Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
What do you mean? Unless I missed something, mass storage cannot be used as a stand-in for graphics memory due to severe physical limitations.
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[MLiD] AMD Magnus APU Full Leak: RDNA 5, Zen 6, 110 TOPS NPU = XBOX Next-Gen Console!
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Rumor Hardware
MisterXDTV
Member
The real lede here is the console project slipping into 2027. We already knew this would be an uber-powerful, uber-expensive machine, that part is not news.
2026 was the targeted date a lot of leakers mentioned prior, including our ownHeisenbergFX4 iirc. Launching with GTA6 was a big goal too iirc.
The can still hope that Rockstar delays the game again...
LOL
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
No, given how much smaller latency RAM/VRAM has in comparison to even latest SSDs. Also with GDDR7 one chip has 48Gbps, which is 6GB/s and you generally need 6-8 of those, so even if we are not talking about latency (for CPU sake), it is still in totally different ballpark.
Anchovie123
Member
These PS6 specs are making me go insane. They make literally no sense what so ever.
7 core CPU??? When has anything ever came in an odd number? Why not just have 8 zen 6 cores with 1 disabled for yield and 1 for OS? Why does the OS need 2 LP cores?
Why does next gen require 2x the VRAM of current AAA games running max settings on PC? Even games with FULL Path Tracing have 16gb as recommended, why the jump to 32+? And dont come at me with this AI bullshit
7 core CPU??? When has anything ever came in an odd number? Why not just have 8 zen 6 cores with 1 disabled for yield and 1 for OS? Why does the OS need 2 LP cores?
Why does next gen require 2x the VRAM of current AAA games running max settings on PC? Even games with FULL Path Tracing have 16gb as recommended, why the jump to 32+? And dont come at me with this AI bullshit
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
>I don't care about Xbox or if it's more powerful
>Complete crashout on the next page
Our guy has severe main character syndrome.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I dont know why anyone mentions GTA honestly. Only thing that would matter is if it has an uncapped frame rate mode, which it won't. It'll be able to run the Xbox version. And later the PC version. It won't matter at all.
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MisterXDTV
Member
Your post explains perfectly why this is not gonna be a new "console". It will run software made for other machines
winjer
Member
These PS6 specs are making me go insane. They make literally no sense what so ever.
7 core CPU??? When has anything ever came in an odd number? Why not just have 8 zen 6 cores with 1 disabled for yield and 1 for OS? Why does the OS need 2 LP cores?
Why does next gen require 2x the VRAM of current AAA games running max settings on PC? Even games with FULL Path Tracing have 16gb as recommended, why the jump to 32+? And dont come at me with this AI bullshit
Because modern consoles don't just play games. So it's necessary to have some cores for background tasks, such as chatting, streaming, recording, social media features, etc.
But these tasks are as demanding as games, so lower power cores are better.
Current gen titles are not the target for next gen hardware. The amount of memory a console has, always increased with each new generation. There were times when it would increase 8X. Not just 2X.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Which is good, because it'll have most everything. It'll be low sales so obviously no exclusives or anything.
I have no idea why some insiders are so determined to call it a console. It might literally come down to licensing and legal semantics to enable BC. It doesn't matter though. It will run all the PC stores. Or maybe they mean its fixed hardware and can't be easily upgraded or has some custom hardware element with AI or something.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Loxus
Member
1) I don't believe that 1 CPU core will be disabled. It has never been done in any of the consoles from AMD as far as I know.These PS6 specs are making me go insane. They make literally no sense what so ever.
7 core CPU??? When has anything ever came in an odd number? Why not just have 8 zen 6 cores with 1 disabled for yield and 1 for OS? Why does the OS need 2 LP cores?
Why does next gen require 2x the VRAM of current AAA games running max settings on PC? Even games with FULL Path Tracing have 16gb as recommended, why the jump to 32+? And dont come at me with this AI bullshit
2) The 2 LP cores is all about power efficiency. The OS doesn't need the fastest running cores and the LP cores are good for background tasks.
3) The increase in RAM can also mean more on screen and more variety of NPCs, more variety of objects, more variety in textures, much higher resolution textures, etc. Basically more on screen details with more variety.
