Support NeoGAF

[Mibu no ookami]

Sure

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fK4LVW

A 2070 Super build would have looked similar, just with a 1TB drive and a 3600 processor or even a Zen 1 processor.

Again, DDR4 memory
No OS
The cheapest piece of shit kb/m you could find
no gamepad
no cooling

Jesus...

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Look, we're basically on the same page that it's the developers that are the issue. I thought my original post was pretty clear on that and three sentences was enough to get the point across, but I guess not. If people start saying i'm contradicting myself or that I meant my posts in a certain way then i'm gonna reply to that. We're cool.

I wasn't dunking on PC for the sake of it. I have a PC with a 4070 myself and the fact I keep having to buy games on console to get a less compromised experience (*to me) because developers can't handle things like PSO caching or proper frame pacing is just sad.

My posts about PC can be described as a mourning father who has lost his child.

I think we've reached common ground on this for sure! Definitely see where you're coming from!

It's wild how text can make things crazier than they should be!

 

[rodrigolfp]

No keyboard/mouse
No gamepad
No operating system
Unless that case comes with built in cooling... no cooling
Interesting choice to go with DDR4 memory.
Pcie3 SSD... instead of pcie4...

Keep trying buddy

Does console comes with optional mouse and keyboard?
Windows 11 is free to install
Stock cooling is fine.
DDR4 is more than fine.
No game needs more than SATA SSD speeds...

 

[Zathalus]

Again, DDR4 memory
No OS
The cheapest piece of shit kb/m you could find
no gamepad
no cooling

Jesus...

It has cooling, or did you miss the Zen CPU comes with one? A 5600 is not going to need aftermarket cooling. DDR4 memory is fine for a budget build still.

Did you forget what we were comparing? This is how a modern budget build stacks up against the Pro vs a budget build at the end of 2020 vs the base PS5. The 2020 build would have had the exact same compromises doofus.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

But there shouldn't be bad PC ports. It shouldn't even be a conversation point. Of course it's going to be the best place to play otherwise.

 

[Bojji]

No keyboard/mouse
No gamepad
No operating system
Unless that case comes with built in cooling... no cooling
Interesting choice to go with DDR4 memory.
Pcie3 SSD... instead of pcie4...

Keep trying buddy

lol

K&M 5$
Gamepad is optional
Windows is free
Cooling on CPU is in CPU box, GPU has its own
DDR4 for Zen 3, much better CPU than what Pro have
SSD is fast enough, no difference in games

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Does console comes with optional mouse and keyboard?

You need the kb/m to operating the OS, you don't on console

Windows 11 is free to install

I guess if you're pirating it

Stock cooling is fine.

:/

DDR4 is more than fine.

sure

No game needs more than SATA SSD speeds...

It's cute that you think that'll be true when the next gen is running PCIE 6 and games struggle running on your SATA rig...

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It has cooling, or did you miss the Zen CPU comes with one? A 5600 is not going to need aftermarket cooling. DDR4 memory is fine for a budget build still.

Did you forget what we were comparing? This is how a modern budget build stacks up against the Pro vs a budget build at the end of 2020 vs the base PS5. The 2020 build would have had the exact same compromises doofus.

I've never seen a budget build with a 15 dollar keyboard and mouse. You guys cut corners because you know you HAVE to in order to get anywhere close to the ballpark and you're still 300 dollars over and you STILL have to build it yourself.

 

[rodrigolfp]

You need the kb/m to operating the OS, you don't on console



I guess if you're pirating it



:/



sure



It's cute that you think that'll be true when the next gen is running PCIE 6 and games struggle running on your SATA rig...

Read again. Gamepad is the optional on PC.

No, ignorant. MS allows you install Windows 11 for free. You just have some insignificant limitations for gaming.

Xp

sure, yes.

For next gen we can upgrade the SSD.

 

[Bojji]

You need the kb/m to operating the OS, you don't on console



I guess if you're pirating it



:/



sure



It's cute that you think that'll be true when the next gen is running PCIE 6 and games struggle running on your SATA rig...

You can't have different memory on Zen 3 buddy, Windows is free to use without key.

SSD speeds difference:

 

[Zathalus]

I've never seen a budget build with a 15 dollar keyboard and mouse. You guys cut corners because you know you HAVE to in order to get anywhere close to the ballpark and you're still 300 dollars over and you STILL have to build it yourself.

It's a 2020 budget build vs a PS5 vs a 2024 budget build vs a Pro. The 2020 budget build would have the same compromises.

Did you forget the entire premise of this conversation?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You can't have different memory on Zen 3 buddy, Windows is free to use without key.

Yeah and you can have a beautiful watermark on all your games while you play.

