Red Gaming Tech (RGT): The PS5 has a custom feature to be found in future RDNA 3 Cards.

What do you think? Is it true that the PS5 has a custom feature to be found in future RDNA 3 cards?

  • Total voters
    431
Dave_at_Home said:
First and foremost, you have not explained how the PS5 demonstrates a reworking.

Mark Cerny, in the road to PS5, had clearly stated his preference for the highest clocks possible. They also clearly did not want to repeat the same mistakes in PS4 Pro as it relates to cooling. All of this stuff was in the road to PS5 talk and your suspicions of a secret reworking only exist in your head. Not to mention the final hardware inside the PS5 was decided two years ago.

It's hilarious to think Sony somehow didn't know that Microsoft would be going with the largest GPU they could. PS4 Pro has 36 compute units and so does the PS5. It was clearly obvious to them Xbox would have more in their next-gen system. In fact, in the road to PS5, Cerny talks about testing different GPU configurations (ones with more CU). They clearly felt based on the clocks they wanted to hit, and the combination of the rest of the hardware along with their customizations, that it would provide the next-gen experience they've been seeking.

It's aslo entirely possible, based on their hardware design, that they didn't feel it was worth spending the money on a larger GPU. The performance jump may not have been worth it. I guess we'll see soon, but pretending there's this large gap between the two consoles as if we're talking Splinter Cell on Xbox versus PS2 here is nonsense. There's a reason why Sony went with a more narrow but faster GPU design compared to Series X, and you have to look at the entire system holistically to suss that out. A console is more than just its compute units.
Click to expand...
I never said there will be an ABYSSAL difference but one will have a clear advantage ... but the real problem here is that consoles cost the same price. I've explained 100 times why I think it's a last year (or around there) rework. and I'll repeat it again if you want.The console didn't changed "design" they added the variable clock part and upclocked it ...the console was designed to have lower (not by a lot) performance and the same cu's number. The target was probably those 9.something TFs that were rumored to be Oberon (github leak). Then we start to see the first real images of the ps5 and it's monstrously big ... the biggest console in history. Then comes the official teardown and we find out that on the official ps5 SOC we have the same AMD Oberon code. All this is even stranger if we compare the two consoles .... less powerful,not contemplated as full rdna2, much larger, consumes more watts with less silicon and cost the same.. a design gap that is not often seen.
We heard ms talking about waiting amd for the new full rdna2 architecture and this point out again to oberon and how it was possible for Sony to have the soc already in his hands. We have millions of rumors about how ps5 devkits were already in the hands of developers when no Xbox devkits were out yet...etc etc etc
the liquid metal the enormous and expensive heatsink to mitigate the clock problem. Sony could not present the ps5 with 9 tf. we all know how long the enthusiast would see it as a shit console and the echo chamber generated would only create problems. If this is little for you, I don't know what else to say
 
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People still in denial here that Ps5 will demolish SX in most tasks? You really taught CERNY was kidding on those low acess levels uh? 😂

Gonna be a fun next few weeks.
 
MonarchJT said:
I never said there will be an ABYSSAL difference but one will have a clear advantage ... but the real problem here is that consoles cost the same price. I've explained 100 times why I think it's a last year (or around there) rework. and I'll repeat it again if you want.The console didn't changed "design" they added the variable clock part and upclocked it ...the console was designed to have lower (not by a lot) performance and the same cu's number. The target was probably those 9.something TFs that were rumored to be Oberon (github leak). Then we start to see the first real images of the ps5 and it's monstrously big ... the biggest console in history. Then comes the official teardown and we find out that on the official ps5 SOC we have the same AMD Oberon code. All this is even stranger if we compare the two consoles .... less powerful,not contemplated as full rdna2, much larger, consumes more watts with less silicon and cost the same.. a design gap that is not often seen.
We heard ms talking about waiting amd for the new full rdna2 architecture and this point out again to oberon and how it was possible for Sony to have the soc already in his hands. We have millions of rumors about how ps5 devkits were already in the hands of developers when no Xbox devkits were out yet...etc etc etc
the liquid metal the enormous and expensive heatsink to mitigate the clock problem. Sony could not present the ps5 with 9 tf. we all know how long the enthusiast would see it as a shit console and the echo chamber generated would only create problems. If this is little for you, I don't know what else to say
Click to expand...
Again, you have no proof of a major issue with any of the various stages the PS5 went through. So it's Oberon. What's your point exactly? Variable frequency was not a last minute addition because they'd be afraid of the "hardcore fanbase". All of it was purposeful from the beginning. Sony helped AMD co-develop Navi after all. Hell, Sony spent OVER TWO YEARS DEVELOPING THE LIQUID METAL COOLING. You're splitting hairs and have bought into fanboy narrative that the final hardware was a desperate last minute change and somehow is less RDNA than Series X. The patents are out there for what Sony has done with their geometry engine. Nothing is lost.

