WC/Jez: Microsoft's ambitious new Xbox: Your entire Xbox console library, the full power of Windows PC gaming, and no multiplayer paywall

Will you buy the next Xbox hardware?

  • Total voters
    448
ChorizoPicozo said:
well, MS spent closer to $100B on Xbox and still failed, and they are balls deep in the AI race (which is not making money) pressure is high.
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It'll get worse before it gets better. Microsoft was all in on OpenAI, but that relationship has clearly soured. They have 5 years to ween themselves off of OpenAI because that's when all of their contracts end. OpenAI just restructured as a for-profit, so they're not going to want a buy out and won't be offering up special deals to Microsoft again. If Microsoft doesn't become a global leader in AI on their own efforts to compete with OpenAI and everyone else in 4 years and two months, they'll be left far, far behind. It's why Nadella is over-extending; the clock is ticking or Microsoft will have missed the AI boat. Xbox sinking USD$80b on Xbox only for it not turn around is a massive problem for that plan.
 
Tobimacoss said:
And that basically confirms the Console form factor isn't going away, and neither are the GDKX optimized game versions aka Console SKUs.

Like I said before, full convergence is about bringing together the two game dev environments together for both PC and Console form factors, not getting rid of either. So Consoles will be have PC store access with Windows SDK games and Xbox PC will have Forwards Compatibility with GDKX optimized versions. It's a new paradigm, both are products that currently don't exist.

First statement he is talking about that they both use the same technologies. Windows NT kernel, Win32 app model aka Windows API, unified dev environment with GDK/GDKX. Thus they're the same in his eyes, just separated due to form factors. Second statement is about creating a new paradigm, of devices that don't currently exist. Consoles that can run PC games too in addition to Console games. And PCs that can run Console games too in addition to PC games. That's the innovation.
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The innovative work he's referring to is likely what's already known, the introduction of Windows SDK and removal of the Xbox GDK.
 
Topher said:
Star Trek GIF
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Bruh...... Samething I said.
 
mckmas8808 said:
They shouldn't want to grow their MAUs, if it means the money they get per person is less. Meaning what does it mean to grow you "MAUs" if people stop buying on the PS consoles and move to PC with other accounts?
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I feel they are stuck between two situations. no exclusives and the need for growth beyond ps ecosystem. The only way to solve it would be inexpensive ps6. They don't need folks looking at pc as they get no cut from anything but their own products.
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
I am not saying this is what happened but sure looks like it

Imagine leaving your dream job to go help facilitate a takeover and once completed instead of getting rewarded you are told to get the fuck out

Again, thats what seemed to have happened

Golden Globes Reaction GIF
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I could see that being something that happened.

I think Mike has the absolute right to be "Jilted" if that was even remotely the case.
 
Microsoft has already confirmed the "new hardware"
Leaks already reveal the final specifications

People should be wondering why Phil or Sarah haven't confirmed full backward compatibility.
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
I am not saying this is what happened but sure looks like it

Imagine leaving your dream job to go help facilitate a takeover and once completed instead of getting rewarded you are told to get the fuck out

Again, thats what seemed to have happened

Golden Globes Reaction GIF
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It's likely that Phil blamed him for some mess that happened?
He probably said that the plan to buy Activision came from Ybarra? that Ybarra guaranteed it would be "easy," and in the end it took two years to finalize the purchase, they paid fines and had to make concessions.

Because I don't see any reason to burn Ybarra for nothing. Maybe it was Ybarra's plan after all? and he wasn't Phil's scapegoat.
 
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i see they launch marketing to gaslight people into believing that this is not just another pc. i see tons of people perhaps their supporter or bots been spamming this tagline everywhere on twitter.
 
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HeisenbergFX4 said:
I am not saying this is what happened but sure looks like it

Imagine leaving your dream job to go help facilitate a takeover and once completed instead of getting rewarded you are told to get the fuck out

Again, thats what seemed to have happened

Golden Globes Reaction GIF
Click to expand...
Let me guess, he was supposed to take over Phil's role but instead the DEI hire got it.
 
