sainraja
Member
The launch reception may not have been great but Bungie has been able to turn that around. The game is far from a flop.
Breaking: Microsoft to acquire Activision-Blizzard in near 70$ billion deal
- Thread starter Draugoth
- Start date
LordOfChaos
Member
Damn Microsoft now owns World of Witchcraft?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
If you think for a second this is about Xbox vs Playstation, you're really missing the forest for the trees.
I'm sorry, its just ignorant.
The Zenimax purchase you could make an argument for, but this is a literal order of magnitude bigger.
Just to spell it out -and its not like Phil Spencer hasn't been saying this too- this is about keeping tech giants like Meta, Google, etc at arm's length. Their vision is for GamePass/Xcloud to be the dominant SERVICE PLATFORM within entertainment media.
To be crystal clear about this, the key element underpinning their strategy is the understanding that in order to create and maintain a backbone capable of supporting this scale of enterprise, you are talking about a very select group of mega-corporations. And Sony and Nintendo are simply not in that club.
What I think most of us fail to recognize (and I have to admit, I've only really embraced this idea recently) is that the web as we know it today, basically sits on top of a small number of powerful fiefdoms - the organizations that host and transact the unfathomably huge amounts of data that feed what we think of as Web 2.0.
Without their support there could be no social media, no Netflix, no Youtube, you name it. But because we don't directly interact with these providers, just their corporate clientele, we tend to ignore the men behind the curtain.
The bottom line is this: Without a means to actualize the commercial value, wealth and infrastructure doesn't matter. They have the "muscle", but nothing to flex it on, so it might as well be flab. Gaming, to these tech-giants, is a source of resistance they can exercise their "muscle" against.
So in essence when the opportunity to buy a company like ABK comes up, MS is thinking this is a huge potential gateway into the global gaming market -mobile, console and pc- for their big competitors. And if they get a taste of success in that market, then no question they have the resources to follow-up with further huge acquisition, and things get a lot more complicated for everyone.
This is what Phil was getting at when he said that Nintendo and Sony know to do the "right thing" for gaming and so aren't really the issue. It was an unsubtle way of saying that they know to stay in their lane! They can be IP holders and service providers with their own hardware and storefronts, because that keeps them within the client class - they aren't building datacenters.
I'm sorry, its just ignorant.
The Zenimax purchase you could make an argument for, but this is a literal order of magnitude bigger.
Just to spell it out -and its not like Phil Spencer hasn't been saying this too- this is about keeping tech giants like Meta, Google, etc at arm's length. Their vision is for GamePass/Xcloud to be the dominant SERVICE PLATFORM within entertainment media.
To be crystal clear about this, the key element underpinning their strategy is the understanding that in order to create and maintain a backbone capable of supporting this scale of enterprise, you are talking about a very select group of mega-corporations. And Sony and Nintendo are simply not in that club.
What I think most of us fail to recognize (and I have to admit, I've only really embraced this idea recently) is that the web as we know it today, basically sits on top of a small number of powerful fiefdoms - the organizations that host and transact the unfathomably huge amounts of data that feed what we think of as Web 2.0.
Without their support there could be no social media, no Netflix, no Youtube, you name it. But because we don't directly interact with these providers, just their corporate clientele, we tend to ignore the men behind the curtain.
The bottom line is this: Without a means to actualize the commercial value, wealth and infrastructure doesn't matter. They have the "muscle", but nothing to flex it on, so it might as well be flab. Gaming, to these tech-giants, is a source of resistance they can exercise their "muscle" against.
So in essence when the opportunity to buy a company like ABK comes up, MS is thinking this is a huge potential gateway into the global gaming market -mobile, console and pc- for their big competitors. And if they get a taste of success in that market, then no question they have the resources to follow-up with further huge acquisition, and things get a lot more complicated for everyone.
This is what Phil was getting at when he said that Nintendo and Sony know to do the "right thing" for gaming and so aren't really the issue. It was an unsubtle way of saying that they know to stay in their lane! They can be IP holders and service providers with their own hardware and storefronts, because that keeps them within the client class - they aren't building datacenters.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am not killing MS for buying Tomb Raider exclusitivity or CoD map packs. I am saying everyone does it. It's the industry norm. Crying about it because Sony went out and bought some exclusives of their own while MS was also buying Tomb Raider from the same damn company ignores reality that buying exclusives has been a thing since forever. Hell, Nintendo bought RE just to keep off of PS2. Should I now go back and write a long post on era saying poor Sony was forced by big bad Nintendo into buying GTA3, FFX and MGS2? Nah, it is what it is.