If it makes you feel better I'll leave you to your work.
DxVy66k.gif
 
Dave_at_Home said:
Again, you have no proof of a major issue with any of the various stages the PS5 went through. So it's Oberon. What's your point exactly? Variable frequency was not a last minute addition because they'd be afraid of the "hardcore fanbase". All of it was purposeful from the beginning. Sony helped AMD co-develop Navi after all. Hell, Sony spent OVER TWO YEARS DEVELOPING THE LIQUID METAL COOLING. You're splitting hairs and have bought into fanboy narrative that the final hardware was a desperate last minute change and somehow is less RDNA than Series X. The patents are out there for what Sony has done with their geometry engine. Nothing is lost.

If it makes you feel better I'll leave you to your work.
DxVy66k.gif
Click to expand...
ok so if Cerny and Sony now need to build the largest console in history by making up their own lives with higher frequencies and variable clocks and billions of differents patents that copies rdna2 features... consuming more watts ... all of this at the same price as those who have more performance..full rdna2 features .. less watts ..and smaller sizes. Well if that's the case for you .... at sony it's better if they change the hw designer and hw development team. topic closed

I repeat you do not have to convince me. for me the thing is clear I will not change my mind.
 
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MonarchJT said:
ok so if Cerny and Sony now need to build the largest console in history by making up their own lives with higher frequencies and variable clocks and billions of differents patents that copies rdna2 features... consuming more watts ... all of this at the same price as those who have more performance..full rdna2 features .. less watts ..and smaller sizes. Well if that's the case for you .... at sony it's better if they change the hw designer and hw development team. topic closed

I repeat you do not have to convince me. for me the thing is clear I will not change my mind.
Click to expand...

Haha, ok as long as you remain so open minded there is a chance ;).
 
Panajev2001a said:
Haha, ok as long as you remain so open minded there is a chance ;).
Click to expand...
)) if you talk about ...the question if variable clock came in to gain perf on a 9tf soc? i don't think so I'll not change my mind.
if you talk about the fact that the ps5 will be a great console. I have no doubt. I have see the loading times of Miles morales. incredible !! next gen will be amazing whatever console you get
 
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MonarchJT said:
ok so if Cerny and Sony now need to build the largest console in history by making up their own lives with higher frequencies and variable clocks and billions of differents patents that copies rdna2 features... consuming more watts ... all of this at the same price as those who have more performance..full rdna2 features .. less watts ..and smaller sizes. Well if that's the case for you .... at sony it's better if they change the hw designer and hw development team. topic closed

I repeat you do not have to convince me. for me the thing is clear I will not change my mind.
Click to expand...
The only hole being dug here is your own. I'm not trying to convince you that PS5 is somehow more powerful. I'm merely telling you there's nothing new to this FUD narrative about the PS5. As for its size, yeah, big console for big cooling I suppose. As for price, you can pick up the digital edition for $100 less than Series X if that makes you feel better. Also, there is no "copying" RDNA2 features. Sony has been co-developing Navi with AMD since the beginning and chose what was right for PS5 internals just like Microsoft has with Series X. RDNA is the foundation in which these systems are built on. They've both arrive at the same place but with different customizations.

