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[Nonehxc]

Needs 4000% tariff.

'This is a hard tariff. A beatifully girthed tariff.

I call it the Stiff Tariff'

 

[Crayon]

'This is a hard tariff. A beatifully girthed tariff.

I call it the Stiff Tariff'

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

The move could also see server production move out of China, as trade tensions with the US intensify.

As trade tensions grow between the US and China, Microsoft is reportedly preparing to move the manufacturing of its Surface laptops and tablets out of China. Nikkei reports that Microsoft is aiming to move manufacturing of Surface devices and data center servers out of China "starting from 2026 at the earliest."

The move will reportedly include components, parts, and product assembly for future Surface hardware and server products. The report claims Microsoft has already shifted some of its existing server production outside China, and is pushing to also produce more Xbox consoles outside of the country.

News of Microsoft's potential manufacturing changes comes just days after President Trump threatened China with an additional 100 percent tariff and more export controls on software. The US and China have also started charging new port fees on each other's ships in recent days, just a week after Beijing tightened export rules on rare earths.

Microsoft is far from the only company trying to expand its manufacturing outside of China. Apple is also reportedly preparing to manufacture a series of new devices in Vietnam. Bloomberg reports that Apple's rumored smart home display hub, indoor security cameras, and a "more advanced tabletop robot" are set to be manufactured in Vietnam, in an effort to shift manufacturing away from China.

Microsoft is reportedly moving its Surface manufacturing out of China

Server production is also reportedly moving

www.theverge.com

---

Vietnam is cheap, they're not moving it to the US otherwise the products would become very expensive to sell unless the government gives them incentives.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Why would they keep manufacturing them?

 

[Bernkastel]

They should move their manufacturing business out of the world.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Well done Trump

 

[crackajack]

I guess avoiding/reducing the tariff and Vietnam being just cheaper. Most countries around China are probably already cheaper than China.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Exactly. I've been having this argument with my pro-tariff family/friends circle for months now. No matter how much they want to scream "Make it in America!", it won't magically will the supply chains and chip fabrication plants into existence. It would take years to get enough chip fabs and an integrated supply chain going because we long sold that out to become a predominately service economy a loooooooooooooooong time ago.

And even then we'd still be beholden to foreign supply chains for rare earth minerals which, IIRC, China still controls the vast majority of. So manufacturing might "move out" of China, but it ain't going far.

Building the infrastructure in the U.S. wouldn't just take "years", it would likely take a decade or more. There's a great book on how Apple built China's manufacturing infrastructure over 10+ years (which is now biting them in the ass).

The reality is that the future of manufacturing needs to be more diversified, as we have learned.

I'm not implying that the U.S. shouldn't aim to re-shore manufacturing, only that it won't happen overnight. In fact, the future of manufacturing might become regional.

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

Given that China are waiting for the go ahead on invading Taiwan, it's probably a good thing we get as much out of China as possible before they annex a country that has some of the most technologically advantaged systems and engineers in the world who manufacture a good portion of our products.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

I think the logic is that since China is actually strong enough to push back and compete If the US tries to strong arm it, by moving the supply chain and production out of China into smaller weaker countries the US can just bully and coerce said countries into getting what it wants. I know it sounds bad but that's the reality it's how it operates, it gets what it wants or there is a need for regime change or freedom.

Neither China or the US are your friends if you're a foreign country. They are both powerful countries that are looking out for their own best interests (as any nation does) but they have influence to actually push their agenda unlike small countries. There is no good guy or bad guy in the sense that there is no good guy or bad guy with the lion and the zebra, it's just nature.

 

[SScorpio]

Given that China are waiting for the go ahead on invading Taiwan, it's probably a good thing we get as much out of China as possible before they annex a country that has some of the most technologically advantaged systems and engineers in the world who manufacture a good portion of our products.

China has a very uphill battle, it would be something to rival D-Day while that was a beach. Taiwan has sheer cliffs that need to be scaled. So instead it would be an insane aerial deployment.

Taiwan also supposedly has plans to blow the semiconductor fabs to keep the equipment out of China's hand. So even if China isn't successful. It would still fuck over the world's chip manufacturing for a decade or more.

 

[SABRE220]

Neither China or the US are your friends if you're a foreign country. They are both powerful countries that are looking out for their own best interests (as any nation does) but they have influence to actually push their agenda unlike small countries. There is no good guy or bad guy in the sense that there is no good guy or bad guy with the lion and the zebra, it's just nature.

Where exactly did I say China is a friend to other countries? That being said, equating a modern developed world to the freaking jungle cave man style isn't a great starting point for justifying positions.