I re-read that paragraph about FF7 and FF15. Yeah, it's a mess, but the point I was trying to make was that FF13 and FF15 were not exclusives and Xbox gamers had enjoyed a 12 year period of non-exclusive FF games. FF7 released in 2020, almost 7 years after the gen was already over when MS announced Kinect, tv tv, $500 console and always online. There was no coming back from it. That CoD audience left them that day in May 2013 back when they still had DLC map pack rights to CoD Ghosts. It wasnt because of SFV.
Minecraft is important because MS spent $3.5 billion the same year Sony likely went out and bought FF7 for probably $50 million max. It's important because it was bought while MS was being outbid by Sony for SFV. It is important because MS chose to buy a multiplatform game that their gamers were always going to have instead of investing in new games in Sunset 2, Ryse 2, Scalebound which he cancelled, instead of Fable which he shutdown, instead of Coalition Games new IP which he cancelled in order to make Gears of War of all games. They were not short of money. They just chose to spend it on other things. The era post ignores all of this and tries to make MS out to be some mom and pop shop who had to go super saiyan because of big bad Sony's decision to get fucking SFV. A franchise so dead it literally hasnt gotten a sequel in 7 years.
I personally dont care for timed exclusives. My post history shitting on Jimbo buying Deathloop, Ghostwire Tokyo and Forspoken is available for everyone to go back and read. I even commended MS for buying Zenimax. It showed me that they were here to stay and wouldnt jerk me around like they did in the early days of Xbox one when they enticed me to buy an X1 with promise of Scalebound, Fable and Coalition's new IP. As well as partnerships with third parties like Insomniac and Crytek. And yet they ended up cancelling all of them while ending partnerships with other studios.
Lmao. I literally said in my first sentence that timed exclusives have been around and everyone does it. You said a lot is wrong with my post and pointed out just one thing which you agree with me on.
Nintendo signed RE as an exclusive for an entire gen. MS bought Bungie to keep Halo off of PC and potentially other platforms. This shit has been going on since the dawn of the modern generation. You think Sony owned Crash bandicoot? Spyro? Did Nintendo own fucking James Bond's Golden Eye trademark?
When i see ridiculous posts crying about MS who started the trend of buying exclusive content within third party platform games, and went out and bought just as many exclusives going back to the 360 and even the OG Xbox era, I am not going to shed a tear for them.
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Roxkis_ii
Banned
If A/B is so awesome, why would they sell their company? They were shopping it around like they were selling a used car.
Why not just keep making profit forever in the future??
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Holy shit! Legit fucking facts right here. Great, great post!
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Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Bro, my dude legit left out major points of Sony's 3rd party buying history to form a false narrative. Sony's been doing this for decades and thought they could do the same thing with a company thats quadruple their size. He thinks people didnt see that shit. FOH with that.
This is just arguing semantics at this point. Those are numbers will never know, what we DO know is the amount of copies sold, whether that be new user or recurring users doesn't matter since we KNOW that the 3 most bought and played games are statistically proven to be the most popular are fiffa, 2k, and COD. So odds of them being NEW & RECURRING is much much higher than your 10 million recurring and 4 million new math, an seeing as more an more people buy consoles throughout the generation and we know that attach rate is nooooowhere near 10% like the original OP of this argument said for the 3 games I mentioned (fifa,2k) having the highest attach rate of ANY game.
I'd honestly say the split for new and recurring players is an easy 50/50, if anything more leaning towards new.
Hell I got my series x and I literally bought Cold War even though I hate it so I'm one of those "new" players like sure a shit Ton of people are every year, in November to December.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
ATVI was a really huge opportunity. No wonder MS spent 70b on it to gain foothold in market and the most important - in mobile market. Not to mention studios in various regions.
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Effigenius
Member
Sony is paying to keep Final Fantasy 7, Final Fantasy 16, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, Crash Insane collection, Deathloop, Ghostwire Tokyo and more off Microsoft consoles. These are games coming to PS5 no matter what, Sony is just paying to not let Xbox users play them. So yes, for some fans, buying game publishers is the only way MS can fight back. But in your post you made it seem like because MS didn't find Sunset Overdrive 2 and Ryse 2 that Sony is totally justified in moneyhatting games like FF7.
