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[KyoZz]

I knew when I threw that in there, I would get this reply. Yes, you can. I also still have my n64 ram expansion pak and my Sega Saturn ram expansion cart. Let me ask you, when was the last time you changed the OS on your console. Oh shit, Linux on PS3. Maybe it is a console after all...

Nah, it's a PC and the OS will be available on other PCs in the near future.

Yes it's an open platform. No need to go into bad faith terito with your PS3 comparaison

It's an hybrid, a new kind of system. Or please tell me what precisely a console can do that the Steam Machine can't.

I am saying that Valve isn't entering any "wars" with this PC, because it is essentially still a PC that will have the same issues as any other PC.

Not really since everything will be seamless, even the drivers update will be done in background. It's literally plug and play. Like a console.

For example: You buy a newly released gamepad and that gamepad will not be 100% supported by this device because Steam doesn't recognize it properly.

This can't happen on a console because it's been tested to work with the system it releases on, but this is normal for PCs and even more so with an OS like Linux that has spotty to no official manufacturer support, so it relies on Valve adding support for peripherals.

Steam Input?

But even then, an update for your controller will most likely already be available by the time you go home from the shop unless you buy some obscure controller from a totally unknown brand. You'll be fine.

What's my source? I've been there already when I bought the Wolverine v3. Steam recognized it as an Xbox One gamepad, so the screenshot button didn't work for months.

Just getting closer doesn't remove the inherent friction that comes with PC gaming.

Oh yeah the screenshot button didn't work. Totally unplayable for sure.

Unless for very, very minor stuff like this it will be fine for 99% of players. Just like Steam already is.

Software is the easiest tell.

Does it natively play PC Games?
Yes = It's a PC.

I'd say it's more the "plug and play" aspect. Which I saw thrown many times when talking about the differences between PC and consoles.

Now this system is plug and play but with PC features. It's not a console but an hybrid, I think it's fair to think of it that way.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Open platform vs closed platform, but not everyone understands that, so the easiest remains the software as it's already established as to what was built on open vs closed.

What if its sold as a closed platform but can be hacked to be open platform?

 

[reinking]

es it's an open platform. No need to go into bad faith terito with your PS3 comparaison

bad faith? It is an actual example of installing an "other OS" on a console, but I actually posted it for humor.

 

[bitbydeath]

I'd say it's more the "plug and play" aspect. Which I saw thrown many times when talking about the differences between PC and consoles.

Now this system is plug and play but with PC features. It's not a console but an hybrid, I think it's fair to think of it that way.

Hybrid would entail a dual-boot system that allows you to natively play games that are built directly for it.

 

[darrylgorn]

What if its sold as a closed platform but can be hacked to be open platform?

Then it's an iPhone.

 

[bitbydeath]

What if its sold as a closed platform but can be hacked to be open platform?

Can it still play PC games?
If yes = it's a PC.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Can it still play PC games?
If yes = it's a PC.

so given we could run PC games through Linux on the ps3, it wasn't a console

And since we could get windows 98 on an Xbox and run pc games, also not a console?

 

[Topher]

I'm not so sure. People have gotten windows 98 to run on an Xbox and Linux on a ps3.

Like I said above, Sony took away that linux option on PS3 so that emphasizes the difference. No corporation is taking away my options on a PC I own. And I'm not talking about hacking a locked down computer either. These are fringe examples and I'm talking about everyday use.

 

[bitbydeath]

so given we could run PC games through Linux on the ps3, it wasn't a console

And since we could get windows 98 on an Xbox and run pc games, also not a console?

If they were natively run I'd count it as a hybrid.
It required a dual-boot to access?

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Like I said above, Sony took away that linux option on PS3 so that emphasizes the difference. No corporation is taking away my options on a PC I own. And I'm not talking about hacking a locked down computer either. These are fringe examples and I'm talking about everyday use.

But surely you see the problem adopting reasoning that requires you to conclude that the PlayStation 3 was not a console

You don't get to just dismiss examples that don't neatly fit

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

If they were natively run I'd count it as a hybrid.
It required a dual-boot to access?

Not sure how it was done on Xbox but the examples I'm familiar with on ps3 was closer to dual boot, it was actually in an existing partition

If I wiped it and only ran Linux, would it become a PC? Same with the Xbox, if I wiped it and only ran windows would it be a PC?