I just think China took and are taking the calmer and more patient approach to gaining influence and power through economic ties, trade deals, investment deals in poor countries that are akin to a soft takeover of a company than a blatant domineering one buying out key state systems/utilities etc. They aren't saints for sure and preserve their self interests always, but are more reasonable in allowing the other party enough leeway. They don't take the aggressive approach and are gaining dividends in the current global climate for it.

Meanwhile, the US approach has been brazenly aggressive; they have little to no reproach of throwing their weight around and will bully and invade countries, set up coups and proxy groups to replace governments who dare to show any resistance to its interests, case in point Venezuela currently(oil, gold), its Iraq with drug instead of weapons of mass destruction but not nearly as tough so an easy mark. Morally questionable definitely but one can't deny the fact that it worked for them in the past but it also had a negative effect over time where it has isolated the United States from its previous seat as the obvious defacto choice to throw their lot in for most nations as the only reasonable superpower especially since they decided they could strong arm the world including their closest allies with sanctions/tarrifs herding countries in Chinas direction as the safer option. It also doesn't help that they are being led once again into armed conflicts that are against their interests by external actors with frightening levels of influence and it's allies are wary of following the mistakes from the past on that front.

It also doesn't help that China has bailed them out of a previous financial crash with major debt owed and the current economy being kept afloat by an artificially severely inflated Ai bubble, which noone knows is even going to bring decent and could result in an impending economic crash which will affect us all. Honestly I was expecting the US to pull back and focus on regrouping and go with a recovery strat for a few years but its been cowabunga it is more than a well thought of strategy.

The best solution for everyone is if the US shows wisdom from learning from the mistakes of the past to develop a more reasonable and sustainable global policy focusing on economic development/diplomatic influence and move away from stupid unnecessary wars that throw whole regions in decade long loops tying everyone down thus moving it back to its solid position as the global anchor but this time less agressive and more responsible than going imperium mode.

Because I'm pretty sure no one is ready for China to become the de facto ruling power of the worl,d and I certainly don't have enough confidence in that timeline working out well enough to risk it.

 

[darrylgorn]

You're going to hear a lot about BRICS and rare earth minerals for the next decade.

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

China has a very uphill battle, it would be something to rival D-Day while that was a beach. Taiwan has sheer cliffs that need to be scaled. So instead it would be an insane aerial deployment.

Taiwan also supposedly has plans to blow the semiconductor fabs to keep the equipment out of China's hand. So even if China isn't successful. It would still fuck over the world's chip manufacturing for a decade or more.

China have been buying submarines in bulk with the intention of a surprise attack. They've bought a lot from Russia. They're also ensuring they have the means to move land infantry quickly as well as equipment. Unfortunately, it's just a case of when now. Perhaps Taiwan plan to do that, but I bet the Chinese have the country infiltrated already and they'll stop it from ever happening. They've already shown here in the UK that they can do it and get away with it.

 

[Holammer]

Good. Companies with factories in China will see them seized & nationalized when/if a war over Taiwan starts. Everyone should have bugged out yesterday.

 

[Nvzman]

Exactly. I've been having this argument with my pro-tariff family/friends circle for months now. No matter how much they want to scream "Make it in America!", it won't magically will the supply chains and chip fabrication plants into existence. It would take years to get enough chip fabs and an integrated supply chain going because we long sold that out to become a predominately service economy a loooooooooooooooong time ago.

And even then we'd still be beholden to foreign supply chains for rare earth minerals which, IIRC, China still controls the vast majority of. So manufacturing might "move out" of China, but it ain't going far.

I think you're also missing the point that this isn't just to have everything made in America, its also to reduce dependence on China. Without getting too overly political, they very much abuse foreign markets by exploiting cheap labor, bypassing workers rights and standards, and funnel so much money into their own companies to essentially copy foreign products and re-sell them at aggressively cheaper prices to dominate markets. Its not just about the current POTUS, its becoming more aware that we should not just allow cheap goods or production just because they're cheap.

I find sperging out about countries like Russia puzzling when countries like China have far more nefarious and invasive goals. I'm all for moving production away from China at all costs, as great as producing American-made goods would be, it would be a long, slow change. So production in Vietnam, Japan (like some Sony Xperia phones are made in Japan which is cool imo), etc is a welcome change. China should not be allowed to cheat themselves into every market, look at EV cars. Their government aggressively funds their EV car makers to get their car prices as cheap as possible in European markets so that it dominates the actual European carmakers. Compared to the US, which only really protects their own domestic car market (which is also why Chinese EVs are banned), this is a highly invasive and cheat-y way to get foreign market share.