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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

I can't begin to imagine a hypothetical Uncharted 5; Uncharted 4 is NDs best looking game to date imo (I prefer art direction over TLOU)



There was a rumour a while back that a new Uncharted game was in development by a studio other than Naughty Dog. I'll be the first in line for a new Uncharted game trust me on that, Uncharted 2 and 3 are still my all time favourite games.

However the fact that Naught Dog have pretty much moved on from the franchise, I doubt the next game, even if it's happening would be a visual showcase for the PS5. I really want to be wrong on that.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
There was a rumour a while back that a new Uncharted game was in development by a studio other than Naughty Dog. I'll be the first in line for a new Uncharted game trust me on that, Uncharted 2 and 3 are still my all time favourite games.

However the fact that Naught Dog have pretty much moved on from the franchise, I doubt the next game, even if it's happening would be a visual showcase for the PS5. I really want to be wrong on that.
It was Sony bend. They hired some hollywood writers but after wasting a year and a half fighting ND on everything, the writers quit and Bend asked sony to do a new IP to avoid ND altogether.
 

mrqs

Member
Thing is that i don't think we gonna more linear games than open world shit at all.
However Max Payne 3 took 8 years to develop and $100 million budget
With low budget and shorter time development, it would had the same complexity as a Call of Duty game


This is what accomplished on PS2 in 2001, as linear games were the most detailed games in 6th gen.



I think this would be pretty common still if we didn't bake all the lighting. Modern video games fell in a hole so they could make it "look prettier". Most things had to be static or it would be extremely laborious to make it look good.

Hopefully UE5 + Ray Tracing can solve most of these issues. Who knows.
 
Personally, I'd be underwhelmed with a native PS5 version achieving only E3 demo visuals, and likely pass, but if they throw in RT AO/Shadows/Reflections i'll for sure consider purchasing. We're coming up on 3 full years with current gen, the bar needs to be raised substantially if they want to get any more $ out of me.

This generation has been a scam on the part of both Sony and Microsoft. To only have a few Sony games even being exclusive to the PS5 and not a single game taking full advantage of the i/o system, which was fully explained by Mark Cerny as being something that should be a revolution in terms of ease of development, it's scandalous really.

Spiderman 2 showing even a late '23 exclusive hasn't been designed around the ps5's i/o just shows Sony has been stringing us along. Neither Sony nor MS has made good on their promises of how these consoles should be performing. Sony going multiplatform and purposely lowering their graphical standards strikes a nerve.

Sonys been able to respond to Microsoft "plans" which has seen them go away from their promises/focus on Series X towards GamePass/PC. Sony can act accordingly to MS's weakness in the console space without the need to compete on visuals or performance (as seen with Redfall and Starfield). So Sony realized they can flip flop on Cross Gen, not push the bar and still rake in the profit.

The whole gen has been this downward spiral stemming from both companies changing business strategies with the consoles getting screwed. It wouldn't be as big a deal if they hadn't built this generation on lies or rather promises that they realizes they didn't "need" to fulfill.

Most bullshit generation ever. Totally disruptive to console gaming as we knew it too with subscriptions being pushed so hard. Just because the general baseline for visuals is generally good does not mean what we're getting isn't disappointing and full of deceitful behavior.
 

KXVXII9X

Member
I think this would be pretty common still if we didn't bake all the lighting. Modern video games fell in a hole so they could make it "look prettier". Most things had to be static or it would be extremely laborious to make it look good.

Hopefully UE5 + Ray Tracing can solve most of these issues. Who knows.
Graphical fidelity aside, this still feels better than a lot of modern games. The movement is fairly fluid and there are more actions. I notice in recent games they don't even animate the character opening and closing doors or picking things up anymore. The way the glass broke was also impressive. I'm getting more and more disappointed in the industry. I really don't think it is age that is the factor either. I realize that more and more.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Graphical fidelity aside, this still feels better than a lot of modern games. The movement is fairly fluid and there are more actions. I notice in recent games they don't even animate the character opening and closing doors or picking things up anymore. The way the glass broke was also impressive. I'm getting more and more disappointed in the industry. I really don't think it is age that is the factor either. I realize that more and more.
The fact that it ran at 60 fps on the weakest of the four consoles that gen speaks volumes about devs trying to squeeze everything out of hardware. Nowadays they are ok with dropping resolution below 720p and still cant hit 60 fps. star wars and ff16 both hover around 35 fps at times despite dropping to insanely low ps3 era resolutions.

