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[alloush]

Nah, the Miles team is working on Wolverine. Thats the B team.

The A team wasted two and a half years on ratchet and didnt leave themselves enough time to upgrade the visuals or give this a true Uncharted 2/Assassins Creed 2 caliber leap.

That and the fact that they are now effectively a three team studio with another team working on an MP game. So its possible all the best talent is split across 3 teams instead of one team with all the talent working on one project.

A spiderman sequel with 5 years of dev time and all of the 450 staff working on it wouldve looked way better and be more or less equally ambitious as something like starfield, zelda totk or final fantasy 16. Instead, its going to end up as a last gen iterative sequel like GOW. At this point, i dont even care about the visuals. its shocking how they have done nothing to innovate in the gameplay department.

This. A 5 year dev cycle should result in a Matrix Demo graphical fidelity or close, more so its a next gen only game. Again, a matter of maximizing profits by doing minimal work the Jim Ryan theory. I am almost 100% sure this started off as a cross gen title, if it didn't then Insomniac went from being one of the most talented studios to one of the least talented overnight which, obviously, isn't the case.

Also what's up with GoW? I see this game always used as an example of how games didn't improve upon their predecessors. I haven't played it yet so I am curious.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Lol. I literally said to you to look at what gen over gen upgrades have been over console gens prior and you spun that around as "your narrative". If you're not ready to be honest in a discussion then please not get involved in one, at least not with me.

You are presenting these vague ideas of what "you" feel constitutes a next generation machine. I asked you specifics about what would be defined as a next Gen machine, and you yourself cannot provide a precise answer because there is none. I already clearly defined what I thought made the Series S a next Gen machine, and those consisted of feature sets that the previous generation could not take advantage of. Your response is "it's gpu isn't powerful" enough" and the increase in ram capacity and speed isn't "enough".

It may not be the next gen machine you want, but I can only conclude that it is you not being honest by attempting to completely rule it out of the category.

 

[arkhamguy123]

This. A 5 year dev cycle should result in a Matrix Demo graphical fidelity or close, more so its a next gen only game. Again, a matter of maximizing profits by doing minimal work the Jim Ryan theory. I am almost 100% sure this started off as a cross gen title, if it didn't then Insomniac went from being one of the most talented studios to one of the least talented overnight which, obviously, isn't the case.

Also what's up with GoW? I see this game always used as an example of how games didn't improve upon their predecessors. I haven't played it yet so I am curious.

That's what it is right there. Lower cost lower effort + same sales as last Gen when we put in effort = even higher profits

And GOWR is pretty good but peoples issue with it is it is basically DLC for the first game and is laughably, LAUGHABLY claustrophobic and restrained in design and scale due to the PS4 limitations which was frustrating for PS5 users. Especially because the game was announced as a PS5 exclusive then later got confirmed to be cross gen

 

[SlimySnake]

This. A 5 year dev cycle should result in a Matrix Demo graphical fidelity or close, more so its a next gen only game. Again, a matter of maximizing profits by doing minimal work the Jim Ryan theory. I am almost 100% sure this started off as a cross gen title, if it didn't then Insomniac went from being one of the most talented studios to one of the least talented overnight which, obviously, isn't the case.

Also what's up with GoW? I see this game always used as an example of how games didn't improve upon their predecessors. I haven't played it yet so I am curious.

Cory Barlog went off to do his own new IP after shipping GOW in 2018 and likely took all the best engineers and designers with him. Stig did something similar after GOW3 in 2010, and Ascension was led by the so-called B team which was actually the main team just without all the biggest talent that were helping stig. That game was very mediocre.

Same thing likely happened here. Eric williams, the new director, is not Cory Barlog. Probably doesnt have the ambition you need to be a big AAA director. They forgot to upgrade the graphics literally choosing the same exact character models from the first game. They chose not to change anything about the level design or the combat. Other than minor iterative changes of course. The game feels safe and formulaic. It feels like those yearly cod and far cry ubisoft games that dont innovate at all. They also traded big epic setpieces and boss fights for 50 hours of tedious content.

FF16's big boss fights take a big shit on GOW's boss fights. The final few boss fights during the ragnorak event were a huge disappointment. FF16 chose scale over pretty graphics and the ps4 hardware, and it is literally leagues ahead of any setpiece in Ragnorak. If I was a SSM employee and I saw those Titan and Bahamut boss fights, I would literally resign and go work at a gas station id be that embarrassed.

 

[Trilobit]

Spider-Man 2 will be at SDCC on Thursday and I fully expect them to release the story trailer. Remember they dropped the Spiderman 2018 story trailer at SDCC as well. If the trailer isn't impressive, I will officially concede that SM2 is a lost cause.

Just rewatched the gameplay trailer and yeah... I just finished Spider-Man on my PS5 playing the PS4 version, not the remaster, and S-M2 doesn't feel like next-gen. I also didn't really enjoy the physics in the trailer.

Going to have very low expectations graphics-wise. No doubt it will have fun gameplay combined with a good story, but the technical front is quite lacking this far.

 

[GymWolf]

Paging ChiefDada.

pretty sure someone predicted this. that they will next show the game at night during rain to trick us into thinking its next gen. lol

Nah, the model still looks plasticky.

 

[SlimySnake]

That's what it is right there. Lower cost lower effort + same sales as last Gen when we put in effort = even higher profits

And GOWR is pretty good but peoples issue with it is it is basically DLC for the first game and is laughably, LAUGHABLY claustrophobic and restrained in design and scale due to the PS4 limitations which was frustrating for PS5 users. Especially because the game was announced as a PS5 exclusive then later got confirmed to be cross gen

I think with Ratchet they wanted a new game that sold the SSD right at launch. They chose insomniac because they can churn out games really fast. But they fucked up by also greenlighting the Miles DLC expansion at the same time.

