It's coarse and rough and irritating: Lucas admits his Star Wars prequels dialogue 'is pretty corny'
Even the creator of Star Wars admits that Anakin's infamous sand soliloquy might've been a step too far.
George Lucas on the Prequel's dialog: 'Most people don't understand the style of Star Wars.'
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
ArtemisClydeFrog
Banned
George Lucas is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars.
Yellow Yoshi
Neo Member
He's kinda right.
Great actors such Ewan McGregor and Natalie Portman tried their best and made them work most of the time.
But a so-so actor such Hayden Christensen really made them feel like they were written by Ed Wood himself.
The real problem of the movies is the overall fake-ness, imo. It's not a movie, it's a 2-hour long blue screen effect.
Great actors such Ewan McGregor and Natalie Portman tried their best and made them work most of the time.
But a so-so actor such Hayden Christensen really made them feel like they were written by Ed Wood himself.
The real problem of the movies is the overall fake-ness, imo. It's not a movie, it's a 2-hour long blue screen effect.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
There's a surprising amount of practical effects in the prequels, even in something like Attack of the Clones that looks like a cartoon now. Its not on the level of Hobbit trilogy, for example, which is very much a cartoon. But I know what you mean.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That lack of sincerity was a big part of what killed the Disney trilogy for me.
Nhranaghacon
Banned
In comes new talent, and they do one thing exceedingly better - insure the acting/flow/pacing is on par with modern standards.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Nope. Was shit. Will always be shit.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I actually don't think he is wrong. The original trilogy is pretty hokey and stilted too. The prequels have a whole heap of issues but the gap between the two trilogies is not as large as Gen Xers think.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
The prequels, for all their flaws, still have a discernable plot which makes sense, even if sometimes executed poorly. Lucas' overall vision was still pretty good, even if he should've left some of the details to other people or had fewer "yes" men around. The sequels are basically the polar opposite: where you've got a lot of the smaller details right and characters that "feel" like Star Wars, but whatever the fuck is happening on screen at any given moment feels completely pointless and disjointed from anything else that happened before it. I honestly think I'd keep the prequels and jettison the sequels if made to choose.
BattleMonkey
Member
OT while having some goofy lines, still for the most part was acted and directed a shit ton better. Sorry but someone had to direct Sam Jackson to act that bad. You had a lot of great talent struggling to work with that script and direction. You had far better performances overall from the OT crew.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Absolutely. The sequels made me somehow appreciate the prequels, which is crazy to me.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
otm. he wrote the dialog in a very classical way. it is stilted and weird because people talk the way they talk in myths rather than real life. this will help make the films stand up to time.
you look at the new movies, and people think they are way better, but they use a lot of current slang that was iffy when the movies came out and will only be worse with time.
Lucas has always had a galaxy brain approach to his stuff. this is why he is so far ahead of everyone else.
you look at the new movies, and people think they are way better, but they use a lot of current slang that was iffy when the movies came out and will only be worse with time.
Lucas has always had a galaxy brain approach to his stuff. this is why he is so far ahead of everyone else.
sol_bad
Member
Really?
Please explain the plot in Phantom Menace regarding the Trade Federation and what their intentions are and how they're related to Palpatine etc.
Tschumi
Member
I wish i could go back to Phantom Menace. Pod Racer. Jedi Power Battles. And contemporary Star Wars releases like Jedi Knight 2 and later KOTOR.. It was a fantastic time to be a starwars fan. So the movie itself had a few cringy elements.. anyone who doesn't cringe at Return of the Jedi is blind~
On topic: what he says is legitimate, we can't all fucking expect star wars to be game of thrones in space.. if star wars had been hideously self serious and stoic we wouldn't have got the same chewie or Han.
On topic: what he says is legitimate, we can't all fucking expect star wars to be game of thrones in space.. if star wars had been hideously self serious and stoic we wouldn't have got the same chewie or Han.
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Captain Zyrain
Member
He DID manage to create Top Tier Memes with the prequels.. and that didn't really happen till many years later. Just think how popular HELLO THERE will be in the year 2999?
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Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
The Trade Federation has been manipulated into conflict by Palpatine playing both sides as Darth Sidious and his persona as Senator Palpatine. This creates a crisis/opportunity where he's able to ascend to Chancellor after Padme/Amidala moves for a vote of no confidence in the current Chancellor. Meanwhile, his force love child is discovered and begins his training with the Jedi. I mean the taxation dispute or whatever isn't really important, he created a crises and used the opportunity to move up and was able to keep ratcheting things up until he could declare the Jedi traitors and himself emperor and people went along with it. He slow boiled the frog for three movies.