I think MGSV is a masterpiece. I hate the story and the whole venom snake twist, but the game is peak open world game design, and sadly i think that gaming might have peaked with that. at least traditional open world gaming. every open world game that comes out just fails to live up to the freedom and agency offered in MGS5, what was essentially a ps3 era game. Death stranding is a different kind of game with great visuals but simply cant measure up to it. I feel like the devs have to rethink game design because that PS3 gen might have actually been the peak, and its all downhill from here.

honestly, i dont think i have played a better arcade racer since motorstorm pacific rift and apocalypse or better shooter campaign than halo 3. better rpg than mass effect 2 and skyrim. better action adventure game than uncharted 2. better survival horror game than tlou. better action game than gow3. better superhero game than arkham city. we've peaked.

ff16 and totk have given me hope that there is something left in this industry, but both games feel like ps3 games at times so i dont know lmao
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
This generation has been a scam on the part of both Sony and Microsoft. To only have a few Sony games even being exclusive to the PS5 and not a single game taking full advantage of the i/o system, which was fully explained by Mark Cerny as being something that should be a revolution in terms of ease of development, it's scandalous really.

Spiderman 2 showing even a late '23 exclusive hasn't been designed around the ps5's i/o just shows Sony has been stringing us along. Neither Sony nor MS has made good on their promises of how these consoles should be performing. Sony going multiplatform and purposely lowering their graphical standards strikes a nerve.

Sonys been able to respond to Microsoft "plans" which has seen them go away from their promises/focus on Series X towards GamePass/PC. Sony can act accordingly to MS's weakness in the console space without the need to compete on visuals or performance (as seen with Redfall and Starfield). So Sony realized they can flip flop on Cross Gen, not push the bar and still rake in the profit.

The whole gen has been this downward spiral stemming from both companies changing business strategies with the consoles getting screwed. It wouldn't be as big a deal if they hadn't built this generation on lies or rather promises that they realizes they didn't "need" to fulfill.

Most bullshit generation ever. Totally disruptive to console gaming as we knew it too with subscriptions being pushed so hard. Just because the general baseline for visuals is generally good does not mean what we're getting isn't disappointing and full of deceitful behavior.
Even if Ratchet comes out and runs at a shitty 2.5 tflops GPU with 2GB of ram, i think its safe to say that they are using the io system seeing as how Nixxes had to tap into direct storage on PC.

The bottomline is that SSD and IO were never going to be utilized by 99.99% of the devs because game developers almost never design games around gimmicks. they make the game they want to make and right now, the games dont need fancy IO or ssds. ratchet was an exception and it will remain that way. thats why from day one, i criticized the move to invest so much into super fast ssds and IO over bigger and more powerful GPUs. GPUs will be used by 100% of the devs.

other than that, yeah, it's not fun times if you're a graphics whore or someone who values interactivity. both are lacking because devs seem to be content not competing with each other.
 
The fact that it ran at 60 fps on the weakest of the four consoles that gen speaks volumes about devs trying to squeeze everything out of hardware. Nowadays they are ok with dropping resolution below 720p and still cant hit 60 fps. star wars and ff16 both hover around 35 fps at times despite dropping to insanely low ps3 era resolutions.

I think MGSV is a masterpiece. I hate the story and the whole venom snake twist, but the game is peak open world game design, and sadly i think that gaming might have peaked with that. at least traditional open world gaming. every open world game that comes out just fails to live up to the freedom and agency offered in MGS5, what was essentially a ps3 era game. Death stranding is a different kind of game with great visuals but simply cant measure up to it. I feel like the devs have to rethink game design because that PS3 gen might have actually been the peak, and its all downhill from here.

honestly, i dont think i have played a better arcade racer since motorstorm pacific rift and apocalypse or better shooter campaign than halo 3. better rpg than mass effect 2 and skyrim. better action adventure game than uncharted 2. better survival horror game than tlou. better action game than gow3. better superhero game than arkham city. we've peaked.