 

[adamsapple]

It's a PC

That doesn't get the SEO and the clicks tho.

 

[KyoZz]

Hybrid would entail a dual-boot system that allows you to natively play games that are built directly for it.

What? Why? This is way too arbitrary.

Let's take an universal definition (Wikipedia):

"A video game console is an electronic device that outputs a video signal or image to display a video game that can typically be played with a game controller."

This is the definition of a console. Period. nothing hard to get, nothing to twist, it's plain and simple.

Now the approach of Valve makes it an hybrid thanks to the open platform and the integration of Steam. Again nothing complicated.

But you can use it as a console: plug it to your tv, turn the controller on and just play. What's hard to get here for real? Did the definition of a console suddenly changed in the last 10 hours?

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

What? Why? This is way too arbitrary.

Let's take an universal definition (Wikipedia):

"A video game console is an electronic device that outputs a video signal or image to display a video game that can typically be played with a game controller."

This is the definition of a console. Period. nothing hard to get, nothing to twist, it's plain and simple.

Now the approach of Valve makes it an hybrid thanks to the open platform and the integration of Steam. Again nothing complicated.

But you can use it as a console: plug it to your tv, turn the controller on and just play. What's hard to get here for real? Did the definition of a console suddenly changed in the last 10 hours?

This avoids the whole problem they're faced with of having to admit that the PlayStation 3 at best was a hybrid

Some of you guys are proposing definitions of consoles that lead to absurd results

 

[delishcaek]

Oh yeah the screenshot button didn't work. Totally unplayable for sure.

It's not about being unplayable, it's about

"plug and play"

It's not really plug and play when you have to set up your shit before it works, or when things don't work at all. lmao

Try get a Logitech G Pro Headset to work with Blue Voice (the reason you buy this for) on Linux. SteamOS doesn't support that either, because they can't. The software is Windows only. You have to apt install weird ass plugins/software and tinker around to get some form of equalizer on your voice working and it will still lack core features that you have on Windows.

But I get it, if you want to peddle this as a console to your friends and relatives, then by all means do so. I hope you do the same with an AppleTV. Has all the features of a console.

I am simply against calling this anything but a PC, because people who get the impression that this is a "console" may end up regretting the purchase because they expected it to work "like a console".

 

[Topher]

But surely you see the problem adopting reasoning to conclude that the PlayStation 3 was not a console

You don't get to just dismiss examples that don't neatly fit

I do when I set my rationale for determining if a computer is a PC and your example doesn't fit. I said you could erase the computer. You could never do that with with PS3. You could only install Linux as an "other OS" along side the PS3 operating system. You could only ever access that OS by first going into the PS3 OS. That doesn't fit my definition at all.

If you want to argue hacking a computer to remove the barriers that prevented you from erasing it then makes that computer a PC then I can see the logic there, but until you can do that then it isn't a PC. A PC gives you total freedom to do what you want. That has always been the fundamental reason for calling a PC a PC.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Forget console wars, let's bring back the OS wars

Valve is proving that Linux > Windows, even considered strictly for gaming.

Every time they chip away a little further at the PC gaming stranglehold Microsoft has held via its awful Windows OS, I'm happy.

 

[bitbydeath]

Not sure how it was done on Xbox but the examples I'm familiar with on ps3 was closer to dual boot, it was actually in an existing partition

If I wiped it and only ran Linux, would it become a PC? Same with the Xbox, if I wiped it and only ran windows would it be a PC?

If that were possible sure, as it'd then no longer be able to run console games, only PC games.

Both are designed differently, built off different SKU's for their required platform and have different features, settings for example being a lot more detailed on a PC game due to the large amounts of hardware it supports and doesn't directly target.

 

[bitbydeath]

Forget console wars, let's bring back the OS wars

Valve is proving that Linux > Windows, even considered strictly for gaming.

Every time they chip away a little further at the PC gaming stranglehold Microsoft has held via its awful Windows OS, I'm happy.

Indeed. Console wars are dead, long live PC OS wars!

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

I do when I set my rationale for determining if a computer is a PC and your example doesn't fit. I said you could erase the computer. You could never do that with with PS3. You could only install Linux as an "other OS" along side the PS3 operating system. You could only ever access that OS by first going into the PS3 OS. That doesn't fit my definition at all.

