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[Geometric-Crusher]

Yes, Sega on PS360 was a bit underrated.
For instance, Valkyria Chronicles (S-RPG) aged better than Skies of Arcadia (RPG) for two reasons.
The art style was more singular (Canvas Engine), the combat system more interesting and innovative.
Both are classic from the king Shuntaro Tanaka, but it's clear that he was more skilled when directing Valkyria...

I agree, Valkyria Chronicle is very good and is also a commercial success while Skies of Arcadia is cult, but fortunately Sega is bringing Skies of Arcadia back, Square recognized the importance of Expedition 33 and will bring back turn-based combat in the next Final Fantasy, I'm divided, I think FF7 Remake is the path that Skies of Arcadia should follow, imagine the faces of JRPG fans when Skies of Arcadia is shown to the public at some event, maybe a Sega Meeting or Sega fes.

As for the usual old and modern Sonic comparison, it's quite abstract, don't you think?

Ok, Sonic 3K is the pinnacle of the 2D serie but as pointed out previously, the spin offs were often a joke:

Sonic Spinball, Sonic Labyrinth, Sonic R...

What about the Saturn Era?
Sonic R, a cancelled game and genesis remaster???


I'm pretty sure that the combo Shadow gen/Sonic Racing Crossworlds (classic game + spin off) will be more balanced than Sonic games on Saturn and Dreamcast (dragged down by messy spin offs)

Genesis Sonic will remain kings unless Sonic Frontiers 2 appears to be a master piece (spoiler: Unlikely...I don't trust Kishimoto and think the Shadow Gen directors will do a better job after Frontiers 2)

Sonic is very important. Before Sonic, Sega was known only as a high-tech arcade company. But they lacked a game that was truly a killer app, so in 1991 they created Sonic. It was a huge success, but they exploited the franchise predatorily.

Sega depended on Sonic, and it was thanks to Sonic, paradoxical as it may seem, that they got the money to create the Yakuza/Lad franchise.
Today, Sega has other franchises capable of financing the company's adventures in case any mistake is made with Sonic.

Fun fact: The Sonic team in the PS360 era had about 100 employees; Sonic Team 2023 has over 400 employees! It's as big as Insomniac Games.
You know, Insomniac Games' output is quite expressive, they can work with three AAA games simultaneously.

 

[Liopleurodon]

The one which is still around.

 

[DeVeAn]

Look more carefully (and the new era didn't really begin yet...)

Samba party Central by Shun Nakamura (OG creator)
Monkey Ball Banana Mania (old arcade staff worked on it)
Sonic Crossworlds (Sega Rally/Initial D team are the core mechanics dev...with 80's Galaxy Force 2 references)
Jet Set Radio reboot (OG creators are making it)
Crazy Taxi Reboot (OG creators as well)
Virtua Fighter 6 is made by Division 1, full of RGG and AM2 staff.


You're talking about Nagoshi's Sega, man (not enough good old Sega Spirit, i agree) but Utsumi's Sega is full of classic revivals and returning talents. (ex Sega staff are praising his care for game developpers and their works).

Shuji Utsumi will revive Sega.
End of thread

You are right I know there were spread around. Crosswords should be a banger based on the development team.

 

[Radical_3d]

Old sega had like, a couple of good years. From 1991 Virtua Fighter to 1995 Sega Rally. Something like that. Maybe more maybe less. Panzer Dragoon and all that stuff from the golden era. Everything else:

Current sega has all things Atlus and Valkyria Chronicles. 10/10. "Están pa' sacar consola".

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

82 votes

16 recognized the superiority of modern Sega, the rest only see old Sega as superior because they made hardware . That's the truth.

 

[Neff]

Old Sega had two strengths; Sonic and hardware development.

Today OP learned about arcades

 

[ecosse_011172]

tfortunately Sega is bringing Skies of Arcadia back,

 

[Fat Frog]

Sega trademarked Skies of Arcadia lately.

Could be a remaster, NSO crap emulation or nothing.
25th anniversary is coming soon though.

 

[Arsic]

Phantasy star online on Dreamcast and GameCube and skies of Arcadia > anything new Sega has done.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

I've been interested in Valkyrie Chronicles for years but have never played one. Am I fine to just start with 4? I think that's the most recent mainline title.

 

[ljubomir]

There is current Sega?