ff16 and totk have given me hope that there is something left in this industry, but both games feel like ps3 games at times so i dont know lmao
Daaaamn bro we are the same. You breaking down your favorite genre games was peak taste. Those are all my favorites as well and you kind of depressed me because I never stopped to consider they’ve all never been topped really for me despite being of the PS360 Gen :///
 

CGNoire

Member
The fact that it ran at 60 fps on the weakest of the four consoles that gen speaks volumes about devs trying to squeeze everything out of hardware. Nowadays they are ok with dropping resolution below 720p and still cant hit 60 fps. star wars and ff16 both hover around 35 fps at times despite dropping to insanely low ps3 era resolutions.

I think MGSV is a masterpiece. I hate the story and the whole venom snake twist, but the game is peak open world game design, and sadly i think that gaming might have peaked with that. at least traditional open world gaming. every open world game that comes out just fails to live up to the freedom and agency offered in MGS5, what was essentially a ps3 era game. Death stranding is a different kind of game with great visuals but simply cant measure up to it. I feel like the devs have to rethink game design because that PS3 gen might have actually been the peak, and its all downhill from here.

honestly, i dont think i have played a better arcade racer since motorstorm pacific rift and apocalypse or better shooter campaign than halo 3. better rpg than mass effect 2 and skyrim. better action adventure game than uncharted 2. better survival horror game than tlou. better action game than gow3. better superhero game than arkham city. we've peaked.

ff16 and totk have given me hope that there is something left in this industry, but both games feel like ps3 games at times so i dont know lmao
So true. Your list made me cry. So very true. :(
 
Even if Ratchet comes out and runs at a shitty 2.5 tflops GPU with 2GB of ram, i think its safe to say that they are using the io system seeing as how Nixxes had to tap into direct storage on PC.

The bottomline is that SSD and IO were never going to be utilized by 99.99% of the devs because game developers almost never design games around gimmicks. they make the game they want to make and right now, the games dont need fancy IO or ssds. ratchet was an exception and it will remain that way. thats why from day one, i criticized the move to invest so much into super fast ssds and IO over bigger and more powerful GPUs. GPUs will be used by 100% of the devs.

other than that, yeah, it's not fun times if you're a graphics whore or someone who values interactivity. both are lacking because devs seem to be content not competing with each other.

Yeah I totally agree about the GPU needing to have been better than what we got. The PC gpu's have proven that Sony and MS went the typical underachieving hardware route again. As time goes more gpu power is needed to achieve the same leaps of the past.

Be that as it may, Sony did eschew GPU and went out of their way to design the i/o, so even if we disregard 3rd party devs, for Sony themselves not to at least update their own engines for the ssd is a travesty.

Why do you say Phantom Pain is a ps3 game though? Game looked and ran like a true next gen game when it came out imo..but yeah I agree gaming passion peaked a long time ago culminating with those games you listed. Though I loved the ps4 generation too despite no 60 fps. Sony has fallen far from how they were throughout most of ps4 gen, the casuals havnt realized it yet.

Jim Ryan's been awful. The lack of integrity I see this gen blows my mind.
 

HofT

Banned
The fact that it ran at 60 fps on the weakest of the four consoles that gen speaks volumes about devs trying to squeeze everything out of hardware. Nowadays they are ok with dropping resolution below 720p and still cant hit 60 fps. star wars and ff16 both hover around 35 fps at times despite dropping to insanely low ps3 era resolutions.

I think MGSV is a masterpiece. I hate the story and the whole venom snake twist, but the game is peak open world game design, and sadly i think that gaming might have peaked with that. at least traditional open world gaming. every open world game that comes out just fails to live up to the freedom and agency offered in MGS5, what was essentially a ps3 era game. Death stranding is a different kind of game with great visuals but simply cant measure up to it. I feel like the devs have to rethink game design because that PS3 gen might have actually been the peak, and its all downhill from here.

honestly, i dont think i have played a better arcade racer since motorstorm pacific rift and apocalypse or better shooter campaign than halo 3. better rpg than mass effect 2 and skyrim. better action adventure game than uncharted 2. better survival horror game than tlou. better action game than gow3. better superhero game than arkham city. we've peaked.

ff16 and totk have given me hope that there is something left in this industry, but both games feel like ps3 games at times so i dont know lmao
I'm gonna say it. Tears of the Kingdom is peak freedom and agency in the open world genre.
 