Just stretched the studio too thin. There was a thread recently where I said that Spiderman is their biggest IP and will sold 3x more than Miles and Ratchet combined. So why bother making ratchet and miles for 3 of the 5 years? it doesnt make any financial sense. Ratchet sold just 1 million in its first month. Spiderman will sell 5x that in 3 days. miles sold well but at a reduced $40 price tag and topped out at 10 million. Spiderman 2 from a business standpoint wouldve been a better bet.

It's just another one of Herman's big fuck ups. ND wasted 2 years on TLOU2. Bend wasted 3 years on Days Gone 2 and Uncharted pitches. Cory has wasted 5 long years on his new IP. It's not just Jim Ryan being a profit driven villain. The studios are simply poorly run.

Say what you will about kotick but he had 3 studios on 3 year dev cycles making cod games last gen. every year without delay. the gen before that, it was two studios on 2 year dev cycles. this gen he realized that 3 studios is not enough so he had every single activision studio working on getting these games out every year. Literally all 12-16 studios. No one is making crash or anything else. I literally cant name you another activision franchise because all they do is CoD every year. sony studios are splitting into multiple teams making these huge games and thats just a recipe for disaster.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

This guy understands what I'm talking about

Imagine complaining about a Spider-Man game looking too cartoonish..

 

[GymWolf]

Like what? There isn't a real world equivalent to the symbiote suit and promo looks similar to the same as ever other rendition of Venom.

Cory Barlog went off to do his own new IP after shipping GOW in 2018 and likely took all the best engineers and designers with him. Stig did something similar after GOW3 in 2010, and Ascension was led by the so-called B team which was actually the main team just without all the biggest talent that were helping stig. That game was very mediocre.

Same thing likely happened here. Eric williams, the new director, is not Cory Barlog. Probably doesnt have the ambition you need to be a big AAA director. They forgot to upgrade the graphics literally choosing the same exact character models from the first game. They chose not to change anything about the level design or the combat. Other than minor iterative changes of course. The game feels safe and formulaic. It feels like those yearly cod and far cry ubisoft games that dont innovate at all. They also traded big epic setpieces and boss fights for 50 hours of tedious content.

FF16's big boss fights take a big shit on GOW's boss fights. The final few boss fights during the ragnorak event were a huge disappointment. FF16 chose scale over pretty graphics and the ps4 hardware, and it is literally leagues ahead of any setpiece in Ragnorak. If I was a SSM employee and I saw those Titan and Bahamut boss fights, I would literally resign and go work at a gas station id be that embarrassed.

Too bad ragnarock is the far superior game overall, mechanically the eikon boss fight are a joke, mindless qte rigged bullshit with no challenge, a basic humanoid boss in ragnarock is so much better gameplay and challenge wise.

Only people who put spectacle and qte over gameplay and challenge can prefer ff16 over ragnarock, sorry not sorry.

And the pacing in ff16 in even more terrible than ragnarock, not an easy task to achieve.

 

[alloush]

Cory Barlog went off to do his own new IP after shipping GOW in 2018 and likely took all the best engineers and designers with him. Stig did something similar after GOW3 in 2010, and Ascension was led by the so-called B team which was actually the main team just without all the biggest talent that were helping stig. That game was very mediocre.

Same thing likely happened here. Eric williams, the new director, is not Cory Barlog. Probably doesnt have the ambition you need to be a big AAA director. They forgot to upgrade the graphics literally choosing the same exact character models from the first game. They chose not to change anything about the level design or the combat. Other than minor iterative changes of course. The game feels safe and formulaic. It feels like those yearly cod and far cry ubisoft games that dont innovate at all. They also traded big epic setpieces and boss fights for 50 hours of tedious content.

FF16's big boss fights take a big shit on GOW's boss fights. The final few boss fights during the ragnorak event were a huge disappointment. FF16 chose scale over pretty graphics and the ps4 hardware, and it is literally leagues ahead of any setpiece in Ragnorak. If I was a SSM employee and I saw those Titan and Bahamut boss fights, I would literally resign and go work at a gas station id be that embarrassed.

That last part man, cracked me up.

Yeah I know Cory been working on a new IP and it's been forever. Let's just hope said IP didn't start off as a cross-gen. And that game better trump the UE5 demos given how tight-lipped they have been about it and how long they have been working on it. I mean it hasn't even been announced yet for fuck's sake.

Having said that, I suddenly lost all the urge and enthusiasm to play GOWR now, lol. I was so looking forward to it seeing how GoW 2018 is one of my favorite games of all time.

 

[SlimySnake]

Too bad ragnarock is the far superior game overall, mechanically the eikon boss fight are a joke, mindless qte rigged bullshit with no challenge, a basic humanoid boss in ragnarock is so much better gameplay and challenge wise.

Only people who put spectacle and qte over gameplay and challenge can prefer ff16 over ragnarock, sorry not sorry.

And the pacing in ff16 in even more terrible than ragnarock, not an easy task to achieve.

if i wanted challenge, i would play a souls game. I want spectacle from GOW and it was almost entirely missing from ragnorak. Besides, this game has plenty of bounties where you fight difficult bosses including some 1v1 battles where the combat shines if thats what you want out of the game.

The eikon battles are spectecular setpieces that the devs left behind in the PS3 era because they were 'too much work'. Im glad FF16 devs took the time to have setpieces like that. And i respect that you have full control of these titans through out the entire 20-30 minute setpieces that go from level to level with no loading whatsoever. These are not QTEs from the PS2 era. These are on rail sequences. They are fully playable from start to finish.

