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[FireFly]

We know even 9070 non xt, with its 220W tdp is at 225% of performance vs base ps5 gpu, and that card launched march 2025 on 5nm.
Gotta use logic here, for 2028 tech on 3 or 2nm process node we will get vastly more performance in ps6, compared to current desktop gpu's think something around 4090, including ai upscaling and rt performance too.

Ofc unpredictable stuff could happen like ww3 or dunno alien invasion, but if things go smoothly ps6 gonna be at least 3x stronger from base ps5 on top of few times better ai upscaling and rt capabilities(we can safely assume at least some form of basic raytracing will be default/baseline for next gen games).

The issue is that the cost per transistor is not going down significantly with newer processes. If you want more CUs on 3nm, you're going to have to pay for them. The 9070 is 357 mm^2 on 4nm, compared with 279 mm^2 for the PS5 Pro on 5nm/4nm. It has Infinity Cache which could be removed, but doesn't have a CPU. So if we take the Pro as the base, we're looking at adding more memory, still increasing the size of the chip even to hit 9070 level performance, and then reducing the price to $599? If the PS5 Pro breaks even at $550 say, then Sony would only have $50 to play with before they start taking losses.

(3nm looks like it would enable a ~25% boost to clock speed, and 2nm looks to be too expensive, hence Kepler implying it's not being used).

Edit: Another thing to point out is that a 256-bit bus on GDDR7 is only expected to give around 1 TB/s of bandwidth. That's what the 4090 has, but the 4090 has a huge increase in L2 cache to match the Infinity Cache on Radeon cards. If you're stripping out the IC to save die space, you won't get that benefit.

 

[PeteBull]

The issue is that the cost per transistor is not going down significantly with newer processes. If you want more CUs on 3nm, you're going to have to pay for them. The 9070 is 357 mm^2 on 4nm, compared with 279 mm^2 for the PS5 Pro on 5nm/4nm. It has Infinity Cache which could be removed, but doesn't have a CPU. So if we take the Pro as the base, we're looking at adding more memory, still increasing the size of the chip even to hit 9070 level performance, and then reducing the price to $599? If the PS5 Pro breaks even at $550 say, then Sony would only have $50 to play with before they start taking losses.

(3nm looks like it would enable a ~25% boost to clock speed, and 2nm looks to be too expensive, hence Kepler implying it's not being used).

Thats why i think 3x powerjump is doable but we can forget about 400 or even 600$ price, its gonna be 999$, including discdrive, so maybe bestcase scenario 800$ discless but who really knows maybe its 999$ discless
Inflation is real thing after all and that 300$ that seemed like a bargain back in 1995( first playstation launchprice) is equivalent to 632$ currently, and lets remember we got almost 3 and a half years of inflation left still

 

[PeteBull]

To be fair PS4 Pro did not deliver a 2x performance jump but a 2x TFLOPS one. We are mixing a few things here IMHO.

Some games it was at 2x, some only +78% aka 1080p to 1440p jump (+78% pixels on screen, like in case of uncharted4), but important thing is, it was achieved at same price of 400$/€ and took only 3 years, aka 2013 to 2016.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Some games it was at 2x, some only +78% aka 1080p to 1440p jump (+78% pixels on screen, like in case of uncharted4), but important thing is, it was achieved at same price of 400$/€ and took only 3 years, aka 2013 to 2016.

To be fair the PS5 Pro is likely less subsidised now (likely maybe even turning a little profit) than it was in the PS4 Pro case, so that is something objectively worse but then again it was kind of expected too. Both consoles were quite a bit memory bandwidth limited.

Otherwise, with silicon manufacturing process scaling being what it is (it takes longer and longer to make meaningful performance jumps and it is costlier and costlier to design and manufacturing chips each time you jump to a major new node… each performance jump also needs to be greater and greater to make a meaningful impact) it was expected for PS5 Pro to have a tough time bringing a massive impact to games especially for devs that did not spend a lot of time making Pro optimised versions and even more so for those that did not push hard on PSSR and RT adapting their RT code to take advantage of the changes in PS5 Pro's GPU (HW stack management was one of them… not all improvements did avoid the need for that to take full advantage of). With that said with FSR4 like PSSR we may see PS5 Pro pull ahead more.

I recall posting several times well ahead of launch that I was not super excited about a Pro release because I did not think releasing more HW more often is the answer, it is less and less so as time moves on… especially when it is not a new console generation allowed to have exclusive games designed around its features at all and where effortlessly compatibility is the name of the game.

 

[PeteBull]

To be fair the PS5 Pro is likely less subsidised now (likely maybe even turning a little profit) than it was in the PS4 Pro case, so that is something objectively worse but then again it was kind of expected too. Both consoles were quite a bit memory bandwidth limited.

With all the loss on sony gaas initiative its very likely but us/end customers dont give a fuck that sony's concord blew up so much cash they gotta make it up on higher ps5pr0 price.
Lets even assume sony makes 50$/€ on ps5pr0, its price is horrendus for the low specs it has, here in europe even now over 6 months after launch u gotta pay 850- 900€+ including discdrive
U can tell its selling terribly coz its getting those promos already:

https://www.coolblue.de/en/product/955502/playstation-5-pro-disc-drive.html

First few months it was even over 1k euros including discdrive, now both ps5pr0 and discdrive getting cheaper and cheaper (still way above US price tho)xD

 

[nkill20]

With all the loss on sony gaas initiative its very likely but us/end customers dont give a fuck that sony's concord blew up so much cash they gotta make it up on higher ps5pr0 price.
Lets even assume sony makes 50$/€ on ps5pr0, its price is horrendus for the low specs it has, here in europe even now over 6 months after launch u gotta pay 850- 900€+ including discdrive
U can tell its selling terribly coz its getting those promos already:

https://www.coolblue.de/en/product/955502/playstation-5-pro-disc-drive.html

First few months it was even over 1k euros including discdrive, now both ps5pr0 and discdrive getting cheaper and cheaper (still way above US price tho)xD

pro bom is 550 max, sony is upselling it hard.

 

[Panajev2001a]

pro bom is 550 max, sony is upselling it hard.

They are upselling it but not that much, it is a premium model meant to generate revenue (again, most people will buy it without a disc drive). Same reason they increased Switch 2's price to the degree they did.

It is expensive but not a waste of money I think. People need to have reasonable expectations too, releasing HW more frequently is not the solution but it makes the problem worse (including cross gen titles window).