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MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
Thats's the reason why i enjoyed every gunfight in rdr2 even if controls, aim and cover system are dogshit.

I really enjoyed RDR2. A lot of people complain about “slow” nature of the game but to me the immersive simulation aspect was the best thing about it. We need more western themed games. Why nobody did a western themed RPG yet? New Vegas doesn’t count!
 
Yeah I totally agree about the GPU needing to have been better than what we got. The PC gpu's have proven that Sony and MS went the typical underachieving hardware route again. As time goes more gpu power is needed to achieve the same leaps of the past.

Be that as it may, Sony did eschew GPU and went out of their way to design the i/o, so even if we disregard 3rd party devs, for Sony themselves not to at least update their own engines for the ssd is a travesty.

Why do you say Phantom Pain is a ps3 game though? Game looked and ran like a true next gen game when it came out imo..but yeah I agree gaming passion peaked a long time ago culminating with those games you listed. Though I loved the ps4 generation too despite no 60 fps. Sony has fallen far from how they were throughout most of ps4 gen, the casuals havnt realized it yet.

Jim Ryan's been awful. The lack of integrity I see this gen blows my mind.
He called it a PS3 game because MGSV literally came out on ps3 and was functionally the exact same game with same minor graphical and technical downgrades of course
 

alloush

Member
Even if Ratchet comes out and runs at a shitty 2.5 tflops GPU with 2GB of ram, i think its safe to say that they are using the io system seeing as how Nixxes had to tap into direct storage on PC.

The bottomline is that SSD and IO were never going to be utilized by 99.99% of the devs because game developers almost never design games around gimmicks. they make the game they want to make and right now, the games dont need fancy IO or ssds. ratchet was an exception and it will remain that way. thats why from day one, i criticized the move to invest so much into super fast ssds and IO over bigger and more powerful GPUs. GPUs will be used by 100% of the devs.

other than that, yeah, it's not fun times if you're a graphics whore or someone who values interactivity. both are lacking because devs seem to be content not competing with each other.
Not sure I totally agree with your IO theory since Cerny literally said they designed this based on feedback they got from the devs themselves. He said they asked the devs whats the number one thing they wanted to see improve, what’s the priority for them and the feedback they got was faster ssd’s and IO and Cerny obliged and gave them what they asked for. It’s not like Sony said “yeah let’s ditch everything else and just focus on creating a blazing fast io for the vibes.”

That shit cost them a lot to develop too, so beefing up the gpu alongside things like vram and bandwidth might have been the cheaper option.


Slick and sweet!
 
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PeteBull

Member
Character wise, senua looks better, location wise, not even close.
Character wise, many games look better, last of us 2 so ps4 game too, if we talking next gen lets wait till hellblade 2 launches(maybe holidays 2024, maybe 2025 sometime?) then we can compare;D
 
Not sure I totally agree with your IO theory since Cerny literally said they designed this based on feedback they got from the devs themselves. He said they asked the devs whats the number one thing they wanted to see improve, what’s the priority for them and the feedback they got was faster ssd’s and IO and Cerny obliged and gave them what they asked for. It’s not like Sony said “yeah let’s ditch everything else and just focus on creating a blazing fast io for the vibes.”

That shit cost them a lot to develop too, so beefing up the gpu alongside things like vram and bandwidth might have been the cheaper option.


Slick and sweet!

The SSD influences the game design as a whole, as had been discussed on this thread before in detail. Yes it does have an indirect effects on the kind of visuals the game can push but the primary purpose was always freedom in game design. I don't think there's anything controversial about that, especially if we take into account the developer feedback since.
 

alloush

Member
The fact that it ran at 60 fps on the weakest of the four consoles that gen speaks volumes about devs trying to squeeze everything out of hardware. Nowadays they are ok with dropping resolution below 720p and still cant hit 60 fps. star wars and ff16 both hover around 35 fps at times despite dropping to insanely low ps3 era resolutions.

