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[Neo Blaster]

To take games that have a performance mode and fidelity mode and run them in fidelity mode at 60fps with an improved image. From what we have seen so far....

That's exactly.what I wanted since I heard the rumors.

What´s the point of the very expensive upgrade then?

DLSS made native resolution obsolete, now PSSR is going the same way. Why are you so concerned?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

There are rumors swirling around that the 30th Anniversary show is going to be big for PS5. I think the fact that they're bothering with TGS after 5 years of absence (which incidentally was their 25th anniversary) is quite instructive.

Its going to be a fun 5 or so days next week

 

[Spiral1407]

This is proof that a "pro system" was never necessary. Optimisation is the problem, not the hardware.

 

[Gaiff]

They can't even follow the technical aspects of how PSSR works - based on their headline gatcha 840p designed to misinform - how do they know what they are counting from an algorithm they don't understand - and might be counting inferred filled pixels or across lanczos filled and AI inferred filled, Or across native, AI inferred filled and lanczos filled - all with different resolutions?

it isn't even a case of them having access to the console and game to position the game camera to do what they used to do...I'm reading they had just 6secs of footage. So IMO the only way it was easy is that they have an inside source...

because a kid that can't count can say it is easy, doesn't mean they are getting the correct answers.

Don't know what to tell you. Was lurking beyond3d and somebody brought up the challenges of counting pixels when PSSR is involved and Alex said it was surprisingly easy. It's not like DF never ran into issues with pixel counting. There are a few instances where they admitted it was very challenging.

 

[GHG]

You've been around long enough to know they do a lot of coverage like this around any new console launches.

No, I've not seen them do a 2 hour analysis on 10 minutes (max) of footage before.

 

[PaintTinJr]

So, which is it?

Well I never said it would be guaranteed to run it as efficiently on RDNA3, But there are enough high-end RDNA2 and 3 cards for it to do the work assuming FP16 is used like Ragnarok ML AI upscaling, rather than INT8 or INT4

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

What´s the point of the very expensive upgrade then?

To play xbox games

 

[adamsapple]

No, I've not seen them do a 2 hour analysis on 10 minutes (max) of footage before.

The Direct's cover multiple topics and subscriber Q & A.

I doubt the entire 2 hours will be of them covering the 10 minute video.

But as far as general coverage and deep analyzing (sometimes overly so) is not really surprising.

 

[XXL]

Its going to be a fun 5 or so days next week

Yeah, we should be getting a ton of information regarding Playstation software and hardware over the next few weeks.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Don't know what to tell you. Was lurking beyond3d and somebody brought up the challenges of counting pixels when PSSR is involved and Alex said it was surprisingly easy. It's not like DF never ran into issues with pixel counting. There are a few instances where they admitted it was very challenging.

To be easy they first have to be able to show they can deconstruct 1 frame from the video and highlight what is native, what holes were filled with inferred AI ML, and what were filled with Lanczos. If they've just taken compared PC resolutions to the video, their methodology is suspect at best

 

[tommib]

He's been here longer than you think, this is his old account - @JAYSIMPLE

He's been doing the same shit since 2013 across multiple forums.

11 years of trolling. A life well spent.

 

[Audiophile]

Fair expectation imo..


PS5 Quality:
1296p @ 30fps, RT Off, TAA/FSR
1152p @ 40fps, RT Off, TAA/FSR

PS5 Performance:
900P @ 60FPS, RT Off, TAA/FSR


PS5 Pro Quality:
1440p @ 30fps, RT Med, PSSR
1296p @ 40fps, RT Med, PSSR

PS5 Pro Performance:
1080p @ 60FPS, RT Low, PSSR


Frankly, Sony shouldn't even allow sub-900/1080 base resolutions on PS5/PS5 Pro(patched). Some quality control should be enforced and standards maintained for the customer.

 

[Xaeroxcore666]

Improved visuals and frame rate. No one is saying you have to buy it my man. I'm still not sure I am.