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RoadHazard
Gold Member
MS moneyhatted Tomb Raider. And other games. They were both doing it. What MS has done now with these two publisher acquisitions is on a whole new level, and something Sony simply can't compete with.
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R3claimer117
Member
Because the shareholders wanted kotic out their shares were tanking. Before any of these issues going on there this would have been a 120 billion dollar acquisition. It was in kotics interest to sell because it's in his contract if he sells he gets the most money hence why he was shopping it around it was in his best interest to sell.
R3claimer117
Member
If you decide to go to war with someone that has more weapons in their arsenal then you. You're going to now complain that they have better and more powerful weapons then you ?
pasterpl
Member
Don't forget that Sony tried to pay for starfield exclusivity as well. And we're paying for cod extras for some years now.
Time exclusivity gives you short term advantage (can be a big one if the deal is long). Ms just responded in strong way, Sony was speaking with Bethesda and secured 2 games on timed deals, so ms acquired Bethesda, Sony got long cod deals in place, so ms acquired activision, if this would be a dick measuring contest, we all know who is winning.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
So Sony was just supposed to sit back and let MS do whatever? Well, that's what has now happened.
And do you really think MS did this because Sony got a few exclusives here and there? That would be a massive overreaction. This is much bigger than that.
It's on a whole new level? Sony effectively killed JRPGs on the Xbox by money hatting FINAL FANTASY, they killed fighting games on Xbox by keeping STREET FIGHTER off Xbox. Final Fantasy and Street Fighter are just as big names as Call of Duty, but people are ignoring that those games were made PS-exclusive and seem to be fine with it.
R3claimer117
Member
Every chance Sony gets they lock things behind their console if they bought activision do you think cod will be on Xbox or even be a discussion?
Effigenius
Member
MS hasn't moneyhatted a AAA third party game since Tomb Raider 8 years ago. Not because they are saints or anything, but because the market changed. Sonys market share got too big and companies aren't willing to give MS exclusives and cut out the Sony user base. Microsoft can't compete with that. So while Sony leverages their advantage, MS does the same. That's what they HAVE to do or just keep letting game after game get bought out away from them.
And as others have pointed out, that's all really just a side story. They are acquiring content to drive game pass. They will come to Sony and give them the chance to have CoD and Starfield and Doom and Halo in their console if they put game pass on there.
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sainraja
Member
^^ This just goes to show how people choose their narratives when arguing "moneyhatting" and ignore reality. Very well stated SlimySnake!
RoadHazard
Gold Member
JRPGs on the Xbox killed themselves long before that.
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Bunk ass posts like these .make me hope Microsoft purchases another publisher. Keep making disruptor moves. Keep changing the landscape and making moves that Sony can't follow. And they will...
Such bullshit. Sony did the same thing with dreamcast. They've been doing the same low ball bullshit for decades. Now it's come back to bite then in the ass, calling Phil Spencer for mercy and shit. You love to see it ...
Roxkis_ii
Banned
Just curious, do you have an examples of studios that have become great after MS bought them?
Dr. Claus
Banned
These consoles have been in development for better part of half a decade. Even counting COVID delays, there should be far more for both platforms than what we currently have. Irregardless of whatever infantile "side" you (royal you) are on, we should expect better.
As for the future releases, I am 100% sure Redfall will be delayed into 2023 - though I don't have much hope for the game as it looks like an incredibly low effort, mindless "co-op" game devoid of anything that makes the studio what they are.
Starfield I am beyond excited for. Always have had a soft spot for classical space suit designs and more realistic space portrayal (in terms of art direction, instead of the super sleek shit we have had for years). Also as a quick aside, I do really hope we get some classical 50s TV space suit designs like Captain Proton. Still that is a good 10 months out and it will be nearly two years since the consoles released before we started to get any really great exclusives for either. That is pretty piss poor. So far I think there is maybe 2-3 games on both systems that truly made me happy as exclusives.
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
I dunno. How many games won awards from XGS last year? Didn't XGS sweep the awards just a month ago? And it's just beginning.
Dr. Claus
Banned
Ah yes, easily bought and manipulated award shows are truly the testament of how good a platform is.
Effigenius
Member
I see. So God of War and Uncharted and Last of Us aren't actually really good games? Sony just paid for the awards? Or are the awards only accurate when Sony wins?
This site itself voted Halo and Forza 1 and 2 for the year. Did we get paid? Because if we did, I need someone to send me my cheque. I haven't seen it yet.