If I could redo things I'd skip most of TPM, bring in Anakin as a young padawan instead of a child and start from there so the fall to the dark side is less abrupt and jarring but meh, it's still a plot that is believable, scenes are connected to each other, fits within the lore, etc. It has pacing issues and execution is flawed but it still makes sense.
finowns
Member
The trade federation is completely controlled by Palpatine. He creates the crisis so he can use the conflict to gain power and weaken the republic.
Liu Kang filing his 1040
Banned
"It is presented very honestly and it's played to the hilt,"
"It's in the more romantic period of making movies and adventure films. And this film is even more of a melodrama than the others."
But I guess he's right
I mean, look at the theatrical cut of A New Hope
look, Star Wars fucking sucks and it took 8 consecutive bad movies to prove it
"It's in the more romantic period of making movies and adventure films. And this film is even more of a melodrama than the others."
But I guess he's right
I mean, look at the theatrical cut of A New Hope
look, Star Wars fucking sucks and it took 8 consecutive bad movies to prove it
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Nope.
You can revise history to say the prequels were sort of okay. You can say they had better overall story themes than the sequel trilogy, better characters, more light saber battles.
But the single, solitary thing you cannot do under any circumstances is tell me that they had good dialogue.
You can revise history to say the prequels were sort of okay. You can say they had better overall story themes than the sequel trilogy, better characters, more light saber battles.
But the single, solitary thing you cannot do under any circumstances is tell me that they had good dialogue.
Jon Neu
Banned
Fix'd.
-Arcadia-
Banned
He’s right, but not in the way he thinks.
He now almost completely sees Star Wars as a modern day Flash Gordon type of thing.
His audience sees Star Wars as it always was, and as he used to, something more mature and nuanced, a little bit Flash Gordon, a little bit classic Samurai films, a little bit Hero’s Journey, a little bit it’s own wonderful thing and mythology.
This is the divergence that makes the prequels so controversial.
The same thing happened when George thought Indiana Jones’ tone should change with the era (1950s for that movie), and swapped out fascinating religious artifact stories, and adventure pulp, for aliens, nukes, and conspiracy theories.
He doesn’t understand (or perhaps care, given these claims of making these movies for himself) that his evolving view on his creations, does not extend to everyone who watches them.
He now almost completely sees Star Wars as a modern day Flash Gordon type of thing.
His audience sees Star Wars as it always was, and as he used to, something more mature and nuanced, a little bit Flash Gordon, a little bit classic Samurai films, a little bit Hero’s Journey, a little bit it’s own wonderful thing and mythology.
This is the divergence that makes the prequels so controversial.
The same thing happened when George thought Indiana Jones’ tone should change with the era (1950s for that movie), and swapped out fascinating religious artifact stories, and adventure pulp, for aliens, nukes, and conspiracy theories.
He doesn’t understand (or perhaps care, given these claims of making these movies for himself) that his evolving view on his creations, does not extend to everyone who watches them.
ArtemisClydeFrog
Banned
Anyone remember those long candy bar lookin ass "trading cards" they came out with before Episode 1?
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Sometimes when I think back to the melodrama of Qui Gon Jin betting to win slave Anakin with Watto I just... I get a bit misty eyed
Virt McPolygon
Banned
Is that what The Village was also going for? That dialog delivery was fuckin awful.
sol_bad
Member
First paragraph, very convoluted compared to "rescue princess and blow up Death Star" or "First Order is pursuing us and we need to figure out how to escape them". We don't even understand how the Trade Federation was manipulated or what is in it for them, what do they gain for creating this blockade.
Second paragraph, this I agree with 100%.
OK, you explained the basic premise in a sentence or 2, you got me there. But the way that premise plays out on screen is very convoluted, especially since it's interspersed with the Anakin story. Chances of someone new to the franchise who has never watched a Star Wars film picking up on Palpatine being behind everything are very slim.
ArtemisClydeFrog
Banned
"It is presented very honestly and it's played to the hilt,"
"It's in the more romantic period of making movies and adventure films. And this film is even more of a melodrama than the others."
But I guess he's right
I mean, look at the theatrical cut of A New Hope
look, Star Wars fucking sucks and it took 8 consecutive bad movies to prove it
1 v 1 me in Animal Crossing right now kid
Bolivar687
Banned
George is right, people take it too serious, it's just there to take you to the next action sequence and factor in the overall archetypal story.
Svengoolie007
Banned
I was going to make my own thread, but since this is here I guess I'll just ask here. Do you think George really intended for Vader to be Luke's father from the beginning? I have to think he didn't, considering he got James Earl Jones to voice him. It's obviously a black voice.