Not $700 worth improved visuals and framerate and even with cuts, like the disc drive. And im in Latin América, where each dollar is more expensive....Thing is, this how they are testing consumers to see how far they can get until the breaking point. If numbers work for them with this PS5 Pro, expect PS6 with even more cuts and more expensive. And also Sony investing on this, or stuff no one asked about like PS Portal, instead on focus on games that make use of current PS5 capabilities beyond it´s limits...But NO, we got Concord then! But Hey! "No one is forcing you to buy it"...

 

[Topher]

Not $700 worth improved visuals and framerate and even with cuts, liuke the disc drive. And im in Latin América, where each dollar is more expensive....Thing is, this how they are testing consumers to see how far they can get until the breaking point. If numbers work for them with this PS5 Pro, expect PS6 with even more cuts and more expensive. And also Sony investing on this, or stuff no one asked about like PS Portal, instead on focus on games that make use of current PS5 capabilities beyond it´s limits...But NO, we got Concord! But Hey! "No one is forcing you to buy it"...

Remains to be seen if visual upgrades are worth it or not. You decide that for you and no one else. Same for me. The "waters" were already tested at the beginning of this gen when folks were paying even more than $700 for consoles from scalpers. The days of subsidized consoles are pretty much over regardless of PS5 Pro.

You say no one asked for PS Portal and yet it sold extremely well. Concord didn't. Two examples of where gamers made it clear what they want and don't want. You don't have to like the "no one is forcing you to buy it" take, but that's just how it is.

 

[FireFly]

To be easy they first have to be able to show they can deconstruct 1 frame from the video and highlight what is native, what holes were filled with inferred AI ML, and what were filled with Lanczos. If they've just taken compared PC resolutions to the video, their methodology is suspect at best

Where did Sony confirm that they are using the method described in the VR reconstruction patent for PSSR?

 

[MisterXDTV]

The Alan Wake 2 stuff? That was footage that Sony gave to DF.

Sony didn't give shit to DF, it's the same ProRes trailer that IGN has

We are always talking about that 9-minute trailer with Cerny's presentation

There is NO OTHER FOOTAGE available

 

[ShakenG]

So pro won´t offer native 4K, won´t offer 60 fps secured on all games...But was it´s 100% secured is the $700 price without disc drive...I can´t understand how could be people defending this and even stating "day one". People like this is as guilty as the companies for the current state of this industry.

Day1

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

So, which is it?

Haha...

RDNA 2 and 3 are both capable of some matrix math. But they are not using dedicated hardware to accomplish this. Just repurposing their shaders with different instruction sets. This is why its use case is so limited, and will usually come at the expense of total raster performance. Kinda the same way how they used shaders to handle certain tasks in their RT pipeline rather than have dedicated hardware for them.

ML reconstruction for real-time gaming, requires around 50-150TOPS. Make no mistake, if AMD RDNA2/RDNA3 GPUs could reliably and repeatedly output at least 50TOPS... we would have heard about it. The fact that even AMD doesn't disclose this number, should tell us all we need to know. Instead, they keep making these empty claims about how their GPUs can do this and that or be used for this and that as if anyone would actually use them that way.

But just watch, when RDNA4 comes along, its TOPS number will be front and center.

 

[mayham2199]

I think opening preorders when they are is an interesting timing with TGS

I've been saying the same thing. Might be overthinking it but to me it seems like to much of a coincidence.

 

[Zathalus]

Sony didn't give shit to DF, it's the same ProRes trailer that IGN has

We are always talking about that 9 minute trailer with Cerny's presentation

There is NO OTHER FOOTAGE available

There is quite clearly footage in the ProRes file that wasn't in the trailer.

 

[ChiefDada]

Frankly, Sony shouldn't even allow sub-900/1080 base resolutions on PS5/PS5 Pro(patched). Some quality control should be enforced and standards maintained for the customer.