Who said anything about different memory?

SSD speeds difference:

It's not just about load times.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Yeah and you can have a beautiful watermark on all your games while you play.

The watermark is only on desktop, ignorant.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's a 2020 budget build vs a PS5 vs a 2024 budget build vs a Pro. The 2020 budget build would have the same compromises.

Did you forget the entire premise of this conversation?

Compromises are one thing, cutting corners to the bone is another.

Not having a gamepad isn't a compromise. How many people play EA FC on KB/M?

You want to have a disingenuous conversation because you know these elements result in increased price.

When we hit 2028, your running of a pcie3 SSD or a SATA SSD is going to show up with problems, but let's ignore that.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The watermark is only on desktop, ignorant.

It bleeds through on full screen.

 

[rodrigolfp]

It bleeds through on full screen.

Not anymore. You can force remove it.

When we hit 2028, your running of a pcie3 SSD or a SATA SSD is going to show up with problems, but let's ignore that.

In 2028 your free NVme slot can be used with a SSD.

Not having a gamepad isn't a compromise. How many people play EA FC on KB/M?

Just like is compromise playing shooters, BG3, Diablos, FFXIV, AoE, etc on controllers.

 

[Zathalus]

Compromises are one thing, cutting corners to the bone is another.

Not having a gamepad isn't a compromise. How many people play EA FC on KB/M?

You want to have a disingenuous conversation because you know these elements result in increased price.

When we hit 2028, your running of a pcie3 SSD or a SATA SSD is going to show up with problems, but let's ignore that.

I don't disagree there are compromises for the build I posted. But you don't seem to understand that the 2020 build would have needed the exact same ones to hit a $1000 price point as well.

The idea that the Pro is better in price to performance va the base PS5 compared to PC gaming is the one I'm arguing against as it is clearly nonsense.

 

[Bojji]

Yeah and you can have a beautiful watermark on all your games while you play.

Who said anything about different memory?




It's not just about load times.

You were disappointed with ddr4...

Ssd will be fine for games for a long time, even Sata ssd is enough at the moment with 500MB/s speed for 99% of games. Sony ssd hype clearly fucked up logical thinking for many...

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't disagree there are compromises for the build I posted. But you don't seem to understand that the 2020 build would have needed the exact same ones to hit a $1000 price point as well.

The idea that the Pro is better in price to performance va the base PS5 compared to PC gaming is the one I'm arguing against as it is clearly nonsense.

It seems people love to shift the narrative.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Ssd will be fine for games for a long time, even Sata ssd is enough at the moment with 500MB/s speed for 99% of games. Sony ssd hype clearly fucked up logical thinking for many...

You only think that because games are built around the streaming of hard drive tech and when that changes, PCIE3 is going to be left behind. You cut the corner on the drive saving little money, only for the objective of getting under the price goal...

 

[Zathalus]

It seems people love to shift the narrative.

That's a thread from 2021 when the 3060 had launched, and most of the builds are in a similar price bracket to what I mentioned. Want to try again?

 

[rodrigolfp]

PCIE3 is going to be left behind.

Them we will care about this and upgrade.

 

[TGO]

Makes more sense why Sony is porting their games..they literally don't see PC as Competition.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That's a thread from 2021 when the 3060 had launched, and most of the builds are in a similar price bracket to what I mentioned. Want to try again?

Where are you seeing this? The only thing that increases the price in this thread are things you are purposefully leaving out here. Like faster SSDs, 4K drives, controllers e.t.c.

Them we will care about this and upgrade.

So more money? Did the mobo you add even support PCIE4?

 

[Vick]

Makes more sense why Sony is porting their games..they literally don't see PC as Competition.

Dude..
Are you really looking forward for yet another Rodrigo post about consoles retarded dual stick aiming, higher cost of games, paid online, total lack of customization and so on?

 

[rodrigolfp]

So more money? Did the mobo you add even support PCIE4?

Will your PS6 upgrade come free?

 

[TGO]

Dude..
Are you really looking forward for yet another Rodrigo post about consoles retarded dual stick aiming, higher cost of games, paid online, total lack of customization and so on?

 

[XXL]

Makes more sense why Sony is porting their games.

Completely agree.

The PS5 Pro doesn't need to beat the highest end GPUs on PC market to be attractive, that fact it's even being compared to high end GPUs.....says everything.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Will your PS6 upgrade come free?

It won't but we're not talking about a generational upgrade. We're talking about the same system but having to update a component because it doesn't hold up because you cheaped out because you thought you could make a point in an argument, but the point doesn't carry water.

There are people still playing PS4 and PS4 Pro right now because they felt like they didn't have to upgrade. There will be a cross gen period for PS5 and PS6 as well, and I can guarantee you PCIE3 games won't hold up to that cross gen period at least not for very long. PS6 is going to be running PCIE6 and again not for just load times but for streaming of assets.

Even at the end of this generation when games are build around the SSD more, you're going to see problems. It'll be interesting to see the min specs for the hard drive on Spider-Man 2 on PC.

 

[rodrigolfp]

It won't but we're not talking about a generational upgrade. We're talking about the same system but having to update a component because it doesn't hold up because you cheaped out because you thought you could make a point in an argument, but the point doesn't carry water.

There are people still playing PS4 and PS4 Pro right now because they felt like they didn't have to upgrade. There will be a cross gen period for PS5 and PS6 as well, and I can guarantee you PCIE3 games won't hold up to that cross gen period at least not for very long. PS6 is going to be running PCIE6 and again not for just load times but for streaming of assets.

Even at the end of this generation when games are build around the SSD more, you're going to see problems. It'll be interesting to see the min specs for the hard drive on Spider-Man 2 on PC.

Why should we care about PS6? You asked about a $1000 PC now vs PS5 Pro. We will see how it will be when PS6 comes.

Dude..
Are you really looking forward for yet another Rodrigo post about consoles retarded dual stick aiming, higher cost of games, paid online, total lack of customization and so on?

Your FOMO is interesting.

 

[Bojji]

You only think that because games are built around the streaming of hard drive tech and when that changes, PCIE3 is going to be left behind. You cut the corner on the drive saving little money, only for the objective of getting under the price goal...

When that will happen, 2030? 2035? On PS6 or PS6 Pro? So far no game is streaming data on the fly on PS5 from SSD (cerny vision) to GPU and we are 4 years after console was released.

Developers are slow with things like that, DX12 started to become common 5 years after release, DX storage is in few games. Mesh shaders in 2 or 3? Since 2018...

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Why should we care about PS6? You asked about a $1000 PC now vs PS5 Pro. We will see how it will be when PS6 comes.

Yeah, and the PS5 Pro is going to outlive your PC build because of the corners you cut.

That's value not represented in your build. That's why the PS6 matters.

 

[brenobnfm]

People still trying to push garbage ass PCs with fucking DDR4 memory as a more appealing option compared to a state of the art console?

Guys, the PS5 Pro is for enthusiasts, these people already have high end PCs, if you have to choose between a $699 console or PC, this console isn't for you.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

When that will happen, 2030? 2035? On PS6 or PS6 Pro? So far no game is streaming data on the fly on PS5 from SSD (cerny vision) to GPU and we are 4 years after console was released.

Developers are slow with things like that, DX12 started to become common 5 years after release, DX storage is in few games. Mesh shaders in 2 or 3? Since 2018...

We've had an unprecedented cross gen period, largely due to the pandemic and the uptick of new consoles and the impact on supply chains.

That doesn't mean games aren't streaming data on the fly on the PS5 SSD. I think Spider-Man 2 is going to be an interesting test case on PC. I think Demon's Souls PC would be too.

But more importantly the further we get from PS4 the more prevalent this might be.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Yeah, and the PS5 Pro is going to outlive your PC build because of the corners you cut.

That's value not represented in your build. That's why the PS6 matters.

PS5 Pro is already coming with potato zen 2 CPU outlived. That build has a 5600 CPU. SATA SSD is already overkill for any game until the end of the gen.

 

[Bojji]

People still trying to push garbage ass PCs with fucking DDR4 memory as a more appealing option compared to a state of the art console?

Guys, the PS5 Pro is for enthusiasts, these people already have high end PCs, if you have to choose between a $699 console or PC, this console isn't for you.

This DDR4 build has much better CPU power than Pro.

We've had an unprecedented cross gen period, largely due to the pandemic and the uptick of new consoles and the impact on supply chains.

That doesn't mean games aren't streaming data on the fly on the PS5 SSD. I think Spider-Man 2 is going to be an interesting test case on PC. I think Demon's Souls PC would be too.

But more importantly the further we get from PS4 the more prevalent this might be.

Cross gen is here to stay for next gen as well. Only few games actually use PS5 streaming hardware for loading, but streaming directly to the GPU on the fly? No one is doing that as far as I'm aware, SSD is also MANY times slower than GDDR/DDR so I don't know how this could work.

Even PS5 games run on SSD slower than build in one, and guess what. They run the same:

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This DDR4 build has much better CPU power than Pro.



Cross gen is here to stay for next gen as well. Only few games actually use PS5 streaming hardware for loading, but streaming directly to the GPU on the fly? No one is doing that as far as I'm aware, SSD is also MANY times slower than GDDR/DDR so I don't know how this could work.

Even PS5 games run on SSD slower than build in one, and guess what. They run the same:

I know people think Rift Apart is the poster child for this, but in gameplay? I'd rather see Demon's Souls or Spider-Man 2.

 

[brenobnfm]

This DDR4 build has much better CPU power than Pro.

Doesn't matter, it's a dead standard on a PC that will plummet in value, the Pro you can just sell at a small loss when PS6 releases. In 4 years you have an outdated piece of shit if you spent this on this PC, while the Pro will continue to be supported or you can sell/trade in for a PS6.

Now that i pretended we can compare PC parts with console like for like, let's have the real talk: much better PCs still can't escape the stutter shitfest that is PC gaming due to shader compilation, the CPU itself was never the problem, there's a couple of relevant games at best with some sort of CPU bottleneck, this PC has no chance lol

 

[rodrigolfp]

Doesn't matter, it's a dead standard on a PC that will plummet in value, the Pro you can just sell at a small loss when PS6 releases. In 4 years you have an outdated piece of shit if you spent this on this PC, while the Pro will continue to be supported or you can sell/trade in for a PS6.

Now that i pretended we can compare PC parts with console like for like, let's have the real talk: much better PCs still can't escape the stutter shitfest that is PC gaming due to shader compilation, the CPU itself was never the problem, there's a couple of relevant games at best with some sort of CPU bottleneck, this PC has no chance lol

The Pro is not even out and has dead standard zen 2 and dead standard GDDR6 too.

You can sell/trade your old PC parts for new ones too.

 

[brenobnfm]

The Pro is not even out and has dead standard zen 2 and dead standard GDDR6 too.

You can sell/trade your old PC parts for new ones too.

Consoles are a closed platform, individual pieces are not really relevant as they are on PC. So you're going to sell your DDR4 to buy DDR5 without changing the mobo and CPU? Good luck.

Someone between a Pro or PC should build a good ass PC first without having to compromise on dead tech like DDR4 and AM4, then later you think about a luxury item like a PS5 Pro if it makes sense to you.

 

[rodrigolfp]

So you're going to sell your DDR4 to buy DDR5 without changing the mobo and CPU? Good luck.

I will sell my DDR4, mobo and CPU, genious.

Consoles being a closed platform make them suck even more because they still have to swallow stuff like zen 2 (PS5 Pro) for compatibility sake, can't change just a part that possibly get a problem. And guess what will happen when internal SSD dies with so many writes? Can't change it.

 

[brenobnfm]

I will sell my DDR4, mobo and CPU, genious.

In other words, you're building a new PC

PC gaming sounds amazing for people on a budget.

 

[Bojji]

In other words, you're building a new PC

PC gaming sounds amazing for people on a budget.

You are selling parts and getting new ones adding like 50% more money or so.

You sell console and buy new one adding 50% money or so?

What are you talking about?

I know people think Rift Apart is the poster child for this, but in gameplay? I'd rather see Demon's Souls or Spider-Man 2.

DeS is quite simple when it comes to loading. SM2 will indeed be interesting on PC.

 

[rodrigolfp]

In other words, you're building a new PC

PC gaming sounds amazing for people on a budget.

No because VGA, PSU, case, SSD, Windows, mouse+kb, controller, wheel, VR headset can all still be the same, genious.

 

[brenobnfm]

You are selling parts and getting new ones adding like 50% more money or so.

You sell console and buy new one adding 50% money or so?

What are you talking about?

PS5 release price was $499, a used one right now is worth around 350~400, 50% my ass lmao

Your 2020 $499 PC is electronic waste.

No because VGA, PSU, case, SSD, Windows, mouse+kb, controller, wheel, VR headset can all still be the same, genious.

My guy really listed even the damn OS (that you guys said was free to begin with), the desperation is incredible

 

[rodrigolfp]

PS5 release price was $499, a used one right now is worth around 350~400, 50% my ass lmao

Your 2020 $499 PC is electronic waste.

Less waste than used console with dying SSD that can't be swapped.

desperation

So you don't even know what that word means.

 

[Gaiff]

Hey, what are you guys talking about?

Oh, another PC build equivalent to a Pro.

 

[brenobnfm]

Less waste than used console with dying SSD that can't be swapped.

lmao what

You're a waste of my time, go be happy with your walmart PC

 

[rodrigolfp]

lmao what

You're a waste of my time, go be happy with your walmart PC

I don't need to go. Posting from it. Thing that PS5 Pro console can't even do.

 

[Bojji]

PS5 release price was $499, a used one right now is worth around 350~400, 50% my ass lmao

Your 2020 $499 PC is electronic waste.

You have 0 idea about used market for PC parts. This discussion doesn't make sense.