If you want to argue hacking a computer to remove the barriers that prevented you from erasing it then makes that computer a PC then I can see the logic there, but until you can do that then it isn't a PC. A PC gives you total freedom to do what you want. That has always been the fundamental reason for calling a PC a PC.

So this thread got me doing some research on the Xbox, and by your definition the Xbox actually isn't a console — you could wipe the drive, flash a new BIOS, and install Linux as the primary OS with no dependency on Microsoft's software. If your definition of "console" leads to calling the original Xbox a PC, it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[bitbydeath]

What? Why? This is way too arbitrary.

Let's take an universal definition (Wikipedia):

"A video game console is an electronic device that outputs a video signal or image to display a video game that can typically be played with a game controller."

This is the definition of a console. Period. nothing hard to get, nothing to twist, it's plain and simple.

Now the approach of Valve makes it an hybrid thanks to the open platform and the integration of Steam. Again nothing complicated.

But you can use it as a console: plug it to your tv, turn the controller on and just play. What's hard to get here for real? Did the definition of a console suddenly changed in the last 10 hours?

Too broad, PC's meet that definition, along with phones, fridges and whatever else.

 

[lastmessiah]

Forget console wars, let's bring back the OS wars

Valve is proving that Linux > Windows, even considered strictly for gaming.

Not really lol. They are literally running a Windows emulator in their "Linux Gaming OS".

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

If that were possible sure, as it'd then no longer be able to run console games, only PC games.

Both are designed differently, built off different SKU's for their required platform and have different features, settings for example being a lot more detailed on a PC game due to the large amounts of hardware it supports and doesn't directly target.

It's possible apparently on the Xbox. We're also continuously learning new shit that we can do to these old consoles so the list might grow.

 

[Parazels]

It's not about being unplayable, it's about

It's not really plug and play when you have to set up your shit before it works, or when things don't work at all. lmao

Try get a Logitech G Pro Headset to work with Blue Voice (the reason you buy this for) on Linux.

You are artificially complicating things to prove your point of view.

Why tweak settings if you can just plug and play?
Why install another OS?
Why connect any crappy third party gamepads if you already have the best one right out of the box?

 

[bitbydeath]

It's possible apparently on the Xbox. We're also continuously learning new shit that we can do to these old consoles so the list might grow.

Agreed. That's why I think it's easier to just use software as it is SKU based. A PC game doesn't work in a console environment natively.

 

[bighugeguns]

GabeCube

 

[Topher]

So this thread got me doing some research on the Xbox, and by your definition the Xbox actually isn't a console — you could wipe the drive, flash a new BIOS, and install Linux as the primary OS with no dependency on Microsoft's software. If your definition of "console" leads to calling the original Xbox a PC, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Just means it could be turned into a PC. That's all.

 

[bitbydeath]

Further on that, I wouldn't call a PlayStation an Xbox or a Sega just because it receives ports from them. PC is no different in that regard.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Not really lol. They are literally running a Windows emulator in their "Linux Gaming OS".

For games that don't have an official linux mode, they're able to automatically translate (proton is more of a translation layer than an emulator) for Linux compatibility and eat Window's lunch. Pretty cool.

Most developers on Windows are actually running a Linux emulation inside it anyway (Windows Subsystem for Linux, Cygwin, etc) or just straight up running Linux Docker containers because so much cutting edge development today -- eg. machine learning / AI -- is built for that world.

Yeah, I think Linux comes out on top in this exchange.

 

[KyoZz]

It's not about being unplayable, it's about

It's not really plug and play when you have to set up your shit before it works, or when things don't work at all. lmao

You have nothing to set up with this Steam Machine. You connect your controller, driver is automatically downloaded and boom you can play. Plug, and play. Now in your worst example the screenshot button didn't work. That sucks but it's far from preventing you to play right?

Try get a Logitech G Pro Headset to work with Blue Voice (the reason you buy this for) on Linux. SteamOS doesn't support that either, because they can't. The software is Windows only. You have to apt install weird ass plugins/software and tinker around to get some form of equalizer on your voice working and it will still lack core features that you have on Windows.