Disagree. It's entirely dependent on how competent the upscaler is in bringing about a good image quality, and that will differ on a game by game, engine by engine basis as Cerny alluded to. Why should I care that the internal resolution is 200p if the upscaler is producing results indistinguishable from native 8k? Goofy example to get the point across.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Not $700 worth improved visuals and framerate and even with cuts, like the disc drive. And im in Latin América, where each dollar is more expensive....Thing is, this how they are testing consumers to see how far they can get until the breaking point. If numbers work for them with this PS5 Pro, expect PS6 with even more cuts and more expensive. And also Sony investing on this, or stuff no one asked about like PS Portal, instead on focus on games that make use of current PS5 capabilities beyond it´s limits...But NO, we got Concord then! But Hey! "No one is forcing you to buy it"...

People will for sure vote with their wallets

Why do we think GPUs have gone sky high? Because enough people like myself will buy them

And you're likely right if enough people buy this Pro its likely Sony will stay high on their price of the PS6 especially if rumors are true and there is no other traditional console in the same launch window

 

[Zathalus]

To be easy they first have to be able to show they can deconstruct 1 frame from the video and highlight what is native, what holes were filled with inferred AI ML, and what were filled with Lanczos. If they've just taken compared PC resolutions to the video, their methodology is suspect at best

You're critiquing DF based on a patent filed 3.5 years ago. A patent that probably has nothing to do with PSSR considering the lack of evidence connecting the two.

 

[Bojji]

So, which is it?

They have WMMA in RDNA3, but does this enable ML FSR4?

DF had several videos dedicated to explaining what DLSS is and how it works.

I think Sony fans are the most confused right now. They think that everyone other than them don't know what they are talking about. In reality they don't know shit...

No, I've not seen them do a 2 hour analysis on 10 minutes (max) of footage before.

Their videos are usually about 1-2h long and they can talk about anything that long.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Fanboy of what? Xbox? You can be Xbox fanboy without owning Xbox? Thats new!

Everyone owns an Xbox.

 

[MisterXDTV]

There is quite clearly footage in the ProRes file that wasn't in the trailer.

No there isn't.

I have both and even did a re-encode for my media player

 

[Clear]

There is quite clearly footage in the ProRes file that wasn't in the trailer.

Its called B-Roll, and given it was sourced from the same captures at the same time, from the same builds, as the trailer footage its basically interchangeable.

Interchangably redundant in this instance as no doubt not only the builds being shown, but the system firmware on the PS5 Pro will doubtlessly be upgraded -likely multiple times- before release in November.

 

[GHG]

Their videos are usually about 1-2h long and they can talk about anything that long.

There has never been an instance where they have done a 2 hour video based on 10 minutes of footage.

 

[FoxMcChief]

And that's fair. I'm looking forward to watching it myself, but some here are running with this one reported resolution and holding it up above all else. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Mr Moose]

No there isn't.

I have both and even did a re-encode for my media player

Is this in the presentation? I don't remember it.

 

[Zathalus]

No there isn't.

I have both and even did a re-encode for my media player

There is GT7 footage in the ProRes file that is not present in the reveal trailer.

Its called B-Roll, and given it was sourced from the same captures at the same time, from the same builds, as the trailer footage its basically interchangeable.

Interchangably redundant in this instance as no doubt not only the builds being shown, but the system firmware on the PS5 Pro will doubtlessly be upgraded -likely multiple times- before release in November.

Well yeah, I'm not denying it's all from the same source. Just that there is a bit more footage on the ProRes file.

And yes, upgrades to PSSR are certain.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Frankly, Sony shouldn't even allow sub-900/1080 base resolutions on PS5/PS5 Pro(patched). Some quality control should be enforced and standards maintained for the customer.

Unfortunately, Sony can't do that. And if they did, devs would just adhere to those rez limits and cut out features from the games. As opposed to their current approach of making the game as feature-complete (fidelity wise) as possible at the expense of Rez.

