Digital Foundry about XSX teraflops advantage : It's kinda all blowing up in the face of Xbox Series X

Vergil1992 said:
Assuming that these images are real, can anyone really believe that a problem like that is due to performance? That is, we are talking about the low polygonal load that is visible to the naked eye, the tentacles have edges on all sides. It is clear that it is a lod problem or a bug. I don't like Fortnite, but maybe I'll check it out on PS5/XSX out of curiosity.
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Is this a trick question? Yes, if you want higher performance or higher resolution, you can do that by lowering other settings. That is why they give you all these settings to tweak on PC, so you get to make the tradeoffs you want for the hardware you have.
Vergil1992 said:
But I highly doubt that this is an intentional downgrade. It reminds me a lot of the PS4/One stage. Xbox fans took advantage of any bugs, anisotropic filtering, textures, or any anomalies to justify a performance difference.
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Why is that hard to believe? In the Witcher PS5 has higher LOD and draw distance compared to XSX. It is hardly the first-time developers have made that choice for one reason or another. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been an update that fixed the bug if you want to call it that.
 
Yes, the images are real and it isn't hard to believe a reduction of quality in one area to satisfy another. That's PC Gaming 101. Just because it's put the Series X in a precarious situation doesn't mean it's unbelievable.
 
Dick Jones said:
This above is a reply to the tweet. Did DF state the Xbox Series X is equivalent to 25 terraflops? I can't believe that.
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Yes, they did say that, but it's basically a statement of how powerful the GPU would need to be to do RT without RT-specific hardware. I think Nvidia quotes the same thing with their GPUs, or something similar. 25 teraflops is really not that much for RT, which explains the bad RT in this hardware.

drganon said:
Xbox sure has cultivated an army of online dipshits.
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I don't get it. it's so much easier to just buy a PS5. But I guess console wars are the eternal GOTY for them.
 
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Tripolygon said:
Is this a trick question? Yes, if you want higher performance or higher resolution, you can do that by lowering other settings. That is why they give you all these settings to tweak on PC, so you get to make the tradeoffs you want for the hardware you have.

Why is that hard to believe? In the Witcher PS5 has higher LOD and draw distance compared to XSX. It is hardly the first-time developers have made that choice for one reason or another. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been an update that fixed the bug if you want to call it that.
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The Witcher 3 had a bug that they fixed. Had worse lod at launch and VG Tech discovered it was a bug, later patches fixed it.



They say it there.


The Witcher 3 is essentially identical. Tie for performance and highest resolution in XSX (performance mode), in quality (RT) mode XSX has a consistent performance advantage.

It's not a trick question. It's not uncommon for games to have bugs/LOD issues, without any crashes occurring. Many of them are fixed after updates without loss of performance. And I don't think those edges and that polygonal difference are intentional.
 
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diffusionx said:
I don't get it. it's so much easier to just buy a PS5. But I guess console wars are the eternal GOTY for them.
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Some people are so dumb they pick the most stupid ground to stake their fight against the "establishment". IQ starved folks who can't wrap their head around the fact they are stanning for the type of mega corp that twists governments and run desinformation campaigns, like they effectively treat their own customers like idiots who can't put two and two together.
 
Vergil1992 said:
What I'm trying to say is that if the resolution targets on XSX tend to be higher, it has to be for a reason. On PC you decide if you want higher resolution or performance, but developers usually opt for slightly higher resolutions on XSX. Not always, but it is more common for the XSX to handle higher resolutions than the PS5 than the other way around.
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The most common occurrence across multiplatform games is that the (fixed) resolutions targets are exactly the same. Among the remaining yes, there seem to be moderately more cases of XSX having slightly higher resolutions with DRS (again with the very important distinction that those often come at the cost of performance and sometimes IQ/fidelity unlike PS5) than vice versa. Then there are the outlier cases which exhibit a fixed resolution divide favoring either platform.
Vergil1992 said:
And I doubt there isn't a reason behind it when it has a slightly more powerful GPU.
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There, that is the thing. We are back to your initial personal assumption which needs to be warranted dictating your distorted and overly generalized interpretation of data at hand. The power of a GPU is the sum of all its throughputs relevant the game performance and in this aspect PS5 certainly isn't lacking compared to XSX. Which we have essentially are two evenly matched GPUs which are slightly faster depending on the throughput with different strengths and 'weaknesses'. We should consider all the aspects including frequency, layout, custom parts and overall efficiency without conveniently dismissing anything when trying determine the real world performance of two GPUs. And about the reason behind the DRS; did you consider the possibility that maybe PS5 is simply nimbler to react to potential performance loss and handling DRS quicker to avoid FPS drops perhaps due the API difference or its more 'flexible' hardware design?
 
Vergil1992 said:
The Witcher 3 had a bug that they fixed. Had worse lod at launch and VG Tech discovered it was a bug, later patches fixed it.


