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Air Strikes in Caracas

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Baemono said:
That's mostly on Trump's fault for thinking like a Boomer. He did the same in Afghanistan, when he organized negociations with the Talibans directly when talking about withdrawing from there, not involving the Afghanistan government (the Doha agreement). And of course Afghanistan government collapsed, the Talibans went back to power and now women there have almost no rights.

This is a terrible and short-sighted way of doing things.
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The Afghanistan "government" was a make believe illusion, propped up the US occupation, amounting to nothing. The fact that it instantly collapsed the moment the Americans left should be proof enough of that. You probably never want to look into what went on in Afghanistan for 20+ years because it will make your blood boil when you found out just what $4 TRILLION was actually wasted on

Obama was already going to withdraw from Afghanistan but he let his generals convince him not only to stay but even add more forces. This was just one of Obama's foreign policy disasters in addition to the previously mentioned Syria and Libya. In terms of damage done to the world, Obama actually did more damage long term than Bush Jr. and I'm saying a LOT right now

Trump was right to negotiate with the only people who mattered in Afghanistan, the Taliban. And in the end Joe Biden honored the terms of the agreement and left even though he could have pulled an Obama 2.0 and condemned the US to another 20 years and another $4 TRILLION wasted because he knew Trump was right to want to withdraw
 
Madonis said:
I dunno...for someone who you say is good at rage-baiting, he sure is the world's largest, angriest baby when it comes to whining about the 2020 election and January 6.

Incidentally, happy January 6 day to all those who want to celebrate (if there's any need to celebrate attempted coups by angry people wearing red hats).

In other, less off-topic news...interesting legal analysis of various aspects of the whole Venezuela debacle to date:

Click to expand...

I want to watch it but the Soynail of the video made me feel otherwise
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
He needs to move off Greenland if they are not interested, we can't do that by force

Side note, though I am sure the vast majority know this here, the actual size of Greenland is much smaller than what maps portray it, called the Mercator projection

GdyVjXDO1OEe12HK.png
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No, NO!! I refuse to believe that Greenland isn't larger than south America!
 
Hero of Spielberg said:
Also doesn't the 'negotiation tactic' not work when you tell the people you're negotiating with that your threat is just a negotiation tactic?
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The thing is that it is not off the table. That's the whole point.

With all this talk about "allies"...How much of the allies they are? Covering behind EU they are applying tariffs on the american goods, tax and fine american companies, do not pay security dues, trade with Russia while being in the alliance against Russia, bark and hide behind USA when they feel threatened (especially some Baltic states), constantly are trying to sabotage the settlements in Ukraine etc.

Literally they threat USA no differrent from China, despite USA providing them with a bunch of perks. All while China is supporting Russia. And they also constantly berate USA for doing or not doing this or that.

As I mentioned earlier Europe literally a "strong and independent woman" who lives in a man's house.
 
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Afghanistan was always reverting to Taliban control once the US left. It's just unfortunate the withdrawal was conducted by the most incompetent administration in US history.
 
Helicopters and AC-130J gunships were deployed on the tanker mission. Seems we were prepared for serious combat.

 
ChuckeRearmed said:
The thing is that it is not off the table. That's the whole point.

With all this talk about "allies"...How much of the allies they are? Covering behind EU they are applying tariffs on the american goods, tax and fine american companies, do not pay security dues, trade with Russia while being in the alliance against Russia, bark and hide behind USA when they feel threatened (especially some Baltic states), constantly are trying to sabotage the settlements in Ukraine etc.

Literally they threat USA no differrent from China, despite USA providing them with a bunch of perks. All while China is supporting Russia. And they also constantly berate USA for doing or not doing this or that.

As I mentioned earlier Europe literally a "strong and independent woman" who lives in a man's house.
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Pretty much, yeah.
 
Baemono said:
But Denmark and Greenland both said "no" like 17 times over the last year. Is that a real-estate broker tactic ?
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The Danes are being complete retards here. Someone threatens to take your territory you immediately flood it with troops, equipment and air defence. Doesn't matter if the other side is vastly more powerful, you send a message and use all your leverage elsewhere.

These clowns in Europe still haven't realised the world is changing.
 
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ChuckeRearmed said:
The thing is that it is not off the table. That's the whole point.

With all this talk about "allies"...How much of the allies they are? Covering behind EU they are applying tariffs on the american goods, tax and fine american companies, do not pay security dues, trade with Russia while being in the alliance against Russia, bark and hide behind USA when they feel threatened (especially some Baltic states), constantly are trying to sabotage the settlements in Ukraine etc.