Whatever. Don't let me ruin your fun.
tumblr_n1vhxbePJG1qe8f1ko1_500.png
 
Dave_at_Home said:
The only hole being dug here is your own. I'm not trying to convince you that PS5 is somehow more powerful. I'm merely telling you there's nothing new to this FUD narrative about the PS5. As for its size, yeah, big console for big cooling I suppose. As for price, you can pick up the digital edition for $100 less than Series X if that makes you feel better. Also, there is no "copying" RDNA2 features. Sony has been co-developing Navi with AMD since the beginning and chose what was right for PS5 internals just like Microsoft has with Series X. RDNA is the foundation in which these systems are built on. They've both arrive at the same place but with different customizations.

Whatever. Don't let me ruin your fun.
tumblr_n1vhxbePJG1qe8f1ko1_500.png
Click to expand...
oook
 
"Full RDNA 2"
"PS5 is not full RDNA 2"

A lot of Xbox fans are now using the term "full RDNA 2". Microsoft loves using these buzzwords because they know the small Xbox community will eat it up. If in the end this just means Sony decided to go with their own features and removed desktop features, then the Xbox community were fooled by PR yet again.

This reminds me of the "True 4K" speech Phil game at E3. He said devs must deliver True 4K gaming and this was nothing more than a huge lie. Yes, the console does play games at Native 4K or it reaches 4K more of then than the PS4 Pro, but it's still not at "True 4K" gaming console.

People need to wait until facts come out first before celebrating.
 
MonarchJT said:
)) if you talk about ...the question if variable clock came in to gain perf on a 9tf soc? i don't think so I'll not change my mind.
if you talk about the fact that the ps5 will be a great console. I have no doubt. I have see the loading times of Miles morales. incredible !! next gen will be amazing whatever console you get
Click to expand...

They probably decided on a 36CU arrangement for convenience in terms of backwards compatibility. Its evident that unlike MS, Sony want a minimal software layer solution and were looking for something that can emulate their older systems quite closely at the hardware level.

Proceeding from that assumption the logical path for optimal performance gain is overall chip efficiency, with clock-speed being a major driver for that. There's no evidence of the design being pivoted, its just been a process of refinement and incremental improvement.
 
During his live stream, tonight Moore's Law Is Dead YouTuber known for predictions on tech called out MS over their full RNDA 2 statement and also pointed out if you want to go down that road the Xbox would be 1.5 RNDA because it doesn't have infinity cash and PS5 has. Also claims PS5 has RDNA 3 features.

 
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It's like the title and first sentence (post 418 post-merge) were out of breath. Let me try and understand it.

YouTube channel named "Moore's Law Is Dead", who makes predictions, has new predictions.

Prediction 1: Xbox Series X|S doesn't have the full set of RNDA 2.0 features.

(There's something about infinity cash I don't really understand in the middle)

Prediction 2: PlayStation 5 has features that will be in the RNDA 3.0 set.

(There's already been a thread about PS5 having custom features that may make it to 3.0).
 
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:messenger_tears_of_joy:

These youtube tech channel dudes can't stand being wrong. Still waiting for Sony to come out and mention vrs, mesh shaders, sampler feed back etc.
 
These rumortubers really don't like Microsoft. Its so weird they think Sony and AMD have some special relationship. Microsoft and AMD co-develop many processors together for Surface PCs and Azure severs.
 
Dnice123 said:
These rumortubers really don't like Microsoft. Its so weird they think Sony and AMD have some special relationship. Microsoft and AMD co-develop many processors together for Surface PCs and Azure severs.
Click to expand...

He was right about nvidia new cards and AMD's also about RDNA 2
 
geordiemp said:
Maybe, everyone copies everyone else, question is who is the source and how close are some tech tubers to each other ? And who coughed first ? I am not into twitter gossip so I dont know.
Click to expand...
The hints for AMD's Infinity Cache for the GPU was given at XSX's reveal.

MS claimed 76 MB cache for SoC and Zen 2 CPU's cache configuration was the mobile version, hence leaving 64 MB cache for the GPU with two SE. MS didn't elaborate on the GPU's 64 MB cache for obvious reasons.

Quad SE (80 CU scale) version with 128 MB cache can be speculated.
 