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Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
It's baffling. Some would rather live in a bubble than to see what's happening. Seriously refuse to read the tea leaves for what they are. How long ago was it that on this very board, these same Sony flappers were talking about, "XBOX HAS NO GAMES", even in the midst of Microsoft adding new studios in record numbers in just under a year?? Even after GP numbers kept rising, despite what naysayers said?? And now, still, after the Bethesda acquisition: the first publisher bought in gaming industry.
Shit is crazy..but hey, guess we'll see what happens.
Shit is crazy..but hey, guess we'll see what happens.
Dr. Claus
Banned
Awards in general are a blight and cancer only used to promote console wars and children who need validation for their purchases. Been saying this for years.
Take a brief moment and look at all the people who constantly bring them up. Every last one of them falls into one of those two categories. Without fail.
Effigenius
Member
I think awards are fine. They are a fun way to reflect on and appreciate the best games. Sony has been turning out amazing first party content since the PS3 era. Nearly every game is a must play. And the awards do recognize that widely held opinion. Microsoft traditionally doesn't fare well during award season, but last year we got Halo, Forza, Deathloop and Psychonauts. That's a great year for MS and the studios they own. It would be nice to see MS game quality get to the level Sony has been at for years. Maybe they are starting to get there. Who knows?
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Actually, now that I think about it - MS can buy whatever they want considering that home console gaming is a part of the gaming market which is 160b market. So with 20b+ revenue it is literally just 12% of the all market share. It is the same thing as with anime - Sony literally owns a real monopoly on anime but as it was considered as a part of cartoon market, it went just fine. And unlike Sony - MS does not have monopoly on console market.
World of Warchest.
World of Warchest.
But people here are screaming it's a monopoly.
Dr. Claus
Banned
Its perfectly fine to discuss among peers what your personal favorite game was. However, that is never how these conversations go. Its always in service to pushing a console war, like the person I quoted was doing, or to validate their purchase habits (Look at last year's GotY awards for a massive example on GAF).
I don't give two shits if MIcrosoft doesn't do well to appease the gaming "journalist" cliques during award season. All I want to see from them are good games. Goes for all developers/publishers/platforms at that.
Deathloop and Psychonauts were in development long before Xbox purchased them and are multiplatform releases. Just because Microsoft now owns the studios doesn't mean they had any hand in their development and so have nothing of value in this discussion. What they *were* able to produce though I have found either amazing or beyond mediocre/disappointing. I adored Gears Tactics and Flight Sim, but both released back in 2020. For 2021 we had Forza Horizon 5, which is by all means an expansion pack of 4 and while fun for a time is beyond forgettable. Then we had Halo Infinite which I have shown my disdain for quite enough and you can easily look up my thoughts on it via the search bar.
As for game quality, Microsoft has always been a the same level as Sony. Again, look at Flight Sim and Gears Tactics as two fantastic recent examples.
Effigenius
Member
Regarding Deathloop you are quite right. MS had nothing to do with that. Psychonauts is another story. yes, they were working on it before the purchase, but they were running into problems. They have publicly commented that MS's investment allowed them to make the game much better and fix a lot of issues they were running into.
Dr. Claus
Banned
I remember reading that and maybe I just misunderstood what they meant. However to me it read more as "We already know what we wanted to do, but MS money let us pay our devs for a bit longer to iron out the kinks." Less that MS was the reason the game was as good as it was. Maybe just semantics, but I am excited to see what an MS owned Double Fine can produce next when they are completely under their umbrella and influence.
Maybe Brutal Legend 2? Please?
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I love how, when it comes to moneyhatting games, you disregard scale and say 'they were both doing it' even though Sony did way more of that.
When it comes to acquisitions, suddenly scale matters.
Let's not rewrite history, though. Sony bid for Leyou, a publisher, back in 2020 and were only outbid by Tencent. So clearly they see nothing wrong in buying publishers…it's really just an affordability issue with them.
MadPanda
Banned
That would be a very dumb move. They can close xbox and become 3rd party publisher as well, while they're at it. Why even own Xbox anymore if they're going to put Xbox on Sony consoles with all their games? We could just buy PlayStation and get both worlds in one box. I know I'd do it.
Effigenius
Member
It's about gamepass. They want it to be Netflix and they want it to be everywhere. Sony doesn't really want to let MS onto their consoles. They don't want their users to create xbox accounts.
