Support NeoGAF

[TGO]

Stop with the wishful thinking.

Have you already forgotten what happened to "they can't leave all that money on the table" after the Bethesda purchase?

Yeah, as soon as it was signed Phil said from now on you get an Xbox or Gamepass or you watch a gameplay walkthrough on YouTube on your PS5.

It's not wishful thinking, trust me Call of Duty is actually a hindrance to me, I hardly ever buy them and get gifted them and everytime I have a moment to myself to play something I want to play I get a damn invite
I'm just looking at it logically without the fanboy spite many people are putting on display here.
I honestly don't see this going down to well for for the IP, especially at first.

 

[Zannegan]

I know they made the Bethesda games first party only, I was pretty sure they would, but I actually could see them keeping CoD multiplat. It's not because they can't afford to leave money on the table, but because it makes Gamepass look like an even crazier value proposition if subscribers get the base game for free while everyone else has to pony up $60-70 for one title.

 

[Mattyp]

Warzone is already free.

I never mentioned warzone.

Nothing in life is free. As I've said elsewhere in this forum, a COD developed under a flat pricing model looks very different from one developed under a subscriber model. Let us see how things turn out.

Free as in its the same fee as what they pay for CoD yearly retail which is all they're interested in and the rest is a bonus.

You explain gamepass to them and it's mind boggling, wait so $10 a month and I get to play every new CoD and hundreds of games for free? Yes.

They pay $119 a year for retail CoD, they pay $120 a year for Gamepass to aquire CoD from now on. AND the important word here, to them they now receive 100s of games extra in their outlook (FREE) for what their normal yearly cost is to play CoD regardless. It costs them nothing more, but they receive much more.

You tried, I expected more than an overused gif but.

 

[Ozriel]

But any reason why that can't be extended by 6 years in advance? If both sony and MS agreed to it..

Bobby isn't a big fan of MS and didn't want to sell to them so he might be up for it.

Let me get this clear.

You think that after agreeing a sum of money for a purchase, one party can do stuff to reduce the value of the purchased item during the waiting period?

It's like you asking if Bobby can sell off the COD IP to Tencent while waiting for the deal to close.

 

[chonga]

I know they made the Bethesda games first party only, I was pretty sure they would, but I actually could see them keeping CoD multiplat. It's not because they can't afford to leave money on the table, but because it makes Gamepass look like an even crazier value proposition if subscribers get the base game for free while everyone else has to pony up $60-70 for one title.

Well it would still be available outside of Game Pass for that price.

The bigger reason is that COD is similar to Minecraft's level. It is a huge title and whilst it is money on the table, the likelihood for keeping Minecraft on all platforms and also continuing to release add-ons and spin-offs like Minecraft Dungeons on all platforms is that you don't want to piss kids off. They throw tantrums. Now think about your stereotypical COD player - yep, a tantrum throwing kid-like-adult.

You want to make the user switch to you, what you don't want to do is piss them off in the process. We've seen multiple times how angry the COD community gets over simple marketing deals switching hands, exclusivity will be orders of magnitude worse.

Remember as well Phil always talks about the long game with Game Pass. I think what you're more likely to see is COD remaining on all platforms for the next couple of years, but over that time the experience via Game Pass will become superior. That means exclusive double XP events, in game content and so on, increasing over time until the other platforms are left with the base game only - in other words letting people down gently. You see this degradation approach all the time in business and once you've devalued the product enough it becomes much easier to withdraw it.

Let me get this clear.

You think that after agreeing a sum of money for a purchase, one party can do stuff to reduce the value of the purchased item during the waiting period?

It's like you asking if Bobby can sell off the COD IP to Tencent while waiting for the deal to close.

There could be an extension clause in the contract that gives Sony the right to extend it or first right of refusals etc, so it could be feasible, we'll never know. But just as equally there could be a break-up clause, ie. Activision can pay Sony $x to quit the deal early.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Are people seriously doubting MS is unwilling to make CoD exclusive because "they leave money on the table" after they made Starfield and TES VI excluisve? That is straight out comical.

 

[Clear]

I'm just looking at it logically without the fanboy spite many people are putting on display here.
I honestly don't see this going down to well for for the IP, especially at first.

Yeah, that's been my thought process too.