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MonarchJT said:
)) if you talk about ...the question if variable clock came in to gain perf on a 9tf soc? i don't think so I'll not change my mind.
if you talk about the fact that the ps5 will be a great console. I have no doubt. I have see the loading times of Miles morales. incredible !! next gen will be amazing whatever console you get
Click to expand...
What's the 9TF soc?
 
nani17 said:
During his live stream, tonight Moore's Law Is Dead YouTuber known for predictions on tech called out MS over their full RNDA 2 statement and also pointed out if you want to go down that road the Xbox would be 1.5 RNDA because it doesn't have infinity cash and PS5 has. Also claims PS5 has RDNA 3 features.

Click to expand...

See, this is where holding your tongue and trying to stay out of these bullshit dick waving conversations gets really difficult. We have a guy here, in this video calling out MS about claims they have made about their architecture.
Now putting aside the fact that I have no idea what the credentials are of this fella in the field of computer science and engineering are, if any, why would guys like Jason Ronald and Andrew Goossen risk damaging their professional reputations by bullshitting about hardware designs they have, in some way or another, been involved with?
It makes absolutely zero sense for them to do so, if you apply even the tiniest bit of common sense in trying to understand the narrative that videos like this one are selling.
 
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Portugeezer said:
Not gonna lie, I thought it was a bit strange when, during XSX showcase, Phil Spencer referred to XSX as the most "consistently powerful" console or something... Like what? Either it's more powerful or it's not.

Maybe he was trying to take a jab at PS5 variable clocks, but it came off a bit weak, like PS5 is sometimes more powerful.
Click to expand...
it came off to me like they both know exactly what each other have. Same way Sony left no mystery about their hard drive set up.

If one is talking about something it means they think they one upped the other.
 
pullcounter said:
He has legit sources. A few days before the RDNA2 event, he said exactly what AMD would be showing. 10 games, with their card delivering better performance than the nvidia cards, especially at 1440p. he also said how often the amd cards came out on top and how often they tied

RGT is one of the guys in YT I would follow,if you're interested in rumors
Click to expand...

“Big Navi” not so Big? – Coreteks

coreteks.tech coreteks.tech
Date: 3 months ago

"According to the same sources AMD is aiming to launch the "Big Navi" as a direct competitor to the soon to be launched RTX 3080"
---
There were skepticisms with BiG NAVI.
 
MonarchJT said:
I'm not trolling amd will not release a discrete pc gpu with only 36 cu's
Click to expand...
NAVI 22 may have 40 and 36 CU scaled RDNA 2 based GPU which is important for AMD's mobile gaming laptops.

Read https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/amd-navi-22.g951 for RX 6700 and RX 6700 XT

Xbox Series S's APU chip size with RDNA 2 GPU with 22 CU ASIC design scale is close to Ryzen 4000 series APU chip size. Expect Zen 3 + RDNA 2 iGP APU version for the PC market.

Infinity Cache will be important to overcome 128-bit DDR4/DDR5 limitations.
 
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ThugDev said:
Infinity cache 128mb takes up 100+mm^2 on RX 6000 series.

The PS5 SOC is ~310mm^2.

Do the math.
Click to expand...
Scale down 128 MB Infinity Cache to dual SE with 40 CU design. It would be stupid to recycle RX 5700/5700 XT's memory bandwidth while loading it up with a heavy memory bandwidth-consuming BVH raytracing search engine. PS5 GPU should have Infinity Cache greater than 32 MB.
 
Good to see that most people here know that a console having a feature or two before it's implemented in desktop GPU's isn't some crazy things that never happens.

Not saying it's confirmed but acting like it's impossible or unlikely is very... vetted
 
As a person who pre-ordered a PS5....

