think I can simplify what's happening with regards RDNA in the consoles... MICROSOFT off shelf RDNA 2, SONY customized RDNA2 .
Job done.

 

[ethomaz]

The infinity cache was a solid 100mm2 size wise on that big navi die shot. xbox or ps5 would have a far bigger soc if they had it.

AnandTech estimated around 6 billion transistors based in standard 6T SRAM.
They even compared with the full NAVI 10 chip that has 10.3b transistors and 251mm2.

AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware, Software, and Deals

Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

www.anandtech.com

100mm2 is probably being very optimistic for 128MB.

 

[Mr Moose]

I thought it was the 2nd one at first, was going to say its dog shit lol.
Hopefully the audio quality is good on them.

 

[Tajaz2426]

I am against console warring, but doesn't the PS5 use custom RDNA 2 just a Cerny said in the Road to PS5? I didn't think it use direct. I have both on preorder, but Lordy some folks sound crazy.

 

[Codexer]

 

[FunkMiller]

Don't worry I'll post lots of videos of my face while I'm enjoying my PS5 for you to live vicariously through.

Hmmmm. Living vicariously through IntentionalPun 's face...

 

[ethomaz]

It likely has its own caching structure, and its caching management is a significant departure from stock RDNA2

It is part of stock RDNA 2.

 

[Nowcry]

Pervasive fine grain clock gating, whcih I guess will be datailed more in white paper. But its fine fequency control IMO.

They seem to have opted for a maximum of 5 DCUs per shader array in that arrangement.???

 

[MasterCornholio]

ethomaz keyboard is going to get worn out if he continues at this rate.

Is it maybe possible, just maybe, that PS5 doesn't have the hardware advantage in every meaningful category? They both built $500 packages. Sony spent more on IO and controller in the package. It's just common sense that there isn't going to be 100% parity between these two devices. They will excell in different areas.

Pretty much the way I see it. Neither console is a generation ahead of the other. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. Like the XSXs additional CUs will give it an advantage in some areas while the PS5s I/O will give it some advantages in others.

Unfortunately we have to wait for the comparisons to find out what the real differences are. We have an idea but nothing fully confirmed yet.

 

[Md Ray]

"Redesigned Data Paths for Efficient Movement"

Reminds me of what Mark Cerny said during his 'Road to PS5' talk:

For RDNA 2 - their (AMD) goals were, roughly speaking, to reduce power consumption by re-architecting the GPU to put data close to where it's needed, to optimize the GPU for performance.

 

[Mr Moose]

Which Blue Yeti is it? Didn't realize what huge difference it makes, i buy cheap ones for my PC, lol.

Blue Microphones Yeti - USB Microphone for Recording and Streaming on PC and Mac, Game Streaming, Skype Calls, Youtube Streaming, Plug and Play, Silver Color: Blue Microphones: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Free delivery and returns on eligible orders of £20 or more. Buy Blue Microphones Yeti - USB Microphone for Recording and Streaming on PC and Mac, Game Streaming, Skype Calls, Youtube Streaming, Plug and Play, Silver Color at Amazon UK.

www.amazon.co.uk

Probably this one. I think the Yeti also has a Pro version (and a nano).

 

[jamwest24]

Yes... they are doing PR and people believing it.
That is why they choose confusing works for the PR.

"Xbox Series X|S will be the only next gen consoles with full RDNA 2 integration"
"Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today"

They doesn't say full hardware RDNA 2 but instead full RDNA 2 integration and/or RDNA 2 capabilities.

This.. ^ Anyone who has worked in PR knows how important those specific words are....And just like literally everything else we've seen so far from Microsoft, they've been all talk and PR spin and no substance.. (besides backwards compatibility and faux HDR that my 3 year old TV does).

 

[FranXico]

RDNA2 CU have per CU clocking and finite control and can do high frequencies and have fast caches and controls.

People aren't paying attention. The consoles APUs are both custom, but very different because one manufacturer chose a narrow design, while another went as wide as possible, with trade-offs as a result.

If people can't figure out by now, there is no point.

 

[Aceofspades]

I am against console warring, but doesn't the PS5 use custom RDNA 2 just a Cerny said in the Road to PS5? I didn't think it use direct. I have both on preorder, but Lordy some folks sound crazy.

Yes, you are completely right. And THANK GOD PS5 has nothing to do with DirectX api. Usually Playstations use lower level api