Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


  • Total voters
    886
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ozriel

M$FT
Your estimates don't consider the impact of those 6 million people subbing to Game Pass, or even half of them doing it, and the increase in MTX spending they would engage in.

10m people on PS buying COD Day 1 is $490 million revenue for Microsoft once Sony's 30% cut is taken out. 6m of them going to Xbox in case of COD removal from PS is now $420 million but MS keeps 100% of that money. A deficit of only $70 million. However, say 3 million of those 6 million decide to get the game through Game Pass, and they're new Game Pass subscribers.

That is now an extra $540 million in GPU revenue thanks to COD, in addition to the $210 million from the other 3 million who don't sub but buy the game. Altogether that is $650 million in total revenue from COD (B2P, inclusion in GP), so MS actually make $160 million more in a COD withdrawal strategy off PlayStation, using the player numbers you gave in your example and assuming that a decent number of them would likely sub to Game Pass thanks to the game and keep their sub to play it online year-round plus whatever other games are in the service.

None of this is plausible since any deal will involve Microsoft guaranteeing long term access to Call of Duty on PlayStation, in a legally binding contract ratified and enforced by the EU.

Your scenario also fails to cover the potential long term damage to the Call of Duty brand if it went exclusive to Xbox. Most users won’t ditch PlayStation, and we know Sony’s been hard at work at multiple GaaS rivals.

After seeing how Halo fell from crazy heights of 1 million + player CCUs to the struggles of Infinite, I doubt there’d be anyone willing to take the risk of having COD suffer a similar fate.


I don't think this was ever in question. no one cares about this.

Sure, they do. If we’re talking about sticking to public statements.
 
Saying "no incentive to remove existing games" and "no incentive to make exclusive games" are two different things.
They said they had no incentive to make any games exclusive? I could have sworn they said they would take titles on a case by case basis. Pretty sure they had an incentive to continue to support ESO and FO76.

We're back again debating where Bethesda games woulda coulda shoulda launched.

dnxx-round-and-round.gif
Yeah you're right. It just funny seeing the Bethesda arguments again like they relate in anyway to what MS is doing with Activision.
 
So do some regulators.

Bringing it up as an example of a strategy Microsoft has pursued with past acquisitions doesn't mean they give enough of a damn to want to dictate which Bethesda games Microsoft chooses to make exclusive or not in the future.

Regulators have determined that what Microsoft wants to do with Bethesda games going forward is their prerogative
 
Last edited:

Dick Jones

Banned
Bringing it up as an example of a strategy Microsoft has pursued with past acquisitions doesn't mean they give enough of a damn to want to dictate which games Microsoft chooses to make exclusive or not in the future.

Regulators have determined that what Microsoft wants to do with Bethesda games going forward is their prerogative
Have you ever read the story of the boy who cried wolf?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Bringing it up as an example of a strategy Microsoft has pursued with past acquisitions doesn't mean they give enough of a damn to want to dictate which Bethesda games Microsoft chooses to make exclusive or not in the future.

Regulators have determined that what Microsoft wants to do with Bethesda games going forward is their prerogative
Tell that to the FTC
Mr Rogers Clown GIF
 
Weird I thought regulators used that as evidence of Microsoft making multiplatform publishers exclusive.
Yes the FTC that couldn't even win a case against Meta when they obviously pose anti-trust concerns. Also I didn't know that making a publishers content exclusive was illegal. I hope that Disney will announce a deal with Netflix to put their content there since it is now a problem. I remember a time when being a monopoly was the reason a regulator would complain. Third place is the new monopoly I guess.
 

NickFire

Member
After seeing how Halo fell from crazy heights of 1 million + player CCUs to the struggles of Infinite, I doubt there’d be anyone willing to take the risk of having COD suffer a similar fate.
They are talking about putting COD on cloud / switch. So yeah, there's that.
 
Yes the FTC that couldn't even win a case against Meta when they obviously pose anti-trust concerns. Also I didn't know that making a publishers content exclusive was illegal. I hope that Disney will announce a deal with Netflix to put their content there since it is now a problem. I remember a time when being a monopoly was the reason a regulator would complain. Third place is the new monopoly I guess.