Pacing wise, the game sucks. It honestly has killed the game for me. but thats a topic for another thread.

 

[SlimySnake]

That last part man, cracked me up.

Yeah I know Cory been working on a new IP and it's been forever. Let's just hope said IP didn't start off as a cross-gen. And that game better trump the UE5 demos given how tight-lipped they have been about it and how long they have been working on it. I mean it hasn't even been announced yet for fuck's sake.

Having said that, I suddenly lost all the urge and enthusiasm to play GOWR now, lol. I was so looking forward to it seeing how GoW 2018 is one of my favorite games of all time.

It's definitely worth playing. Just dont expect a grand finale or go in hoping they changed a lot. its an iterative sequel at its heart with some really bad pacing issues because they insisted on it being a 50 hour game.

 

[GymWolf]

if i wanted challenge, i would play a souls game. I want spectacle from GOW and it was almost entirely missing from ragnorak. Besides, this game has plenty of bounties where you fight difficult bosses including some 1v1 battles where the combat shines if thats what you want out of the game.

The eikon battles are spectecular setpieces that the devs left behind in the PS3 era because they were 'too much work'. Im glad FF16 devs took the time to have setpieces like that. And i respect that you have full control of these titans through out the entire 20-30 minute setpieces that go from level to level with no loading whatsoever. These are not QTEs from the PS2 era. These are on rail sequences. They are fully playable from start to finish.

Pacing wise, the game sucks. It honestly has killed the game for me. but thats a topic for another thread.

You must be bad at videogames to die against any hunt that is not the big dragon tbh.

Spectacle with qte and zero challenge can fuck right off.

 

[GymWolf]

That last part man, cracked me up.

Yeah I know Cory been working on a new IP and it's been forever. Let's just hope said IP didn't start off as a cross-gen. And that game better trump the UE5 demos given how tight-lipped they have been about it and how long they have been working on it. I mean it hasn't even been announced yet for fuck's sake.

Having said that, I suddenly lost all the urge and enthusiasm to play GOWR now, lol. I was so looking forward to it seeing how GoW 2018 is one of my favorite games of all time.

Don't listen to old man yelling at great games, the game is still a great piece of software and if you value gameplay over spectacle, it's not even a debate what is the best game between the 2.


Pacing is fucked up but it also depends how much you care about little shit and his part of the story.

Ff16 pacing is just fucked up, full stop.

 

[Edder1]

You are presenting these vague ideas of what "you" feel constitutes a next generation machine. I asked you specifics about what would be defined as a next Gen machine, and you yourself cannot provide a precise answer because there is none. I already clearly defined what I thought made the Series S a next Gen machine, and those consisted of feature sets that the previous generation could not take advantage of. Your response is "it's gpu isn't powerful" enough" and the increase in ram capacity and speed isn't "enough".

It may not be the next gen machine you want, but I can only conclude that it is you not being honest by attempting to completely rule it out of the category.

Look, if you think having just over 2 teraflops of GPU upgrade over PS4 or having just over 2GB Ram over it with barely any bandwidth upgrade represents a true jump over last gen then you're seriously deluding yourself. Like I already said, just look at the jumps over previous gens and you will have an idea what a true generational jump is. PS5 and Series X are in line with sort of upgrade and jump we expect from one gen to another, Series S on the other hand is a Frankenstein machine (part next gen, part a meagre upgrade) that only exists as a cheap entry point for GamePass.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Notice guys, how the Insomniac dev goes that extra step in confirming how this bullshot is "in game!". It's not enough for the devs to fool the casual masses, when the hardcore gamer asks questions, these devs always double down. They're probably encouraged to do it by Sony>dev studio heads. I see this scenario play out a lot.

That's what it is right there. Lower cost lower effort + same sales as last Gen when we put in effort = even higher profits

And GOWR is pretty good but peoples issue with it is it is basically DLC for the first game and is laughably, LAUGHABLY claustrophobic and restrained in design and scale due to the PS4 limitations which was frustrating for PS5 users. Especially because the game was announced as a PS5 exclusive then later got confirmed to be cross gen

Yeah man. I like that we have named this trend finally. It's "The Jim Ryan Theory". Like any good theory it has high predictive and explanatory power

Ragnarok was disappointing for me as well. Slimy- as usual your explanation for why these games are not living up to expectations makes a ton of sense. Having tip talent spread thin. I bet it all relates back to The Jim Ryan Theory. Quantity and profit is the focus.

I know I sound all negative and doom and gloom but I can't think of anything Sony is doing for us console gamers that's been positive this gen. I was thrilled early on with Demon's Souls. Ratchet kept the hope alive (and I'm glad to know at least with Ratchet they did tap into ps5 a bit). Since Ratchet though it's been all negative trends, lies, cash grabs, etc.

Is there anything Sony's been doing that we can feel good about our purchase of PS5 aside from the obvious which is that there have been a fairly steady release of exclusives? I think these exclusives are all overshadowed by something disappointing attached to them. Last gen started a little slow but it felt like Sony actually cared.

 

[alloush]

Don't listen to old man yelling at great games, the game is still a great piece of software and if you value gameplay over spectacle, it's not even a debate what is the best game between the 2.


Pacing is fucked up but it also depends how much you care about little shit and his part of the story.

Ff16 pacing is just fucked up, full stop.

Oh my god GymWolf your way of putting things into words is second to none.

I will give it a try for sure, no way am I gonna miss out on GoWR. I will try to go in with a clear mind.

 

[alloush]

Notice guys, how the Insomniac dev goes that extra step in confirming how this bullshot is "in game!". It's not enough for the devs to fool the casual masses, when the hardcore gamer asks questions, these devs always double down. They're probably encouraged to do it by Sony>dev studio heads. I see this scenario play out a lot.