All Sony can do is set examples, and that is where their fist party comes. if Sony hadn't made this thing of all their first-party games having a 60fps mode, it wouldn't have become the generally expected addition it is on their platform today, and devs wouldn't even bother with it.

Not $700 worth improved visuals and framerate and even with cuts, like the disc drive. And im in Latin América, where each dollar is more expensive....Thing is, this how they are testing consumers to see how far they can get until the breaking point. If numbers work for them with this PS5 Pro, expect PS6 with even more cuts and more expensive. And also Sony investing on this, or stuff no one asked about like PS Portal, instead on focus on games that make use of current PS5 capabilities beyond it´s limits...But NO, we got Concord then! But Hey! "No one is forcing you to buy it"...

Honestly, this is not for you to say to anyone, any more than its my place telling you that its worth it.

Anyway you want to look at it, the PS5pro is better hardware than the base PS5. It also supports all the peripherals that the base PS5 supports. Which unfortunately in the current market, includes the disc drive. That thing was turned into a peripheral the second the slim was announced. If you think $700 is too much for you to pay? Thats on you, that's not saying however, that the product is not worth $700, that's just saying you can't or don't want to pay that for a console.

Two different things.

As for the other stuff you said... now you are just rambling... eg, considering how well the PS portal has gone on to sell, one can say it's a blessing to Sony they haven't got people like you telling them what to do. But that should tell you something, because YOU didn't ask for something, or YOU don't see the value in something, 100% doesn't mean others won't. And chances are, those others would likely outnumber you.

 

[Midn1ght]

$1400 to me is nothing for me to spend on a hobby

Do you have other hobbies?

I have soft and delicate hands.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Do you have other hobbies?

I have soft and delicate hands.

Old man hobbies like traveling and metal detecting the beaches down here in Florida

 

[Xaeroxcore666]

Remains to be seen if visual upgrades are worth it or not. You decide that for you and no one else. Same for me. The "waters" were already tested at the beginning of this gen when folks were paying even more than $700 for consoles from scalpers. The days of subsidized consoles are pretty much over regardless of PS5 Pro.

You say no one asked for PS Portal and yet it sold extremely well. Concord didn't. Two examples of where gamers made it clear what they want and don't want. You don't have to like the "no one is forcing you to buy it" take, but that's just how it is.

1. Until now, the visuals shown make the upgrade not worthy, and even worst with that price.

2. Sadly agree, people went nuts buying overpriced stuff from scalpers just for following the trend and have that instagram picture of them already having the "brand new PS5 before anyone else". So, yes, you can´t blame 100% Sony for making this move with the Pro. But if we go numbers wise, most of the polls on NeoGaf on other media asking about if people is interested in pro shows big NO. Also, the official trailer itself has more dislikes than likes and it´s full of negative comments.

3. Can you please share some sales figures of Portal?

People will for sure vote with their wallets

Why do we think GPUs have gone sky high? Because enough people like myself will buy them

And you're likely right if enough people buy this Pro its likely Sony will stay high on their price of the PS6 especially if rumors are true and there is no other traditional console in the same launch window

Agree, sadly agree. So i really hope people vote good this time with their wallets. Time will tell. But i´m sure if this it´s successful enough at that price, me, and i´d dare to say probably too much people, will drop the PS train for next generations. If there is no direct competition, PC will be the main choice for a desktop main game system. At least on my part, even if Pro would have a more decent price, i´ve chosen to stick with my regular PS5 and upgrade my gaming PC, which now is obsolete.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Agree, sadly agree. So i really hope people vote good this time with their wallets. Time will tell. But i´m sure if this it´s successful enough at that price, me, and i´d dare to say probably too much people, will drop the PS train for next generations. If there is no direct competition, PC will be the main choice for a desktop main game system. At least on my part, even if Pro would have a more decent price, i´ve chosen to stick with my regular PS5 and upgrade my gaming PC, which now is obsolete.

