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[Madflavor]

I just miss when most developers were able to put out multiple entries of games within a single console generation. What got me thinking about this was the sort've recent news that Intergalactic won't release in 2026, and may not even release in 2027. Even if it does release in 2027, that's 7 years between TLOU2 and Intergalactic. Will the game look good? Yeah I'm sure it'll look outstanding. But will it good enough to warrant a 7 year wait? Pushing out TLOU3's release way way out, and whatever other games ND could also develop? Fuck no, not to me. We hit a point of dimishing returns with visual fidelity a decade ago, yet it keeps taking longer and longer for these games to come out. I hate waiting 3x longer for slightly better looking graphics.

It took a 2.5 years for Crystal Dynamics to release Rise of the Tomb Raider after Tomb Raider 2013. There was 4 years between The Witcher 2 and The Witcher 3, and Witcher 3 had multiple seperate open worlds!

These are character models from 10 years ago:

I dunno gentleman, looks fine to me. I just don't think the diminishing advancements the industry has made in the past 10 years have been worth the much longer development times. Time is the most precious commodity we have, and we ain't getting any younger. Even setting that aside, I don't know how this is even sustainable at the rate this is going. It's depressing knowing that I used to get new entries from my favorite ips or new games from my favorite devs every 2-3 years, and now I'm pushing 40 and it's turned into 5-8 years.

EDIT: After resting on it and reading some of the comments, I regret not adding on here that the need to also make AAA games bigger and bigger is also a contributing factor to why game development takes so long now. That said I still strongly feel that games were already looking amazing back in the mid 2010s, and the push to make them more detailed just hasn't been worth the extra time it takes to develop them.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Sure and it would also mean my old decade ago PC could still play the game.

I can still play games like Resident Evil 4 Remake and RE Village fine and that's because it's a cross gen game. So other games being like it would also be enough for me to play without buying a new PC.

And while I would like to see a next gen Elder Scrolls VI and Fallout 5. It's still certainty not a deal breaker if their next game goes back to Fallout 4.

 

[RoboFu]

I would rather go back to genesis / snes hardware.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

To me, the premise is incorrect. Devs are taking a lifetime because they are failing at project management, it has no relation to tech, except for a few exceptions that should not be taken as the norm.

The struggles by Crystal Dynamics, Bend or Naughty Dog is due to incompetence.

Also, I'm quite fed up with the graphics conversation. There's room for improvement in many other aspects, from gameplay to worldbuilding/mission structure and those should be in the top priority list.

 

[LectureMaster]

2007 - UC1
2009 - UC2
2011 - UC3
2013 - TLOU
2016 - UC4
2017 - Lost Legacy


Yes, I want that Naughty Dog back, instead of some ultra detailed super polygon counts shaved woman that takes 8 years.

 

[HRK69]

Yes please

I can't believe some on this forum are already begging for the PS6

 

[Punished Miku]

Obsidian put out 2 large Unreal 5 WRPGs this year. Typical team size is 100 or less.

[Edit] And a laugh emoji in seconds. Thats the real answer to your question OP. No they're not fine with it. They think its a joke unless its the most absurdly expensive AAAA top tier stuff. AA games come out all the time and most people ignore them or mock them.

 

[Danjin44]

We many games coming out, so we have enough games to keep us busy.

THE ISSUE here is for some reason they like to announce their games when its faaaaaaaar off, they having NOTHING to show and the actual development havent started yet.

Publishers and devs....PLEASE announce your games when at least 6 month to release.

 

[Arcane0ne]

PS4 level graphics at 2k-4k with more and better physics,interactivity and ai is fine for me.

 

[LectureMaster]

The Order 1886 graphics still rocks to date. Most nowadays games take so long not because the dev were pushing graphics.

rofif had a great thread about it.

