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[On Demand]

Who do you think owns windows? Your grandma?

MS owns Windows. They own xbox. They put their games on their windows store, which they own. That is their business. Not the incoherent words you typed there.

They aren't desperate. If they are one ounce of serious about xbox, they would have had tons of studios at the thumbs. I am glad, MS is dumb sometimes. Because serious MS is fucking scary.

Sony depends on their console, because that is what generates alot of money for their company. If you take the hardware business away, they will lose tons of money, and their company as a whole will face money issues.

Now let's back to gaming. Pc market is bigger than the 3 consoles. That is a fact there. There is alot of money to make.
You can sit there, and depend on your hardware. But your competitors will make tons of money, while you sit there.

Sony can play their slowly game, but sooner or later, MS would make banks from pc community, and strengthen their hardware business. Because every money gained from pc, is a potential studio for them.

You can go fuck right off with that grandma bit. Like really fuck off.


Your pointless points still doesn't address the point i'm making and why you people are limiting this multiplatform holy grail of the century to PC.

Please stop comparing Sony and MS. MS needs PC, Sony doesn't.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Are they writing an article like this for Nintendo as well?

Depends on which influencer contributor is persuaded to

 

[On Demand]

Great article! Glad Forbes is calling Sony out on this.

Hopefully we see Sony do better this gen. I expect the gap from PS5 release to PC to shrink considerably, maybe to a year. Six months even once we start seeing PS5 games drop as quickly as PS4 games did.

Calling Sony out?

Do better this generation?

What on earth. LMAO.

 

[kingfey]

Yes.

Maybe you're not old enough to remember but this isn't Microsoft/xbox's first rodeo with the PC market.

Microsoft are a software company, Sony are a hardware company. Even if they might play in the same spaces, they have different approaches and goals. It's like you're forgetting Microsoft own Windows or something. As a business they will feel like they have a responsibility to feed it from a gaming perspective, especially since Nadella took charge.

Sony are just dumping games on third party stores with little to no fuss - like I said bonus money. They aren't trying to create an "ecosystem" within PC, they aren't trying to create a cross platform "ecosystem" between PC and playstation and they certainly aren't forcing people to sign in to PSN or use third party software to launch their games on PC.

Other than the point of sale revenue there is no other benefit for Sony selling their games on PC. It's a completely different story for Xbox and Microsoft as a whole due to them owning Windows.

I understand Sony is a hardware company. They make alot of money from that. No denying it. And that MS owns Windows too.

But we are talking steam here. It got 28.2m concurrent users in 1 day. That is alot of engagement to the service. Windows store on other hand, is garbage. Pc community avoid that. MS acknowledged it, and are trying to fix it.

3rd party still exist on pc and consoles. That is not a problem. Console players didn't leave consoles, when their 3rd party come to pc. And they won't too, if console exclusive come to pc. Because Console offer alot of value, compared to pc. You won't face pc issues, when you have a console.

In to the pc sales.
Any 1st party xbox sales on steam, 70% of them goes to xbox. 40$ price range at 4m sales x 70%= that is $112m sales for 1 game. If Xbox released 10 games on steam day1 that year, and they all sell close to 4m. That is $1.12b for xbox. That is massive funding for xbox.

As for console users lost, they get replaced by the new generation. If you have an 8 year old kid during xbox one/ps4 generation, they will be old enough to own xseries/ps5 now. Every kid that is grown up with minecraft/fortnite will own these consoles. Any person who leaves these consoles, won't leave a hole, since these kids take their place.
That is something you need to look at it.

 

[Lognor]

Calling Sony out?

Do better this generation?

What on earth. LMAO.

Do better with PC ports. What's so hard to understand about that? Sony's biggest competitor is putting games on PC day one. There is a huge gap between day one content on PC and a three to four year gap. Sony needs to shrink that gap considerably, and they will. Like I said, I'm expecting that gap to shrink to one year, and then probably even less once more PS5s are sold.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[arvfab]

Sony's biggest competitor is putting games on PC day one.

Must have missed the Nintendo games on PC....

 

[Lognor]

That's all the proof you need right there that Sony needs to do better.

They've been selling GOW for $10-$20 the last several years on PS4. They could have been getting a lot more revenue releasing it on PC. Those PC numbers would have been even higher. PC gamers that also own a PS4 might have said what the heck, it's only $10. I'll take the subpar experience because of the value. Now if it was on PC at that same time, PC gamers would gladly have paid a lot more for the PC version since it's superior.

Must have missed the Nintendo games on PC....

Nintendo is doing their own thing. As we've seen in Japan, Sony can't really compete with Nintendo. They should be competing with Microsoft. Which we have seen them do with locking down content to keep it off Xbox. If Nintendo was their competition they wouldn't be paying for exclusives like FF VIIR because that game would never run on Switch anyway. They pay for it to keep it off Xbox, their true competition.

 

[Topher]

Do better with PC ports. What's so hard to understand about that? Sony's biggest competitor is putting games on PC day one. There is a huge gap between day one content on PC and a three to four year gap. Sony needs to shrink that gap considerably, and they will. Like I said, I'm expecting that gap to shrink to one year, and then probably even less once more PS5s are sold.

The problem here is this idea that Sony and Microsoft are competitors in all things gaming. They are not. They are competing for console market share. That's it. On PC, they are publishers just like Ubisoft, Take Two, EA, etc. Nothing more. Trying to extend the console war into the PC gaming space is silly.

The reasons for putting games on PC is for additional revenue, not to help beat Xbox.

 

[arvfab]

They should be competing with Microsoft

They are already doing better than them, thou.... Why should they adapt to the ones doing worse?

 

[Lognor]

The problem here is this idea that Sony and Microsoft are competitors in all things gaming. They are not. They are competing for console market share. That's it. On PC, they are publishers just like Ubisoft, Take Two, EA, etc. Nothing more. Trying to extend the console war into the PC gaming space is silly.

That's not true anymore. Microsoft has gone beyond the console space in gaming with Game Pass, with streaming, etc. I could see Sony doing a storefront on PC once they have more content. There is a ton of potential growth there, especially when you factor in streaming. You won't need a PS5 or XSX to play the latest games. You'll stream them on the app on your tv or on your PC. Or at least that's where MS is headed. Sony is a bit behind on streaming as well.

 

[On Demand]

Do better with PC ports. What's so hard to understand about that? Sony's biggest competitor is putting games on PC day one. There is a huge gap between day one content on PC and a three to four year gap. Sony needs to shrink that gap considerably, and they will. Like I said, I'm expecting that gap to shrink to one year, and then probably even less once more PS5s are sold.

They don't need to do anything. Their games sell more than fine as is.

Needing to do something means a lack of a previous thing. Sony games aren't lacking in revenue or sales.

 

[kingfey]

Consoles generate more revenue than PC.

Either way, both Microsoft and Sony are third party publishers on Steam. There is no direct competition between them on PC like there is with consoles.

Consoles have 3 market (Sony+xbox+Nintendo) vs pc market. That is still a pc market win. Since it generated $35b without hardware sales, online subscription, controllers. If you add graphic cards to pc, and other pc contents, like consoles, pc market would generated more than that.

Steam allows each company to compete. It provides them users. Making your own store on pc is risky, like epic store. That is what is good about it. Healthy competition.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[akaFullmetal]

Fun fact: Sony doesn't give a shit about you, and your loyalty.

Ah......okay. Thanks for finding those facts for me.

 

[arvfab]

Consoles have 3 market (Sony+xbox+Nintendo) vs pc market. That is still a pc market win. Since it generated $35b without hardware sales, online subscription, controllers. If you add graphic cards to pc, and other pc contents, like consoles, pc market would generated more than that.

Steam allows each company to compete. It provides them users. Making your own store on pc is risky, like epic store. That is what is good about it. Healthy competition.

Going by that graph, one could argue that they should all invest in mobile first.... And it seems to be common opinion we are all grateful they are not doing it, isn't it?

 

[kingfey]

Going by that graph, one could argue that they should all invest in mobile first.... And it seems to be common opinion we are all grateful they are not doing it, isn't it?

That would nice. Give us few mobile games. Not shit mobile games. Just normal psp graphic games.

 

[Topher]

That's not true anymore. Microsoft has gone beyond the console space in gaming with Game Pass, with streaming, etc. I could see Sony doing a storefront on PC once they have more content. There is a ton of potential growth there, especially when you factor in streaming. You won't need a PS5 or XSX to play the latest games. You'll stream them on the app on your tv or on your PC. Or at least that's where MS is headed. Sony is a bit behind on streaming as well.

You say that's not true anymore then provide hypotheticals of how it might not be true one day. So yeah.....for now, it's absolutely true. Time will tell if that changes.

Consoles have 3 market (Sony+xbox+Nintendo) vs pc market. That is still a pc market win. Since it generated $35b without hardware sales, online subscription, controllers. If you add graphic cards to pc, and other pc contents, like consoles, pc market would generated more than that.

You said "Pc market is bigger than the 3 consoles.". You were wrong. And those numbers are games across the board, not hardware.

 

[arvfab]

That would nice. Give us few mobile games. Not shit mobile games. Just normal psp graphic games.