I think MGSV is a masterpiece. I hate the story and the whole venom snake twist, but the game is peak open world game design, and sadly i think that gaming might have peaked with that. at least traditional open world gaming. every open world game that comes out just fails to live up to the freedom and agency offered in MGS5, what was essentially a ps3 era game. Death stranding is a different kind of game with great visuals but simply cant measure up to it. I feel like the devs have to rethink game design because that PS3 gen might have actually been the peak, and its all downhill from here.

honestly, i dont think i have played a better arcade racer since motorstorm pacific rift and apocalypse or better shooter campaign than halo 3. better rpg than mass effect 2 and skyrim. better action adventure game than uncharted 2. better survival horror game than tlou. better action game than gow3. better superhero game than arkham city. we've peaked.

ff16 and totk have given me hope that there is something left in this industry, but both games feel like ps3 games at times so i dont know lmao
Nostalgia is one helluva drug!

The SSD influences the game design as a whole, as had been discussed on this thread before in detail. Yes it does have an indirect effects on the kind of visuals the game can push but the primary purpose was always freedom in game design. I don't think there's anything controversial about that, especially if we take into account the developer feedback since.
If I may ask, what has the dev feedback been since? I honestly don't know.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
Not entirely related to graphics but certainly helps with producing a realistic racing game. The new tire physics for Forza look incredible, check it out.


Graphical fidelity reached a point where it's just good enough. IMO physics contribute way more to game feeling realistic than few more polygons. GTA IV can look dated AF but when you're speeding in your SUV on a side walk, it feels surprisingly real.

Thanks for sharing, will watch (listen) now.
 

alloush

Member
If this is true and this game doesn’t put The Matrix demo to shame then Rockstar should just shut down their studios.

 
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Nostalgia is one helluva drug!


If I may ask, what has the dev feedback been since? I honestly don't know.
I'll reply to this soon, currently at work. :)
If this is true and this game doesn’t put The Matrix demo to shame then Rockstar should just shut down their studios.


Apparently it's well known in the industry that Rockstar aggressively hire the best graphics/engine programmers and art designer in the world. RD2 and GTA 5 were testimony to that.

Although given the current trend, I'd be cautiously optimistic about looking for all the next-gen goodness in the next GTA title.
 

alloush

Member
I'll reply to this soon, currently at work. :)

Apparently it's well known in the industry that Rockstar aggressively hire the best graphics/engine programmers and art designer in the world. RD2 and GTA 5 were testimony to that.

Although given the current trend, I'd be cautiously optimistic about looking for all the next-gen goodness in the next GTA title.
GTA 6 is the most anticipated game in history. It has been in the works for a decade probably, it skipped an entire gen for the first time ever, it has a big ass budget, and RDR2 is one of the best games ever, so the bar is really really high for Rockstar, if they don't deliver there might be a huge backlash. Having said that there is no way GTA 6 is not gonna dazzle I just cannot foresee it honestly. Graphically it might not be what we're looking for, I do see it coming up short of our high expectations but everything else is just gonna be mind-blowing. That's my prediction for the game.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Why do you say Phantom Pain is a ps3 game though? Game looked and ran like a true next gen game when it came out imo..but yeah I agree gaming passion peaked a long time ago culminating with those games you listed. Though I loved the ps4 generation too despite no 60 fps. Sony has fallen far from how they were throughout most of ps4 gen, the casuals havnt realized it yet.
nah, MGS5 looked a gen behind Witcher 3, Batman Arkham, Division and other next gen open world games in 2015. Thats why it ran at 60 fps. it ran at 720p 30 fps on last gen systems.

maxresdefault.jpg



Not sure I totally agree with your IO theory since Cerny literally said they designed this based on feedback they got from the devs themselves. He said they asked the devs whats the number one thing they wanted to see improve, what’s the priority for them and the feedback they got was faster ssd’s and IO and Cerny obliged and gave them what they asked for. It’s not like Sony said “yeah let’s ditch everything else and just focus on creating a blazing fast io for the vibes.”

That shit cost them a lot to develop too, so beefing up the gpu alongside things like vram and bandwidth might have been the cheaper option.