 

[Sooner]

If we are counting Yakuza and Persona as Sega games, then today. I've never been a huge fan of most traditional Sega franchises.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Sega trademarked Skies of Arcadia lately.

Could be a remaster, NSO crap emulation or nothing.
25th anniversary is coming soon though.

Full glorious remake please, straight in my veins.

 

[Fat Frog]

Full glorious remake please, straight in my veins.

Yeah, remake. The game didn't age that well

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

There is current Sega?

being very judicious, no.

 

[Arsic]

I've been interested in Valkyrie Chronicles for years but have never played one. Am I fine to just start with 4? I think that's the most recent mainline title.

Play the first one remaster/remake whatever they did.

Gameplay and story etc haven't aged.

 

[Alan Wake]

Sega has improved the past few years compared to the mess they were after Dreamcast was discontinued. But the old Sega was a beast. I miss them. Almost every day.

 

[cireza]

golden axe 1,2,3
shinobi 1,2,3
streets of rage 1,2,3
vf 1, remix, 2, kids, 3
Sonic 1, 2, 3, 3d blast
phantasy star 1,2,3, 4

please please

Resorting to bad faith bro ? Please please. You can do better than this, respect yourself.

Back then we would get Panzer Dragoon, Phantasy Star, Shining Force, Dragon Force, Nights, Burning Rangers, Sonic, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Ristar, Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter, Shinobi, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi, Phantasy Star Online, Skies of Arcadia and the list goes on and on.

And we were getting all of this over the course of less than 10 years. And not one game only no, entire series came and went in that short period. On several platforms, with different games each time. Legendary games that are still discussed today, and milked as well.

Current SEGA is totally sterile, just like all other third parties, in terms of creativity. Everything is milked to death. 10 years is now the time between two mainline Persona games. In the same time, we get 10 Yakuza clones that all look and play the same, and recycle the same assets, locations and mini games. Thank you Nagoshit and your shitty RGGS.

 

[blacktout]

Sega arcade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern Sega

This. Sega during their 80s arcade peak reached heights that the company never came close to touching as a console manufacturer.

 

[Kacho]

This. Sega during their 80s arcade peak reached heights that the company never came close to touching as a console manufacturer.

Yup. After Burner, Out Run, Space Harrier were all incredible. My wife's favorite game is Pengo. Sega in the arcade, both in the 80s and 90s, were ridiculous. Whenever I went to the beach the Daytona machines were poppin.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Resorting to bad faith bro ? Please please. You can do better than this, respect yourself.

Back then we would get Panzer Dragoon, Phantasy Star, Shining Force, Dragon Force, Nights, Burning Rangers, Sonic, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Ristar, Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter, Shinobi, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, Jet Set Radio, Phantasy Star Online, Skies of Arcadia and the list goes on and on.

And we were getting all of this over the course of less than 10 years. And not one game only no, entire series came and went in that short period. On several platforms, with different games each time. Legendary games that are still discussed today, and milked as well.

Current SEGA is totally sterile, just like all other third parties, in terms of creativity. Everything is milked to death. 10 years is now the time between two mainline Persona games. In the same time, we get 10 Yakuza clones that all look and play the same, and recycle the same assets, locations and mini games. Thank you Nagoshit and your shitty RGGS.

Yes, Yakuza 6 and 7 play the same despite being different genres.

 

[cireza]

Yes, Yakuza 6 and 7 play the same despite being different genres.

Why are you ignoring everything else in the post ? Because you don't have any argument.

You picked the only example where they changed the setting, so congrats to RGGS to finally giving us something new after 10 games in the same setting lol.

 

[Gamer79]

OLD sega by a country mile. New Sega could not wipe old Sega's ass.

Old Sega:
Phantasy Star
Out Run
Crazy Taxi
Sonic (when the series was actually good)
Altered Beast
Golden Axe
Gunstar Heros
Streets of Rage
Shining Force Series
Jet Set Radio
Shenmu
The House of the Dead
Skies of Arcadia

I could keep going. It's embarrassing even comparing Modern Sega with the old Sega because Sega is just is barely a Shadow of it's former self.

 

[lame gag1990]

not exactly, but I'm also referring to Shenmue. The set of Sega franchises in that period fluctuated a lot.
Seaman, virtua fighter kids, Nights, Sonic R, I prefer Bayonetta, Like a Dragon, Sonic Racing and Binary Domain over them.
.