Nintendo is doing it. How many of their games are you playing?

 

[owandeseis]

You can see the ps5 production issue. What happens, when the next ps5 exclusive comes around, and the console has 35m sales. Do you think it can sell alot of copy, compared to xbox 20m console sale+pc community?

The more Sony waits, the more xbox gains alot of pc community users. And that means more money for MS 1st party, to make more games for them.

This is business dilemma for Sony. Either let xbox gain the upper hand in the pc market, or get in there now, and stop xbox dominance in the pc market.

At this point they can't stop Xbox from anything on the PC market, they just released God of War and it got nice numbers, if they released GoW:R i could see 3x-4x boost to around 200k, or whatever, 300k simultaneous players on launch, now that'd be terrible numbers for Starfield later this year, after all, PC gamers aren't that excited about third person action cinematic games, they like shooters (FPS) and RPG ( Western, the real ones ) , and there Sony has nothing to do against MS.

About your first phrase, if they manage to almost double Xbox's sales this generation, they'll be really happy, even if MS has better first party sales, you just have to take a look at the money Sony gets from DLC's, subscriptions, and third party sales on Playstation against what they get for their first party sales and you'll see what i mean.

What Sony has to do is to release all their future multiplayer projects day 1 on PC if they wanna have a chance to get a money maker monster, and then release all their other games 1-2 years after PS5 release, PC gamers won't really care about waiting just that, and then after 3-4 years they can think about releasing on first day or not, no hurries.

 

[kingfey]

Nintendo is doing it. How many of their games are you playing?

I didn't know about that. Last time, it was Dr Mario, and shit Mario kart.

Did they fix those? I was interested in their Mario kart mobile, before they did auto drive.

 

[SportsFan581]

Uhhh this is exactly my point.

There's a big difference between porting to PC and porting to the other brands console. Two different sets of gamers, the PC gamer there is no way to get locked into any one particular ecosystem, the best you can do in that regard is a subscription like GP. Everything is just going to be first-party game sales outside of that. Console can be a much more profitable space per users since you get to be steam in that instance and act as the store, plus you have the subscription revenue. It would be pretty stupid to make an effort to help sell the other brands console when you make one yourself. PC is a different thing, a PC gamer was never going to be a golden goose console gamer to begin with (likely no subscriptions for online play and only purchasing a select handful of first-party software) and you can still get those first-party sales from them while at the same time selling to all the PC gamers that don't see the value in paying $500 for a box they will play 4 or 5 games on.

 

[arvfab]

I didn't know about that. Last time, it was Dr Mario, and shit Mario kart.

Did they fix those? I was interested in their Mario kart mobile, before they did auto drive.

That's exactly the point. They have multiple games, all of them targeted to a casual, mobile only audience.

 

[On Demand]

Letting a astroturfer's clickbait article and opinions run amuck. I know.

Thats the whole idea though.

 

[kingfey]

About your first phrase, if they manage to almost double Xbox's sales this generation, they'll be really happy, even if MS has better first party sales, you just have to take a look at the money Sony gets from DLC's, subscriptions, and third party sales on Playstation against what they get for their first party sales and you'll see what i mean.

Dlc and mtx is like 30%. If a dlc cost 10$. That is 3$ for Sony. Sony will need 30 games to sell 1m dlcs to hit $90m. That is little bit more than 3m MS pc game sale at 40$(70%) which is at $84m. And you need those Sony games to not exist on xbox.

That is how much profit pc brings. It evens the odds between the 2 consoles.

What Sony has to do is to release all their future multiplayer projects day 1 on PC if they wanna have a chance to get a money maker monster, and then release all their other games 1-2 years after PS5 release, PC gamers won't really care about waiting just that, and then after 3-4 years they can think about releasing on first day or not, no hurries.

Sony will need to take time 1st. Releasing day1 now, at the level of their studio is suicidal. They don't have enough manpower for it. God of war took 2 years to bring it to pc. Doing pc version, will delay the console version more.

They will need to get more pc support studios 1st. Even if they do MP games, they still need to support it. You cant a rush a game to a PC community, and work on another game. Not MP game.

 

[kingfey]

That's exactly the point. They have multiple games, all of them targeted to a casual, mobile only audience.

That is not the same thing, as bringing your games to that device.

Nintendo is making banks from those games. Considering how cheap is it to make them. Just casual mobile game.

 

[arvfab]

That is not the same thing, as bringing your games to that device.

Nintendo is making banks from those games. Considering how cheap is it to make them. Just casual mobile game.

And how would you feel if Nintendo would take away resources dedicated to create their top-tier games, in order to make banks from those mobile games?