Yeah man. I like that we have named this trend finally. It's "The Jim Ryan Theory". Like any good theory it has high predictive and explanatory power

Ragnarok was disappointing for me as well. Slimy- as usual your explanation for why these games are not living up to expectations makes a ton of sense. Having tip talent spread thin. I bet it all relates back to The Jim Ryan Theory. Quantity and profit is the focus.

I know I sound all negative and doom and gloom but I can't think of anything Sony is doing for us console gamers that's been positive this gen. I was thrilled early on with Demon's Souls. Ratchet kept the hope alive (and I'm glad to know at least with Ratchet they did tap into ps5 a bit). Since Ratchet though it's been all negative trends, lies, cash grabs, etc.

Is there anything Sony's been doing that we can feel good about our purchase of PS5 aside from the obvious which is that there have been a fairly steady release of exclusives? I think these exclusives are all overshadowed by something disappointing attached to them. Last gen started a little slow but it felt like Sony actually cared.

Hey hey I named it "The Jim Ryan Theory". Don't mix me up with Arkham

 

[ChiefDada]

Imagine complaining about a Spider-Man game looking too cartoonish..

Cartoon/comic based art style is great. Cartoonish lighting that makes entire scenes look flat in a 3d game is not.

 

[DuduIsDisappointed]

Woww

that looks Fire

Absoluttely amazing!!

Most impressive looking game so far. Better than Avatar.

 

[Turk1993]

Im 100% sure we will see some amazing moments (mostly scripted) in SM2. But the overall vibe and looks is just not what i expected from a ps5 only spiderman game.

 

[ChiefDada]

Don't listen to old man yelling at great games, the game is still a great piece of software and if you value gameplay over spectacle, it's not even a debate what is the best game between the 2.


Pacing is fucked up but it also depends how much you care about little shit and his part of the story.

Ff16 pacing is just fucked up, full stop.

It absolutely is debatable. Forget about spectacle (FF16 wins hands down) combat system is much deeper in FF16. I will agree FF16 pacing is atrocious, but the overall story is much better. But dont pretend Ragnarok didn't have pacing issues (jotunheim). Also, it's hard to not care about how well Atreus is implemented when it's basically his story at center stage. It's a real tragedy that he was my favorite character in GoW 2018 and by far my least favorite character in Ragnarok. The actor was simply awful, his dialogue was horrendous and shallow (every other answer to any question directed at him was "just trust me"). FF16 setpieces had so much heart and style you can't ignore. If you're facing a limited time or cas budget, FF16 is a great example of where those limited resources should be focused. GoW Ragnarok is a very distant afterthought next to FF16. And we haven't even talked about the musical score...

 

[MarkMe2525]

Look, if you think having just over 2 teraflops of GPU upgrade over PS4 or having just over 2GB Ram over it with barely any bandwidth upgrade represents a true jump over last gen then you're seriously deluding yourself. Like I already said, just look at the jumps over previous gens and you will have an idea what a true generational jump is. PS5 and Series X are in line with sort of upgrade and jump we expect from one gen to another, Series S on the other hand is a Frankenstein machine (part next gen, part a meagre upgrade) that only exists as a cheap entry point for GamePass.

smh.... It's so bizarre to watch you argue with yourself. Literally no one has stated that the 2tf increase to gpu, and 2gb ram increase represented to the "true jump to next gen". It was all the other things I clearly laid out, in addition to the mentioned above, which represents it "Gen 9" feature set and position in the market place.

A console manufacturer is in no way obligated to met this arbitrary performance threshold that you suggest is the baseline for a next gen machine. Their next generation of products is exactly as they design them to be. Now whether that product is to your liking is irrelevant in relation to it's categorization within it's marketplace. That is unless you attempt to create your own definition of the term, as you attempted to do earlier.

 

[GooseMan69]

I don't agree with the Ragnarok slander. I think it's better than it's predecessor, which I frankly find a tad overrated.

Tech wise, it didn't exactly blow my tits off, but it performs extremely well and it's polished as fuck. It's not the tech achievement GOW 3 was though.

 

[DuduIsDisappointed]

I think they will show real time night-day Quick transition in a near future but not tomorrow.

Tomorrow's trailer is more cutscenes based.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Too bad ragnarock is the far superior game overall, mechanically the eikon boss fight are a joke, mindless qte rigged bullshit with no challenge, a basic humanoid boss in ragnarock is so much better gameplay and challenge wise.

Only people who put spectacle and qte over gameplay and challenge can prefer ff16 over ragnarock, sorry not sorry.

And the pacing in ff16 in even more terrible than ragnarock, not an easy task to achieve.

I agree with that. FF16 is everything I was afraid of

 

[SlimySnake]

You must be bad at videogames to die against any hunt that is not the big dragon tbh.

Spectacle with qte and zero challenge can fuck right off.

Eh. You are playing on normal mode, thats why there is no challenge. none of us played gow on normal, it was piss easy on that mode. CBU3's mistake was locking the harder modes behind story completion but i find it odd that you would judge the game's difficulty based on normal mode. my friend is playing hard mode right now and he said ultimate mode is even harder. gow is easy on every difficulty other than GMGOW.

setpieces are not meant to be challenging. they are a distraction and a reward. uncharted's setpieces are so easy, they are impossible to fail and yet the series received universal acclaim mostly because of those setpieces. GOW's opening levels and Cronos fights are no different. hell, i would say the thor and odin fights were really easy and they arent even setpieces. The valkyrie fights are the only real challenge in that game.

Oh my god GymWolf your way of putting things into words is second to none.