I dgaf until someone points it out in a trailer or something. Games > Tweets
 
MonarchJT said:
I never said there will be an ABYSSAL difference but one will have a clear advantage ... but the real problem here is that consoles cost the same price. I've explained 100 times why I think it's a last year (or around there) rework. and I'll repeat it again if you want.The console didn't changed "design" they added the variable clock part and upclocked it ...the console was designed to have lower (not by a lot) performance and the same cu's number. The target was probably those 9.something TFs that were rumored to be Oberon (github leak). Then we start to see the first real images of the ps5 and it's monstrously big ... the biggest console in history. Then comes the official teardown and we find out that on the official ps5 SOC we have the same AMD Oberon code. All this is even stranger if we compare the two consoles .... less powerful,not contemplated as full rdna2, much larger, consumes more watts with less silicon and cost the same.. a design gap that is not often seen.
We heard ms talking about waiting amd for the new full rdna2 architecture and this point out again to oberon and how it was possible for Sony to have the soc already in his hands. We have millions of rumors about how ps5 devkits were already in the hands of developers when no Xbox devkits were out yet...etc etc etc
the liquid metal the enormous and expensive heatsink to mitigate the clock problem. Sony could not present the ps5 with 9 tf. we all know how long the enthusiast would see it as a shit console and the echo chamber generated would only create problems. If this is little for you, I don't know what else to say
Click to expand...
Free to believe whatever you want but please we can't stop with that last minute boost in TF because variable clock? It's really childish and completely ignorant to spread such misinformation. You can't do such things when you work with a SOC, they can screw everything. I repeat someone can believe whatever he want but we need to stop to pretend to be taken seriously with such fanboystic stuff . And yes to have more CUs is a good things but quantify this advantage it's another story
 
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Shmunter said:
Sort of like PS5 has no raytracing etc?
Click to expand...
Well, RX 6800 XT has the following

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 21, 2250 MHz, 4608 Cores, 288 TMUs, 128 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2000 MHz, 256 bit
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
Architecture Codename: Navi
Codename: Sienna Cichlid
Graphics/Compute: GFX10 (gfx1030)
Display Core Next: 3.0
Video Core Next: 3.0


RDNA 2 is still in the GFX10 family just like NAVI 10 (RX 5600XT/5700/5700 XT).



www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT Specs

AMD Navi 10, 1905 MHz, 2560 Cores, 160 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 8192 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
Architecture Codename: Navi
Codename: Fighter
Old Codename: Bermuda
CLRX Version: GCN 1.5.0
Graphics/Compute: GFX10 (gfx1010)
Display Core Next: 2.0
Video Core Next: 2.0



For CLRX Version: GCN 1.5.0, NAVI can still run GCN wave64 instructions for backward compatibility.
 
ThugDev said:
Infinity cache 128mb takes up 100+mm^2 on RX 6000 series.

The PS5 SOC is ~310mm^2.

Do the math.
Click to expand...


Being that PS5 is 36CUs vs 60 , 72 & 80CU RX 6000 chips it wouldn't need 128MB so it could be 64MB or 32MB of SRAM one thing for sure is that PS5 has a pool of SCAM on the SoC

gbZmNC.jpg
 
Dave_at_Home said:
The only hole being dug here is your own. I'm not trying to convince you that PS5 is somehow more powerful. I'm merely telling you there's nothing new to this FUD narrative about the PS5. As for its size, yeah, big console for big cooling I suppose. As for price, you can pick up the digital edition for $100 less than Series X if that makes you feel better. Also, there is no "copying" RDNA2 features. Sony has been co-developing Navi with AMD since the beginning and chose what was right for PS5 internals just like Microsoft has with Series X. RDNA is the foundation in which these systems are built on. They've both arrive at the same place but with different customizations.

Whatever. Don't let me ruin your fun.
Click to expand...
Not correct.
www.anandtech.com

All Ryzen: Q&A with AMD CEO Dr. Lisa Su

www.anandtech.com www.anandtech.com

David Wang, AMD: We started RDNA before the Sony engagement.

Don't let me ruin your fun.
 
rnlval said:
Scale down 128 MB Infinity Cache to dual SE with 40 CU design. It would be stupid to recycle RX 5700/5700 XT's memory bandwidth while loading it up with a heavy memory bandwidth-consuming BVH raytracing search engine. PS5 GPU should have Infinity Cache greater than 32 MB.
Click to expand...

We will know for sure when the die shots come out after the console releases. Even 8MB of Sram would be obvious.
 
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