Again a very particular case, and blue voice is just another bloatware let's be real for a second. This will be fine for 99.99% of users.

But I get it, if you want to peddle this as a console

An hybrid.

to your friends and relatives, then by all means do so. I hope you do the same with an AppleTV. Has all the features of a console.

Never owned an Apple thing but whatever, are we entering passive agressive territory now?

I am simply against calling this anything but a PC

Sorry but you do you, I'll do whatever will please me tho.

, because people who get the impression that this is a "console" may end up regretting the purchase because they expected it to work "like a console".

But it will work like a console. That the whole point, have you watched the video presentation?

Too broad, PC's meet that definition, along with phones, fridges and whatever else.

PC are not made only to play games. This Steam Machine is designed with gaming in mind first with a new layer of OS to simplify things the most. But I'm tired of this endless and sterile debate. Call it whatever you want.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Agreed. That's why I think it's easier to just use software as it is SKU based. A PC game doesn't work in a console environment natively.

For me personally it's just difficult to get a definition given how fluid all this technology seems

This is why I tend to adopt a broad definition which it anything I will admit tends to be over inclusive.

Mine would be probably closer to yours and be software based. It's a console as long as you don't mess with it. Once you change the software, it could potentially be a PC.

But having that potential alone doesn't make it a PC

Just means it could be turned into a PC. That's all.

My bad, I thought you were saying that it's a PC as it is because it has the potential to be turned into one

 

[bitbydeath]

PC are not made only to play games. This Steam Machine is designed with gaming in mind first with a new layer of OS to simplify things the most. But I'm tired of this endless and sterile debate. Call it whatever you want.

Your definition doesn't state that?

"A video game console is an electronic device that outputs a video signal or image to display a video game that can typically be played with a game controller."

 

[Topher]

Not really lol. They are literally running a Windows emulator in their "Linux Gaming OS".

No, they are not. Proton is not an emulator. It translates DirectX calls into Vulkan.

 

[lastmessiah]

For games that don't have an official linux mode, they're able to automatically translate (proton is more of a translation layer than an emulator) for Linux compatibility and eat Window's lunch. Pretty cool.

Most developers on Windows are actually running a Linux emulation inside it anyway (Windows Subsystem for Linux, Cygwin, etc) or just straight up running Linux Docker containers because so much cutting edge development today -- eg. machine learning / AI -- is built for that world.

Yeah, I think Linux comes out on top in this exchange.

I am well aware of all of this, I use WSL daily at work. But Windows still has features and driver support that Linux doesn't and was never meant to. And the next Xbox or whatever it is called will likely have a streamlined interface similar to Steam OS but that actually works better, as we've seen in the Ally.

 

[KyoZz]

Your definition doesn't state that?

Yeah, yeah... You don't understand that it's obviously implied? A console is not designed for gaming first...?

Oh well, again if it's the level of reply I get let's just keep it there.

 

[delishcaek]

You have nothing to set up with this Steam Machine.

Steam Input?

Yeah, we are done, because you don't even remember your own arguments.

 

[Kacho]

Is it a console yet?

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah, yeah... You don't understand that it's obviously implied? A console is not designed for gaming first...?

Oh well, again if it's the level of reply I get let's just keep it there.

You said to use that definition and I said it was too broad, now you're tacking on something extra. Lol.

 

[KyoZz]

Yeah, we are done, because you don't even remember your own arguments.

Steam input recognize hundred, no, thousand of different controller without you having to do anything. What's the issue? And yes you can remap your controller and put the A button on a trigger if you want to, how is this a bad thing?

Can we please stop acting stupid? Or maybe you are implying that taking 2 minutes configuring a controller (if needed, which you probably never will) is complicated?

You said to use that definition and I said it was too broad, now you're tacking on something extra. Lol.

Is a console not designed to play games firstly? Because that's what you are implying. It's not precised in the definition because every normal being know this, it's obvious. So stop trying to deflect the discussion and answer.

Holy shit guys the whataboutism is insane.

 

[alphachino]

I think you can only upgrade SSD...

And PS3 was possible to install Linux on it

you can update the ram

 

[bitbydeath]

Is a console not designed to play games firstly? Because that's what you are implying. It's not precised in the definition because every normal being know this, it's obvious. So stop trying to deflect the discussion and answer.