4) AI is not bs. It you ever used it for productivity, you'll realize AI is some seriously good stuff. Applying that to gaming will open new gameplay experiences.
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Anchovie123
Member
I dont know the efficiency or the die space of these LP cores but the past 2 generations have had the same CPU setup (8 cores, 1 yield, 1 OS, 6 for gaming) just seems a bit weird that their switching it up.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I agree with that however many on this thread, and even MLID in the case of Magnus being up to 350W, conflate the SoC/APU power target with the whole console power consumption.
This is a fair point and is very inline with Sony's/Cerny's obsession with efficiency. Having now belatedly watched Cerny's and Huynh's Project Amethyst video and seeing the Universal Compression tech it makes a lot more sense being able to use e.g. a 160-bit bus which I guess aims to be an effective bandwidth multiplier.
Cerny also subtly hints of UC enabling to exceed the paper specs.....
winjer
Member
Both the PS5 and PS4 have all 8 CPU cores physically enabled.
You are probably remembering the PS3, that had 8 SPEs, with one disabled for yields.
And the reason for the current change in cores is that Zen6 is changing it's CPU core layout to have 12 cores per die.
Anchovie123
Member
I'm pretty sure both PS4 and PS5 have 1 core disabled for yield purposes and 1 reserved for OS, just strange that their switching it up this go around.
I just find it hard to believe that PS6 will be doing more graphically than PC is currently doing at max settings, thus the vram jump is confusing to me.
Anchovie123
Member
Am i going nuts??? Im like 100% sure that the PS4 and PS5 only have 6 cores enabled for gaming.
winjer
Member
You are just misremembering things.
I can assure you that both the Jaguar and the Zen2 on the PS4 and PS5, have all 8 cores physically enabled.
Though they have one or two reserved for the OS and background apps.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
PS3/360 went from total 32MB to 512MB on the PS2. That shit was a true gen over gen leap.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
More like 6.5 for the PS5, but developers can make some adjustments. They aren't "disabled" like GPU cores for yield purposes though. You could say they're locked to OS and background operations.
I think that's how you misremember it.
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Anchovie123
Member
Fast storage is less than two orders of magnitude removed from ram speeds now, which is a gap caches have been bridging on the regular for decades.
Moreover, the bandwidth average 4k frame needs to render detail well in excess of a modern ue5 title is below what ps5 stock drive provides.
The problem isn't hardware(anymore), it's software that needs to stop treating SSD like hard disks and content on them like files.
winjer
Member
For the PS5, that problem is already solved with their API for file management.
It's on Windows that it's still a major issue, even with Direct Storage.
Your conflating resource sharing with the OS.
Basically all consoles released in last 2 decades consume between 25-30% of their cpu on OS.
Unlike PC its a capped number(OS can't just decide to take all cores because it feels like it).
"Solved" is when shipping software changes the paradigm, not API existing.
Even ps5 exclusives like HZFW still used file paradigm, I have this info first hand.
And of course the pc problem is a deadweight that stops this from being used because noone had the money to build just for a console anymore, not even Sony.
winjer
Member
But that is a problem with devs not adopting the most efficient API.
winjer
Member
The solution would be for Sony to remove the older file APIs and force everyone into the new one.
But that would piss off a lot of people and would break backwards compatibility.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
MLR needs RAM.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
They won't explain what that word means. I suspect it's a Super Series X that also runs PC stores. Probably can't upgrade individual parts.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Its a console
twilo99
Member
What is a "console" ?
Anchovie123
Member
Cyberpunk
Alan Wake 2
Doom Eternal
Indina Jones
F1 25
Black Myth: Wukong
All of these games on PC maxed settings with path tracing have 16gb vram listed as their recommended specs. Why do these consoles need 32-40gb of vram all of a sudden. There is absolutely nothing AI could offer that justifies the added cost of this much vram. Makes no sense.
Alan Wake 2
Doom Eternal
Indina Jones
F1 25
Black Myth: Wukong
All of these games on PC maxed settings with path tracing have 16gb vram listed as their recommended specs. Why do these consoles need 32-40gb of vram all of a sudden. There is absolutely nothing AI could offer that justifies the added cost of this much vram. Makes no sense.
I think a solution would be to fund a tech showpiece and ram it into a few of their games instead of burning money at the GaaS altar.
