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[adamsapple]

Well given you can't actually accept that a unified racing game design with a 30fps mode is not a 60fps simulator, why not - rather than linking to an article that reads like marketing piece with John's name on it - annotate this previous image with those RT techniques?

Putting aside the 30fps mode making it an arcade racer, a simulator gets played in a realistic simulated first person camera as it is main camera modes, so for the game to actually have those RT features in any morally honest marketed way, they should be present in normal gameplay, and as myslef and Emet_bp have been discussing the reflections and lighting in that shot don't look like RT, but SSR, presumably with regular SSAO, but am happy for you to annotate the image to enlighten us and make the strongest argument for actual RT in the game.

Please don't be offended but you sir do chat some shit.

Not the least bit surprising if you're familiar with the poster. Sadly.

 

[djjinx2]

Not the least bit surprising if you're familiar with the poster. Sadly.

To add to this, many streamers have praised Forzas physics against other similar games, handling model along with tyre wear, are planted firmly closer to realism than arcade. It's never going to be a true sim obviously.

 

[PaintTinJr]

To add to this, many streamers have praised Forzas physics against other similar games, handling model along with tyre wear, are planted firmly closer to realism than arcade. It's never going to be a true sim obviously.

If you are unable to make a counter argument while handling the pink elephant - of the base line design handling a Nyquist Rate feedback loop at 30fps - then you just aren't understanding the point.

This isn't like buying a game for PC designed for 60fps and getting a rubbish experience playing on duff hardware that only manages 30fps. This is a game built to be totally unified for gamers playing at 30fps and 60fps to complete the campaign and compete together online, meaning that the game is either harder at 30fps or everything is normalised around the 30fps.- like imagine GT7's last license challenge in the 70's Porsche at Spa in the wet playing at 30fps, it is near impossible for average gamers at 60fps as is, you couldn't drive that at 30fps without being a computer AI.

The F1 forza video (on a racing rig) where the person wins by fractions of a second that was posted in the thread and looked very arcade floating IMO, some of the oversteering moments should have caused the player to lose control completely, yet instead they stayed on the track quite easily which looked like AI assisted driving that gets used in 30fps games for reasons easily explained by physics and feedback loops.

 

[djjinx2]

If you are unable to make a counter argument while handling the pink elephant - of the base line design handling a Nyquist Rate feedback loop at 30fps - then you just aren't understanding the point.

This isn't like buying a game for PC designed for 60fps and getting a rubbish experience playing on duff hardware that only manages 30fps. This is a game built to be totally unified for gamers playing at 30fps and 60fps to complete the campaign and compete together online, meaning that the game is either harder at 30fps or everything is normalised around the 30fps.- like imagine GT7's last license challenge in the 70's Porsche at Spa in the wet playing at 30fps, it is near impossible for average gamers at 60fps as is, you couldn't drive that at 30fps without being a computer AI.

The F1 forza video (on a racing rig) where the person wins by fractions of a second that was posted in the thread and looked very arcade floating IMO, some of the oversteering moments should have caused the player to lose control completely, yet instead they stayed on the track quite easily which isn't looked like AI assisted driving like gets used in 30fps games for reasons easily explained by physics and feedback loops.

This is 60fps. End Of, say what YOU like BUT there are many frame rate comparisons. Why you mention GT, oh of course now it makes sense.

Tell you what I'll do, I'll let you prove it to me the game is not true 60fps

 

[PaintTinJr]

This is 60fps. End Of, say what YOU like BUT there are many frame rate comparisons. Why you mention GT, oh of course now it makes sense.

Tell you what I'll do, I'll let you prove it to me the game is not true 60fps

You are getting all emotional about a technical issue - which makes no sense - and AI frame insertion from 30fps using AI driver assist at the game's baseline would give you the exact same result.

If you tell me that 30fps mode is unplayable and massively harder to compete in time trialling, then that would suggest 60fps has been preserved as the baseline gameplay, but the depth of field/blur in a previous image for a 60fps capture already looked suspect.

 

[Elysium44]

You are getting all emotional about a technical issue - which makes no sense - and AI frame insertion from 30fps using AI driver assist at the game's baseline would give you the exact same result.

If you tell me that 30fps mode is unplayable and massively harder to compete in time trialling, then that would suggest 60fps has been preserved as the baseline gameplay, but the depth of field/blur in a previous image for a 60fps capture already looked suspect.