I will give it a try for sure, no way am I gonna miss out on GoWR. I will try to go in with a clear mind.

its my goty. i played it 3 times back to back before NG+ even released. So its not a bad game by any means. its just so disappointing that i cant help but shit on it every time i play an aweinspiring ff16 setpiece. To me, a series cant leave its roots behind.

It's not the tech achievement GOW 3 was though.

That is definitely worth the slander though. GOW series has always pushed technical boundries. they were system sellers. games that pushed the medium forward. Ragnorak wasnt just a last gen game 2 years into this gen, it did nothing to innovate on gameplay or do anything original. And that is a sin when you're a first party game with unlimited funds. sony and ms studios dont get to phone in ubisoft quality sequels.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah man. I like that we have named this trend finally. It's "The Jim Ryan Theory". Like any good theory it has high predictive and explanatory power

Ragnarok was disappointing for me as well. Slimy- as usual your explanation for why these games are not living up to expectations makes a ton of sense. Having tip talent spread thin. I bet it all relates back to The Jim Ryan Theory. Quantity and profit is the focus.

I know I sound all negative and doom and gloom but I can't think of anything Sony is doing for us console gamers that's been positive this gen. I was thrilled early on with Demon's Souls. Ratchet kept the hope alive (and I'm glad to know at least with Ratchet they did tap into ps5 a bit). Since Ratchet though it's been all negative trends, lies, cash grabs, etc.

Is there anything Sony's been doing that we can feel good about our purchase of PS5 aside from the obvious which is that there have been a fairly steady release of exclusives? I think these exclusives are all overshadowed by something disappointing attached to them. Last gen started a little slow but it felt like Sony actually cared.

I think sony is just going through those phases many publishers and studios go through. they were up for a while, now its their turn to crash and return to earth. they will hit rock bottom like they did in 2006 and come back with a vengeance. sports franchises do this all the time. i think success makes people complacent.

Sony will return. probably around 2025-2027. until then, its time to just move on and hope that third parties can pitch in. Honestly, aside from a weak 2006, sony has been fucking killing it. people think they flopped the ps3 era, but i loved their output in 2007, 2008, and 2009 before everyone started noticing their exclusive output. to me, they have been at the top for almost 15 years and now its time for others to shine.

Jim Ryan's 60% GaaS push might kill sony's consistent AAA output but i think these games will die fast or get cancelled. factions is basically cancelled. the other studio they contracted to make a GaaS game lost a bunch of people and is likely on life support. they probably saw the suicide squad reaction and might cancel insomniac's superhero gaas game. who knows that 60:40 split might just end up being the other way around by 2026 when everything they have built either gets cancelled or flops.

Here is their potential 2025-2027 lineup not including any GaaS trash.

2025
Death Stranding 2
Wolverine
Bluepoint's next remake
Astrobot 2

2026
Ghost of Tsushima 2
The Last of Us 3
Sony Bend's new IP
Media molecule's new IP

2027
Horizon 3
Housemarque new IP
Cory Barlog's new IP
Gran Turismo 8 - a true next gen game.

Even if 4 out of these 12 games get cancelled, thats still a pretty decent lineup for 3 years. Maybe in ten years, we will look back at 2021-2024 as an aberration. jim's gaas push is his, but the decision to make GT7 and Horizon 2 last gen came before he became CEO. And Cory himself decided to make Ragnorak last gen. had those 3 games been next gen only pushing boundries, we would not be having this discussion.

 

[Edder1]

smh.... It's so bizarre to watch you argue with yourself. Literally no one has stated that the 2tf increase to gpu, and 2gb ram increase represented to the "true jump to next gen". It was all the other things I clearly laid out, in addition to the mentioned above, which represents it "Gen 9" feature set and position in the market place.

A console manufacturer is in no way obligated to met this arbitrary performance threshold that you suggest is the baseline for a next gen machine. Their next generation of products is exactly as they design them to be. Now whether that product is to your liking is irrelevant in relation to it's categorization within it's marketplace. That is unless you attempt to create your own definition of the term, as you attempted to do earlier.

According to you a meagre upgrade to 2 most important console components is sufficient over a 7 year period, lol. Dude, nobody has time to listen to such nonsense. You're clearly just capping for Series S and making yourself look ridiculous in the process. Like I said, there's nothing for us to argue over, just move on.

 

[MarkMe2525]

According to you a meagre upgrade to 2 most important console components is sufficient over a 7 year period, lol. Dude, nobody has time to listen to such nonsense. You're clearly just capping for Series S and making yourself look ridiculous in the process. Like I said, there's nothing for us to argue over, just move on.

Yeah, I'm the one looking ridiculous

 

[Edder1]

Yeah, I'm the one looking ridiculous

 

[GymWolf]

It absolutely is debatable. Forget about spectacle (FF16 wins hands down) combat system is much deeper in FF16. I will agree FF16 pacing is atrocious, but the overall story is much better. But dont pretend Ragnarok didn't have pacing issues (jotunheim). Also, it's hard to not care about how well Atreus is implemented when it's basically his story at center stage. It's a real tragedy that he was my favorite character in GoW 2018 and by far my least favorite character in Ragnarok. The actor was simply awful, his dialogue was horrendous and shallow (every other answer to any question directed at him was "just trust me"). FF16 setpieces had so much heaons change the worlrt and style you can't ignore. If you're facing a limited time or cas budget, FF16 is a great example of where those limited resources should be focused. GoW Ragnarok is a very distant afterthought next to FF16. And we haven't even talked about the musical score...

I stopped at much deeper combat system or that the story is much better, lmao strongly agree to disagree on this one.

Just the difference of having a single weapon that has barely anything going on outside of eikons attacks over having 3 full fleshed weapons already change the world for me.