Holy shit guys the whataboutism is insane.

Sure, but while we're amending the definition let's also add that PC games only work on PC's. To think otherwise would be folly.

 

[Zacfoldor]

It's a gaming computer as is a console or any pc! We have so many arguments about semantics.

 

[Dacvak]

Yes it's an open platform. No need to go into bad faith terito with your PS3 comparaison

It's an hybrid, a new kind of system. Or please tell me what precisely a console can do that the Steam Machine can't.


Not really since everything will be seamless, even the drivers update will be done in background. It's literally plug and play. Like a console.


Steam Input?

But even then, an update for your controller will most likely already be available by the time you go home from the shop unless you buy some obscure controller from a totally unknown brand. You'll be fine.


Oh yeah the screenshot button didn't work. Totally unplayable for sure.

Unless for very, very minor stuff like this it will be fine for 99% of players. Just like Steam already is.


I'd say it's more the "plug and play" aspect. Which I saw thrown many times when talking about the differences between PC and consoles.

Now this system is plug and play but with PC features. It's not a console but an hybrid, I think it's fair to think of it that way.

Yeah, we are done, because you don't even remember your own arguments.

Like most things, you're both right, and both wrong.

The current state of Steam OS is remarkably close to a console experience compared to even 5 years ago. But there are still PC "isms" that you might have to deal with, depending on the software.

If you're the type of person who is completely allergic to adjusting any settings or any amount of PC jank, the Steam Machine (or Deck) will not fix that any time soon. But at least the hoops you might have to jump through will be made as seamless and socialized as possible. It'll still be a PC, just like the Steam Deck is, but it's a configuration that thousands of other people have helped to refine. But if there's a workaround that you have to deal with because of the way a game is deployed on PC, there's only so much a community can help with that.

My point is that nothing will ever be as polished and tightened as a console experience on Switch, PlayStation, or Xbox. But the trade off is a more free platform, cheaper prices, and more customization. It's Android vs Apple, and both have their merits.

 

[delishcaek]

Steam input recognize hundred, no, thousand of different controller without you having to do anything. What's the issue? And yes you can remap your controller and put the A button on a trigger if you want to, how is this a bad thing?

Can we please stop acting stupid? Or maybe you are implying that taking 2 minutes configuring a controller (if needed, which you probably never will) is complicated?

I just fucking told you about a problem I had with my Wolverine v3. You played it down by talking about "obscure 3rd party gamepads" and how "the drivers will be there by the time I get home" and "oh just the screenshot button" and it took MONTHS for VALVE to add support. The Wolverine v3, you know... from the very small and obscure company called Razer.

I am not acting stupid, you have been downplaying Linux (and SteamOS) compatibility issues, compatibility issues that do not exist on a console. You act like people don't go out and buy peripherals for their consoles. You act like Linux and SteamOS are 100% compatible with everything, which is factually not true and I don't care if it affects only 5% of all people who use SteamOS, it simply doesn't happen on consoles. That is what makes a console a console, people don't have to worry about "will this work with my thing at home????".

 

[KyoZz]

Sure

Wait, are we finally getting somewhere?!

but

Ah nevermind

while we're amending the definition let's also add that PC games only work on PC's. To think otherwise would be folly.

Which is why I always said, and hold on to your butt, it's an hybrid! Crazy right. I never said it was a PC, or a console. For me it's a new kind of system, an in-between and again I think it's fair to call it an hybrid.

Also just reading the definition again, it's stated in the beginning in fact: a video game console. A video GAME console. GAME.

So yeah:

Your definition doesn't state that?

It did state that.

I just fucking told you about a problem I had with my Wolverine v3.

Yep, the screenshot button. Sorry for not taking you seriously when "unplayable" was in the conversation.

You played it down by talking about "obscure 3rd party gamepads"

Nah you misunderstood, I said that for controller from some obscure brand that nobody's ever heard of. For your problem I said it sucks, but it does not make things unplayable. Focus please.

and how "the drivers will be there by the time I get home" and "oh just the screenshot button" and it took MONTHS for VALVE to add support. The Wolverine v3, you know... from the very small and obscure company called Razer.

I see you where very triggered by not being able to take screenshots with your gamepad. But that doesn't change that for 99% of players it's gonna be fine.