It's not a trick question. It's not uncommon for games to have bugs/LOD issues, without any crashes occurring. Many of them are fixed after updates without loss of performance. And I don't think those edges and that polygonal difference are intentional.
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I stand corrected on the Witcher. But it's not the only game that exhibits these slight differences between consoles besides the usual resolution and performance. Looked at in isolation you might not notice but compared side by side you'll notice them. Some games will feature better shadows filtering on PS5 or XSX etc. Most of the time everything will be identical but sometimes some games and engines favor one platform over the other.
 
Lysandros said:
The most common occurrence across multiplatform games is that the (fixed) resolutions targets are exactly the same. Among the remaining yes, there seem to be moderately more cases of XSX having slightly higher resolutions with DRS (again with the very important distinction that those often come at the cost of performance and sometimes IQ/fidelity unlike PS5) than vice versa. Then there are the outlier cases which exhibit a fixed resolution divide favoring either platform.

There, that is the thing. We are back to your initial personal assumption which needs to be warranted dictating your distorted and overly generalized interpretation of data at hand. The power of a GPU is the sum of all its throughputs relevant the game performance and in this aspect PS5 certainly isn't lacking compared to XSX. Which we have essentially are two evenly matched GPUs which are slightly faster depending on the throughput with different strengths and 'weaknesses'. We should consider all the aspects including frequency, layout, custom parts and overall efficiency without conveniently dismissing anything when trying determine the real world performance of two GPUs. And about the reason behind the DRS; did you consider the possibility that maybe PS5 is simply nimbler to react to potential performance loss and handling DRS quicker to avoid FPS drops perhaps due the API difference or its more 'flexible' hardware design?
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Well said. We've yet to see a total shutout by the XSX and the reason is because it's not always all about raw power from a graphics card. Ignoring the other parts of not only the card, but other essential anatomy in the system is a disservice.

It's "blowing up in the XSX's face" right now because the initial marketing simply does not match the results and the reason is because the systems are about as close in power as it gets with a few notches up or down in both compared to the other.
 
Vergil1992 said:
Assuming that these images are real, can anyone really believe that a problem like that is due to performance? That is, we are talking about the low polygonal load that is visible to the naked eye, the tentacles have edges on all sides. It is clear that it is a lod problem or a bug. I don't like Fortnite, but maybe I'll check it out on PS5/XSX out of curiosity.

But I highly doubt that this is an intentional downgrade. It reminds me a lot of the PS4/One stage. Xbox fans took advantage of any bugs, anisotropic filtering, textures, or any anomalies to justify a performance difference.
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From what I understand,the LOD difference isn't a big as user here tested the Series X version and the LOD problem still exists.
 
The reality is that when all else is equal a teraflop advantage is important.

That its not manifesting in major gains for real-world implementations is merely evidence that other aspects are equally impactful and in aggregate more than capable of overturning the theoretical advantage.
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
John comers consoles for a living knowing console wars give them clicks but

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its too late , he is part of the console wars (and social media)

3ed7e08e-da53-4262-a6ce-5cc94f50c675_text.gif
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
John comers consoles for a living knowing console wars give them clicks but

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I have been on gaf nonstop for the last two weeks discussing massive leaks amidst crazy fanboyism but im doing just fine.

sometimes you have to leave shitholes like twitter where there is zero moderation and all you see is vitriol on both sides.
 
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What DF should do if they are not interested in console wars, is to focus on what a game does and dismiss platform comparisons unless the differences are egregious.

They should also hold off on making judgements on hardware before the games come out.

More importantly they should put a leash on dip shits like Alex Buggaga who went around forums and discord spreading misinformation about hardware. What the fuck does he know.
 
Clear said:
The reality is that when all else is equal a teraflop advantage is important.

That its not manifesting in major gains for real-world implementations is merely evidence that other aspects are equally impactful and in aggregate more than capable of overturning the theoretical advantage.
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Yeah, but that was the point that Cerny made, right?
Even Spencer agreed with it while discussing it with DF.

Kinda weird to see the discussion still ongoing.
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
John comers consoles for a living knowing console wars give them clicks but

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John is the most objective chap at DF and he is currently doing plenty of great content about old games / remasters from old games. But it's odd that he declares himself a neutral voice in the console war space now that they found out their Xbox is definitely not a more powerful hardware than PS5.

For 3 years: "Xbox is more powerful, we'll show you in those clickbait articles"
After 3 years: "PS5 is a better designed console and is equal or better than XSX, no need for all those detailed comparisons nonsense that are only good for console warriors".
 
John should just hop off social media. It's clearly horrible for his mental health. Not everyone can brush off criticism and vitriol. I know people who genuinely get incredibly upset when random folks online speak ill of them. I tell them not to give a shit what keyboard warriors say or think but it's useless. They just can't ignore it. Everyone is different and there are folks who simply cannot deal with the toxicity of places like Twitter. At that point, the best thing for you is to just leave.
 