I respect that my guy. SEGA is still SEGA to me. I still love them either way.

 

[RAIDEN1]

It's a difficult one to say "old" Sega, as in the 80's you could say the civil war in the company was brewing and it came to a head between 1992/1994 with all things Sega 32x and Saturn...it appears they were only EVER unified when it came to the development of the Mega-Genesis, (and systems before that..) and probably the Sega CD......Meanwhile in the Arcades it was a different story, they were going toe-to-toe with the likes of Namco etc....no issues there....

Current Sega were forced to be this way because if they didn't then they would end up like 3DO, Commodore etc...

 

[Spukc]

Current Sega's strengths include strengthening the Sonic brand,

 

[Plies]

I freakin love Wave Racer.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Why are you ignoring everything else in the post ? Because you don't have any argument.

You picked the only example where they changed the setting, so congrats to RGGS to finally giving us something new after 10 games in the same setting lol.

I'm not talking about setting, did you actually know that the last 2 games are turn-based JRPGs?

If you want to talk about locations....

Tokyo
Nagoya
Osaka
Sapporo
Onomichi
Yokohama
Fukuoka
Hawaii

Such amazing games.

 

[Azelover]

I'm not even a customer of theirs anymore. I haven't purchased a game from Sega in ages, and I used to be a hardcore Sega kid.

So, old Sega. No contest.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Old Sega since they actually got a single exclusive game I like which was Deep Fear.

 

[cireza]

I'm not talking about setting, did you actually know that the last 2 games are turn-based JRPGs?

If you want to talk about locations....

Tokyo
Nagoya
Osaka
Sapporo
Onomichi
Yokohama
Fukuoka
Hawaii

Such amazing games.

So still ignoring the entirety of the post. No argument.

In any case, the poll result is clear enough.

 

[ecosse_011172]

So still ignoring the entirety of the post. No argument.

In any case, the poll result is clear enough.

No ignoring anything, I just chose to adress the point I have an issue with, that RGG are "shitty" when they're one of the most consistently excellent and admired studios there is (except in your perma-misery opinion).

 

[cireza]

No ignoring anything, I just chose to dress the point I have an issue with, that RGG are "shitty" when they're one of the most consistently excellent and admired studios there is (except in your perma-misery opinion).

Nagoshit threw SEGA in its worst period post consoles. Guy was corrupted to death. We are finally having a glimpse at the greatness that existed before him, but it still needs to take form. For now, promises. Waiting for them to deliver on Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Jet Set Radio and Crazy Taxi.

If you can't see this, then that's your problem.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Nagoshit threw SEGA in its worst period post consoles. Guy was corrupted to death. We are finally having a glimpse at the greatness that existed before him, but it still needs to take form. For now, promises. Waiting for them to deliver on Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Jet Set Radio and Crazy Taxi.

If you can't see this, then that's your problem.

When did Nagoshi take over?

I noticed a big drop in quality from Sega as soon as the PS360 generation started.

Apart from. Virtua Fighter 5 and some HD arcade classic rereleases I bought nothing from Sega that gen.

First half of PS4/XBO gen was pretty bad for Sega too

 

[Hudo]

Let me put it this way:

Shining Force II & III
Phantasy Star IV
Panzer Dragoon I & II
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Jet Set Radio
Galaxy Force II
Outrunners
Sega Rally 1 & 2
Burning Rangers
Dragon Force I & II
Streets of Rage 2
Golden Axe
Golden Axe: The Revenge of Death Adder
Sakura Wars I & II

 

[ecosse_011172]

Nagoshit threw SEGA in its worst period post consoles. Guy was corrupted to death. We are finally having a glimpse at the greatness that existed before him, but it still needs to take form. For now, promises. Waiting for them to deliver on Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Jet Set Radio and Crazy Taxi.

If you can't see this, then that's your problem.

Please explain why the guy responsible for many amazing games is so bad.
BTW "Nagoshit" is really childish, especially from a grown man with kids.

 

[Generic]

New SEGA has Hatsune Miku.

 

[cireza]

When did Nagoshi take over?

I noticed a big drop in quality from Sega as soon as the PS360 generation started.