The idea is very interesting. If it's native BC all the way to the original Xbox, that will be pretty awesome. It's got to have a disc drive. Free online play is something I thought they should have already done if they wanted to get the upper hand on Sony. Now, what's the price?
 
Pretty much exiting console biz next gen but they don't want to drop all their current Xbox customer accounts and libraries, so they want to move all these Xbox accounts to windows

So to do that they will come out with a Xbox branded pc and say this is the next gen Xbox, for current Xbox customers as way to trick them into moving their libraries to windows, since the console biz will be gone

Basically their last effort to keep as much as they can while they exit
 
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RetroGamingUK said:
Reasonable question.

Would their PC that comes the generation after the next one still support old console games?
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I highly doubt it. IF the rumor about the next gen device being true in that it is a "hybrid" device in that it has BC with Xbox is hardware based as in it has some built in chip similar to how the launch PS3 had the emotion engine on the board then I think it would be more of a thing to get people to transition to PC.

You give people a easy transition to PC with the machine and hope by the time the next machine comes out (if it even would with the way things are going) that most people have already gotten used to PC.

AJUMP23 said:
Will you just need PC gamepass then?
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KungFucius said:
PC gamepass will go away is my guess. I mean it will have the same tiers as the Xbox PC, Ultimate, and fuckoff.
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Yeah, they would have to get rid of PC game pass I would imagine because otherwise there would be no point in the other tiers if their next console IS a pc.

dolabla said:
The idea is very interesting. If it's native BC all the way to the original Xbox, that will be pretty awesome. It's got to have a disc drive. Free online play is something I thought they should have already done if they wanted to get the upper hand on Sony. Now, what's the price?
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LOL. The chances of their next gen machine having a disc drive is next to none. They already barely make consoles with disc drives now, and this thing is going to be a PC at its heart and disc drives are essentially non existent on PC.

Also free online is a guarantee when it's a PC. Trying to force paid online on PC would be literal suicide.

Price will be over $1000 similar to what leaker have pointed towards. Xbox can't really do much subsidization with this new machine like they could previously.
 
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According to MS and AMD it's a 10 year partnership to make silicone for their devices. Perhaps that is two generations?

I would say one thing for sure though. I would advise anyone on the Xbox eco system to jump ship asap and start buying games on steam if possible.
 
dolabla said:
The idea is very interesting. If it's native BC all the way to the original Xbox, that will be pretty awesome. It's got to have a disc drive. Free online play is something I thought they should have already done if they wanted to get the upper hand on Sony. Now, what's the price?
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There's no native BC for Xbox or 360 now, what makes you think they will invest in it for the next console, when it becomes even less relevant?
 
I honestly think Microsoft won't officially release this console and it will be third party with an Xbox logo like the rog ally. Microsoft has to know this will be a failure at a premium price. The just need to focus on gamepass and push it on as many devices as possible. Makes no sense releasing dead on arrival hardware.
 
laynelane said:
Whether it will only be a feature in the next Xbox hardware iteration or will it continue in future hardware releases after that too. The latter would be the best outcome, but the person in the tweet seems to be saying that's not the case.
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So your library would only be backward compat for 1 more gen? That doesn't make sense
 
laynelane said:
Whether it will only be a feature in the next Xbox hardware iteration or will it continue in future hardware releases after that too. The latter would be the best outcome, but the person in the tweet seems to be saying that's not the case.
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Nobody knows. If it's hardware enabled BC, it will last as long as people have hardware or the whole MS store is discontinued. The absolute worst case scenario is they put this out once and that's it. What that buys you is roughly another 7-8 years or so to get through the whole PS6 gen. At that point, they'll either keep putting out updated hardware or they won't. So you're likely set through 2033. At that point, it might be cloud, it might be no BC. They might keep updating Play Anywhere titles over the next 8 years for BC games. No one knows. Still way better than nothing.
 