Honestly, the more I think about it the worse it gets for the franchise because of the way Activision has developed the publishing/monetization cycle over the years into the money machine it is today simply isn't a natural fit for Xbox/Gamepass.

I mean, how satisfactory an experience is streaming a twitch shooter going to be for your average casual player? How valuable is a Gamepass sub to casuals who only really play CoD all year long? How happy are they going to be that not only do they need to buy a new console, but a new subscription for internet access on that console, and then be expected to pay essentially a third subscription to maintain the season pass system and mtx for the game itself?

Most of all though, not everyone is going to decide that they have to follow their buddies onto Xbox, so player communities and relationships will fragment making the experience less appealing and sticky to everyone.

As you point out there's a lot more emotion than business logic in how people are viewing this.

 

[ChiefDada]

Free as in its the same fee as what they pay for CoD yearly retail which is all they're interested in and the rest is a bonus.

No, the rest isn't just "bonus". The rest comes from other IPs from developers such as Bethesda and has associated costs like the $7 billion Microsoft dropped to acquire.

No logical, adult conversations to be had around here, I guess.

 

[HoofHearted]

Wow - this thread..

 

[ChiefDada]

Stop with the wishful thinking.

Have you already forgotten what happened to "they can't leave all that money on the table" after the Bethesda purchase?

Yeah, as soon as it was signed Phil said from now on you get an Xbox or Gamepass or you watch a gameplay walkthrough on YouTube on your PS5.

Are you referring to Starfield? It's a brand new ip there is no lost PS revenue. COD is different. Why is this difficult to understand?

If Starfield indeed releases in 2022 and is big budget then expect it to releases with significant focus on MTX. This is what you're asking for under pure game pass model.

 

[ChiefDada]

Are people seriously doubting MS is unwilling to make CoD exclusive because "they leave money on the table" after they made Starfield and TES VI excluisve? That is straight out comical.

You don't even know what Starfield is. And when is ES VI releasing?

 

[Riky]

Are you referring to Starfield? It's a brand new ip there is no lost PS revenue. COD is different. Why is this difficult to understand?

If Starfield indeed releases in 2022 and is big budget then expect it to releases with significant focus on MTX. This is what you're asking for under pure game pass model.

Starfield was being developed well before Gamepass was a thing.

 

[HoofHearted]

Are you referring to Starfield? It's a brand new ip there is no lost PS revenue. COD is different. Why is this difficult to understand?

If Starfield indeed releases in 2022 and is big budget then expect it to releases with significant focus on MTX. This is what you're asking for under pure game pass model.

The messaging from MS regarding future Bethesda games is quite clear. Initial statements by MS are following the EXACT same messaging from the Bethesda acquisition.

They're also quite clear about their focus on their business model (build and drive subscriptions to their GaaS platform).

This is a long term play by MS - and whether COD remains on PS after current contractual agreements expire (apparently in 2023) will most likely involve Sony enabling GamePass in order to provide access to upcoming released MS first-party games.

This isn't about XSX/S vs PS5 - this is about using Microsoft's vast war chest of cash to bolster Microsoft's strategic investment in their GaaS platform.

By 2024 - the majority of the PS4 user base for COD will most likely have moved on (or will be transitioning) to this gen.

Who knows what COD may look like on PS in 2024 (if they release a version other than WarZone) - but assuming there is a version released - it certainly won't be the same as what is released for GamePass.

 

[ChiefDada]

Starfield was being developed well before Gamepass was a thing.

Exactly, under the assumption that it would be a next gen multiplatform title with traditional pricing. Now under Xbox, it will be a game pass game. That's a significant change with game design consequences.

And they have yet to show any gameplay. It's a big unknown.

 

[FingerBang]

The real questions:

How many players would make the jump from PS to the Xbox ecosystem just to play COD? That's not all of the people who buy it on Playstation, obviously, but it must be a percentage of that.

Now, is the jump of those people to MS going to bring enough revenue to be able to say no to what currently COD sells on Playstation? Can you quantify that? If the answer is no, there is no way COD is going exclusive. MS is moving from a console manufacturer to a publisher.