Hype  Thread 'LTTP: The Order 1886: Sir Gigachad (56k warning, screenshots)'

Jan 1, 2025

This game was on my shelf at least for 7 years.
Originally released in February of 2015, Order 1886 is a 3rd person shooter game.
It was an epicenter of "game too short" for 60$ controversy and "too cinematic".
So it landed into forever backlog on my shelf until yesterday.
I decided to finish it in 2024. I had 6 hours until 2025... I could squeeze this one bad and short backlog game in right?!
NO! It ended up being 9 hours long, fantastic game with amazing graphics which i cannot believe how they pulled it off in 2015. Easily on the level of tlou2 or uncharted 4 but smaller scale.

I am...

• rofif
• Replies: 169
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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[HRK69]

rofif had a great thread about it.

 

[Danjin44]

The Order 1886 graphics still rocks to date.

At what cost. To me it felt like RAD's entire focus on this game was graphics and nothing else.

 

[Pejo]

Absolutely. 90% of the time, art style trumps visual fidelity for my tastes anyways. Realistic budgets/dev cycles and publishers not going "all-in" on big gaas would revitalize the industry, IMO.

 

[Celcius]

No I want to move forward. CG still looks so much better than games.

 

[Kuranghi]

Obsidian put out 2 large Unreal 5 WRPGs this year. Typical team size is 100 or less.

[Edit] And a laugh emoji in seconds. Thats the real answer to your question OP. No they're not fine with it. They think its a joke unless its the most absurdly expensive AAAA top tier stuff. AA games come out all the time and most people ignore them or mock them.

Its possible that people want AA games and those 2 were subpar games, not the graphics necessarily, but the writing and gameplay.

Both had okay writing and the gameplay/combat of OW2 is derivative of rather old games, nothing new brought to the table.

(I'm sure LectureMaster is also trolling you to get a rise out of you also though, just ignore him and like what you like )

 

[R6Rider]

Easily yes.

 

[Danjin44]

CG still looks so much better than games.

CG will always going to be better because with CG you dont have to worry about game engine running, performance and trying to look good in every angle.

With CG you have full control what your audience will see and what would they not see.

 

[LectureMaster]

At what cost. To me it felt like RAD's entire focus on this game was graphics and nothing else.

It was a decent adventure game where the characters were better written than many nowadays games.
It was over scrutinized during the early PS4 exclusive drought era. It could have been received better.
The pricing was the issue, I feel like it would have benefitted tremendously from a $40 price point, like the Hellblade series.

 

[BlueManifest]

CG will always going to be better because with CG you dont have to worry about game engine running, performance and trying to look good in every angle.

With CG you have full control what your audience will see and what would they not see.

You also don't have to worry how animations work with CG like you do gameplay, not all gameplay can have realistic movement at all times

 

[Justin9mm]

To me, the premise is incorrect. Devs are taking a lifetime because they are failing at project management, it has no relation to tech, except for a few exceptions that should not be taken as the norm.

The struggles by Crystal Dynamics, Bend or Naughty Dog is due to incompetence.

Also, I'm quite fed up with the graphics conversation. There's room for improvement in many other aspects, from gameplay to worldbuilding/mission structure and those should be in the top priority list.

^ This IMO is true, so many examples of incompetent devs and publishers. We have had broken/unfinished released games for many many years now, lacking features etc. The industry has been accepting it for so long.. Do people really think if these companies and projects were managed well, this would be happening? 100% they just need to fucking do better!! The fact OP has made this post is proof that people are accepting this shit and have no clue!

 

[Danjin44]

It was a decent adventure game where the characters were better written than many nowadays games.
It was over scrutinized during the early PS4 exclusive drought era. It could have been received better.

In my opinion for a good reason. this game came out in 2015 same year as Bloodborne and both have same type of setting and both is about hunters hunting monsters.

But only one of these game you were actually fighting monsters while the other you only fighting normal people and twice played mini game with halfbreed.

Bloodborne might not have the tech of Oder 1886 but it was 10000 time better game......this is why graphics dont mean shit if you dont deliver on the actual game.