The Xbox cannot do AI frame insertion (I assume you are saying it's really just a 30fps game with interpolated 60fps? No it isn't.)

 

[adamsapple]

The Xbox cannot do AI frame insertion (I assume you are saying it's really just a 30fps game with interpolated 60fps? No it isn't.)

Of course it isn't.

Emula's ghost is haunting us from the afterlife.

 

[djjinx2]

You are getting all emotional about a technical issue - which makes no sense - and AI frame insertion from 30fps using AI driver assist at the game's baseline would give you the exact same result.

If you tell me that 30fps mode is unplayable and massively harder to compete in time trialling, then that would suggest 60fps has been preserved as the baseline gameplay, but the depth of field/blur in a previous image for a 60fps capture already looked suspect.

Depth of field and blur are not attached to fps

Again you think you know what you are talking about.

But your chatting waffle mate

Nyquist Frequency = Sampling Rate / 2 x by PaintTinJr waffle = reddit levels of shit.

see my formula is unbreakable

 

[PaintTinJr]

The Xbox cannot do AI frame insertion (I assume you are saying it's really just a 30fps game with interpolated 60fps? No it isn't.)

You tell me. It is a pick a poison situation because either 30fps is the normalised experience, or it is unusable in competing with 60fps, because at 30fps it is below the necessary Nyquist rate to provide a racing simulator feedback loop - unlike say comparing 60 to 90 or 60 to 120, where the game gets more precise and easier, but the baseline is already good enough for the smooth feedback loop to make higher just a nicer smoother feedback.

 

[Elysium44]

You tell me. It is a pick a poison situation because either 30fps is the normalised experience, or it is unusable in competing with 60fps, because at 30fps it is below the necessary Nyquist rate to provide a racing simulator feedback loop - unlike say comparing 60 to 90 or 60 to 120, where the game gets more precise and easier, but the baseline is already good enough for the smooth feedback loop to make higher just a nicer smoother feedback.

 

[adamsapple]

Thankfully, both Series consoles manage a basically impeccable output in frame-rate terms. I tried my hardest to push the game, putting myself in the middle of huge grids on rainy, overcast tracks and driving very poorly. These are situations that reliably produce frame-rate dips in other racing games, but don't seem to have any effect here. Forza is just perfectly locked to its frame-rate target, so the game runs at a steady 30fps in the visuals modes and 60fps in the performance modes.

This is impressive stuff. Turn 10 has clearly calibrated the game around hitting high frame-rates consistently on console hardware, and to achieve 60fps gameplay with two RT effects on Series X is a bit of an accomplishment. It's a perfectly smooth experience, and the game's high-quality motion blur perfectly accentuates the flow of the action.

Fucking Nyquil rate at it again ..

 

[JackMcGunns]

Was the poll reset after the lopsided votes from IGN's "Not fit for purpsose" comparison?

 

[adamsapple]

Was the poll reset after the lopsided votes from IGN's "Not fit for purpsose" comparison?

No.

 

[Thanati]

I'm an Xbox and PC person (hanging out until next year to get a PS5 pro) and I have to say, GT looks better, far better. Those close-up screenshots of the headlights, for example, were so much better on GT.

 

[ShakenG]

Well, this thread has gone to s**t.

 

[Elysium44]

Installed the game on PC today and even with the graphics on max settings the grass doesn't look any better than Series S in performance mode.

 

[Magik85]

Those close-up screenshots of the headlights, for example, were so much better on GT.

And none of those close-ups if the headlights showed in-game models

 

[Unknown?]

Installed the game on PC today and even with the graphics on max settings the grass doesn't look any better than Series S in performance mode.

Is that a glitch? No way PC wouldn't have grass. Looks like crap!!

 

[Unknown?]

And none of those close-ups if the headlights showed in-game models

The in-game models are fantastic. Only a few are bugged and not good.

 

[sendit]

Is that a glitch? No way PC wouldn't have grass. Looks like crap!!

PC Version is bugged atm (missing grass, missing trees, broken ray tracing, unfinished textures, loading screens every where, horrible performance on a 4090, etc...). Game was released in a horrible state, and is still in a horrible state. The worse thing is, T10 has done zero PR to temper the issues.