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demigod said:


My man Ybarra with the truth bombs.
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He makes a great point about PC's flexibility and how probably at the start of 2026 (if not now) MS will need to keep in place the hardware that Xbox Magnus is, whereas PC hardware will keep going for the next 2 years.

How does this potential $1200 machine keep up?
 
BlueManifest said:
So your library would only be backward compat for 1 more gen? That doesn't make sense
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The rumor is the nextbox will have a chip that allows it to play Xbox games. This chip is not in other PCs and actually would be a weird and wanted tool if it was. Think of the chip as something that Microsoft would never want to make but rather a necessary evil(in their minds). So there is no future where the chip will be given out to everyone, for example. We will probably not be able to build PCs with this chip in the future for example. This is mainly because of licensing issues. It was created by AMD and Microsoft in order to allow current Xbox owners to keep their libraries if they decide to stick with Xbox next gen.

The tweet seemed imply two things.

1. MS' next box won't be universally ungradable like many gaming PCs are so you won't be able to slap in a new gpu
2. The box after the next one(so that would be the gen after next) would not have the chip anymore

So if that is true, which we have no idea atm unless HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 wants to enlighten us. If that is true, then the gen after next would not be able to play Xbox games, only PC games.

You seem to ask "why would MS ever remove the chip"? I think this is a good question but also there is an answer for this it is just very complex and gets into explaining why sometimes lesser used hardware features are not added on future devices once they have aged out, even if they are still used and valued. What you should really ask yourself is this. What incentive does Microsoft have to keep the chip in after the next generation? The makeup of Xbox fandom will likely be a lot different than it is now and I can't imagine they will lose much in 8 years if they removed this the gen after next. I certainly couldn't see in 15 years them still keeping it, so it is probably safer to assume that at some point this chip will go away, than to assume that it will stay forever on all their future hardware.
 
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Punished Miku said:
Nobody knows. If it's hardware enabled BC, it will last as long as people have hardware or the whole MS store is discontinued. The absolute worst case scenario is they put this out once and that's it. What that buys you is roughly another 7-8 years or so to get through the whole PS6 gen. At that point, they'll either keep putting out updated hardware or they won't. So you're likely set through 2033. At that point, it might be cloud, it might be no BC. They might keep updating Play Anywhere titles over the next 8 years for BC games. No one knows. Still way better than nothing.
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The "HW BC" stuff is pretty minimal and mostly amounts to support for things like old Xbox/Xbox 360 texture formats. The partnership with AMD means that this stuff is now part of the standard AMD graphics tech going forward (since MS is just using existing chiplets for their console), so RDNA6/7/8 or w/e AMD calls it will also have "HW BC".
 
KeplerL2 said:
The "HW BC" stuff is pretty minimal and mostly amounts to support for things like old Xbox/Xbox 360 texture formats. The partnership with AMD means that this stuff is now part of the standard AMD graphics tech going forward (since MS is just using existing chiplets for their console), so RDNA6/7/8 or w/e AMD calls it will also have "HW BC".
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So next gen Xbox processors are not some custom job as some have suggested? Another instance of exaggerating "custom" is what it sounds like.
 
KeplerL2 said:
The "HW BC" stuff is pretty minimal and mostly amounts to support for things like old Xbox/Xbox 360 texture formats. The partnership with AMD means that this stuff is now part of the standard AMD graphics tech going forward (since MS is just using existing chiplets for their console), so RDNA6/7/8 or w/e AMD calls it will also have "HW BC".
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It also likely has to do some stuff with Pluton spec being added as Windows TPM 2.0 to AMD, Intel, Qualcomm CPUs. And Magnus CPU SOC possibly containing the Pluton security chip, or the Xbox encrypted certificates added to TPM 2.0, whichever the case Magnus uses.
 