Literally they threat USA no differrent from China, despite USA providing them with a bunch of perks. All while China is supporting Russia. And they also constantly berate USA for doing or not doing this or that.

As I mentioned earlier Europe literally a "strong and independent woman" who lives in a man's house.
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This world view/opinion on Europe does sadden me a little. Its almost as if the paranoia that trump emanates has been internalised into the political identify of the USA (Russia/China.. and now Europe – the 'everyone's out to get us' mindset, so we need to strongarm our way to get what we want).

What happened to the America of old eh?

I know there are issues that need to be sorted out (with Nato for e.g.), however this isn't the best way to go about it I'm sure. Post-WW2, the West and beyond has (largely successfully) been built on geo-political partnerships. Regressing into national silos with Imperialist machinations feels like such a step backwards.
 
P:axMagellanic said:
The Danes are being complete retards here. Someone threatens to take your territory you immediately flood it with troops, equipment and air defence. Doesn't matter if the other side is vastly more powerful, you send a message and use all your leverage elsewhere.
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Danes are not willing to die to prevent Greenland from having Starbucks.
 
I'm sure Medvedev will incoherently make nuclear threats again over this ship. Making nuclear threats appears to be that senile old man's favorite hobby.
 
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EviLore said:
Danes are not willing to die to prevent Greenland from having Starbucks.
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They were willing to fight and die for us in Afghanistan and later in Iraq. One of the few European nations to back us with troops on the ground. These are not your typical european pussies.

it's sad how we treat people who gave their lives to defend us.
 
I really am confused by Trump's moves.
I though he loved Putin, why is he killing his oil business? Or is he doing all this for Putin?
 
StabbyStabStabStabStab said:
What happened to the America of old eh?
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The one that propped up european welfare? lol The only reason EU had any kind of respect worldwide is due to USA. And the only reason Russia never bothered to attack Europe is due to USA. Not due to a potential deployment of German troops.

After the USSR collapse the international institutions like UN and groups like EU has become political blocks instead of the economic one. All while expecting the same treatment from USA as before. The international law was created by USA and USSR.

Bark said:
I though he loved Putin, why is he killing his oil business? Or is he doing all this for Putin?
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Trump is just conduction business. Love or hate, it is irrelevant for the businessman. USA has close to 0 trade with Russia. That's why he is trying to find a way to pull out from the Ukrainian war because it is the European war and USA is doing european bidding there. Hell, even their "coalition of willing" is talking about deploying troops only with american security guarantees. They literally want to put their troops and ask USA to protect them. All while USA has no reason to be even involved there as Turkey is even closer.
 
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Bark said:
I really am confused by Trump's moves.
I though he loved Putin, why is he killing his oil business? Or is he doing all this for Putin?
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His shit with Greenland is retarded, but re-instating the Monroe doctrine and preventing Russia/China/Iran from fucking about in the Americas is something we should have never stopped doing and we need to do more of.
 
SlimySnake said:
They were willing to fight and die for us in Afghanistan and later in Iraq. One of the few European nations to back us with troops on the ground. These are not your typical european pussies.

it's sad how we treat people who gave their lives to defend us.
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Denmark's a great place, great people. One of the best countries in Europe. And I agree that we shouldn't be treating them as enemies.
 
SlimySnake said:
They were willing to fight and die for us in Afghanistan and later in Iraq. One of the few European nations to back us with troops on the ground. These are not your typical european pussies.

it's sad how we treat people who gave their lives to defend us.
Click to expand...

The US thinks its untouchable, just like all 'Empires' before it.

...but all those previously 'untouchable' Empires are gone.
 
StabbyStabStabStabStab said:
This world view/opinion on Europe does sadden me a little. Its almost as if the paranoia that trump emanates has been internalised into the political identify of the USA (Russia/China.. and now Europe – the 'everyone's out to get us' mindset, so we need to strongarm our way to get what we want).

What happened to the America of old eh?

I know there are issues that need to be sorted out (with Nato for e.g.), however this isn't the best way to go about it I'm sure. Post-WW2, the West and beyond has (largely successfully) been built on geo-political partnerships. Regressing into national silos with Imperialist machinations feels like such a step backwards.
Click to expand...
America of old is the reason for Central America being such a shithole right now. Back then though they used CIA to do covert ops to overthrow governments, install puppet dictators, and cause all kinds of chaos that has ultimately resulted in a region so volatile that everyone flees and comes to the U.S anyway.