 

[Elysium44]

Is that a glitch? No way PC wouldn't have grass. Looks like crap!!

You tell me, is that how it looks on Series X? These are the settings I am using.

 

[Elysium44]

PC Version is bugged atm (missing grass, missing trees, broken ray tracing, unfinished textures, loading screens every where, horrible performance on a 4090, etc...). Game was released in a horrible state, and is still in a horrible state. The worse thing is, T10 has done zero PR to temper the issues.

I noticed the loading is a lot slower on PC than on a Series S. The install size is a lot bigger on PC, I wonder if it's loading higher resolution textures or something. Not that you can notice it really looking any better though.

 

[BigLee74]

The in-game models are fantastic. Only a few are bugged and not good.

Proven by Turk:

GT7 in game car models have a significantly lower LOD than its photomode models, and are demonstrably lower LOD than Forza in game car models (at least for the player car).

Forza lowers LODs further for its AI cars (something GT7 doesn't do - it has the same for all).

Car cockpits are generally better detailed in GT7 (although not so much for newer Forza car models).

Regarding the grass texture in Forza, I can't believe that's not just a simple bug. It looks horrendous, and is worse than Forza 5!

A very mixed bag for Forza in my eyes. Overall it is fine, but it should have been much better. Another game that came in hot?

 

[MCplayer]

Gran Turismo 7 vs Forza Motorsport Daytime Timelapse

 

[TrebleShot]

GT7 is almost two years old and cross gen and still looks significantly better than F8 even if it's lower res on frame rate unlocked mode and F8 is on a 4090.

 

[DJ12]

GT7 in game car models have a significantly lower LOD than its photomode models, and are demonstrably lower LOD than Forza in game car models (at least for the player car).

But that's pc vs ps5 so who cares in this thread, obviously you do....

id also argue against the term its 'proven', gt models look better in every situation I've seen.

 

[poppabk]

You tell me. It is a pick a poison situation because either 30fps is the normalised experience, or it is unusable in competing with 60fps, because at 30fps it is below the necessary Nyquist rate to provide a racing simulator feedback loop - unlike say comparing 60 to 90 or 60 to 120, where the game gets more precise and easier, but the baseline is already good enough for the smooth feedback loop to make higher just a nicer smoother feedback.

I hope that MS purchase another publisher soon.

 

[BigLee74]

But that's pc vs ps5 so who cares in this thread, obviously you do....

id also argue against the term its 'proven', gt models look better in every situation I've seen.

Easy princess! If it's XSX v PS5 only (checks title), and those in game car model comparisons were PC v PS5, then my bad.

Having said that, I'm not seeing you getting up in the face of people posting XSS screen shots? I mean come on man, how is that fair on the poor old XSS?

As for your second sentence, if you still think that the GT7 in game car models look better than the Forza (PC) in game car models, I don't know what to say. The evidence was right there in front of our eyes.

Still, I get it, you like GT7. That's perfectly ok.

Here's another dig at Forza to prove no ill feeling. The steering wheel animation for the 180 degree turn is awful. The arms remain almost perfectly straight. I was playing GTA4 last night, and it had a better steering animation!

 

[SABRE220]

You tell me. It is a pick a poison situation because either 30fps is the normalised experience, or it is unusable in competing with 60fps, because at 30fps it is below the necessary Nyquist rate to provide a racing simulator feedback loop - unlike say comparing 60 to 90 or 60 to 120, where the game gets more precise and easier, but the baseline is already good enough for the smooth feedback loop to make higher just a nicer smoother feedback.

Are you high bro? I mean I did this in my teenage when I first got high thinking im sounding like Einstein when the reality was quite different. It just seems like you're spamming random words and attempting to sound technically proficient when you're barely making any coherent sense.

 

[Negotiator101]

Are you high bro? I mean I did this in my teenage when I first got high thinking im sounding like Einstein when the reality was quite different. It just seems like you're spamming random words and attempting to sound technically proficient when you're barely making any coherent sense.

This guy was in the acquisition thread writing all kinds of conspiracy theories, suffice to say he was wrong. I kinda understand what he's getting at but I also don't

 

[SenkiDala]

However the game looks, I really like it, it is very nice to play, I like how it looks (playing on XSX), a great game.