I was thinking about the CMA to be honest.
 

reksveks

Member

Ozriel

M$FT
1. No, the game was taken away from another platform that it would have been released on had Microsoft not intervened.

it is pretty much a locked in certainty that Starfield would have released on PlayStation if Microsoft didn’t buy Zenimax.
But that’s got nothing to do with what you were arguing before. There are no public statements from Microsoft pledging to make all future Bethesda games multiplatform. ‘Case by case basis’ was the pledge, and it seems that’s what’s happening.

2. We aren't talking about regulators. We are talking about Microsoft going against its own public statements.

See above. Public statements include them saying they’d keep existing Bethesda games on all platforms and maintain communities. They’re preparing the next ESO expansion for all platforms as we speak.


3. Not possibly. Definitely. Game Pass / xCloud is 25 million subscribers. Even if we assume that there is 0 overlap with XBS userbase, and all 25 million subscribers are on top of it, PS5 has more players (32 million) and would be more than 45 million by the time Starfield releases.

So, yes, fewer people will be playing Starfield now because of Microsoft's intervention -- which, again, goes against what they said publicly.

Ah, but you forget a couple of things.

XCloud potential audience is pretty much anyone with a browser. And thanks to the ABK deal concessions, Starfield’s also showing up on GeForce Now day one…

Of course there’s no telling if Cloud usage will pick up that much, but at least on paper MS can point to their cloud rollout and cloud deals as evidence these games are reaching a wider potential audience post acquisition.

Can’t say they’re correct, but there’s certainly wriggle room.
 

FlyyGOD

Member
It did go against their public stance at the very least.

"This deal was not done to take games away from another player base like that," Spencer said. "Nowhere in the documentation that we put together was: 'How do we keep other players from playing these games?' We want more people to be able to play games, not fewer people to be able to go play games." -- Phil Spencer.

1) They did take away the game from PlayStation
2) They did ponder and acted upon 'how do we keep other players from playing Starfield'
3) And now fewer people will be able to play Starfield.
What games did they take away? It couldn't have been Starfield or Elderscroll 6 because those games were never on Playstation.
 

FlyyGOD

Member
Some of you are really low rent and not worth the effort. Let me tell you starfield was announced in 2018 and MS brought Zenimax in 2021.

Mental gymnastic your way out of that, Simone Biles.

Maybe a game the supposed size of starfield only takes 2 years from first line of code to release.
Starfield wasn't announced for any home consoles at that time.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Eh, personally, I don't care about the Bethesda stuff because I was never gonna play Starfield or Redfall because those just don't look interesting enough to me. Hi-Fi Rush looks good, and I'll play it in the Summer when it goes on discount.

My only problem is that people do not own Microsoft's exclusivity of Bethesda games and try to spin that "those aren't existing games," "Microsoft never said they won't make exclusives," "Starfield was not announced for PS5," etc.

Microsoft made those games exclusives. It's fine, but at least own it. People should own it and accept that "Microsoft bought Zenimax, said they don't have any incentive to make these games exclusive, but made them exclusive 2 days later. Yes, it is what it is."

Don't spin it by saying stuff that's illogical in an attempt to defend it. That's my only point. Nobody complains about The Outer Worlds 2 or Hellblade 2 being exclusive because nobody is spinning it into a defense for Microsoft.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We're back again debating where Bethesda games woulda coulda shoulda launched.

dnxx-round-and-round.gif
Tell me about it! It's the definition of insanity. MS spent THEIR money to purchase the publisher to increase games on Xbox and PC. Therefore, they can put THEIR games wherever they want to. Just like Sony can with their own IP's. Sony fans need to understand that going forward the only zenimax/bethesda games that will be on PS are live service games. All the single play WRPG's are gong to be exclusive to Xbox/PC. If you want to play said games buy an Xbox OR on your PC, NOT on Playstation.
 

NickFire

Member
Tell me about it! It's the definition of insanity. MS spent THEIR money to purchase the publisher to increase games on Xbox and PC. Therefore, they can put THEIR games wherever they want to. Just like Sony can with their own IP's. Sony fans need to understand that going forward the only zenimax/bethesda games that will be on PS are live service games. All the single play WRPG's are gong to be exclusive to Xbox/PC. If you want to play said games buy an Xbox OR on your PC, NOT on Playstation.
Hi Fred. You are correct that they can do what they want with their games. That was never the point or something even being argued, but you are correct and thank you for clarifying this.
 