It's a shame that none of this shit is taught in schools.

en.wikipedia.org

United States involvement in regime change in Latin America - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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IDKFA said:
I think Trump is having a mental breakdown. How else can you explain this insane foreign policy?
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It's the same thing he ALWAYS does.

Make some outrageous demand. Threaten to "take it from you anyway, you get nothing."

Other side acts panicked, settles on "ok, how about some increased bases and oil right options?"

Trump walks away with exactly what he wanted in the first place.

It's negotiating 101. If he starts with his end state in mind, he can only lose ground or have to offer too many other concessions because the other side has to 'win' a bit as well. He he does a massive overreach with full intent to settle in the middle.

They know the Arctic is gonna go ice free (enough at least, for trade/mining) eventually, so SOMEONE is gonna sit on greenland and control a lot of that space. Waaaaay better for the US if it is the US instead of some rinky dink EU nation or the Chinese or Canada or whatever.
 
jason10mm said:
It's the same thing he ALWAYS does.

Make some outrageous demand. Threaten to "take it from you anyway, you get nothing."

Other side acts panicked, settles on "ok, how about some increased bases and oil right options?"

Trump walks away with exactly what he wanted in the first place.

It's negotiating 101. If he starts with his end state in mind, he can only lose ground or have to offer too many other concessions because the other side has to 'win' a bit as well. He he does a massive overreach with full intent to settle in the middle.

They know the Arctic is gonna go ice free (enough at least, for trade/mining) eventually, so SOMEONE is gonna sit on greenland and control a lot of that space. Waaaaay better for the US if it is the US instead of some rinky dink EU nation or the Chinese or Canada or whatever.
Click to expand...

Pretty much why I say I put little stock in what Trump says. He always has an angle. Europe freaking out right now is playing into that.
 
SlimySnake said:
America of old is the reason for Central America being such a shithole right now. Back then though they used CIA to do covert ops to overthrow governments, install puppet dictators, and cause all kinds of chaos that has ultimately resulted in a region so volatile that everyone frees and comes to the U.S anyway.

It's a shame that none of this shit is taught in schools.

en.wikipedia.org

United States involvement in regime change in Latin America - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Yes the history of political interference it is all a little tragic (Robert Parry was a good one for covering that I found). I guess it won't be taught in America, just like we're never taught about the Boer war in the UK (or any other war or take on the British Empire that cannot be glossed over/ romanticised). Sad really :lollipop_weary:
 
Topher said:
Pretty much why I say I put little stock in what Trump says. He always has an angle. Europe freaking out right now is playing into that.
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At this point I can only assume the flamboyant reaction to anything Trump says is just posturing, surely all the policy makers understand his MO now. I gotta think its almost orchestrated, the deals are inked and its just theater for the rest of us so no one is seen as just completely capitulating to Trump. Certainly some stuff (like the tariffs and maybe "turn Gaza into a US tourist resort") were probably pushed much harder and faster by Trump just to get something actually going but most of this stuff simply must be basically marketing of a deal already done.
 
jason10mm said:
At this point I can only assume the flamboyant reaction to anything Trump says is just posturing, surely all the policy makers understand his MO now. I gotta think its almost orchestrated, the deals are inked and its just theater for the rest of us so no one is seen as just completely capitulating to Trump. Certainly some stuff (like the tariffs and maybe "turn Gaza into a US tourist resort") were probably pushed much harder and faster by Trump just to get something actually going but most of this stuff simply must be basically marketing of a deal already done.
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Gaza story is not over yet, but soon it will be. Especially if the upcoming Iran offensive and Lebanon offensive will bring the expected results. Trump usually listens to various groups and then makes a decision. That's what makes his foreign policy kinda effective - and not effective domestic policy because locally he does not have that much powers. Like he can write EO and the Congress just does not pass the resolution or the governors ignore it. He can't send troops into cities without a reason due to judges throwing injuctions and so on. If he was a king, I think the domestic policy would be in a completely different state.

He is also less concerned how he looks for the people whom he doesn't give a shit about (like who cares what country X thinks of him) so he is able to make various decisions if it pushes his agenda, even if they would not be done by others. Europe and other countries have been talking about "standing up against Maduro" for years but nobody wanted to do anything "because reasons". Release a statement and pat each other back. Trump went and kidnapped Maduro. It won't change anything in Venezuela, but he did not even need to pretend why he was doing that.
 
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