 

[GymWolf]

Eh. You are playing on normal mode, thats why there is no challenge. none of us played gow on normal, it was piss easy on that mode. CBU3's mistake was locking the harder modes behind story completion but i find it odd that you would judge the game's difficulty based on normal mode. my friend is playing hard mode right now and he said ultimate mode is even harder. gow is easy on every difficulty other than GMGOW.

setpieces are not meant to be challenging. they are a distraction and a reward. uncharted's setpieces are so easy, they are impossible to fail and yet the series received universal acclaim mostly because of those setpieces. GOW's opening levels and Cronos fights are no different. hell, i would say the thor and odin fights were really easy and they arent even setpieces. The valkyrie fights are the only real challenge in that game.

its my goty. i played it 3 times back to back before NG+ even released. So its not a bad game by any means. its just so disappointing that i cant help but shit on it every time i play an aweinspiring ff16 setpiece. To me, a series cant leave its roots behind.


That is definitely worth the slander though. GOW series has always pushed technical boundries. they were system sellers. games that pushed the medium forward. Ragnorak wasnt just a last gen game 2 years into this gen, it did nothing to innovate on gameplay or do anything original. And that is a sin when you're a first party game with unlimited funds. sony and ms studios dont get to phone in ubisoft quality sequels.

It's not my fault if cbu3 is a moron and locked the right mode behind finishing the game twice (i readed that ff mode is a cakewalk aswell).

I'm not gonna replay a 50++ hours game 2-3 times to discover the real game, we need to punish this shitty practice, not making an excuse for it.

We can shat on the graphic all we want, but the game didn't annoyed me for 110 hours while i give up on the cringe, shit pacing and complete lack of challenge of ff16 after not even 50 hours and i don't think i have the strenght to even finish this thing.

 

[GymWolf]

I think sony is just going through those phases many publishers and studios go through. they were up for a while, now its their turn to crash and return to earth. they will hit rock bottom like they did in 2006 and come back with a vengeance. sports franchises do this all the time. i think success makes people complacent.

Sony will return. probably around 2025-2027. until then, its time to just move on and hope that third parties can pitch in. Honestly, aside from a weak 2006, sony has been fucking killing it. people think they flopped the ps3 era, but i loved their output in 2007, 2008, and 2009 before everyone started noticing their exclusive output. to me, they have been at the top for almost 15 years and now its time for others to shine.

Jim Ryan's 60% GaaS push might kill sony's consistent AAA output but i think these games will die fast or get cancelled. factions is basically cancelled. the other studio they contracted to make a GaaS game lost a bunch of people and is likely on life support. they probably saw the suicide squad reaction and might cancel insomniac's superhero gaas game. who knows that 60:40 split might just end up being the other way around by 2026 when everything they have built either gets cancelled or flops.

Here is their potential 2025-2027 lineup not including any GaaS trash.

2025
Death Stranding 2
Wolverine
Bluepoint's next remake
Astrobot 2

2026
Ghost of Tsushima 2
The Last of Us 3
Sony Bend's new IP
Media molecule's new IP

2027
Horizon 3
Housemarque new IP
Cory Barlog's new IP
Gran Turismo 8 - a true next gen game.

Even if 4 out of these 12 games get cancelled, thats still a pretty decent lineup for 3 years. Maybe in ten years, we will look back at 2021-2024 as an aberration. jim's gaas push is his, but the decision to make GT7 and Horizon 2 last gen came before he became CEO. And Cory himself decided to make Ragnorak last gen. had those 3 games been next gen only pushing boundries, we would not be having this discussion.

2025 is trash, what about 2024?

 

[alloush]

sony and ms studios dont get to phone in ubisoft quality sequels.

Hey hey, don't ridicule Ubisoft, these guys are giving us Avatar and Star Wars Outlaws, they have trumped both Sony and MS, Sony much more though in their latest showcase

 

[SlimySnake]

It's not my fault if cbu3 is a moron and locked the right mode behind finishing the game twice (i readed that ff mode is a cakewalk aswell).

I'm not gonna replay a 50++ hours game 2-3 times to discover the real game, we need to punish this shitty practice, not making an excuse for it.

We can shat on the graphic all we want, but the game didn't annoyed me for 110 hours while i give up on the cringe, shit pacing and complete lack of challenge of ff16 after not even 50 hours and i don't think i have the strenght to even finish this thing.

yeah, the game is very flawed. They shouldve unlocked the hard mode from the start. I just cant help but compare it to GOW after every major setpiece and story beat. Just played the boat sequence and they were switching between characters on different boats and it reminded of just how much SSM limited themselves with their ridiculous one shot take mandate. This felt so much more epic simply because they allowed camera cuts and that helped sell the epic scale of the battle where as everything in GOW felt like discount Gladiator.

Hell, the very next scene was unintentionally hilarious but honestly, its refreshing to see likeable characters in a video game. Everyone in GOW is an annoying cunt, fucking jaded cynical douchebags. You cant help but smile at how earnest the characters and story feels. And i cant help but compare everything in this game to gow and gow fails miserably every time.

P.S The wake of the boats looked straight up pre-rendered. Gorgeous ripples effect. knowing this game, it probably was, but stuff like that really helps sell that next gen feeling GOW simply failed to capture.

Hey hey, don't ridicule Ubisoft, these guys are giving us Avatar and Star Wars Outlaws, they have trumped both Sony and MS, Sony much more though in their latest showcase

Agreed. I was just referring to previous gen AC, Far Cry and Ghost Recon games. They became way too formulaic and samey.

2025 is trash, what about 2024?

lol you have really high standards. i dont know what they release in 2024 because they showed nothing at this year's conference thats releasing next year. i just dont see how wolverine and ds2 release next year given how little we know about them. no other sony studios are even close to being ready for 2024. we will just have to settle for 2025 for Sonys renaissance.