 

[ANDS]

Great article! Glad Forbes is calling Sony out on this.

Hopefully we see Sony do better this gen. I expect the gap from PS5 release to PC to shrink considerably, maybe to a year. Six months even once we start seeing PS5 games drop as quickly as PS4 games did.

Complete and utter day dream. No one has been called out. Tassi's article is little more than future-port begging.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

And how would you feel if Nintendo would take away resources dedicated to create their top-tier games, in order to make banks from those mobile games?

Who said anything about taking away resources?

 

[arvfab]

Who said anything about taking away resources?

Isn't it logical? For bringing a game day one on multiple platforms you require either more time or more manpower, or both. Both of which can be used for the actual game instead.

 

[On Demand]

There's a big difference between porting to PC and porting to the other brands console. Two different sets of gamers, the PC gamer there is no way to get locked into any one particular ecosystem, the best you can do in that regard is a subscription like GP. Everything is just going to be first-party game sales outside of that. Console can be a much more profitable space per users since you get to be steam in that instance and act as the store, plus you have the subscription revenue. It would be pretty stupid to make an effort to help sell the other brands console when you make one yourself. PC is a different thing, a PC gamer was never going to be a golden goose console gamer to begin with (likely no subscriptions for online play and only purchasing a select handful of first-party software) and you can still get those first-party sales from them while at the same time selling to all the PC gamers that don't see the value in paying $500 for a box they will play 4 or 5 games on.

Yeah no. I don’t buy the whole PC gaming is a separate audience thing.

Consumers make an informed decision whether to build, or buy, a gaming PC over buying a console. Just as those same consumers make decisions on which console to buy out of the 3.

Both console and PC are competing with each other.

Sony clearly still believes this despite the few unnecessary games on PC. They still do timed exclusives. Showing the value of having exclusive games on your platform to sell hardware and get revenue from subscriptions and MTX.

This makes me laugh since people are talking day one games and at the same time Sony is doing timed 3rd party exclusives.

This whole PC thing is silly in general, day one or not, because Sony is still serious about getting 3rd party exclusives.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Isn't it logical? For bringing a game day one on multiple platforms you require either more time or more manpower, or both. Both of which can be used for the actual game instead.

They purchased a whole company for this very thing so no for me it isn't logical in the least

 

[kingfey]

And how would you feel if Nintendo would take away resources dedicated to create their top-tier games, in order to make banks from those mobile games?

Can mobile run those games in the 1st place?

2nd: if it can, then there is no problem. They had wii u at 6.2 screen size. It has the same sizes as pro max, which is at 6.7 screen size.

3rd: Nintendo won't lose money making hardware. The device exist. With Nintendo store, they can buy it from there, and play on their phone.

People play games they like. People still play runescape.

 

[owandeseis]

Dlc and mtx is like 30%. If a dlc cost 10$. That is 3$ for Sony. Sony will need 30 games to sell 1m dlcs to hit $90m. That is little bit more than 3m MS pc game sale at 40$(70%) which is at $84m. And you need those Sony games to not exist on xbox.

That is how much profit pc brings. It evens the odds between the 2 consoles.



Sony will need to take time 1st. Releasing day1 now, at the level of their studio is suicidal. They don't have enough manpower for it. God of war took 2 years to bring it to pc. Doing pc version, will delay the console version more.

They will need to get more pc support studios 1st. Even if they do MP games, they still need to support it. You cant a rush a game to a PC community, and work on another game. Not MP game.

It's not even close, the ratio of physical/digital software was pretty much 50% so you can take another 6-7% from that 57% from the digital soft + DLC's etc.

And from the games sold, this is the first vs third party sales:

Safe to assume they also make more money from the 30% of all third party games sold than from their first first party.

And having Nixxes already on your team, you'd just have to hire some external studios like they did with GoW to be able to port everything, i mean, Sony has a lot of games yet to be ported to PC, but on recent ones, they don't make that many games per year, last one they got Returnal and Ratchet, this one Horizon, GT, GoW and maybe some Tlou remake, it's not a crazy number anyways.

And yes i still think that in 2022, to have a huge multiplayer hit you have to be on day 1 on PC, that's the platform for multiplayer games nowadays, but yes i also doubt Sony will do that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They purchased a whole company for this very thing so no for me it isn't logical in the least

While that’s true, I think some people made a good point in this thread that ‘coding to the metal’ under current circumstances that Sony 1P is known for, might have a possibility being less of a thing if extraction layers are taken into account day 0 to make that simul launch process “easier.” Time will tell of course.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Well that’s true, I think some people made a good point in this thread that ‘coding to the metal’ under current circumstances that Sony 1P is known for, might have a possibility being less of a thing if extraction layers are taken into account day 0 to make that simul launch process “easier.” Time will tell of course.