 

[Elysium44]

Yes credit where it's due, they have dramatically improved the car handling and physics over all the previous games and the multiplayer is legitimately very good, as good as or better than GT7 I would say.

 

[djjinx2]

Yes credit where it's due, they have dramatically improved the car handling and physics over all the previous games and the multiplayer is legitimately very good, as good as or better than GT7 I would say.

I can't compare as haven't played any MP racer since DC, but I'm loving how Forza feels and looks (Series X)

 

[Senua]

Yes credit where it's due, they have dramatically improved the car handling and physics over all the previous games and the multiplayer is legitimately very good, as good as or better than GT7 I would say.

It feels so damn good on a pad huh

 

[Elysium44]

The liveries look terrible on Series S, I just compared them to the PC version (I assume Series X is this good too?)

Liveries on the Xbox One versions of Forza didn't look this bad. One of these is a random livery I downloaded so when I first saw it on Series S I thought maybe the artist just didn't do a very good job, but when you see it on PC, it looks perfect. Note I'm using the same level of zoom so it is a fair comparison.

 

[MCplayer]

A dramatic cinematic explanation of unrealistic rain in Forza for Forza babies to understand (I have no idea what the person is saying but I know what its talking about)

 

[Three]

The liveries look terrible on Series S, I just compared them to the PC version (I assume Series X is this good too?)

Liveries on the Xbox One versions of Forza didn't look this bad. One of these is a random livery I downloaded so when I first saw it on Series S I thought maybe the artist just didn't do a very good job, but when you see it on PC, it looks perfect. Note I'm using the same level of zoom so it is a fair comparison.

That's likely what happens when you have the shitty RAM of the Series S

 

[Physiognomonics]

The grass textures in Forza Motorsport are truly horrendous. We are taking Xbox 360 levels of texture. I can't believe that was necessary.

Typical for a XSS game. The problem is the lack of available memory so the resolution of assets is taking a big hit sometimes even if the GPU could render higher resolution ones. It's really tragic.

 

[Negotiator101]

I think overall its a great looking game but it has its problems graphically speaking, but what's going on with the clouds in the game? look terrible far worse that GT7 or Forza Horizon, what's going on?

 

[adamsapple]

The Nyquil is strong in this one, 100% locked performance across the board and not even a single tear either.

 

[sinnergy]

I think overall its a great looking game but it has its problems graphically speaking, but what's going on with the clouds in the game? look terrible far worse that GT7 or Forza Horizon, what's going on?

They are completely volumetric clouds, look good to me, they look the best overcast and partly cloudy .

 

[adamsapple]

It feels so damn good on a pad huh

It really does. The last time I had this much fun with a racer (well, the last before the obvious Forza Horizon example) was Burnout Paradise.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

It really does. The last time I had this much fun with a racer (well, the last before the obvious Forza Horizon example) was Burnout Paradise.

Agreed. It's pretty much perfect on the pad.

 

[Riky]

The Nyquil is strong in this one, 100% locked performance across the board and not even a single tear either.

Pretty incredible for a game running 2 or even 3 RT features and the most advanced physics simulation on console.

 

[SkyHighTrees]

They are completely volumetric clouds, look good to me, they look the best overcast and partly cloudy .

It's the same skybox on every track though. Sadly. This kind of detail is gts bread and butta

 

[SkyHighTrees]

Pretty incredible for a game running 2 or even 3 RT features and the most advanced physics simulation on console.

Your posts are full of marketing quotes gimmicks. ACC is available on both consoles and has far better physics, don't think what turn 10 says is absolute truth

 

[Riky]

Your posts are full of marketing quotes gimmicks. ACC is available on both consoles and has far better physics, don't think what turn 10 says is absolute truth

You don't need marketing when you can see it with your own eyes, in game.

 

[Negotiator101]

They are completely volumetric clouds, look good to me, they look the best overcast and partly cloudy .

Yeah, but don't they look almost pixilated, I'm not sure I'm describing it right but they look off to me.

 

[Senua]

Yeah, but don't they look almost pixilated, I'm not sure I'm describing it right but they look off to me.

Yea they look pretty bad

 

[sinnergy]

It's the same skybox on every track though. Sadly. This kind of detail is gts bread and butta

I don't think it's a skybox, but a realtime set-up. With a sky and cloud set-up a bit like in 3D software .