Also, not to interrupt the people celebrating and jerking each other off at the idea of more games on game pass. Prepare for the price to go up and to have tiers. I've been a Game Pass advocate for quite a while and love it. I couldn't give a shit about COD, but I'll be pissed if the price goes up just to have it on day one on the platform.

 

[Riky]

Exactly, under the assumption that it would be a next gen multiplatform title with traditional pricing. Now under Xbox, it will be a game pass game. That's a significant change with game design consequences.

And they have yet to show any gameplay. It's a big unknown.

You don't care about the previous multiplatform income when you've become first party, it's irrelevant as you can just concentrate on your game. It's also a PC game that will sell millions on Steam, it's not just a "gamepass game" at all.

 

[Scotty W]

MagnanimouS

 

[roosnam1980]

microsoft just dont give a fuck , they want xbox to be the top console

 

[ozz ex machina]

microsoft just dont give a fuck , they want xbox to be the top console

They really don't give a fuck about being top "console". They are fighting a completely different battle lol.

 

[ChiefDada]

You don't care about the previous multiplatform income when you've become first party, it's irrelevant as you can just concentrate on your game. It's also a PC game that will sell millions on Steam, it's not just a "gamepass game" at all.

$70b investment and you don't care about loss from primary revenue stream.

Riky, you are beyond saving.

 

[roosnam1980]

They really don't give a fuck about being top "console". They are fighting a completely different battle lol.

yes they do , because they can afford to

 

[Riky]

$70b investment and you don't care about loss from primary revenue stream.

Riky, you are beyond saving.

You don't understand what the primary revenue stream is anymore, it's Gamepass subscriptions, keep up, 25 million and counting with only one first party next gen exclusive game so far.
Also as seen with NPD, Halo and Forza still sold on Xbox and PC.

 

[ozz ex machina]

yes they do , because they can afford to

It's not what they are aiming for. Hardware is not going to get them to where they want to be.

 

[roosnam1980]

It's not what they are aiming for. Hardware is not going to get them to where they want to be.

there is a market for hardware and they want to be in it

 

[Bo_Hazem]

This latest shenanigans seem to explain this:

Deviation Games: "PlayStation has a culture where it's fearless to create" The Call of Duty veterans and Sony's Hermen Hulst discusses the new studio and their partnership

Deviation Games: "PlayStation has a culture where it's fearless to create"

Regular readers to GamesIndustry.biz will know this already, but there's a trend in games of AAA development veterans s…

www.gamesindustry.biz

PlayStation, Deviation Games Leadership Discuss Latest Sony Partnership A pair of former Call of Duty leads are fulfilling a lifelong dream, and the backing of PlayStation allows them to bring that dream to life.

PlayStation, Deviation Games Leadership Discuss Latest Sony Partnership - IGN

www.ign.com

Sony has been working with Deviation Games on its new PlayStation-exclusive IP for over a year already But it's "a little while out".

Sony has been working with Deviation Games on its new PlayStation-exclusive IP for over a year already

Last week, Sony announced it had signed a deal with Deviation Games to make a brand new PlayStation IP - the second suc…

www.eurogamer.net

Sony hasn't been sitting on its ass.

 

[roosnam1980]

This latest shenanigans seem to explain this:

Deviation Games: "PlayStation has a culture where it's fearless to create"

Regular readers to GamesIndustry.biz will know this already, but there's a trend in games of AAA development veterans s…

www.gamesindustry.biz

PlayStation, Deviation Games Leadership Discuss Latest Sony Partnership - IGN

www.ign.com

Sony has been working with Deviation Games on its new PlayStation-exclusive IP for over a year already

Last week, Sony announced it had signed a deal with Deviation Games to make a brand new PlayStation IP - the second suc…

www.eurogamer.net

Sony hasn't been sitting on its ass.

whats the point , microsoft will buy them too

 

[ChiefDada]

You don't understand what the primary revenue stream is anymore, it's Gamepass subscriptions, keep up, 25 million and counting with only one first party next gen exclusive game so far.
Also as seen with NPD, Halo and Forza still sold on Xbox and PC.

Oh, Riky you poor thing.

 

[Ozriel]

History has shown that doesn't work with MS
The IP just losses a big chunk Which is usually the majority of its userbase
Hopefully MS has learnt from it's mistakes.
clearly you wouldn't have.