 

[Represent.]

Games should be looking like this

 

[GymWolf]

yeah, the game is very flawed. They shouldve unlocked the hard mode from the start. I just cant help but compare it to GOW after every major setpiece and story beat. Just played the boat sequence and they were switching between characters on different boats and it reminded of just how much SSM limited themselves with their ridiculous one shot take mandate. This felt so much more epic simply because they allowed camera cuts and that helped sell the epic scale of the battle where as everything in GOW felt like discount Gladiator.

Hell, the very next scene was unintentionally hilarious but honestly, its refreshing to see likeable characters in a video game. Everyone in GOW is an annoying cunt, fucking jaded cynical douchebags. You cant help but smile at how earnest the characters and story feels. And i cant help but compare everything in this game to gow and gow fails miserably every time.

P.S The wake of the boats looked straight up pre-rendered. Gorgeous ripples effect. knowing this game, it probably was, but stuff like that really helps sell that next gen feeling GOW simply failed to capture.


Agreed. I was just referring to previous gen AC, Far Cry and Ghost Recon games. They became way too formulaic and samey.


lol you have really high standards. i dont know what they release in 2024 because they showed nothing at this year's conference thats releasing next year. i just dont see how wolverine and ds2 release next year given how little we know about them. no other sony studios are even close to being ready for 2024. we will just have to settle for 2025 for Sonys renaissance.

Jesus dude, you speak like ragnarock is the most tame game ever in term of spectacle when in reality it has a lot of great scenes.

I get that you want a boss as big as an entire planet but if the cost is having qte infested boss fights i take ragnarock route every day of the week.

I'm contempt with the level of spectacle you have against thor, the infernal dog, the other big dog-lizard creature, the double valkirie fight etc, i don't need asura wrath level of spectacle to be satisfied, a good balance between gameplay and spectacle is enough for me.

Asura is as spectacular as it is dreadful to play in terms of gameplay, this is not the future you want.

Also, high standards? The sequel of a shit pretentious game, wolverine that forcnow has the lowest hype possible after seeing spidey 2, the new bluepoint project that we know shit about and a sequel of a fucking tech demo for the dualdildo?

Are you kidding? That is the shittiest year i can imagine until we see wolverine and bluepoint knocking our jaw off...

 

[arkhamguy123]

U

Jesus dude, you speak like ragnarock is the most tame game ever in term of spectacle when in reality it has a lot of great scenes.

I get that you want a boss as big as an entire planet but if the cost is having qte infested boss fights i take ragnarock route every day of the week.

I'm contempt with the level of spectacle you have against thor, the infernal dog, the other big dog-lizard creature, the double valkirie fight etc, i don't need asura wrath level of spectacle to be satisfied, a good balance between gameplay and spectacle is enough for me.

Asura is as spectacular as it is dreadful to play in terms of gameplay, this is not the future you want.

Also, high standards? The sequel of a shit pretentious game, wolverine that forcnow has the lowest hype possible after seeing spidey 2, the new bluepoint project that we know shit about and a sequel of a fucking tech demo for the dualdildo?

Are you kidding? That is the shittiest year i can imagine until we see wolverine and bluepoint knocking our jaw off...

Uh it kinda was. And that's a straight strawman goin like "sorry we didn't have a planet sized boss for you"

Nobody is saying that. What people are saying is, "hey, can this $200M, 4 year dev time having game from a franchise historically known for big epic boss battles since the ps2 have some big epic boss battles?"

Is it too much to ask they hit GOW3 on the goddamn PS3? Or even the baulder fight from the game this sequel is basically dlc too from like half a decade ago?

I'll admit the fenrir wolf fight had something going on but the Valkyrie sisters, fight in a little 30 meter wide arena. Hemindall, fight in a little 30 meter wide arena with. Fucking thor? Fight in a series of little 30M wide arenas then rematch in a single 30 meter wide arena. The goddamn final boss of the game Odin the main villain, ruler of Asgard…. Fight in a little 30M wide arena. Utterly pathetic

 

[SlimySnake]

Also, high standards? The sequel of a shit pretentious game, wolverine that forcnow has the lowest hype possible after seeing spidey 2, the new bluepoint project that we know shit about and a sequel of a fucking tech demo for the dualdildo?

Are you kidding? That is the shittiest year i can imagine until we see wolverine and bluepoint knocking our jaw off...

Death Stranding was GOTY in a year when sekiro and re2 came out. I think you just dont like the game which is fine, its not for everyone. Wolverine has potential especially since it will be real next gen instead of this fake next gen spiderman 2. now if it turns out to be like spiderman 2 then we can talk but i dont think they will fuck it up twice.

Astrobot was very well received. Both on psvr and the ps5. and BP's latest track record gives me hope. i think 4 games is a decent year but i understand if you dislike these studios and the games they make. i was speaking generally.

 

[GymWolf]

U

Uh it kinda was. And that's a straight strawman goin like "sorry we didn't have a planet sized boss for you"

Nobody is saying that. What people are saying is, "hey, can this $200M, 4 year dev time having game from a franchise historically known for big epic boss battles since the ps2 have some big epic boss battles?"

Is it too much to ask they hit GOW3 on the goddamn PS3? Or even the baulder fight from the game this sequel is basically dlc too from like half a decade ago?

I'll admit the fenrir wolf fight had something going on but the Valkyrie sisters, fight in a little 30 meter wide arena. Hemindall, fight in a little 30 meter wide arena with. Fucking thor? Fight in a series of little 30M wide arenas then rematch in a single 30 meter wide arena. The goddamn final boss of the game Odin the main villain, ruler of Asgard…. Fight in a little 30M wide arena. Utterly pathetic

Baldur was an absolute shit tier fight gameplay wise, the dude had 3 attacks.