Slick and sweet!
Devs told Cerny they needed an SSD. This is back when SATA ssds were the norm on PCs. They are rated at around 500 MBps. He went all out and put in a 5,500 MBps ssd. I can promise you, no one asked for that. SSD helps streamline game development so devs dont have to worry about managing assets as much. But SSDs impacting game design? Like actually built around the ssd? no one was going to do that. especially not for the PS5 when they have to ensure games ship on PCs with SATA ssds and on the much slower xbox consoles. There is a reason why no one has even bothered developing games around the ssd since ratchet.

Just look at how even ratchet, a game designed around the ssd, is able to run on HDD on PCs. Probably because they didnt come close to utilizing the 5.5 GBps speeds and ended up in the 500 MBps range which allowed them to scale down graphics for HDDs.

I'll reply to this soon, currently at work. :)

Apparently it's well known in the industry that Rockstar aggressively hire the best graphics/engine programmers and art designer in the world. RD2 and GTA 5 were testimony to that.

Although given the current trend, I'd be cautiously optimistic about looking for all the next-gen goodness in the next GTA title.
That 'In development since 2014' is what gives me pause. That tells me that it was an early gen PS4 title built around the jaguar CPU, 1.8 tflops GPU with HDDs holding them back.

Now Jason said that all 3,000 rockstar devs worked on RDR2 until 2018 so maybe they went back and got PS5 devkits and used them as base but none of the 90 leaks were running on ps5 or xsx devkits. nearly all were ps4 devkits and some PC. the footage was from 2019 too. Or was it 2020? Devs on twitter were defending rockstar saying early dev games look like that, ok. maybe the graphics get an upgrade but why are we developing on last gen devkits?

maybe im wrong and maybe they produce matrix quality graphics with insane NPC and traffic simulations, but every fear of mine has come true. they called me chicken little, but the sky did fall and we ended up with zero next gen games from sony and ms first party in 2022 and now spiderman looks worse than last gen games. I love RDR2, its my gotg, but its way too scripted and while it worked for rdr2, i dont think i wanted to play a scripted gta game.
 
That 'In development since 2014' is what gives me pause. That tells me that it was an early gen PS4 title built around the jaguar CPU, 1.8 tflops GPU with HDDs holding them back.

Now Jason said that all 3,000 rockstar devs worked on RDR2 until 2018 so maybe they went back and got PS5 devkits and used them as base but none of the 90 leaks were running on ps5 or xsx devkits. nearly all were ps4 devkits and some PC. the footage was from 2019 too. Or was it 2020? Devs on twitter were defending rockstar saying early dev games look like that, ok. maybe the graphics get an upgrade but why are we developing on last gen devkits?

maybe im wrong and maybe they produce matrix quality graphics with insane NPC and traffic simulations, but every fear of mine has come true. they called me chicken little, but the sky did fall and we ended up with zero next gen games from sony and ms first party in 2022 and now spiderman looks worse than last gen games. I love RDR2, its my gotg, but its way too scripted and while it worked for rdr2, i dont think i wanted to play a scripted gta game.

Being in development since 2013 can mean a lot of things, it's likely the game began pre-production 2013, so developers deciding things location, narrative, story, characters. This process alone could span 3-4 years for a game as big as GTA 6. It doesn't mean the graphics engine itself began development in 2013.

That's just me trying to be objective, but just going off what you have said and my hunch I wouldn't be suspired if this is a cross-gen title.
 

charles8771

Member
GTA 6 is the most anticipated game in history. It has been in the works for a decade probably, it skipped an entire gen for the first time ever, it has a big ass budget, and RDR2 is one of the best games ever, so the bar is really really high for Rockstar, if they don't deliver there might be a huge backlash. Having said that there is no way GTA 6 is not gonna dazzle I just cannot foresee it honestly. Graphically it might not be what we're looking for, I do see it coming up short of our high expectations but everything else is just gonna be mind-blowing. That's my prediction for the game.
Folks have been talking about GTA 6 since 2013, as GTA 5 was pretty much developed for PS3 and Xbox 360 in mind
GTA-5-September-17th.png




Were are the folks that said that GTA 6 will came out in 2017?
 

alloush

Member
nah, MGS5 looked a gen behind Witcher 3, Batman Arkham, Division and other next gen open world games in 2015. Thats why it ran at 60 fps. it ran at 720p 30 fps on last gen systems.

maxresdefault.jpg




Devs told Cerny they needed an SSD. This is back when SATA ssds were the norm on PCs. They are rated at around 500 MBps. He went all out and put in a 5,500 MBps ssd. I can promise you, no one asked for that. SSD helps streamline game development so devs dont have to worry about managing assets as much. But SSDs impacting game design? Like actually built around the ssd? no one was going to do that. especially not for the PS5 when they have to ensure games ship on PCs with SATA ssds and on the much slower xbox consoles. There is a reason why no one has even bothered developing games around the ssd since ratchet.