Let's no go wild in comparing Rise of the tomb Raider with Call of Duty.

There's no history here with something of this scope.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

They really don't give a fuck about being top "console". They are fighting a completely different battle lol.

Yep, they know the future is digital. Xbox Series could be the last console Microsoft makes. They want GamePass on all TV's, phones/tablets, PC's, consoles and media centers like AppleTV, GoogleTV etc. They may even make their own low cost GamePass 'certified' unit in the future.

PlayStation and Nintendo may be the only two console makers in the future - and they will both have a GamePass app.

 

[MOTM]

It's not wishful thinking, trust me Call of Duty is actually a hindrance to me, I hardly ever buy them and get gifted them and everytime I have a moment to myself to play something I want to play I get a damn invite
I'm just looking at it logically without the fanboy spite many people are putting on display here.
I honestly don't see this going down to well for for the IP, especially at first.

Don't need to be a fanboy to know that AB is going exclusive after the deal is closed. We litteraly just went through the exact same process a few months ago with Bethesda.

So logically if you put 2 and 2 together you should come to the conclusion that COD is gone for PS owners after the deal closes.

COD will be totally fine without releasing on PS just like every other upcoming Bethesda game.

 

[Ozriel]

We'll see, they always fail to be 100% clear for some reason. But for CoD, what was that thing Spencer tweeted after announcing the deal then?

"I'll just say to players out there who are playing Activision Blizzard games on Sony's platform: It's not our intent to pull communities away from that platform and we remained committed to that."

Either they're doing everything multiplat or they fail miserably yet again to give a clear message.

There is nothing in what he's saying that indicates they're doing everything multiplat.
He saying they won't pull activision-blizzard games from competing platforms. Which means games already being played at the moment.

'What we know for sure is that what is existing isn't going anywhere, and contractual agreements for Sony marketing deals for some future COD a games will mean we should still have COD games multiplatform until at least end 2023.

Then we'll see what the future brings

 

[chonga]

You don't understand what the primary revenue stream is anymore, it's Gamepass subscriptions, keep up, 25 million and counting with only one first party next gen exclusive game so far.
Also as seen with NPD, Halo and Forza still sold on Xbox and PC.

You don't know what the Game Pass revenues are so you can't make that claim. Just like they can't make their claim either for the same reason.

 

[reksveks]

The primary revenue stream and more importantly big profit maker is the storefront not the subscription service or the first party game sales.

 

[MonarchJT]

It's not wishful thinking, trust me Call of Duty is actually a hindrance to me, I hardly ever buy them and get gifted them and everytime I have a moment to myself to play something I want to play I get a damn invite
I'm just looking at it logically without the fanboy spite many people are putting on display here.
I honestly don't see this going down to well for for the IP, especially at first.

again you think that Ms spent more than what all the division Playstation is valued basically to leave the status Quo . okay . im sure I'll see your name over the Millionaire magazine cover next month as best analyst

 

[Riky]

You don't know what the Game Pass revenues are so you can't make that claim. Just like they can't make their claim either for the same reason.

I can make that claim as the entire point of the deal is to drive Gamepass subs.

 

[Three]

There's a lot that still play the previous entry if the latest isn't upto snuff, my lot haven't moved on from cold war, zero interest in WWII.

watch the gigantic uptick on MW2.

This makes no sense. Vanguard was down from the previous years Cold War and Cold War was down from the previous years Modern Warfare.

Modern Warfare sold more than any due to Covid Lockdown. You're not going to see an uptick on MW2 especially if it's on GP and missing a platform. It will be lower or you wouldn't even be able to tell.

 

[Three]

whats the point , microsoft will buy them too

And then have to fulfil contractual obligations again

So meanwhile while their PS customers are playing the actual games these studios are creating Xbox users are talking about the future golden years where PS users eventually can't play those games. I think Sony wouldn't care personally until there are no more developers left.

 

[reksveks]

You're not going to see an uptick on MW2 especially if it's on GP and missing a platform. It will be lower or you wouldn't even be able to tell.

Neither of those two will happen imo due to the time this deal will take.