I am not acting stupid, you have been downplaying Linux (and SteamOS) compatibility issues, compatibility issues that do not exist on a console. You act like people don't go out and buy peripherals for their consoles. You act like Linux and SteamOS are 100% compatible with everything, which is factually not true and I don't care if it affects only 5% of all people who use SteamOS, it simply doesn't happen on consoles. That is what makes a console a console, people don't have to worry about "will this work with my thing at home????".

Please, calm down it's gonna be ok. Consoles have other problems too, every system has its strengths and weaknesses.

Btw you can buy an unofficial controller and it might not work on your console too.
But this Steam Machine is doing a big step for simplifying things. That's my point.

And again, again again again, I'm not saying this is a console ffs.

 

[Kacho]

I do agree with what KyoZz is getting at. While I would technically classify it as a PC, calling it just a PC is reductive because it's simplified like a console.

 

[Jesb]

They entered the worst controller competition.

 

[Fess]

Forget console wars, let's bring back the OS wars

Valve is proving that Linux > Windows, even considered strictly for gaming.

Every time they chip away a little further at the PC gaming stranglehold Microsoft has held via its awful Windows OS, I'm happy.

I never tried the old Steam Machines but going by Steam Deck Valve is laser focused on Steam. I want to know how I can access my libraries on GOG, Windows Store/Gamepass, Epic Games Store, etc on this thing. They say it's an open platform so I assume it's not impossible but going by Steam Deck I have some doubts.

SteamOS gaining ground should push Microsoft to improve Windows so no matter what we should all want this thing to succeed.

 

[Dacvak]

Wait, are we finally getting somewhere?!


Ah nevermind


Which is why I always said, and hold on to your butt, it's an hybrid! Crazy right. I never said it was a PC, or a console. For me it's a new kind of system, an in-between and again I think it's fair to call it an hybrid.

Also just reading the definition again, it's stated in the beginning in fact: a video game console. A video GAME console. GAME.

So yeah:

It did state that.


Yep, the screenshot button. Sorry for not taking you seriously when "unplayable" was in the conversation.


Nah you misunderstood, I said that for controller from some obscure brand that nobody's ever heard of. For your problem I said it sucks, but it does not make things unplayable. Focus please.


I see you where very triggered by not being able to take screenshots with your gamepad. But that doesn't change that for 99% of players it's gonna be fine.


Please, calm down it's gonna be ok. Consoles have other problems too, every system has its strengths and weaknesses.

Btw you can buy an unofficial controller and it might not work on your console too.
But this Steam Machine is doing a big step for simplifying things. That's my point.

And again, again again again, I'm not saying this is a console ffs.

Bro, I have no horse in this race, but I gotta say that you're presenting good points in an abrasive way. I imagine that it just inherently makes people want to try and dispute you.

The new Steam Machine is doing some insane work for bringing a console-like experience to PC gaming, for sure. I'm saying this as a person who owns the original 2013 steam machine, comparing it to the experience of the modern Steam Deck. For a lot of people, their threshold for bullshit PC idiosyncrasies will be met, and it'll be a great experience.

But because the experience, by nature, will never be as tight or controlled as a console, it's reasonable that some people will have paranoia about their experience, thinking "will this work the way I want it to?" In some instances, that'll be justified.

Two things are true:
PC gaming (especially Linux using compatibility layers) is not as seamless and turnkey as a console experience.

But also:
Steam OS is and has been a gigantic leap in standardizing the PC experience, offering most of the luxuries consoles have, ever-closing the gap between the two types of platforms.

 

[delishcaek]

Yep, the screenshot button. Sorry for not taking you seriously when "unplayable" was in the conversation.

I see you where very triggered by not being able to take screenshots with your gamepad. But that doesn't change that for 99% of players it's gonna be fine.

I said the button didn't work because it was recognized as an Xbox One Gamepad. I couldn't remap it. No one said anything about taking screenshots (I do that with the standard command "Xbox Button+Right Trigger). If I can't have push to talk on the gamepad then yes, a game can become unplayable for me.

But "unplayable" wasn't really in the conversation before that. It was about compatibility which is (sadly) not guaranteed on SteamOS/Linux.

/edit
What Dacvak is saying is pretty much what I am trying to get at. He says it much nicer than I ever could.