Master of Disguise
Banned
He has maintained this since the early 2000s. Lucas was always very open about his influences and the kind of films he wanted to make. The fact is, a lot of people who don't like certain films in the PT or the PT as a whole do not like the kind of film he wanted to make. It's melodrama. Overt melodrama. A lot of silent film influences, too, so you get these very overwrought facial expressions in Attack of the Clones which owes a lot to Metropolis and stuff like that. You know Anakin is angry when his mother dies in his arms because he looks at the camera like he wants to murder it, as the music rises to a shrill crescendo.
Star Wars is a weird film franchise because people approach it with such harsh preconceptions instead of trying to understand what Lucas as a filmmaker was trying to make. What he was trying to convey. There's also an effort to downplay Lucas's well demonstrated chops as a director before he made Star Wars. There is an effort to claim that he didn't intend the political themes in Star Wars despite him making very political student films. Lucas is an art film director, basically, making weird space opera films for children intended to teach children moral and life lessons. The PT is designed to teach children how to deal with fear, and how they, like Anakin, could be pulled to the dark side. Star Wars is Lucas's sincere art. They're not always perfect, but they are always sincere.
This is what Kayne West meant when he talked about the Prequels vs the Sequel Trilogy. All six Lucas films are the product of an artist working with a huge team that trusted him, and he them. They were in uncharted territory, making films for the sake of art, really. The merch existed to fund more films. Lucas wasn't making these movies so he could live a cushy life. He had a genuine passion for making movies. This is sorely missing from Star Wars without him. The entire purpose of these movies has changed. Star Wars 1-3 exist because Lucas wanted to tell the story of Anakin Skywalker that existed in his head. Star Wars 7-9 exist to make money, even if the people involved did work hard and they didn't necessarily make BAD films.
Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith suffer from compositing issues due to the bleeding edge digital cameras used. Chroma is lower resolution than luma. So you have issues with getting a clean mask to mix the backgrounds and the foregrounds. It's why The Phantom Menace has a much cleaner image. It was shot on cameras. And it looks beautiful. Attack of the Clones was so revolutionary for filmmaking, but it suffered for being at the bleeding edge. I think the film has some amazing scenes, though.There's a surprising amount of practical effects in the prequels, even in something like Attack of the Clones that looks like a cartoon now. Its not on the level of Hobbit trilogy, for example, which is very much a cartoon. But I know what you mean.
No, originally Anakin Skywalker was a different character. Lucas had a general plan in place by the time he was making Return of the Jedi, but he was really loosy goosy for the first two films. Merging the two characters was a massive, out of left field twist. And it worked. JEJ was never meant to be the face under the mask, though. He didn't want to be credited on the film because he viewed his performance as "special effects", not traditional acting. This was a complex issue back then because the Exorcist had an uncredited actress doing the demon voice, for example. But he was given credit as the voice.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's like poetry. Busta Rymes.
teezzy
Banned
Master of Disguise
Very well articulated and accurate. Star Wars started out as a passion project compiling Lucas' adoration of Buck Rogers, Kurosawa and Fritz Lang. Dude wears his influences on his sleeve. He never could have expected the IP to turn into what it did. No wonder he assumed that same earnesty would results in equivalent levels of success for the proceeding trilogy. People who trash George just dont get it
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BluRayHiDef
Banned
Regardless of the consensus regarding the prequel trilogy, Revenge of the Sith is the best film in the Star Wars franchise; it has the most intense drama, the most intense and entertaining action sequences, and the most suspenseful plot.
Tschumi
Member
You know, I've watched The Hidden Fortress. That Princess is suffocatingly caricatured. The two clumsy dudes who turned in to c3p0 and r2d2 are annoying. The hero and his nemesis are pretty legit.. anyway, you guys are holding it to too high a standard, as i said in my earlier post here.
Master of Disguise
Banned
Star Wars ruined Lucas, really. If SW had just done moderately well, he would have gone on to direct lots of different films on different subjects and in different genres. But Star Wars became this blockbuster monster, and Lucas ended up feeling responsible for keeping the Lucasfilm empire going once it reached a certain size. People forget that Lucas tried to bring in outside directors for the Prequel Trilogy because he sincerely believed that a new director for each film was good (he only intended to direct Episode 7, as well, with 8 and 9 being given to other people), but the directors he asked turned him down, and the film's sponsors then put pressure on him to direct. So he ended up spending like 11 years of his life from 1994 to 2005 doing nothing but working on Star Wars.
Very well articulated and accurate. Star Wars started out as a passion project compiling Lucas' adoration of Buck Rogers, Kurosawa and Fritz Lang. Dude wears his influences on his sleeve. He never could have expected the IP to turn into what it did. No wonder he assumed that same earnesty would results in equivalent levels of success for the proceeding trilogy. People who trash George just dont get it
A major reason he sold to Disney was because he wanted the employees to keep their jobs and to keep making Star Wars. Just because he was tired, and wanted to get on with his life didn't meant he was going to spitefully take his ball and go home.
