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[OccamsLightsaber]

Yep. The terrorist used a 30-06 bolt action rifle, which is commonly used for hunting. Ultimately, if someone wants to do something, they're going to do it. I used to think there was safety in the idea that most people are reasonable and wouldn't risk their lives or freedom in these kinds of attacks, but the droves of support that this cowardly act has received has me reevaluating that idea completely. It's not just the lone psycho shooter you need to worry about. It's the tens of thousands of like-minded individuals cheering him on.

Ahhh your comments make sense now. It is now apparent that you were born yesterday.

 

[cireza]

You know videogames are fucked when you get to know the political opinion of 50 developers on a mater totally unrelated to the games they develop. These two worlds should absolutely never cross, and this is true for any professional activity. Yet here we are with all these clowns showing to the world they work on videogames AND sharing their political point of view.

Utterly disrespectful.

 

[viveks86]

That's interesting stuff, but that is freedom to engage in political activities. That doesn't protect speech in any and all situations. I don't think celebrating a person's death would be protected by those statutes.

That is correct. But it's not difficult to argue that Charlie Kirk is a political figure and speech around his life and death is of political nature. The same would have happened with BLM as even though George Floyd wasn't a political figure, you can argue that the movement was. So then it comes down to state laws.

 

[JORMBO]

Depending on the state you are in, you can do it for other topics. In general, companies are not required to respect the 1st amendment.

But political topics are protected in California at least. What badge you are wearing is not relevant. The laws do vary from state to state on this.

I would assume cheering on violence would transcend it being just a political topic.

 

[Shifty1897]

Y'all, there are crazy/wild people who work on ALL games that have opinions that we don't.
Are you guys really going to stop gaming because 1 or 2 devs that worked on a game you were looking forward to had bad takes?

There's too many games to play right now, if you're looking to buy a banana and there's two people selling bananas next to each other and one of them is loudly shouting that they support murder, you're probably gonna buy the banana from the other guy.

 

[Romulus]

I wanna see your George Floyd meme folder.

Guess it hurts seeing your kinfolks true form. Sorry.

 

[Killer8]

You know videogames are fucked when you get to know the political opinion of 50 developers on a mater totally unrelated to the games they develop. These two worlds should absolutely never cross, and this is true for any professional activity. Yet here we are with all these clowns showing to the world they work on videogames AND sharing their political point of view.

Utterly disrespectful.

The worlds don't need to cross any more, it's all laid bare in the games now anyway.

 

[IFireflyl]

I know freedom of speech does not equal freedom of consequence.
I see why GAF has a No Politics rule.....


Im out of this debate.

I wouldn't call you saying something ignorant and then getting schooled on it a "debate", but you do you.

The bold is not what happened here though. Saying something as part of your work is not the same as tweeting on the internet. One violates workplace rules and is grounds for firing. The other is actually protected by free speech. If a dev gets fired for tweeting something unrelated to work, they can sue and will probably win in court.

You as individuals can voice back at the dev or not choose to buy the game. That's well within your rights as long as it doesn't turn into harassment, doxing, stalking etc.. But the company can't do shit without legal consequences for themselves.

The developer, Drew Harrison, is out of Seattle, Washington. Sucker Punch is operated out of Bellevue, Washington. Washington is an at-will employment state, meaning the company can fire Drew at any time, with or without cause, and with or without notice, as long as the reason is not illegal (such as discrimination, retaliation for whistleblowing, exercising legally protected rights, etc.).

In Washington, a private company generally can terminate an employee for speech or conduct it considers damaging to its workplace culture, reputation, or values. This includes mocking an assassination or celebrating someone's death, even if done outside of work. This does not infringe on freedom of speech since, as I stated earlier, freedom of speech is protecting an entity from government reprisal, not consequences from private entities.

I don't know where you got your law degree, but I would ask for a full refund on that.

EDIT: As an example:

https://cosmicbook.news/dc-comics-cancels-gretchen-felker-martin-red-hood

 

[Mexen]

GAF: Ghost of No Thanks

 

[viveks86]

I would assume cheering on violence would transcend it being just a political topic.

Intuitively, yes. Legally, I don't think so. Are we going to dissect language now? It's not even something explicit like "Yay. Charlie is dead. Let's celebrate and send a message to other Charlies out there". I've only seen the SP staff tweet, which legally can be argued as satire or whatever.

I'm not defending the statements, to be clear. It's obscene and sick that they even think this way. Just saying corporations are subject to state laws.

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

Guess it hurts seeing your kinfolks true form. Sorry.

I've seen what makes you cheer. Your moral grandstanding means nothing.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

For California it is labor code 1101 and 1102 as this would come under political speech.

I don't see the 1102 relevance in this case, but I see what you're saying with 1101. I don't think it makes for an iron-clad argument, especially in an at-will state where the company could show demonstrable proof of brand damage, but it's good to know.

Edit: Apparently, the worker isn't even from California, so none of this matters.