Just look at how even ratchet, a game designed around the ssd, is able to run on HDD on PCs. Probably because they didnt come close to utilizing the 5.5 GBps speeds and ended up in the 500 MBps range which allowed them to scale down graphics for HDDs.


That 'In development since 2014' is what gives me pause. That tells me that it was an early gen PS4 title built around the jaguar CPU, 1.8 tflops GPU with HDDs holding them back.

Now Jason said that all 3,000 rockstar devs worked on RDR2 until 2018 so maybe they went back and got PS5 devkits and used them as base but none of the 90 leaks were running on ps5 or xsx devkits. nearly all were ps4 devkits and some PC. the footage was from 2019 too. Or was it 2020? Devs on twitter were defending rockstar saying early dev games look like that, ok. maybe the graphics get an upgrade but why are we developing on last gen devkits?

maybe im wrong and maybe they produce matrix quality graphics with insane NPC and traffic simulations, but every fear of mine has come true. they called me chicken little, but the sky did fall and we ended up with zero next gen games from sony and ms first party in 2022 and now spiderman looks worse than last gen games. I love RDR2, its my gotg, but its way too scripted and while it worked for rdr2, i dont think i wanted to play a scripted gta game.
That makes sense regarding the SSD, Cerny did go all out on them. What's even weirder is the fact Sony developed this proprietary tech knowing full well they were gonna start porting games over to PC meaning not even Sony studios were gonna limit themselves and develop their games around the proprietary IO Sony and Cerny created for the game to still be possible to port over to PC.

As for GTA6 being in development since 2014 could also mean good news, it could mean we are getting the biggest, most detailed game ever made in history..... and it could be it started off as cross-gen:pie_invert:. But Rockstar has never failed us before and their blockbusters were always GoTY level, their last open world game RDR2 is my favorite of all time and hands down the most detailed open-world game ever made, people are still finding new stuff in that game today, 5 years after release. Also them getting burned up by the community on their God-awful remakes of the old GTA titles and facing immense backlash could also mean Rockstar not taking things lightly and phoning things in.
 

Piggoro

Member
Reveal trailer end where rda starts attacking the player where bullet Maul through trees and overview trailer explosion destroy nearby plant.
Man, I re-watched the trailer 5 times - all I could see is weightless explosions and bad animation and bigger plants kinda maybe reacting to the bullets (meanwhile, the short grass doesn't care when characters walk on it). Even if some plants get destroyed by explosion, it so timid and not new that I can't even call that "destruction".
 

Neo_game

Member
Every shooter need this, every bullet is simulated and make every kill visually different, even tlou2 doesn't get the same variety even with the best animations and ragdoll in the business.



Look at the kill at 2:44 that is peak hit reactions.
I think tlou2 has better ragdoll and the bodies have more realistic weight tho.

I expect god tier euphoria implementation in gt6.




Not sure why others do not use this. KZ2 was the first game I think I saw good ragdoll physics, 14yrs ago. Surely by now there should have been more advancement. I especailly like how AI being shot as he still pulls the trigger but due to physics of being hit has no control and shooting all over the place.



 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Not sure why others do not use this. KZ2 was the first game I think I saw good ragdoll physics, 14yrs ago. Surely by now there should have been more advancement. I especailly like how AI being shot as he still pulls the trigger but due to physics of being hit has no control and shooting all over the place.




Many games had ragdoll before kz2 and if i have tbh, ragdoll in kz2 was a bit too rigid for my taste, the best thing in that game were hit reactions.

But i would need to replay it again for a full evaluation.
 

Robbinhood

Banned
There are many aspects of a game you can build during its development that has very little to do with the hardware.