Same for MS for that matter, instead of producing a cheap and dirty texture streaming demo that noone cared about, why not productise that with one of those billion $ from acquisition you just fired 20% of staff from
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I still have my bets on 3DO series XXX
Bojji
Member
Xbox will have Universal Compression as well.
For consoles memory is a combination of RAM and VRAM, outside of GPU needs you still need some Gigabytes for CPU stuff.
That depends on how you define 'justified'. GenAI models even at mid scales go into 10s of GB today. Yes, its not a thing 'yet' because games are really slow adopting new tech now, and we're more likely going to go with micro models rather than small for on device realtime applications, but its going to come, and unlike graphics these things don't have a trivial streaming model.
Its all guess work at the moment(how much to be useful and how adopted it gets) but i guess that's the hw architecs job to play fortune teller at.
viveks86
Member
Someone should do a documentary on this. Matt Walsh would be proud.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
2027 release is pointless as there simply won't be software to showcase the hardware for launch.
The fundamental issue is that they don't have much to hang the generational identity on beyond the software and how it performs, because its all about the AI type functionality. So RTGI, upscaling, frame-gen etc. Which really isn't much of a draw for normies beyond "this looks nice".
Here's the problem though. Building software solely for that hardware capability is economic suicide, they will still need to have versions that run on older platforms and use legacy tech to do the same jobs. So there's no dev-time advantage, and cross-gen will last even longer, likely into 2030 and beyond when PS5 is no longer in production.
This gen, despite all the whinging, has actually largely solved the two biggest drawbacks with console gaming: Sub-60fps titles and long load-times.
If a game looks nice, runs smoothly and doesn't have intrusive load-times the mass-market user will not be in any rush to upgrade. Enthusiasts care about the fancy particulars, but the PC market is there to cater to their needs, so...
Its a weird situation, especially regarding pricing... A successful console has to be relatively low cost, but without prices falling on the previous gen models... are we looking at straight market-replacement almost like a phone upgrade scenario ?
The fundamental issue is that they don't have much to hang the generational identity on beyond the software and how it performs, because its all about the AI type functionality. So RTGI, upscaling, frame-gen etc. Which really isn't much of a draw for normies beyond "this looks nice".
Here's the problem though. Building software solely for that hardware capability is economic suicide, they will still need to have versions that run on older platforms and use legacy tech to do the same jobs. So there's no dev-time advantage, and cross-gen will last even longer, likely into 2030 and beyond when PS5 is no longer in production.
This gen, despite all the whinging, has actually largely solved the two biggest drawbacks with console gaming: Sub-60fps titles and long load-times.
If a game looks nice, runs smoothly and doesn't have intrusive load-times the mass-market user will not be in any rush to upgrade. Enthusiasts care about the fancy particulars, but the PC market is there to cater to their needs, so...
Its a weird situation, especially regarding pricing... A successful console has to be relatively low cost, but without prices falling on the previous gen models... are we looking at straight market-replacement almost like a phone upgrade scenario ?
Ronin_7
Member
The boat has sunk.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Ellis
Member
True but the PS2 had a higher fill-rate and GS RAM that clocked higher than the PS3 and 360 combined.
Only because we never got the real ps3 (which was supposed to be somewhere around 768GB/sec).
I
blame TimSweeney for that one.That's the crux of the problem right there. AI for pixel cosmetics is a selling point for exactly a dozen nerds on this forum, and from that, 99% of ...us... will also own a 10090 Ti so won't actually care either.
The other differentiators are largely unexplored and will hinge greatly on platform holder pushing them or it won't happen.
Eg. We're overdue for an interaction paradigm shift and I could see NDD or R* go to town with that but not when they're saddled with PS5/Switch2 skus.
Well both ps5 and switch2 have done rather well not being much else. But as you say both fixed the framerate/loading problems from past gen so that's no longer a plus.
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kevboard
Member
not a single person said the Series S will be more powerful than the PS5
Bojji
Member
I think some idiotic Xbox fanboys did (even on twitter or something). Value of things like VRS was overstated before launch.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Tom Warren knew exactly what he was doing with that wording and faster doesn't mean more powerful but people ran with it
kevboard
Member
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