Possible obviously but IF it happens I have faith they will have some pretty smart people working on said problem so personally its not a concern for me

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Agreed.

 

[arvfab]

They purchased a whole company for this very thing so no for me it isn't logical in the least

Well if Nixxes is doing the ports AFTER the games released on a Playstation platform, without the game devs needing to take PC into consideration building their engine, then you are right (not counting the money spent to buy Nixxes). But that would exclude day one exclusives on PC.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I think Sony might be thinking of getting out of console business all together, and just make PlayStation as digital games distributor platform like Steam or Epic

Console manufacturing is very expensive, where digital platform like Steam is extremely profitable, very high profit margin

 

[SportsFan581]

This makes me laugh since people are talking day one games and at the same time Sony is doing timed 3rd party exclusives.

Those are a great example because most of Sony's 3rd party console launch exclusives also launch on PC on day one. Clearly they still see the value to the console space even if the game is still on PC.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Some aren’t even trying to hide it anymore in this thread.

 

[kingfey]

Yeah no. I don’t buy the whole PC gaming is a separate audience thing.

Consumers make an informed decision whether to build, or buy, a gaming PC over buying a console. Just as those same consumers make decisions on which console to buy out of the 3.

Both console and PC are competing with each other.

Sony clearly still believes this despite the few unnecessary games on PC. They still do timed exclusives. Showing the value of having exclusive games on your platform to sell hardware and get revenue from subscriptions and MTX.

This makes me laugh since people are talking day one games and at the same time Sony is doing timed 3rd party exclusives.

This whole PC thing is silly in general, day one or not, because Sony is still serious about getting 3rd party exclusives.

Those timed exclusive games, still come to pc.
You might not know it, but pc has stalker 2, and forspoken, which the 2 consoles don't have the other one.

Mtx are small. They are 30% of sales for the company. 10$ mtx is 3$ profit for Sony. At 100k, per 100 games, and you are seeing $30m. That isn't close to 1m Playstation game pc sale, which is 50$ at 1m copy(70%) is $35m.

You will need tons of mtx games to make actual profits, close to 1 Playstation game on pc, which has 1m sales.

Real profits comes from consistent mtx games, like season pass., battle pass. 1m battle pass, at 10$(30%) is $3m for fifa, warzone, fortnite or nba2022. You have to have numbers like that, to make actual profit.

The real profit for Sony is from 3rd party full games. 30$(30%) average, per 1m copy for 100 games is $900m for them.

You could lose those sales to your competitors. Switch is dominating Japanese market. That is users lost to switch. Sony won't see those sales. Then you get gamepass, which is stealing users from you.

Pc gaming is their last problem.

 

[GigaBowser]

Sony have gone from struggling to crack 2 million regularly to multiple games hitting the 20 million mark in the space of a generation.

Nintendo have also more or less doubled the sales of all its major IPs compared to a decade ago

Neither have necessarily majorly shifted the amount of hardware they are selling, they just dramatically improved attachment rate and for Sony improved their first party reputation (Nintendos already being good).

There's a ceiling but its closer to what Nintendo are doing than what Sony are. If anything there is more incentive to Nintendo to explore PC because how much more growth are they going to see over the peaks they are hitting now?

I don't get it. What does Nintendo have to do with this? Good luck getting them to bring games to PC.

Sony is already doing it which is the reason for the topic.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Well if Nixxes is doing the ports AFTER the games released on a Playstation platform, without the game devs needing to take PC into consideration building their engine, then you are right (not counting the money spent to buy Nixxes). But that would exclude day one exclusives on PC.

I suppose but they could also work along with Devs while a game is being developed

But as you can tell I am 100% in the camp I would rather play games day one on my beefy PC but I still will always but the new PS as well as Xbox

I am not one of those sky is falling I will never buy another console because someone else gets to enjoy games as well type of person

 

[Warnen]

Only a matter of time, worked well for MS so Sony will follow.

 

[arvfab]

Only a matter of time, worked well for MS so Sony will follow.

Going mobile/hybrid with weaker hardware worked best for Nintendo. Are MS and Sony going to follow?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Some aren’t even trying to hide it anymore in this thread.

These last few days have been a goldmine of takes

 

[Warnen]

Going mobile/hybrid with weaker hardware worked best for Nintendo. Are MS and Sony going to follow?

Sure with offerings like xcloud and psnow

 

[arvfab]

Sure with offerings like xcloud and psnow

 

[JayK47]

Maybe not day one, but time exclusive and PC release within a year would be nice. Not several years later.