 

[nkarafo]

I'm not a huge fan of Ray Tracing taking over well placed baked lighting. It's more realistic, yes, but in many instances it makes some areas look boring and flat because realism doesn't care about being artistic.

This is especially true for games that don't even have baked lighting at all to fall back. Don't play The Talos Principle 2 if your GPU can't do Ray Tracing.

 

[LectureMaster]

In my opinion for a good reason. this game came out in 2015 same year as Bloodborne and both have same type of setting and both is about hunters hunting monsters.

But only one of these game you were actually fighting monsters while the other you only fighting normal people and twice played mini game with halfbreed.

Bloodborne might not have the tech of Oder 1886 but it was 10000 time better game......this is why graphics dont mean shit if you dont deliver on the actual game.

I don't disagree with you on the point you brought up, but that's another topic.

The thread is about will you be okay with early PS4 graphics for current gen games and I was making a point that 1886's graphics are more than impressive even to date.

 

[Danjin44]

I don't disagree with you on the point you brought up, but that's another topic.

The thread is about will you be okay with early PS4 graphics for current gen games and I was making a point that 1886's graphics are more than impressive even to date.

Thats my point...Bloodborne from tech perspective is not even high tech not even for PS4 game but the game was god damn gorgeous thanks to masterful art direction while still been great game.

Good aesthetic beats tech any time......ANY TIME.

 

[Haint]

Graphics aren't the reason games take 7 years, it's cause most developers fake work from home now and have no real or enforced deadlines. They went from pre-covid 40-60 hour work weeks with supervisors constantly hovering around their cubicle's and studios being shut down for missed milestones, to now rolling out of bed at noon and spending an hour fiddling with something, then quitting for the day. And the mega publishers largely let them continue to delay out to infinity cause they don't want Jason Schrier writing a hit piece about toxic work culture, crunch, or mass firings.

Metroid Prime 4 is an uprezed texture enhanced Switch 1 game (i.e. predominantly PS360 grade assets) that took 6 year for Retro's portion alone. The problem is zoomer and younger millennial post-covid work culture, not graphics.

 

[Neolombax]

Are graphics the reason why game releases keep taking a long time nowadays? Genuine question, I don't keep up with game development. PS4 graphics aren't bad at all. If it means being able to play at a consistent 60fps without the bells and whistles these days, absolutely. It's art style that matters more for me.

 

[Danjin44]

You also don't have to worry how animations work with CG like you do gameplay, not all gameplay can have realistic movement at all times

Exactly! game needs to feel good to play so yeah animators have to cut animations in order to make game's control to feel responsive.

CG never ever have to worry about that because with movies you are watching not playing.

 

[LectureMaster]

Thats my point...Bloddborne from tech perspective is not even high tech not even for PS4 game but the game was god damn gorgeous thanks to masterful art direction while still been great game.

Good aesthetic beats tech any time......ANY TIME.

Again, I am not against what you claim. But it is just really out of the context of my original post. lol.

 

[Madflavor]

Are graphics the reason why game releases keep taking a long time nowadays? Genuine question, I don't keep up with game development. PS4 graphics aren't bad at all. If it means being able to play at a consistent 60fps without the bells and whistles these days, absolutely. It's art style that matters more for me.

People are mentioning poor management, which there may be a degree of truth to that. I'm more inclined to believe the push for greater and greater graphical fidelity has had a significant impact on development time for big AAA games. It could also be a mix of both for some studios, but I'm not a fly on the wall either.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Since RE2 Remake and RE3 Remake are last gen than PS4 is already good enough.

I'll honestly even be happy with another full blown Fallout game in the Fallout 3/Fallout New Vegas level of graphics.

And I'll also be totally fine with way more old school RE1-RE3, Deep Fear level of graphics for fixed camera horror games.

 

[Danjin44]

Again, I am not against what you claim. But it is just really out of the context of my original post. lol.

In your post you said Oder 1886's graphics good to this day and I said at what cost because to me the cost of achieving that level of graphics was too great in Order 1886.