I mean the longer you get away from the bespoke console hardware eras the less you would need hardware implementations for BC.....you'll just be able to brute force it.
 
Topher said:
So next gen Xbox processors are not some custom job as some have suggested? Another instance of exaggerating "custom" is what it sounds like.
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Yup. I actually thought it was more custom than it seems so they tricked me haha.

Hopefully this means amds CPUs or APUs will just include this stuff going forward. That would be pretty cool.
 
DenchDeckard said:
Yup. I actually thought it was more custom than it seems so they tricked me haha.

Hopefully this means amds CPUs or APUs will just include this stuff going forward. That would be pretty cool.
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Not just you. I've read others say as much. Makes sense that these consoles using existing AMD tech, but they are trying to pretend they have this "special sauce" that consoles had before the move to x86 and they really don't. The days of specialized console design are over.
 
All this talk about BC seems rather pointless.
BC with original Xbox or 360 is not much of a selling point and impossible via hardware if they are using generic AMD chips. If emulated it needs a disc drive or it's limited to the same BC the Series has now of whatever titles they have in the store.
It seems like a lot of effort and spent money for a division struggling with profit and for a device that won't sell 5 million units.
 
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Ar¢tos said:
All this talk about BC seems rather pointless.
BC with original Xbox or 360 is not much of a selling point and impossible via hardware if they are using generic AMD chips. If emulated it needs a disc drive or it's limited to the same BC the Series has now of whatever titles they have in the store.
It seems like a lot of effort and spent money for a division struggling with profit and for a device that won't sell 5 million units.
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The whole point in the next "Xbox" being a Windows PC is that it's low effort.
 
Topher said:
So next gen Xbox processors are not some custom job as some have suggested? Another instance of exaggerating "custom" is what it sounds like.
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The Magnus SoC is custom made for Microsoft, but the ATx GMDs are just regular GPU chiplets (apart from the mentioned HW BC stuff like old texture format support).
Tobimacoss said:
It also likely has to do some stuff with Pluton spec being added as Windows TPM 2.0 to AMD, Intel, Qualcomm CPUs. And Magnus CPU SOC possibly containing the Pluton security chip, or the Xbox encrypted certificates added to TPM 2.0, whichever the case Magnus uses.
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All AMD APUs since 2022 use Pluton.
 
Ybarra's main role these days is apparently serving comforting soundbites for Sony fanboys. He's the (very bitter) past and Sarah Bond, Jez Corden and the most powerful consoles in the world are Xbox's future. 🦾👽
 
KeplerL2 said:
The "HW BC" stuff is pretty minimal and mostly amounts to support for things like old Xbox/Xbox 360 texture formats. The partnership with AMD means that this stuff is now part of the standard AMD graphics tech going forward (since MS is just using existing chiplets for their console), so RDNA6/7/8 or w/e AMD calls it will also have "HW BC".
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This is because MS don't actually do any custom design or tweaking of the standard AMD IP. MS design a solution using the provided parts with input from AMD in what will work well given constraints.

Different partnership that MS have with AMD Vs the Sony partnership.
 
bitbydeath said:
The innovative work he's referring to is likely what's already known, the introduction of Windows SDK and removal of the Xbox GDK.
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Ok, prove it. Please provide any source or documentation that says the GDKX, for Xbox Console optimized games is going away let alone the entire GDK.
Det said:
Microsoft has already confirmed the "new hardware"
Leaks already reveal the final specifications

People should be wondering why Phil or Sarah haven't confirmed full backward compatibility.
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Both Sarah Bond and Lisa Su confirmed full (as in current on Series) levels of BC.

news.xbox.com

Xbox and AMD: Advancing the Next Generation of Gaming Together - Xbox Wire

This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. Find out more inside.
news.xbox.com news.xbox.com

KungFucius said:
PC gamepass will go away is my guess. I mean it will have the same tiers as the Xbox PC, Ultimate, and fuckoff.
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Yes, PC Gamepass is reportedly going away next year.