I also think these higher prices are just the world we live in now

Just look at the prices of the current consoles 4 years in now

 

[3liteDragon]

Is that DF video dropping today on YouTube?

 

[Topher]

1. Until now, the visuals shown make the upgrade not worthy, and even worst with that price.

2. Sadly agree, people went nuts buying overpriced stuff from scalpers just for following the trend and have that instagram picture of them already having the "brand new PS5 bofre anyone else". So, yes, you can´t blame 100% Sony for making this move with the Pro. But if we go numbers wise, most of the polls on NeoGaf on other media asking about if people is interested in pro shows big NO. Also, the official trailer itself has more dislikes than likes and it´s full of negative comments.

3. Can you please share some sales figures of Portal?

1. Not enough information at this point to say one way or another, imo. For me, at least.

2. Yeah, that's too be expected at this price point. I said the other day that I feel like Sony is ripping the band-aid off and we are seeing non-subsidized sticker shock as a result. But even last gen's much more reasonably price PS4 Pro wasn't widely adopted either. Piers Harding-Rolls said he expected PS5 Pro sales to be in line with PS4 Pro.

PS5 Pro sales will follow similar trajectory to PS4 Pro, analyst predicts

Noteable games analyst Piers Harding-Rolls of Ampere Analysis expects the PS5 Pro's sales to follow a very similar trend to those of the PS4 Pro.

www.eurogamer.net

3. We don't have numbers, I don't believe, but Circana said it is the best selling accessory this year.

PlayStation Portal Is The Best-Selling Accessory This Year

According to the latest reports, PlayStation Portal was the best-selling accessory for this month as well as this year.

insider-gaming.com

 

[PaintTinJr]

You're critiquing DF based on a patent filed 3.5 years ago. A patent that probably has nothing to do with PSSR considering the lack of evidence connecting the two.

So reading between the lines, they've fired the games up on PC at 840p and used DLSS at ultra said the worst parts are a match and called it? Is that the methodology?

 

[Midn1ght]

metal detecting the beaches down here in Florida

What's the best or weirdest thing you ever found?

I was addicted to magnet fishing videos for a few weeks last year, almost bought one myself. Look fun

 

[Kacho]

3. Can you please share some sales figures of Portal?

This is all we have that I know of. Stolen from Welfare on IBF. US only.

PS Portal: Between 420K and 630K LTD (2-3%)

 

[Xaeroxcore666]

Honestly, this is not for you to say to anyone, any more than its my place telling you that its worth it.

Anyway you want to look at it, the PS5pro is better hardware than the base PS5. It also supports all the peripherals that the base PS5 supports. Which unfortunately in the current market, includes the disc drive. That thing was turned into a peripheral the second the slim was announced. If you think $700 is too much for you to pay? Thats on you, that's not saying however, that the product is not worth $700, that's just saying you can't or don't want to pay that for a console.

Two different things.

As for the other stuff you said... now you are just rambling... eg, considering how well the PS portal has gone on to sell, one can say it's a blessing to Sony they haven't got people like you telling them what to do. But that should tell you something, because YOU didn't ask for something, or YOU don't see the value in something, 100% doesn't mean others won't. And chances are, those others would likely outnumber you.

The only thing i´ve asked Sony is to make more games built around my PS5 i spent 500$, because almost 4 years of launch almost of our catalogue is basically PS4 improved games, incluiding big exclusives like Horizon 2, GoW Ragnarok. TLou 2 and GT 7...which also they used them to try to sell this pro to the world. So tell me how it´s wrong to ask for more actual PS5 games instead of having to purchase a newer console? I will say that forever, and you can´t stop that.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

What's the best or weirdest thing you ever found?

I was addicted to magnet fishing videos for a few weeks last year, almost bought one myself. Look fun

My "best" finds are rings that I can return to owners.