 

[Romulus]

I've seen what makes you cheer. Your moral grandstanding means nothing.

Ah, the tolerant all knowing leftist. Typical.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Ahhh your comments make sense now. It is now apparent that you were born yesterday.

Go on.

 

[Gp1]

I don't mean free speech as the federal right. I meant labor protections against having political opinions. I was using "free speech" loosely, as the ability to freely express an opinion in personal capacity.

She's freely expressing her opinion, no one is restricting her right to say shit.

But if the company does not make a statement or take a position, it can be seen as endorsing a shit opinion.

 

[viveks86]

I wouldn't call you saying something ignorant and then getting schooled on it a "debate", but you do you.



The developer, Drew Harrison, is out of Seattle, Washington. Sucker Punch is operated out of Bellevue, Washington. Washington is an at-will employment state, meaning the company can fire Drew at any time, with or without cause, and with or without notice, as long as the reason is not illegal (such as discrimination, retaliation for whistleblowing, exercising legally protected rights, etc.).

In Washington, a private company generally can terminate an employee for speech or conduct it considers damaging to its workplace culture, reputation, or values. This includes mocking an assassination or celebrating someone's death, even if done outside of work. This does not infringe on freedom of speech since, as I stated earlier, freedom of speech is protecting an entity from government reprisal, not consequences from private entities.

I don't know where you got your law degree, but I would ask for a full refund on that.

If they are all physically based in Washington, then you are right. I've only read about the protections in California. I stand corrected, then.

 

[IFireflyl]

If they are all physically based in Washington, then you are right. I've only read about the protections in California. I stand corrected, then.

Sorry for the snarky one-liner I had in there. I removed it.

 

[Radical_3d]

Termination in the US is always "at-will" with exceptions for "protected classes" to prevent discriminations. Protection against termination for personal opinions, especially related to politics is state law. Charlie Kirk is a political figure. So speech around him will be considered political in nature. Some states have protections and others don't. I just know a little about California state law. This will vary from state to state and can get messy.

So, the only hope for Sucker Punch is that those devs agree to resign and save the game or gamble its success on how many get triggered by this. Sucks for Sony because these type of entitled people usually have egos that won't allow them to recognise a mistake.

 

[mckmas8808]

Plenty of idiots post here but I don't hold that against the rest of you.

Just more culture wars bullshit going on. And we all see it happening in this thread too. Many people on both sides politically were proud of what Luigi did to that Healthcare executive too. It's ALL NONSENSE and hateful behavior. How people can root for political violence is beyond terrible. But then wanting to turn it into a video game culture war is just as sick.

 

[Lokaum D+]

So, the only hope for Sucker Punch is that those devs agree to resign and save the game or gamble its success on how many get triggered by this. Sucks for Sony because these type of entitled people usually have egos that won't allow them to recognise a mistake.

No, they can fire them, Viveks is talking about California laws, SP is based in Washington.

 

[Madonis]

I think it's totally disgusting for anyone, game developers included, to celebrate anything like this. They deserve to be called out and shamed for such views. Even if you disagreed with Charlie Kirk's opinions and beliefs, which I mostly did, there should at least be some basic human decency.

That said, it's definitely ironic how a few of the notable online personalities calling for people to make these lists have themselves celebrated or made fun of other incredibly violent actions, but apparently those didn't disgust them. Which, in my opinion, makes them hypocrites, whether consciously or otherwise.

 

[Kacho]

Sorry for the snarky one-liner I had in there. I removed it.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I don't know why you bother responding if you're not educated on the subject matter, and you don't have the decency to look up what freedom of speech means. Freedom of speech means the government cannot censor or punish speech simply because it is offensive, unpopular, or critical of the government. It has nothing to do with private individuals or companies. If you go to work and tell a customer to suck a dick, you're almost certainly getting fired. It's not because you didn't have freedom of speech. It's because the private company that you work for has their own rules regarding what language can be used. A kid can tell their mom to eat shit, and their mom is likely to backhand them into the past. Free speech, but with consequences.

He's a fucking annoying anal contrarian. Lol

 

[Boss Mog]

surejan.gif

What are you trying to say? Are you mentally ill? Can you not form a complete sentence to try to make your point?

 

[viveks86]

Sorry for the snarky one-liner I had in there. I removed it.

Nah I'd prefer that you kept it. Silly of me to talk about California laws in a topic about Washington and... Vancouver? Just shared the little I know as I hire people from all over.

 

[IFireflyl]

Nah I'd prefer that you kept it. Silly of me to talk about California laws in a topic about Washington and... Vancouver? Just shared the little I know as I hire people from all over.

Ask and you shall receive.

 

[Arrapaho]

Is this the people of "diversity and inclusion"?

 

[Radical_3d]

If they are all physically based in Washington, then you are right. I've only read about the protections in California. I stand corrected, then.

No, they can fire them. Vivid is talking about California laws, SP is based in Washington.

It's already working hours in the west coast then…

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

Go on.

You've said it yourself. You now see the world for what it is, congrats, you're now awake, woke, if you will.