I was thinking about the CMA to be honest.
What did the CMA say about the Disney Fox acquisition?
Tell me about it! It's the definition of insanity. MS spent THEIR money to purchase the publisher to increase games on Xbox and PC. Therefore, they can put THEIR games wherever they want to. Just like Sony can with their own IP's. Sony fans need to understand that going forward the only zenimax/bethesda games that will be on PS are live service games. All the single play WRPG's are gong to be exclusive to Xbox/PC. If you want to play said games buy an Xbox OR on your PC, NOT on Playstation.
It's just interesting to see a narrative that somehow this is illegal or anti competitive. Business is business and at least MS opens the door to putting their IP on platforms they don't own. I doubt that other platforms would even entertain the idea.
 
None of this is plausible since any deal will involve Microsoft guaranteeing long term access to Call of Duty on PlayStation, in a legally binding contract ratified and enforced by the EU.

The problem here is what's defined as "long-term". Clearly Sony don't think a 10-year deal is long-term, especially if the terms of the deal are not satisfactory. The fact there are aspects to the deal offer Microsoft don't want mentioned publicly, and the fact they are dodging the FTC's request to provide the deal's writing in full, suggests at least some parts of the deal which would be viewed as unsatisfactory by certain companies with resistance to the acquisition and even to regulatory bodies.

Your scenario also fails to cover the potential long term damage to the Call of Duty brand if it went exclusive to Xbox. Most users won’t ditch PlayStation, and we know Sony’s been hard at work at multiple GaaS rivals.

Hey, I worked with feynoob feynoob 's own numbers in their own scenario and those didn't end up working for the point they were trying to argue, because in some scenario where out of 10 million PS users, 4 million leave COD if it's withdrawn from the console and even just half of the 6 million who move subscribe to Game Pass, that is Game Pass revenue increase directly attributable to COD's availability in the service, so you can essentially classify that as COD revenue.

And that combination of new GP revenue due to COD and the 3 million who'd choose to just buy the game at launch, still grants Microsoft a lot more revenue without PlayStation than if they kept the game on PlayStation. But I'm just giving a logical conclusion to the incomplete example feynoob feynoob provided earlier.

After seeing how Halo fell from crazy heights of 1 million + player CCUs to the struggles of Infinite, I doubt there’d be anyone willing to take the risk of having COD suffer a similar fate.

Except the problems with Halo Infinite were having a HORRIBLE content rollout, underwhelming visuals, arguably uninspired campaign (certainly in terms of biome variety), lack of features at launch and poor rollout of community features combined with some MP sync issues and bad MTX pricing practices for the store.

Historically, the COD teams have avoided all of those problems for both the annual releases and Warzone. They have lots of content at launch, regular content updates at good intervals, nice visuals, generally good campaigns (recent ones like MW2 being big favorites), strong netcode and sync etc. COD has very few if any of the risk factors for CCU death spirals and sales falling off the cliff the way Halo's experienced gradually since 343i's takeover.

And accelerated at record pace with Halo Infinite, FWIW.

EDIT: Also Halo was always an exclusive franchise so trying to use its decline as a reason for why COD being removed from PlayStation makes no sense for Microsoft to do, in itself makes no sense because Halo was easily the biggest FPS in the console space for several years while ALSO being an Xbox exclusive (with later PC ports)!
 
Last edited:

DrFigs

Member
What did the CMA say about the Disney Fox acquisition?

It's just interesting to see a narrative that somehow this is illegal or anti competitive. Business is business and at least MS opens the door to putting their IP on platforms they don't own. I doubt that other platforms would even entertain the idea.
The narrative isn't from people on forums. You have 3 different government agencies saying this deal is likely anti competitive and investigating its legality.

edit: my mistake you're still talking about Bethesda/Zenimax. Idk if people are saying those exclusive games are illegal or whatever.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
The narrative isn't from people on forums. You have 3 different government agencies saying this deal is likely anti competitive and investigating its legality.

edit: my mistake you're still talking about Bethesda/Zenimax. Idk if people are saying those exclusive games are illegal or whatever.
Nobody said this. He is erecting a strawman.

Like a good little shill.
 
Last edited:

Dane

Member
Exactly? It’s your phone and you should be able to install software from whatever source you desire. Plus by allowing other stores it creates more chances for competitive pricing.
I'm almost sure that is legal, but that companies don't have to support it at all, they can even ban you from their stores.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom