jonnyp
Member
I guess it's an artistic decision because I think Second Son looks better than both these Ghost games, which I think just look flat outside of cutscenes.
Ghost of Yoti New Gameplay Trailer
- Thread starter Msamy
- Start date
I guess it's an artistic decision because I think Second Son looks better than both these Ghost games, which I think just look flat outside of cutscenes.
Gonzito
Gold Member
Agreed. Second son still looks amazing to this day
DavidGzz
Member
So they added weapons to counter instead of stances as far as I know. Idk if the stances are in too. I prefer the weapons as the katana got old. Variety in weapons is much preferred for me.
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
Sony dropping the ball once again this gen… this gen they really forget what made Sony what it is today..
I love Sony exclusives and it pains me saying this but this game really feels a DLC.. really shocking to me that SP just used last gen tech to power this game and as far I can see the only upgrade is far view detail that increased a bit.. the light is atrocious and textures are very low quality.. animations don't seem much better also.. what a disappointment…
I love Sony exclusives and it pains me saying this but this game really feels a DLC.. really shocking to me that SP just used last gen tech to power this game and as far I can see the only upgrade is far view detail that increased a bit.. the light is atrocious and textures are very low quality.. animations don't seem much better also.. what a disappointment…
Fess
Member
Horizon is Hermen's baby, the budget is probably infinite…
Either way, as others have said, in hindsight many were far too harsh on Forbidden West. It still looks amazing. Another one I need to go back and finish!
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Doesn't look good, and doesn't look bad. I'll pass.
Msamy
Member
I just shared new game announced by tencent which looks already gen ahead of all sony bullshits this gen lol,
Yeah, who would have thought that, barring DS2 which shares the same engine, HFW would remain the most impressive Sony game on PS5 5 years after its launch
Fess
Member
lol that would be a loaded topic today
I love ninjas and samurais so I have zero problem with the theme. It just doesn't look all that exciting to play here. Enemies aren't reacting to what's happening nearby and there is a lack of challenge and too much focus on finisher moves.
I like the grappling hook though!
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Banned
Having seen more and newer gameplay, i gotta say, environment is extremely empty, level design is generic and with zero artistic touch. Gameplay looks good, but they really ain't trying when it comes to the environment. Neon lights, containers and wet asphalt is all there is. Feels like we're in the 7th gen where wet surfaces and neon lights were the hot shit in town.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
It didn't, but you are incidentally touching on something that could be heavily affecting GoY's perception with quite a few.
When GoT came out, there hadn't been a lot of samurai-themed AAA games in a good while leading up to its release, especially open-world ones. In that sense, GoT was in a space of its own so by default got a lot of props because there was little else to compare it to. I think the closest was Nioh? But other than that, slim pickings.
Ghost of Yotei is releasing after a packed period of games like Wuchang, Black Myth Wukong, AssCreed Shadows, Ninja Gaiden 2 Black remake, and upcoming games like Ninja Gaiden 4 and Ryu Ga Gotoku's upcoming samurai game. Not to mention, a continued glut of open-world games between 2020 and today. Now, a lot of those games aren't samurai-themed, and stuff like Ninja Gaiden are more ninja than samurai, but to most people, ninja and samurai are interchangeable in the realm of video games (even if some of us would call them wrong for that). Suddenly, GoY has many points of comparison that GoT didn't have back in 2020.
The open-world and samurai/ninja action-adventure AAA space has evolved a good deal between 2020 and 2025, and in ways both visually and with game mechanics/AI, it's kind of easy to see how GoY may not be comparing so favorably. Visually, while the art is beautiful, on the technical side it's been shown up by AssCreed Shadows, and easily so. Even among SIE's own 1P titles, HFW and Burning Shores decimate GoY from a technical POV visually even from a glance. Yes, SP haven't been pushing visuals the way GG traditionally have, but I think the combination of GG's ascendance among SIE studios (rightly or wrongly) combined with other vaguely similar games stepping up visual presentation for a AAA samurai game the past year or so, hurts GoY in comparison. And it's GOING to be compared because that's simply something people do, for everything in life.
That said, I think some of the people complaining about the game not seeming a big enough leaps because "gwapficcs not purtty enough" are doing themselves any favors. State-of-the-art graphics doesn't suddenly mean a game's not iterative. If GTA6 ends up having all of the exact same game mechanics, physics, controls & AI of GTA5 but simply looks much prettier, then that would be a "very safe, iterative" sequel worth all the same complaints GoY is getting, and actually even more, considering it's been in development for way longer. IMO, the real reason GoY looks so iterative is because of the minimal evolution in game mechanics or, seemingly, enemy AI. The latter in particular, in the latest trailer just looked outright awful. Enemies who seemingly should've been very aware of what was happening around them, just carrying on like a Genesis or SNES game on preset routines. It was very jarring to see. I know the latest trailer was a "weapons showcase", but they could've also made the enemy AI seem like it was actually, y'know, there. Especially since the AI wasn't impressive in the SoP they had for the game either, so now that's 2-for-2 where enemy AI looks barely present and not as aware as it should.
Some of you are hyping up having different weapons, but IMO doesn't that just make GoY even more similar to most other open-world games already out, and even quite a few of the samurai/ninja-themed ones? Why did the stance system have to be removed in order to make way for using different weapons? Why not combine the two? That would've added even more depth and kept the novelty of the first game as well. Aspects of the open-world progression are somewhat vague, like the memories system. How much agency does the player have with that mechanic? Is it something they can creatively use throughout exploration and during battle/boss encounters for strategies, and to solve puzzles? Or is it just basically a QTE for what amounts to a real-time cutscene? That hasn't been clarified at all yet and the game's only two months out from launch.
Like I said originally after the SoP, the game just has a very "iterative" look and feel to it. That wouldn't be bad in isolation and if the game released in 2023 or 2024. But amid many other things regarding SIE's 1P output since late 2022, various business strategy choices of questionable judgement (IMO), and other games that have released over the period, then yes I think GoY is deserving of some deep scrutiny. Keep in mind, unlike some other people I'm not even necessarily blaming Sucker Punch here, because I've been questioning SIE upper leadership for months at that point if not slightly longer, and ultimately SP or any other 1P studio can only do what they're allowed to do, what they've been allotted funds to do. Do they really have a GoW 2018-era Yoshida there to push the studios, even if that means scrapping progress and starting over? I don't know, and I don't think so. This is the same SIE that stuck Bluepoint on GAAS duties of all things!! So I do think SIE deserve a good deal of whatever criticism may befall GoY, rather than just lumping it all on SP themselves.
All in all I think GoY is going to do "fine". It'll review well enough (I guess anywhere between 85-89 MC) and have a pretty strong launch all things considered. But I think it'll have a shorter tail than GoT, and probably won't reach the pre-PC numbers GoT hit, with just PS5 alone. So I'm expecting there's a good chance it'll be on Steam by April-May of next year, especially if GTA6 actually does hit its release date in that timeframe (it'd give SIE cover to slip out the PC port and distract PS5 diehards with GTA6 marketing hype & special promos). Tho if GTA6 does in fact miss that window, they'll probably have Saros fill that slot and use that to distract from a GoY PC port at that time.
And of course that all depends on it not having HFW launch-level bugs or just coming under expectations of reviewers. I would say also what proportion of "totally not Xbox-biased" websites and reviewers get review copies to try console-warring and weigh down the aggregate average. But at this point, I think most of those remaining are doing it less to console war and more to platform/brand-war. Same mentality, different excuse kind of shit.
Yeah I saw that comment. Don't know their post history (remember it's ResetERA; that's a safe haven for Xbox stans), but that comment was a pretty good one, have to admit.
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64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
kind of the issue with stealth in many games, in order for it to be effective enough that you consider using it, the enemies have to have a cartoonish lack of self awareness and basically no object permanence.
Hence why Hitman is in my opinion the best stealth as it advises blending in rather than not being seen (or heard), something much more realistic
PatientGamer
Member
I like the chained attacks and the combat looks smooth/stylish. That said, it does look a bit 'mid'. Just doesn't look like a game that that's what I'd expect in 2025. Graphically, it seems well behind. But if it plays well and story is excellent, then I'll jump in on it.
I never played the OG GoT, but I will definitely play it first before getting into GoY.
I never played the OG GoT, but I will definitely play it first before getting into GoY.
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
What an odd way to justify "good graphics". If you lack imagination and creativity then that's your problem. Put down the controller and pick up the drawing tablet. Get back the soul that you lost.
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balls of snow
Member
Dont even need Rt really. Horizon FW and Ds2 are about as par as any ray tracing game. Its the engine they use for Ghost is showing its age.
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BbMajor7th
Member
A very odd take. Are you implying that basically anyone can be an artist f they just pick up an iPad and a copy of Pro-create? Because I've met a whole lot of people like that and they don't have a creative bone in their bodies. The overwhelming majority of people are just not creatively-minded and it's why creativity and ingenuity is so highly regarded and sought after.
Fess
Member
I don't want to agree on that "overwhelming majority" part but I've met people who draw or make music who're mostly blank and only really copy other artists. Can still be insanely skilled at that though!
Sony cutting the budget to studios to make up for the loses they got from concord and other cancelled games where Sony placed all there money on games no one wanted, Sony really has gone down hill to what they where , enjoyed ps1-ps4 and have to admit ps5 has been the worst out of all Sonys PlayStation generations
viveks86
Member
I agree with this. But that's also why creativity and ingenuity should be treated with some respect. Something we often forget when we demand entertainment and inspiration.
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
Maybe, maybe not. I'm of the opinion creativity like your brain is something that you train and flex over time. The more you draw/compose/write, the more ideas you come up with. Interacting with more creatively minded people can rub off on you in positive ways too.
The point is, artists don't have a "responsibility" to inspire the uninspired by making super duper hyper realistic 4k graphics. If you want a game to look good, just say that. Don't disguise it behind some weird idea of "it's their responsiblity to inspire us" when inspiration is meant for people who want to create. SlimySnake doesn't create. If he ever had a need to "be inspired", or for many of the other people here, he'd be in an art group and not on a gaming forum complaining about screen space reflections.
viveks86
Member
Rub off, yes. To pursue as a new hobby if it piques your interest, sure. To the extent that it inspires? Not a chance. Certainly not if you are past 30 as most of us old farts are. People discovering a creative ability that late in their life are extremely rare and often already had it in them, but they just never discovered it due to other inhibiting factors. Creative people, especially the noteworthy ones, are just wired differently. If that wiring is through conscious methods (via training, mentorship, lifestyle etc.), then it's happening much earlier in life when there is much more neuroplasticity.
Bottom line, don't expect anything more than than this from SlimySnake if you make him draw
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
Way too many creatively minded people out there for it to come down to just "wiring." Humans are so artistic and expressive we came up with around a dozen different ways to tell stories and express art. Music, Television shows, Movies, Books, poems, musicals, videogames, dance, Drawing, sculpting, painting, etc. All of which have their own collections of genres, subgenres, and tropes.
Maybe I can accept the age excuse. But I still think it's primarily a skill issue if you are unable to make interesting or compelling art.
He could do a lot better if he took some time off GAF and stopped whining over video game graphics. Poor fellow honestly, he's literally the stereotype Nintendo fanboys think of when they think of PS/Xbox/PC gamers. New game comes out and he can only think of how much it visually underwhelms or whatever the fuck, all the while ignoring stuff that actually deserves recognition due to it being genuinely fun
viveks86
Member
When I say wiring, I just mean nature (as opposed to nurture). I'm not saying they are statistical anomalies at all for them to be few in number. Like you said, there are plenty of them. But some people are creative and others are not. And that wiring can go down to individual means of creative expression. A musician may never be a painter, even if they are trained and encouraged from childhood to do both. Or they might. That too, comes down to wiring. The factors cannot be isolated to one thing, like DNA, but many biological things coming together. How your neurons ultimately fire when presented with an opportunity to create, is the first step. The skill to actually express is something that can be learned, but nurture only facilitates or inhibits nature. If it isn't in your nature to begin with, it's an extremely steep hill to climb, which can make unsuitable creative pursuits (or any pursuit for that matter) a totally fruitless exercise. If I am a pyschopath by nature, I can only be trained to behave and operate within the confines of rules and laws. I can't be trained to start feeling things. Capacity for empathy is like creativity. You can have it to varying degrees or not have it at all, but training won't instill something that isn't there to begin with. If I don't have the split-second presence of mind, I should never learn to fly a plane or race a car. Training can help, but it's a staggeringly uphill and potentially dangerous proposition.
Some are naturally good at sports, some need to work really hard to be any good and others simply can't no matter what you feed them and train them from childhood. It's the same for creativity, scientific reasoning, problem solving or any talent that is regarded highly.
I wouldn't be so harsh on Slimy. All types of discourse are important, as long as they are done respectfully and not misrepresenting facts. Is this particular footage graphically impressive? Even I would argue it isn't and I'm probably in the top 10% of people excited for this game and I actively defend it when I think it's needed. So it's well within reason for someone focused on graphical advancements to call it out. Not to mention that Slimy actually plays way more games than a lot of us do. I see him active on several OTs, actively discussing aspects of games that aren't about graphics.
I would draw the line at insulting devs though as it's not my place to dump on someone's hard work. I'm not going to pretend they were all twiddling their thumbs for the last 4+ years and it would be ignorant and presumptuous for anyone to do so until the game is out at the very least, just because they didn't include the best in class tech. I wouldn't appreciate it if someone did that to my work that I spent my blood and sweat on. We can agree that getting inspiration is not some human right that we can demand from others. But the criticism itself has its place here, as the specific material warrants it.
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ozz ex machina
Member
I know I must sound like the out of touch old people I used to hate. But jesus fucking christ is it just me or doesn't this game look like DLC to a game that came out 5 years ago?
Do you remember when sequels actually improved and changed things? Even graphically this looks so similar.
Do you remember when sequels actually improved and changed things? Even graphically this looks so similar.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Just to add my 2 cents to the conversation, since I can relate. In a MBA class we were told to sketch a logo for a messenger company and everyone but me drew the same ideas (arrows, clouds). My classmates came from Finance and Engineering backgrounds, while I'm the creative type. If you are into excel sheets, chances are that you are not imaginative. Your brain is wired differently.
I was always encouraged to write fiction but didnt start till my late 30s, after bailing out of the corporate rat race. Though I regret taking the step this late, it came out naturally, as if it had always been there, waiting. So, creativity can be trained like any other skill, but you need to have that spark that ignites the fire.
It does. Too much.
I was always encouraged to write fiction but didnt start till my late 30s, after bailing out of the corporate rat race. Though I regret taking the step this late, it came out naturally, as if it had always been there, waiting. So, creativity can be trained like any other skill, but you need to have that spark that ignites the fire.
It does. Too much.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
5 years ago on a much less powerful console. There's nothing "next gen" about Ghost of Yotei. I platinumed the original, absolutely loved it the atmosphere and the world, but the more I see of it's successor, the more disenchanted I become. It's basically the same game with very few visual changes and the gameplay looks boring as hell instead of fun and exciting.
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
Yeah no I know you said it's Nature when you said wiring. I've heard the phrase used in a similar manner before
My point listing off all those forms of expression, is that there are way too many forms of artistic expression and humans have done way too much for there to be a huge subset of people who just "don't have it in them". If it's not drawing it's composition. If it's not composition its sculpting. If it's not sculpting it's animation. If it's not animation it's acting. etc. There's something everyone's good at
The collective experience everyone can relate to of having all the imagination, ambition and creativity during childhood only to lose it all living life as an adult is proof that it is not exclusive to some certain subsect of people. It's something that's beaten out of you by modern life, and some people just refuse to let that happen.
The fact art is such a huge subset of human culture even to the fucking caveman days suggests that it is innate in our nature to CREATE. Otherwise there would not be enough people out there who are willing to gather in dozens to hundreds to work on a single video game.
The only thing stopping you from making something beautiful is you, not some predetermined genetic code or whatever. If your improvement in something is (consistently) slow,
The crossed reasoning is dumb upon rereading. I don't think there's a definitive way to properly quantize how improvement can vary. Obviously not all people who aren't good at something dislike it, and not all people who are extremely skilled at something are over the moon about it (although the vast majority tend to be).
Improvement just comes and goes. It isn't automatic, it isn't linear, and it won't always go at the pace you want it to. However, I still think that if you stick to something you are passionate in, it will eventually come. You're naturally going to improve at something you keep engaging in. Hence why the advice "just keep drawing" is so prevalent in the art community.
I don't care about whether Ghost of Yotei looks good or not. Obviously it looks pretty fucking mediocre for a sequel that's been in the works for half a decade or so.
I don't hate Slimysnake in particular. The medium's called VIDEO games, obviously people will care about that first word. He has some interesting insights on visuals when he seeks to be more constructive rather than destructive. The problem is that too many people like him are upset because they view their next gen console purchase as some investment that should automatically grant them graphics so good white tears stream down their leg. People demand for better and better visuals while budgets keep climbing and layoffs keep happening. Eventually AI will fuck everything up and turn AAA into even more of a soulless sludge than it already is. And that particular comment of "expecting inspiration from devs"- when we all know that people like him aren't exactly fiending for "inspiration" and just want more pretty pictures- struck a nerve, especially to someone like me who thinks that gaming discussion would be a lot more informed if everyone seeked to ACTUALLY create their own project even if it might not specifically be a video game. It would help people better empathize with the devs and creatives currently producing all the stuff in this industry.
His (and many others) obsession with graphics drives people to become upset when the washed up, C-suite driven, focus tested to fuck publishers people still idolize (like EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Square Enix, so on so forth) don't manage to live up to their expectations. And then they start getting jaded and upset with gaming because they're too focused on what big studios make and not what everyone makes.
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Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
MatrixReloaded101
Member
Waiting for the PC release ... so disappointed because I thought this game would at least make use of the PS5 pro ... what a waste of money that has been.
viveks86
Member
That's a very interesting take. I'm going to have to noodle on that. To create, yes. But creativity and creating aren't synonymous right? Art is creating purely for the sake of expressing thought. Building a fire, cooking a meal or making a wheel is creating too. But is that art? It's innate for everyone to create, but I don't know if it is innate for everyone to be creative in the current sense of the word. Surely there were more cavemen hunting and gathering than drawing on walls or making decorative pottery? I need to learn more on that.
Are they all artists? May be 40-50%? The remainder are engineers, managers etc and would usually not call themselves creative in the way the word is understood. Again, I'm not trying to say that creatives are a rare minority. Just not everyone.
And why do you think I'm not that interested? All wiring does is establish preferences at a basic level and let everything else build on that. Otherwise you are saying all art is born out of nurture and not nature. What prevented me from becoming Picasso is not being born in the same household and living the same life?
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Dang shocked so many people have played the game already. I wish I could find out how yall did that already.....
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Look at what they've shown so far ....
Realize they're putting no priority on a Pro version ...
See how basic the Pro enhancement was for a huge exclusive like Death Stranding 2...
Bet that Yotei will also get a basic upgrade when it releasee on Oct 2...
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
This surely will put the nail in the coffin
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Why isn't there a big controversey over this game on social media? The level of badness in terms of graphical evolution in this is unprecedented for a Sony game ...Ubisoft AI? Boring animation that already repeats itself in a 90 second clip? Flat lighting?
You're supposed to improve with a sequel... Dafuk is happening at Sony HQ.
Are Youtubers and journalists just these gigantic Sony shills or does it reflect that gamers truly dont care about graohics any more?
Even Halo Infinite caused an uproar resulting in a year long delay. I wish this would be delayed a year.
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
I would argue the wiring is nurture more than nature.
Some people will have different preferences than others for sure. But a lot of your life preferences simply come down to first exposure. You'll naturally feel a certain way towards something that you see for the first time, or something that makes a great enough impression on you from an early age.
Video gaming would not have been such a hobby for me had I not been around to see the visual splendor of seeing games like Sonic Generations running on that 360 back in 2011.
Likewise, some 5 year old enamoured by monster trucks isn't going to be all gung ho about being a movie director when he just saw some epic 4x4 with humungous tires rip across a stadium a year ago.
do you think this genuinely looks as bad as Halo Infinite's reveal
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I 100% think this is just as bad as Halo Infinites reveal. You have to consider this is 5.5 years into the cycle of this gen and this game isn't cross gen like Infinite was. The PS5 Pro also exists now. For a game with these visuals not to at least have RTGI running on the Pro for the people who paid $800 for Sony's most powerful console ever is a shameful and disrespectful way to treat fans. Rtgi is the only thing that could save this game.
I truly believe this is even worse than Infinite for these reasons. With Infinite they were rushing it for release and they are 343i, a disaster of a studio, under MS's incompetent management. What Yotei represents is much worse. This is Sony definitively saying they don't care about graphics anymore, they dont care about delivering a next gen PS5-only game from a game that is re-using almost eveey asset from the original, and they certainly don't care about making ps5 pro owners feel like they haven't been duped into buying the most expensive modern console.
semiconscious
Member
well, out of tsushima, ronin, & shadows, you'd sorta hope at least one was good, eh? &, afa 'craze', with yotei around the corner, i'd say 3 in a little over a year & a half certainly counts...Craze?
We've had one good game..
MatrixReloaded101
Member
The game is going to be good, it's a Sony first party game plus sucker punch did a great job with the first game.
My concern with the game is that it clearly isn't pushing the PS5 hardware and that's pretty obvious from all the videos they have showed so far so I doubt it will do much for the PS5 Pro.
It looks like a PS4 game IMO and that's what's disappointing to me.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Ha Nioh 3 go brr
Danjin44
I mean after the likes of games like Sekiro, Nioh 2, ME: Shadow of War I'm rather hard pressed to find games of similar quality in engaging battle systems.Ghost of Yotei much like it's predecessor is very much that AC style of game as opposed to how Sekiro is a more engaging Tenchu kind of game.
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Radical_3d
Member
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
And that my core issue with GoT. I'm sure there are people who like AC and it's gameplay loop but I'm not one of them, I avoid AC exactly because I don't like its entire gameplay style……which is why I was really disappointed that Sucker Punch went on that route after InFAMOUS series (which I liked).
Barely any game makes use of PS5 Pro past the launch period.
And it is only gonna get worse
viveks86
Member
Not saying nurture has no value. It certainly does. I don't think I would have gotten into computer sciences if not for exposure to video games first. That's nurture.
But would I have become an artist if I were exposed to beautiful art and other artists? No. Because my family is already full of amateur artists. My brother, sister and mother were skilled painters even in my formative years. My mother was a skilled and trained singer. I used to be in awe of them. I was exposed to all of that even before video games. I tried the arts (I still do) endlessly, with and without teachers, and just can't pull any of it off. I just don't have it in me. The sooner I stop trying, the better it is for my psyche. I have appreciation for it (I even married an artist) but I have neither the skill nor the ingenuity. Problem solving though? I've made a lucrative career out of that and I love it. It's creative, but it's not art.
So you are actually arguing that i could have become Picasso if i were born in his household and lived his life. I think nurture plays a significant role, but it's overrated. It's the reason parents have become obsessed with helicoptering their children, overloading them with endless extracurricular activities in the hope that something sticks from exposure and raising them in hyper protective, regimented bubbles. I believe children will become who they already are within. And I don't mean that metaphysically. But biologically. A significant part (30% or more) of what makes them tick is determined even before nurture has the chance to play a role. All we can do is make the best possible environment for them to thrive, embrace who they are, provide the right guidance and reinforcement and get out of the way. Not try to shape every aspect of them.
This has gone way off topic and we probably won't agree. All I wanted to say was, Slimy ain't so bad, but I enjoyed the detour!
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