Have recovered countless class rings that usually get returned but Jostens stopped giving me the contact info of rings and just wanted me to mail them in to them and let them do the returns and I stopped doing that

Much like many of those magnet fishing videos I found an unexploded mortar near Clearwater Beach that caused a little chaos as the police closed that section of beach while they disposed of it

 

[Zathalus]

So reading between the lines, they've fired the games up on PC at 840p and used DLSS at ultra said the worst parts are a match and called it? Is that the methodology?

The only PC comparison we have for PSSR is from Ratchet & Clank. They compared DLSS 3.7 Quality mode 4K (so 1440p rendering resolution), FSR 3.1, and the provided footage. Pixel counting the Pro footage showed it was 1440p-1800p upscaling to 4K. In the direct comparison you can clearly see PSSR/DLSS are way better vs FSR 3.1. The only issue is that PSSR has some minor (very minor) ghosting and shimmering issues vs DLSS 3.7.

Alan Wake 2 was 864p being upscaled via PSSR but footage of that was very brief and no PC comparisons were made.

In the end PC footage was only used to demonstrate how good PSSR is. Which it is, make no doubt about that.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The only thing i´ve asked Sony is to make more games built around my PS5 i spent 500$, because almost 4 years of launch almost of our catalogue is basically PS4 improved games, incluiding big exclusives like Horizon 2, GoW Ragnarok. TLou 2 and GT 7...which also they used them to try to sell this pro to the world. So tell me how it´s wrong to ask for more actual PS5 games instead of having to purchase a newer console? I will say that forever, and you can´t stop that.

Ok... what has asking for games, got to do with them making an optional upgrade to their hardware?

 

[PaintTinJr]

People will for sure vote with their wallets

Why do we think GPUs have gone sky high? Because enough people like myself will buy them

And you're likely right if enough people buy this Pro its likely Sony will stay high on their price of the PS6 especially if rumors are true and there is no other traditional console in the same launch window

I don't think PlayStation can ever do that with a launch console price and won't risk it after the way they ate $350/£350 per PS3 console in subsidy following the most successful console ever and had a huge market share.

They will always want to be selling at cost or marginally above cost at a mainstream console launch IMO, because that's the ticket to their 30% cut and market share means more to them both in terms of adoption rate and overall share in the first 50m sales , and more than hardware profit, and it also alters the trajectory for market expansion too. Momentum for a product that must succeed is the competition to get good launch pricing for a new gen IMO.

PlayStation have now (also) seen that consoles can still sell well even with inflation tweaks in the first 4 years, so even launch at a lower price for momentum doesn't stop them raising prices in subsequent years of the launch of PS6 IMO.

 

[PaintTinJr]

The only PC comparison we have for PSSR is from Ratchet & Clank. They compared DLSS 3.7 Quality mode 4K (so 1440p rendering resolution), FSR 3.1, and the provided footage. Pixel counting the Pro footage showed it was 1440p-1800p upscaling to 4K. In the direct comparison you can clearly see PSSR/DLSS are way better vs FSR 3.1. The only issue is that PSSR has some minor (very minor) ghosting and shimmering issues vs DLSS 3.7.

Alan Wake 2 was 864p being upscaled via PSSR but footage of that was very brief and no PC comparisons were made.

In the end PC footage was only used to demonstrate how good PSSR is. Which it is, make no doubt about that.

So as I said, their whole "we counted it" is BS, and if the number is correct it is because they have a source, What a surprise from DF.

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[Zathalus]

So as I said, their whole "we counted it" is BS, and if the number is correct it is because they have a source, What a surprise from DF.

Sure, whatever makes you feel better.

 

[Kerotan]

Same res and it's using FSR2 which is the worst upscaler around. If you think that upscaling looked good you're gonna cream your pants when you see DLSS on PC.

I probably have pretty low standards tbh. I still play my PS3 and think games look good