Physiognomonics said:
John is the most objective chap at DF and he is currently doing plenty of great content about old games / remasters from old games. But it's odd that he declares himself a neutral voice in the console war space now that they found out their Xbox is definitely not a more powerful hardware than PS5.

For 3 years: "Xbox is more powerful, we'll show you in those clickbait articles"
After 3 years: "PS5 is a better designed console and is equal or better than XSX, no need for all those detailed comparisons nonsense that are only good for console warriors".
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Don't forget the, "wHy dO wE nEeD pRo cOnSoLeS" filtered PR they ran for a few months that even John parroted, uncomfortably ;)

:messenger_weary::messenger_ok:
 
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DeepEnigma said:
Don't forget the, "wHy dO wE nEeD pRo cOnSoLeS" filtered PR they ran for a few months that even John parroted, uncomfortably ;)

:messenger_weary::messenger_ok:
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It's genuine in John's case. I mean, he's Mr. Smooth-30fps. He also loves trash like motion blur.
 
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The reality is simple: two consoles launching at the same time built for the same target price and sourcing parts from the same hardware manufacturer ended up almost identical in performance. No mysteries and no miracles.
 
Gaiff said:
Nah, I don't. John just loves games and was never upset at 30fps or any of this. He doesn't have Alex PCMR's elitist attitude and isn't corrupt from corporate cash like Rich.
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He tip toes around the tech limitations of the games he reviews as if to stay in developer's good graces. Also will provide refuge of one platform's weakness over another.

He's just as worse, just different branding.
 
Digital Foundry
"Major Example is The Callisto Protocol, where PS5 is superior in RT compare to Xbox Series X ,however on paper Series X should wipe the floor and beat PS5 easily."
"This is due to major reason is that PS5 is main market so the developers focus and development will be first on PS5, than comes PC or Xbox."
"We were hearing from developers that when these console were about to Launch that Xbox has major issues on it's software side and PS5 was easy for developer"
"Another reason is that Developers are just directly using DX12 (like PC code) on Xbox, where it's is wrong and developers cannot get the advantage of a horse power of Series X".

 
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ChiefDada said:
He tip toes around the tech limitations of the games he reviews as if to stay in developer's good graces. Also will provide refuge of one platform's weakness over another.

He's just as worse, just different branding.
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Your grievances with him are a whole other ballgame. I was simply saying that unlike Alex who doesn't want Pro consoles because he doesn't want to see them close the gap with PC, John is genuinely happy with 30fps and the limitations of the current machines. That's consistent with how he's been for years. 30fps and other limitations never really bothered him.
 
SimTourist said:
The reality is simple: two consoles launching at the same time built for the same target price and sourcing parts from the same hardware manufacturer ended up almost identical in performance. No mysteries and no miracles.
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Well, minus Kinect the XBO and PS4 woulda been about the same price, if not the exact same.

Like last gen....design goals, decisions by both Sony and MS are why the consoles perform the way they do.
 
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SimTourist said:
The reality is simple: two consoles launching at the same time built for the same target price and sourcing parts from the same hardware manufacturer ended up almost identical in performance. No mysteries and no miracles.
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One of those consoles is sold at profit and can be found for 400$ if you accept the lack of disc drive. The other have yet to do so. Not a dig, but from a consumer perspective the PS5 digital is a pretty good deal IMHO. And part of what made that possible is the good choices that Sony did when they designed the PS5. I would have prefered a 600$ 14 TF Xbox Series X with 20 GB of RAM if possible, but I can understand that sadly the market for it was probably too small for Xbox...
 
Whoever seriously thinks that "on paper Series X should wipe the floor and beat PS5 easily" on the matter of RT is a lunatic on top of being console tech illiterate.
 
SimTourist said:
The reality is simple: two consoles launching at the same time built for the same target price and sourcing parts from the same hardware manufacturer ended up almost identical in performance. No mysteries and no miracles.
Click to expand...

Except one is significantly cheaper to manufacture and manages to have unified memory, more cpu available, and I/O that is twice as fast.

It doesn't seem like they took the same path to the final product. One is clearly the superior piece of engineering.
 
PS5 has really amazed me with how it has performed this generation. Completely has stepped up and delivered. Sure, its one ugly fucker but it is an incredibly designed (performance wise) box.

I still think the Xbox is great, they are both great but the PS5 has definitely silenced a lot of people and has impressed me. I expected more from the Xbox from the marketing, but maybe its just Mark Cerny delivered!
 
"Sure, its one ugly fucker"

Neither console is winning beauty contests, but I'll never understand why that matters anyway. It plays games. I don't need it to look like Hayden Panettiere while doing so. :goog_lol:
 
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Lysandros said:
Whoever seriously thinks that "on paper Series X should wipe the floor and beat PS5 easily" on the matter of RT is a lunatic on top of being console tech illiterate.
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It felt like I was talking to toddlers when I was explaining over & over again that PS5 had most of the rendering advantages
 
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