Thor is not only a better boss fight, but the moment when you die and he electrify you to revive you is more hype than anything that skinny bitch does in the whole game other than saying 495843858 times that he can't feel anything...

For the rest, agree to disagree, it is not a flaw to not have all spectacle and shit gameplay bossfights, it is a design choice, some people are mad at that, some people like me are happy with that, i can watch a movie if a want almost zero agency and just spectacle.

 

[GymWolf]

Death Stranding was GOTY in a year when sekiro and re2 came out. I think you just dont like the game which is fine, its not for everyone. Wolverine has potential especially since it will be real next gen instead of this fake next gen spiderman 2. now if it turns out to be like spiderman 2 then we can talk but i dont think they will fuck it up twice.

Astrobot was very well received. Both on psvr and the ps5. and BP's latest track record gives me hope. i think 4 games is a decent year but i understand if you dislike these studios and the games they make. i was speaking generally.

Yeah maybe shit year was too harsh, dreadfull sound more accurate after this explanation.

Ds being goty in a year with these 2 games just show how fucking bad is the state of vg media that assign these awards, the game was a pretentious, boring, exercise in fart sniffing.

 

[ChiefDada]

I stopped at much deeper combat system or that the story is much better, lmao strongly agree to disagree on this one.

Ragnarok's shit script was bailed out by the acting (except the kid, he was awful and seems to have lost whatever talent he had during the pandemic). The ending was so cheap I'm convinced that wasn't their original intent at all. Combat was pretty good, just not as wide or deep as FF16.

Just the difference of having a single weapon that has barely anything going on outside of eikons attacks over having 3 full fleshed weapons already change the world for me.

How much of the game did you play?

 

[arkhamguy123]

Baldur was an absolute shit tier fight gameplay wise, the dude had 3 attacks.

Thor is not only a better boss fight, but the moment when you die and he electrify you to revive you is more hype than anything that skinny bitch does in the whole game other than saying 495843858 times that he can't feel anything...

For the rest, agree to disagree, it is not a flaw to not have all spectacle and shit gameplay bossfights, it is a design choice, some people are mad at that, some people like me are happy with that, i can watch a movie if a want almost zero agency and just spectacle.

It's not binary. You can have spectacle and agency at the same time. Many games have done it. Some even in the GOW franchise. SSM simply didn't try with Ragnarok

 

[GymWolf]

Ragnarok's shit script was bailed out by the acting (except the kid, he was awful and seems to have lost whatever talent he had during the pandemic). The ending was so cheap I'm convinced that wasn't their original intent at all. Combat was pretty good, just not as wide or deep as FF16.



How much of the game did you play?

I have the last 5 hours to play, i have all the eikons and i experimented with the combat a lot, it is not deeper or wideer than ragnarock in any way shape or form.

Ff16 starts well, peak at titan (

Spoiler

if we wanna call that qte rigged bossfight with a villain that turns out a whiny bitch the peak) and then it fall off of a cliff, the scene with barnabas and jill in the beach are more cringe than anything with angrboring or thor's daughter.

 

[alloush]

Woah woah people, you need to chill out with the GoWR spoilers guys, any spoilers should be put under the Spoiler tag please!

 

[GymWolf]

It's not binary. You can have spectacle and agency at the same time. Many games have done it. Some even in the GOW franchise. SSM simply didn't try with Ragnarok

Kronos and poseidon, arguably the most spectacular boss fights in gow history are absolute shit gameplay\moveset wise compared to even the most basic humanoid boss fight in ragnarock (admittedly the best fights are often optional content), so no, you always sacrifice gameplay quality with these gigantic boss fights, at least in gow.

 

[ChiefDada]

I have the last 5 hours to play, i have all the eikons and i experimented with the combat a lot, it is not deeper or wideer than ragnarock in any way shape or form.

Ok. After you complete the final boss battle come back and let me know how it compares to GoW Ragnarok finale.

 

[GymWolf]

Ok. After you complete the final boss battle come back and let me know how it compares to GoW Ragnarok finale.

Ragnarock final boss fight was weak, i admit it.(although the queen valkirye and king berserker are the real final boss fights of the game)

The thing is, ragnarock didn't bored me for 110 hours, 50 hours in and i can't see myself finishing ff16, tjis is how much burned by the game i feel.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Kronos and poseidon, arguably the most spectacular boss fights in gow history are absolute shit gameplay\moveset wise compared to even the most basic humanoid boss fight in ragnarock (admittedly the best fights are often optional content), so no, you always sacrifice gameplay quality with these gigantic boss fights, at least in gow.

Okay I'm noticing a pattern. You have this presupposition that GOWR contains the apotheosis of gameplay mechanics and combat even against normal grunts and this is not true.

I can press light attack over and over, dodge when they go red, block break for the few enemies that require it when they go blue. And just spam runic attacks to win literally every single fight. The game can easily be mash mash mash, spam runic attacks to the end credits. Exactly like FF16 actually. So not exactly a hierarchy of gameplay mechanics.

The rest of what you're saying seems to be a repetitive assertion of "hey here's this awesome jaw dropping boss fight everyone and their mother loved when it came out and was really exciting to play through in real time" then, "yeeeeeeah well I say the mechanics were shitty QTE simplistic garbage. Bad mechanics. Mechanics weren't good. So uhh yeah that's just neutralized now" then praising the GOWR mechanics for some reason.

Even though the big lizard, Thor, Odin, the Valkyrie sisters, and I think even hemindall and fenrir but I can't recall completely all used literal QTEs