Voice acting, script, locations, even tuning the gameplay and the AI. You need to build out those operations. All the little details in Rockstar games take time and not necessarily power to run.

BTW Jagged Alliance 3 looks pretty dope!

I tried it on SMAA 4k and it was jaggy as hell, switching to DLSS 2 with 77% rendering looks jaggy free and just as sharp, its magic. Obv way better performance too. Foliage reminded me of HFW.
 

OCASM

Banned
Many games had ragdoll before kz2 and if i have tbh, ragdoll in kz2 was a bit too rigid for my taste, the best thing in that game were hit reactions.

But i would need to replay it again for a full evaluation.
Metroid Prime's ragdolls are pretty good. Weighty.
 

CamHostage

Member
Man, I re-watched the trailer 5 times - all I could see is weightless explosions and bad animation and bigger plants kinda maybe reacting to the bullets...

I also am not sure the explosion is actually destroying the bigger plant? When you watch that quick snippet closer, the palm fronds don't seem to leave the plant; it spawns additional leaves for damage debris, but the plant model appears to stay the same.

Timestamped:


Not that there aren't techniques to have destructible foliage, but choices and efficiencies factor into what tech gets used in these massive, procedurally-flocked game worlds. Avatar has some fantastic, bleeding-edge technology at work, but the idea that this game is these next-gen consoles finally unshackled to run at full power and every other developer is doing it wrong, that's overwrought; this is the state-of-the-art tech used elsewhere pushed in new directions under projects which can explore further thanks to the budget and time (and hardware).

(It also seems like the flying aspect may be restricted to places where you can cliffdive off those jump pads? I'm not sure what in-game rule restricts the Banshee from crossing biomes or how much flying will work to keep the experience satisfying, but that's would be a clever trick/savings to specifically allow flight to the places in the open world where A. the game can handle it and is built in all directions for multi-axis visibility, and B. is the most fun to fly in.)
 
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Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Yeah there’s no way GTA6 won’t be a show stopper.

It’s too big a release to not have top tier talent all over it.

I would be nervous if this was some untalented studio working on it, but this is R*, cream of the crop, and they have been hiring top tier talent for years now just to work on this. They know how to deliver the goods.

This isn't Microsoft with their incompetent and talentless studios like 343 working on Halo for 5 years only to release an AA looking game.

I am also expecting the "In development since 2014" stuff to be pre-production stuff. Story, characters, writing, setting, etc. Actual full-time game development probably started after RDR2. Which would mean around 5 years of actual game production thus far. Putting it right in line with other AAA releases around the industry.

I say we get a teaser trailer May 2024. Release next fall.
 
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ChiefDada

Gold Member
Spiderman 2 showing even a late '23 exclusive hasn't been designed around the ps5's i/o just shows Sony has been stringing us along. Neither Sony nor MS has made good on their promises of how these consoles should be performing. Sony going multiplatform and purposely lowering their graphical standards strikes a nerve.

Spider-Man 2 will be at SDCC on Thursday and I fully expect them to release the story trailer. Remember they dropped the Spiderman 2018 story trailer at SDCC as well. If the trailer isn't impressive, I will officially concede that SM2 is a lost cause.

 
Spider-Man 2 will be at SDCC on Thursday and I fully expect them to release the story trailer. Remember they dropped the Spiderman 2018 story trailer at SDCC as well. If the trailer isn't impressive, I will officially concede that SM2 is a lost cause.


Get your concession ready then
 

Ivan

Member
Not sure why others do not use this. KZ2 was the first game I think I saw good ragdoll physics, 14yrs ago. Surely by now there should have been more advancement. I especailly like how AI being shot as he still pulls the trigger but due to physics of being hit has no control and shooting all over the place.




And i remember everyone just shitting on Killzone 2 back in the day like it was some amateurish fraud of a game...now go play Horizon, you deserved it. :(
 
Personally, I'd be underwhelmed with a native PS5 version achieving only E3 demo visuals, and likely pass, but if they throw in RT AO/Shadows/Reflections i'll for sure consider purchasing. We're coming up on 3 full years with current gen, the bar needs to be raised substantially if they want to get any more $ out of me.
I whole heartedly agree.
 
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