And even if they were inclined to allow it, there are so many points to negotiate that it's unlikely both sides would ever agree. How much revenue split does each get? How much will it cost? How will purchases in Gamepass work? Is PSN required for online play? Is xbox live required? etc, etc.
Remember initially Sony refused to let EA's service on the system and it was only after it had been on XBox for years that they finally relented on that. They definitely don't want to put gamepass on there, but we will see how it works out.
It would have to be streaming only, meaning it'll have to be a Gamepass Ultimate account, meaning they'll have Xbox Live.
NickFire
Member
Phil's tweet about desire + Sony's comment about respecting contracts = negotiations are already in exploratory phase I bet. It looks very similar to the tactics that networks and cable companies use when they can't agree on price hikes.
MS had Tomb Raider as a timed exclusive for about a year. Sony bought Tomb Raider as an exclusive for an entire console generation after the first game released.
Then they basically bought the US publishing rights for FFVII and five other games from Square: https://www.polygon.com/a/final-fantasy-7
People either weren't around during the origin of the PlayStation or forget that Sony got to where they are today by doing exactly what MS is doing now and back then they were blasted for trying to buy their way into the industry (sound familiar?).
assurdum
Banned
Ryu Kaiba
Member
Yeah that was a good read, really put things into perspective.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Sony does not own a monopoly on Anime. It's literally impossible to based on the laws in the US. Don't know about other countries. Sony is not preventing anyone else from creating animes. They are not preventing Hulu, Disney+, Netflix, Peacock, Paramount+, HBO Max, etc from having their own Animes.
People do not know what monopoly is. People do not know what antitrust is.
In the US it pretty much comes down to 3 things
Sherman Antitrust Act - basically created due to railroads in the 1890s
Clayton Antitrust Act - amended the Sherman Antitrust Act in 1914 to include a ban on anticompetitive prices and mergers
Herfindahl–Hirschman Index - used to determine the concentration in a specific market
In specific instances (for example broadcast) there have been rules explicitly called out. For example, the same entity cannot own any two of the following: ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC. An entity may only have local television stations in a certain percentage of the market and so on.
If HHI was used for Console Game Market then Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft would be required to divest their subsidiaries as that would be a highly concentrated market. If it was used for games industry then it'd probably still give us a medium to highly concentrated market.
As you can see the definition is very broad which takes me back to monopoly and antitrust. There's no definition on what percentage makes a monopoly in the US for any specific industry. There's no definition of what an industry is, so going back to Microsoft buying Activision what industry is that a part of? Is it the console game industry? Is it the game industry as a whole? Is it the entertainment industry? I would argue it's the latter. Games compete with movies and tv shows for consumers money, time, eyes. It's the same argument people tried to make that Disney would be a monopoly by buying Fox based on domestic BO percentage (and even that by itself wouldn't make it one).
Usually when a merger falls through is because the company responsible for defending the merger does not want to spend the resources when the government sues to block it (i.e. Comcast - TWC). When they do want to fight it then they usually, if not always, win. There's a reason Lina Khan and them are trying to introduce a new antitrust bill and why Ted Cruz spent 40 minutes talking to Tim Cook about it.
Silent Viper
Banned
Acquisition only possible if company willing to sell themselves.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Sony brought it on themselves. Remember all the tweets from insiders at the start of this generation saying Sony were basically approaching everyone to moneyhat games away from Xbox? They did it all last gen, they're doing it again. They're now seeing the results of trying to outspend a company a hundred times their size.
MrFunSocks
Banned
While also screaming how Sony are much bigger so Ms need to sell games on PlayStation lol
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Rare wasn't doing much of anything, then came out with Sea of Thieves. Love it or hate it, it has been a massive success.
Otherwise, outside of Lion's Head Studios*, haven't all of Microsoft's acquisitions just kind of kept on keeping on? Which would be an indication that MS is kind of hand's off.
* = it's my understanding ole' Pete Moly ran that one into the ground after MS allowed him too much control but I could be and probably am wrong - not a game historian or industry expert here
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SSfox
Member
MS sure is bringing the fight to Sony now, huh.
Kratos is Sony. Xbox lacks this much on iconic games that you have to use one of Sony's iconic character to make a Xbox gif meme?
oldergamer
Member
This is true. I dont think ms reacted to that as they were planning the purchase of bethesda anyway. However they need to have enough development in house to counter the buying of exclusives.