Apart from. Virtua Fighter 5 and some HD arcade classic rereleases I bought nothing from Sega that gen.

First half of PS4/XBO gen was pretty bad for Sega too

So that's exactly when Nagoshit rose internally to Producer and Chief Producer role. He was a major deciding factor in what games were made. He was totally corrupted by Sony, as well as being a fraud. He did absolutely nothing at Netease. Enough said.

Now that he left, we finally got multiplatform projects again as well as some interesting series being revived.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

New Sega has Atlus.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

New Sega has Bayonetta

 

[ungalo]

did you actually know that the last 2 games are turn-based JRPGs?

basically the serie is now even more boring and repetitive

 

[IDKFA]

Current Sega is the publisher of Total War and Football Manager, two of my favorite games of all time.

Current Sega gets my vote.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Nagoshit threw SEGA in its worst period post consoles. Guy was corrupted to death. We are finally having a glimpse at the greatness that existed before him, but it still needs to take form. For now, promises. Waiting for them to deliver on Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Jet Set Radio and Crazy Taxi.

If you can't see this, then that's your problem.

you're different, the man who made F zero GX, Yakuza, clearly has a superior intellect to the devs who made the old games you love so much. Hell VF6 hasn't even been released and it's already the best VF ever. with the exception of Rieko Kodama, the old Sega was led by imbecile producers.

 

[ecosse_011172]

basically the serie is now even more boring and repetitive

Hard disagree, I think it's incredible that they managed to switch to JRPGs and make them so well, I just finished Yakuza 8 and it was a blast from start to finish.
There was nothing boring about it. Repetive - yes, like all games, especially JRPGs.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Today I learned that Toshihiro Nagoshi, designer on titles like the Virtua Racing, and Virtua Fighter series, director or producer on games like Super Monkey Ball and the superlative F-Zero GX as well as a long list of other things such as the adored Yakuza series is actually a fraud and has been "corrupted by Sony".

[h3][/h3]

 

[cireza]

Today I learned that Toshihiro Nagoshi, designer on titles like the Virtua Racing, and Virtua Fighter series, director or producer on games like Super Monkey Ball and the superlative F-Zero GX as well as a long list of other things such as the adored Yakuza series is actually a fraud and has been "corrupted by Sony".

[h3][/h3]

You are ignorant that's your problem. You have zero insight on what happened at SEGA for the last 30 years, unlike me.

NetEase to Close Nagoshi Studio Amid Major Cuts

Nearly three years have passed since Toshihiro Nagoshi departed SEGA and Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio to e…

segabits.com

Not a single game made at Netease.
As soon as this guy got deciding power, it became a shitfest. SEGA were right to fire him.

Virtua Racing and Fighter are mainly the work of Yu Suzuki, who was the director.

 

[ecosse_011172]

You are ignorant that's your problem. You have zero insight on what happened at SEGA for the last 30 years, unlike me.

NetEase to Close Nagoshi Studio Amid Major Cuts

Nearly three years have passed since Toshihiro Nagoshi departed SEGA and Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio to e…

segabits.com

Not a single game made at Netease.
As soon as this guy got deciding power, it became a shitfest. SEGA were right to fire him.

Virtua Racing and Fighter are mainly the work of Yu Suzuki, who was the director.

I'm sure you have some reasonable points in your completely egotistical character assassination.
We'll see going forward but one thing is for sure, the Yakuza games are excellent.

 

[cireza]

I'm sure you have some reasonable points in your completely egotistical character assassination.
We'll see going forward but one thing is for sure, the Yakuza games are excellent.

So in the end you never adressed the complete post because you don't have a single thing to say against it, but anyway all the people here with a reasonable experience of what SEGA did in the past have voted, and rightfully, for old SEGA.

 

[ecosse_011172]

So in the end you never adresseF the complete post because you don't have a single thing to say against it, but anyway all the people here with a reasonable experience of what SEGA did in the past have voted, and rightfully, for old SEGA.

I'll say that 5ch may not be the most reliable source in the world, I'll also ask if the takeover of Atlus was a terrible idea under his stewardship?
Isn't Netease a shitshow closing many studios?

I think the truth is somehow more nuanced than your childish and simplistic "Yagoshi is the devil" viewpoint.

 

[AJUMP23]

Current Sega isn't dying or going bankrupt. But Genesis Sega was them at their prime.