Once Gamepass Premium tier achieves parity with the PC catalog (minus Day 1 games), I suspect they will start the deprecating process. They will probably stop allowing new signups, then let the current subscriber base keep going as long as they gave Recurring Billing ON.

PC Gamepass is currently being de-emphasized, and they stopped mentioning it in the Coming Soon to Gamepass infographic. MS wants Essential, Premium, Ultimate as the universal tiers for the full Xbox ecosystem.
SNG32 said:
I honestly think Microsoft won't officially release this console and it will be third party with an Xbox logo like the rog ally. Microsoft has to know this will be a failure at a premium price. The just need to focus on gamepass and push it on as many devices as possible. Makes no sense releasing dead on arrival hardware.
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They're doing "first party consoles". They're also doing a portfolio of devices.

There can still be a S tier console in the $599 range.
 
Tobimacoss said:
Ok, prove it. Please provide any source or documentation that says the GDKX, for Xbox Console optimized games is going away let alone the entire GDK.
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Check the OP.
This has been said a few times before.

As many of us has come to expect, the next Xbox will indeed run full-bore Windows, with a TV-optimized, console-style experience layered on top.
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This means it's going away in favour of Windows.
 
RetroGamingUK said:
Would their PC that comes the generation after the next one still support old console games?
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For the games not already available in PC they can use emulators for the ones they have license, as they already do in their current consoles.

Tobimacoss said:
Once Gamepass Premium tier achieves parity with the PC catalog (minus Day 1 games), I suspect they will start the deprecating process. They will probably stop allowing new signups, then let the current subscriber base keep going as long as they gave Recurring Billing ON.

PC Gamepass is currently being de-emphasized, and they stopped mentioning it in the Coming Soon to Gamepass infographic. MS wants Essential, Premium, Ultimate as the universal tiers for the full Xbox ecosystem.
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I think their plan is:
  • Essential: Xbox Cloud with ads (no day one games even in the cloud) *
  • Premium: Gamepass PC without MS day one games (just a few indies as day one games from time to time, like PSN) + Xbox Cloud with ads (no day games even in the cloud)
  • Ultimate: the current one, the only one that will have MS day one games + ads free Xbox Cloud
* = Those who got monthly games via Gold/Essential would keep them as long as they continue subscribed

Since GP isn't a profit souce, I think their plan is to periodically keep increasing the price and degrading the service, so users slowly leave GP and go back to focus on buying games and MTX, which is where game publishers and platform holders get most of their profits.
 
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bitbydeath said:
Check the OP.
This has been said a few times before.


This means it's going away in favour of Windows.
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I don't think what the runtime environment is will be sufficient evidence to convince Tobi that the development environment is changing.

Regardless, I don't see the point of keeping GDK alive after this move, unless T Tobimacoss can explain what exactly is the need for it to exist for next gen games going forward. Its existence makes perfect sense until cross gen/Series X is completely phased out, but I would think its days are numbered at the very least.
 
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KeplerL2 said:
The "HW BC" stuff is pretty minimal and mostly amounts to support for things like old Xbox/Xbox 360 texture formats. The partnership with AMD means that this stuff is now part of the standard AMD graphics tech going forward (since MS is just using existing chiplets for their console), so RDNA6/7/8 or w/e AMD calls it will also have "HW BC".
Click to expand...

So in the end I was right: it's pretty much an AMD product with an Xbox sticker

"Custom" my ass...

MS just gave them old code from old consoles and they integrated them in RDNA 5
 
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foamdino said:
This is because MS don't actually do any custom design or tweaking of the standard AMD IP. MS design a solution using the provided parts with input from AMD in what will work well given constraints.

Different partnership that MS have with AMD Vs the Sony partnership.
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The difference is pretty simple:

Sony is an hardware company at its core

MS like the name suggests, is a software company. They suck at hardware
 
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