This why I also mentioned Bloodborne as my example because it came out same year and same type of setting while not having most high tech graphics the game still looked gorgeous without sacrificing the gameplay.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

We many games coming out, so I have enough games to keep us busy.

THE ISSUE here is for some reason they like to announce their games when its faaaaaaaar off, they having NOTHING to show and the actual development havent started yet.

Publishers and devs....PLEASE announce your games when at least 6 month to release.

This, hate it when a game trailer gets me super hyped just to see it a year or more away.

Skyrim was probably one of my favorites with it's release time because the game was revealed in June in that years E3 and gets released by November so that was around 6 months and it was awesome. Shame not too many big games do it anymore.

 

[Sakura]

I don't think the graphics are contributing that much to dev times.
Like if they were to go back to pixel art or something sure, but the leap between PS4 and PS5 isn't that big. A lot of the improvements in graphics isn't coming from dev time, but just more powerful hardware (higher resolution, framerates, draw distance, AA, ray tracing, etc).

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Totally. The games were better then too.

 

[Represent.]

Absolutely fucking not. That may be the worst idea i've ever heard actually. Better graphics equal better immersion for me.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

No

 

[violence]

10 year dev cycles are ok. Devs just need to hire based on diversity and they will be fine.

 

[Danjin44]

This, hate it when a game trailer gets me super hyped just to see it a year or more away.

Skyrim was probably one of my favorites with it's release time because the game was revealed in June in that years E3 and gets released by November so that was around 6 months and it was awesome. Shame not too many big games do it anymore.

And to me this one of the reason why some games feels like its taking forever to come out because when they announce the game the actual game development havent started yet.

 

[The_hunter]

The nintendo strategy.

 

[Magic Carpet]

With memory prices going all wonky, game sizes will need to go back to the days of DVD storage.
2 Disc maximum.

 

[Madflavor]

Absolutely fucking not. That may be the worst idea i've ever heard actually. Better graphics equal better immersion for me.

You were enjoying your hobby just fine before 2020, so what's the problem?

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Absolutely fucking not. That may be the worst idea i've ever heard actually. Better graphics equal better immersion for me.

Then why are obsessed with PlayStation instead of PC gaming?

 

[JayK47]

I am not so sure the graphics are most of the issue with long developments times. Too many consultants, too many cooks in the kitchen, and I also think a lot of the old guys who knew what they were doing were forced out. A bunch of activists not getting anything done all week while collecting a paycheck is bankrupting the industry.

 

[LakeOf9]

Yes please

 

[MayauMiao]

As long as its 60fps at full 1080p.

 

[viveks86]

Rolling back graphics tech won't make the games any faster to make. They need to have smaller teams, reduced scope and better project management. Every damn game is filled to the brim with things to do so that they can have us clock hours and hours of playtime. That's what 100s of people end up working on. Not the character model's facial hair.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

No. You need cutting edge graphics to appreciate my unattractive gender androgynous characters. Plus without gay tracing you can't even see the reflections of rainbows.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Yep. That would be great.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Truth be told, it's probably because today's developers seen to lack the talent of previous generations.

They use to get more out of the hardware than they do today.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

To answer the question on the topic of this thread: i think the fact that everyone is focusing on indy gaming these days is already proof of this happening.

There is only so many AAA games coming out and as gamers with limited preference that is not enough for anyone, unless you are into GaaS games and thus isn't interested in new titles.

And many formerly beloved game studios are basically dead. It's as mentioned elsewhere that a restaurant, no matter how good it was, will not be the same after 30 years. The original people are gone. Same with game studios especially if they were sold to major corps. Those studios are sold because the owner cashed out, the talents are gone.

We are at the stage where game devs were hired who don't play games. There was one anecdotal evidence in Linkedin where a recruter asked if a wanabe game dev play videogames, and the person applying for the job got mad and blocked the recruiter. If that is the state of game dev hiring in the big studios, no wonder things are dire.