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sol_bad
Member
Are you really going to sit there and say that with a straight face? You said it yourself, the prequel films were made for children. And Lucas made sure he had a hundred different alien designs and a hundred different vehicle designs so he could sell millions of toys.
Episode 7 and 8 were made with JJ and Rian Johnsons visions in mind. They were allowed to create what they wanted. The story and characters is what were in their minds. They wanted to tell a story, not make an advertisement for toys.
And if Lucas does have a genuine passion for film? Why did he stop? Why didn't he keep pushing forward and create new films with new ideas despite what the crazy fans said? Why hasn't he pushed technology forward? Why has he vanished from the industry.
Master of Disguise
Banned
All the Star Wars films were made for children. Star Wars is aimed at children. Modeled after the TV serials Lucas loved as a boy. They teach moral lessons to children. You have to remember that the Star Wars films were indie movies. They had some backers, but in order to keep creative control, Lucas self-funded the movies. After the studios didn't understand THX 1138 and wanted to cut the shit out of it and then shelved it, he realized his art would never be realized unless he had money. A lot of money. The only reason you can watch THX 1138 is because Lucas bought the film with his own money. Merch sales were instrumental in Lucas keeping control over his film empire and not losing creative control to film executives, which is exactly what has happened with films like The Rise of Skywalker.
TFA and TROS are corporate slop. TFA is not inherently bad as a movie, but it is craven, cowardly, "give the fans what they want" fan-service nonsense. It picks the bones of Lucas's story ideas but twists it into something Lucas would never have agreed to be a part of. JJ Abrams is not a good filmmaker. He is an imitator of better filmmakers without a single original thought in his head. He makes slick, empty films that make a lot of money. Pure style over substance, and this is way more overt in his Star Trek movies. Again, they're not necessarily bad movies, but they're missing the heart and soul of the films they're mimicking. Being empty is far worse than being unpolished or pushing VFX technology too far.
Because he had spent years and years and years of his life on this stuff, and wanted to move on. Artists get tired, you know. Maybe he'll come back in a few years and direct some interesting movies. I hope he does. But I've accepted his right to retreat and focus on his personal life. Lucas was pushing technology forward all the way up until he left LucasArts. The technology behind the Mandalorian, which allows them to create virtual sets at a fraction of the cost, is the realization of technology he and his team were working on for years, when they were developing Star Wars: Underworld, a hugely ambitious Star Wars TV show project which was trying to be the most ambitious TV show ever created with movie quality VFX at a fraction of the cost. The show never got beyond test shots because the tech simply wasn't ready. But Lucas and his dreams are the reason The Mandalorian exists. It's why the people behind shows like The Mandalorian hold Lucas in high regard and care about his opinion of their work.
Lucas reinvented cinema twice. Once when he made the OT. He changed how films were edited. How VFX was done. Again when he made the PT. Revolutionizing the way movies are made and changing the landscape of cinema twice in a row is a lot more than most people have done in their lifetimes. Marvel movies exist because Lucas defied conventional filmmaking wisdom to pioneer modern digital, VFX-synergized filmmaking with Attack of the Clones. We take so much for granted.
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carlosrox
Banned
Lucas/Prequel haters are annoying as fuck.
Buncha A.D.D Family Guy loving fucks who think everything is HILAAAAARIOUS.
George Lucas is right, he's smarter and more talented than you, he knows better than you, and he's 100% right.
Not that the prequels are without flaws or some bad acting/overly silly moments but holy fuck at how people act when it comes to these movies.
Buncha A.D.D Family Guy loving fucks who think everything is HILAAAAARIOUS.
George Lucas is right, he's smarter and more talented than you, he knows better than you, and he's 100% right.
Not that the prequels are without flaws or some bad acting/overly silly moments but holy fuck at how people act when it comes to these movies.
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They are his movies he can/could do what he wanted to and he did. Thats fine.
But the movies are bad.
Part 1 - plot is convoluted and makes no sense. Im fine with kid Anakin
Part 2 - Awful acting. And I blame the director for this. He is known to not be an "actor director". Also way too much green screen.
Part 3 - Acceptable to me, but still the plot had big problems. Padme goes from announcing pregnancy to giving birth in like a week. Her whole arc is sidelined she becomes a throw away character. Acting is still bad, I sitll blame Lucas for that.
But this is me picking apart the movies. They are still fun its all good, just backseat commentary.
newtypepilot
Member
As flawed as the prequels were, they are still way better than the sequel trilogy because they had a consistent direction. Disney clearly had no vision for E7-9 and were just winging it as they go along.