 

[TGO]

again you think that Ms spent more than what all the division Playstation is valued basically to leave the status Quo . okay . im sure I'll see your name over the Millionaire magazine cover next month as best analyst

Yet again, not what I'm on about.
I want to know how they're going transfer that big of a userbase in such a short time(because that's what Xbox fans want) without a massive decline in sales.
I have no doubt MS will make it exclusive.
I'm not disagreeing with the outcome.
Just the strategy

 

[MonarchJT]

Yet again, not what I'm on about.
I want to know how they're going transfer that big of a userbase in such a short time(because that's what Xbox fans want) without a massive decline in sales.
I have no doubt MS will make it exclusive.
I'm not disagreeing with the outcome.
Just the strategy

they will have a decline of sales and an increment of userbase..(PlayStation casuals that buy playstation for cod) it is absolutely taken into account. therefore?

 

[Three]

Neither of those two will happen imo due to the time this deal will take.

What do you mean?

 

[reksveks]

What do you mean?

MW2 is this year right? The Activision deal I don't think will close this year so MS won't be able to add CoD MW2 onto GP or stop it from coming out on PS5.

If MW2 ain't out this year, ignore me.

 

[chonga]

I can make that claim as the entire point of the deal is to drive Gamepass subs.

No, you can't.

You are consistently one of the worst and most blinded posters on this forum. Get some logic, please.

You can make a claim that about revenues when you don't know the figures. That's a fact. You don't know figures. The person you replied to doesn't know figures. No one can make any claim about which product segment is the bread winner. It could be Game Pass, but we don't know.

Now you could say 'Microsoft is hoping to make Game Pass it's main source of revenue, if it isn't already, so I don't think they care about [whatever point the poster makes] because [X, Y ,Z]'. That's a totally logically fine thing to say. But what you want to claim is, as ever for your posts, wrong.

 

[Riky]

No, you can't.

You are consistently one of the worst and most blinded posters on this forum. Get some logic, please.

You can make a claim that about revenues when you don't know the figures. That's a fact. You don't know figures. The person you replied to doesn't know figures. No one can make any claim about which product segment is the bread winner. It could be Game Pass, but we don't know.

Now you could say 'Microsoft is hoping to make Game Pass it's main source of revenue, if it isn't already, so I don't think they care about [whatever point the poster makes] because [X, Y ,Z]'. That's a totally logically fine thing to say. But what you want to claim is, as ever for your posts, wrong.

Of course MS see Gamepass as the major income stream, otherwise the offerings would be limited to a closed box. They aren't , they are on hardware that MS makes no money from the sale of.
Phil said it with the Bethesda sale, it's all about content for Gamepass, to deny that when they have said it is delusional.

 

[SteelCurtain 59]

I think you're overvaluing COD. It's played because that's what people's friends play. When that shifts then so will the market.

So you agree with me, they'll all move because their friends are moving to play COD. You do realize tons of people moved from the 360 to PS4 simply because it was the better place to play COD, you don't think exclusive COD is going to bring them back?

 

[adamsapple]

So you agree with me, they'll all move because their friends are moving to play COD. You do realize tons of people moved from the 360 to PS4 simply because it was the better place to play COD, you don't think exclusive COD is going to bring them back?

If anyone thinks exclusive CODs on one platform won't make a lot of people move there, they're just kidding themselves.

It will see a huge surge of folks moving to the Xbox side if (and when) COD does indeed go console exclusive.

 

[Andodalf]

So the first exclusive COD game for Xbox will be a SH COD. Ew

It's entirely possibly they change the schedule. We may not even have a 2024 COD.

 

[Gavon West]

They will likely put COD on Gamepass but much like Minecraft I doubt Xbox pulls it from PS, too many buyers

Dude.....70 billion. BILLION!! No ...just no.

 

[clarky]

This makes no sense. Vanguard was down from the previous years Cold War and Cold War was down from the previous years Modern Warfare.

Modern Warfare sold more than any due to Covid Lockdown. You're not going to see an uptick on MW2 especially if it's on GP and missing a platform. It will be lower or you wouldn't even be able to tell.

Morden warfare 2 isnt missing anything its out this year.

Also had fuck all to do with covid lovkdowns, that was 6 months after release.

Modern warfare 2 will be just as big if mot bigger.

 

[Lognor]

This is really affecting you, huh? But seriously, when are you buying an Xbox?