 

[Boss Mog]

Wild seeing GAF become the very SJWs they hate. Ironic

*Makes false equivalency in bad faith* yep, tag checks out.

 

[Madflavor]

I mean I wasn't going to buy Ghost of Yotei anyway because it looks lame and boring.

 

[methane47]

Except celebrating death isn't at all the same thing. The Left wanted to cancel a game because they didn't agree with JK. No one here is saying cancel the game, but our society shouldn't have to deal with terrorist supporters. Kind of a freaking huge difference, wouldn't you agree? As in not even remotely the same thing.

Its never going to be "the same thing" There will never been an exact scenario to compare to.
There will always be "yeah, but" excuses for everything. Where one side will say "yeah, but" to excuse the behavior of their "side"
I just wanted to point out to the folks currently on their high horse that they are espousing the same characteristics of the persons on the otherside that they tend to hate.

SuckerPunch is a big company with 100+ employees. Its incredible to think that a business should have such a tight control on the thoughts of all their employees, that 1(?) employee writes some BS on twitter and the response from (us) the gaming community is to lash out and punish the entire company, for something that has nothing to do with the game?

 

[viveks86]

I don't see the 1102 relevance in this case, but I see what you're saying with 1101. I don't think it makes for an iron-clad argument, especially in an at-will state where the company could show demonstrable proof of brand damage, but it's good to know.

Edit: Apparently, the worker isn't even from California, so none of this matters.

It still matters. Now you know California is crazier than you thought

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[powder]

If I refused to buy products or consume media from people I disagree with I'd probably have way less games and books than I do.

Same concept as "not buying cheap shit from China" – you would have nothing.

 

[Walliwallipaloo]

Bad-quality people, bad-quality games. It's the secret sauce.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Wild seeing GAF become the very SJWs they hate. Ironic

If a leftist political commentator like Hasan or Destiny was shot and killed in public and a game dev showed their glee at the fact, I wouldn't support them either. It's called being a human. You should check it out sometime.

 

[Topher]

That is correct. But it's not difficult to argue that Charlie Kirk is a political figure and speech around his life and death is of political nature. The same would have happened with BLM as even though George Floyd wasn't a political figure, you can argue that the movement was. So then it comes down to state laws.

disregard. I see your follow ups.

 

[avenovah]

Would love to hear Colin Moriarty bring this up on Sacred Symbols. Mystic Ryan's way too soft for topics like this.

 

[Neo_game]

Most people should not care about companies employees personal opinion on politics. How do we know what are some political beliefs of Nvidia, Microsoft, Google etc... employees opinion about certain influencer or politicians ? I do not think it matters to much.

 

[Last Hearth]

Honestly guys, the warning sign were already all there for Sucker Punch. I didn't need this to know to stay away from them.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

So, Gaf has now become Cancel-culture?

 

[JoduanER2]

If a leftist political commentator like Hasan or Destiny was shot and killed in public and a game dev showed their glee at the fact, I wouldn't support them either. It's called being a human. You should check it out sometime.

This is exactly the point. The response from the right would be much better. The left is currently filled of weird and hateful people with no values... just go and looj the purple forum... very hateful people

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

This is sick. And they love to pose as the virtuous ones.

 

[DirtInUrEye]

While if the killer used a knife you would be mourning now?

No, I didn't know him. A knife killing would have greatly nullified the ironic death he suffered though, yes.

 

[JoduanER2]

Is this the people of "diversity and inclusion"?

Yes they are, is pure bullshit

 

[yurinka]

To be clear, the guy's obviously not the best employer to work for, and where there's smoke there's fire. There wasn't a vast conspiracy to ruin a standout guy.

According to all the multiple related court cases and different investigations from different government institutions there wasn't any fire, Quantic Dream and him didn't do the different things they were accused.

The smoke was just a few angry former employees and few journalists originally mading up stuff, plus woke activists parroting that in the gaming press.

In fact Quantic Dream later sued them and proven in the court that one of these journalists who originally made the false claims that later got parroted lied about them on bad faith (couldn't prove that the other journalist did it in bad faith).

 

[vpance]

Latest comments on their Yotei promo vid
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj6i1eCfIgA

 

[Metnut]

If you want something to be mad about, the social media algorithms will deliver it to you. The most extreme and angry takes, specially curated to get you riled up. Bahhhhhhh. Bahhhhhhh.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Most people should not care about companies employees personal opinion on politics. How do we know what are some political beliefs of Nvidia, Microsoft, Google etc... employees opinion about certain influencer or politicians ? I do not think it matters to much.

I dont think it matters much either, especially since it seems the shit loads of people who work at those companies dont seem to be as unhinged as gaming studio people telling the world their views despite (I quickly googled it) these 3 companies have a combined workforce of approximately 440,000.

A giant company like Nestle has 275,000 employees alone. How come you never hear of any of the gazillion execs and VPs etc... saying dumb stuff on social media causing company shitstorm?