So The Witcher 2's graphics aren't impressive because people own high end PCs? You're judging graphics on how hard they are to run, not the actual visual quality?
What will next gen graphics look like?
- Thread starter Shadow of the BEAST
- Start date
So The Witcher 2's graphics aren't impressive because people own high end PCs? You're judging graphics on how hard they are to run, not the actual visual quality?
Lol, no. You cant have bigger jump than PSX->PS2 and even PS2->PS3.
In terms of pure power, yes it will be bigger jump, in terms of technological jump, no it wont.
And as i said, You still have games like Metro, Stalker, Arma, X: Reunion, Cryostasis, Total War: Shogun that push PC hardware.
ii Stryker
Banned
AI needs to vastly improve next gen. Who cares if the IQ is much better if the characters you interact with are still fucking retards.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
well, if you're going to take that position we could argue that the development and use of tessellation was severly hampared by Nvidia and it's inability to produce a dedicated hardware tessellator. Something the 360 has used in several first party games.
halo wars, viva pinata, forza off of the top of my head.
the problem with IQ and fedelity is that it has diminishing returns to the effect on visuals.
Subdivision of surfaces
resolution of textures
effect of aa
fps
etc.
These things hit a ceiling eventually. It's easy to notice a frame rate difference between 12-24, it's harder to notice the difference betweem 30-60. If we subdevide a ball 3000 times it's not going to be as impactful then if we subdevide it 500 times.
Still Xbox was running Doom 3 like a boss three years after release when it shouldnt even start on a celeron and 64MB memory
grap3fruitman
Banned
I can't believe the amount of people expecting 1080p, 60FPS, 4x AA and all this other jazz out of the next gen. We can barely get 720p and 60FPS on current gen systems and the kind of PCs required to run games at the specs people are expecting are well over a grand. I don't know of a thread where :lol would be more appropriate a response.
It's still only 720p and has tons of jaggies. That's still what I'm expecting out of next gen and why I'd rather the systems come later rather than sooner just so we do have a bigger jump between systems.
shouldn't it be already here on them 16 core 32gb pc master race
and?
Chuck Norris
Banned
Sorry which of those is the PC exclusive?
Billychu said:
Who the hell said they aren't impressive? They are amongst the best looking in the market. Nobody is denying that. What I'm saying though is that despite them being the best looking in the market, I suspect PC graphics could still be pushed MUCH further than the Witcher 2 if there were a developer to take advantage of it.
CDProjekt have never been renowned as a top visuals developer, and the fact that the 360 version looks so close indicates its not pushing PC hardware as much as possible. A lot of Witcher 2's quality visuals come from great art design too.
that has less to do with hardware and more to do with programming.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Look out your window and imagine it a bit browner in colour, that's next gen.
Because You cant think straight. Current hardware is 6/7 years old and will be 8/9 when next-gen arrive. PC cost around grand [actually less], but contain more than console needs and thats for retail price.
To render something on current mid-end GPU in 1080p You need like 25%-35% more performance than in 720p, if You think that new GPUs will be slower than 1.5 Xenos/RSX, You're completely clueless.
For my love of gaming i really hope this doesn't count as a generational leap
http://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/gallery/witcher-2-xbox-360-vs-pc-screenshot-comparison/1.jpg
http://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/gallery/witcher-2-xbox-360-vs-pc-screenshot-comparison/2.jpg
angular graphics
Banned
The two versions were not even comparable, the PC version on Ultra was using textures requiring 512mb graphics cards that weren't even AVAILABLE yet, and the xbox had textures that fit in 64mb, a MASSIVE downgrade :lol Sure, the basic look was there but running like a boss :lol
Chuck Norris
Banned
Uh huh. This is a generational difference?
Maybe a Gamecube to Wii generational difference. I've seen larger differences between PS3 and 360 multiplats in the past.
Its really besides the point though. So you don't agree that if a developer like Crytek were making dedicated PC exclusives that they would be pushing graphics much further than Witcher 2?
Does it blow your mind to know I think uncharted 3 is wholly unimpressive ? Console games resort to obvious parlor tricks to get their games to look like uncharted does. Next gen uncharted could actually have real gameplay in at AND those visuals.
Chuck Norris
Banned
What are those parlour tricks again?
Uh huh. This is a generational difference?
All I know is one of those screens looks like shit.
Shtof
Member
Screenshots would be fine.
What do you mean by real gameplay? Please explain further.
LightOfTruth
Member
Yeah and there's no reason to believe that the focus on graphics next-gen is going to be as big as current gen, in fact there's every reason to believe that it won't be.
You won't be seeing a 699 ps4 that's for damn sure. Even 499 might be a stretch and even than a chunk of that cost is going into motion controls. I don't think its realistic to expect a big of a leap from ps3 to ps4 as from ps2 to ps3. That's just my prediction.
Shtof
Member
Really? Which one, if I may ask?
Resolution, framerate and AA most certainly aren't free nor should they be overlooked in a comparison. A 720p 2-4xAA 30fps game might look similar to a 1080p (or higher), 16xAA, 60fps game when both are viewed as static images at 640p, but there's a pretty big difference in motion at the native resolutions.
The lower texture resolution of TW2 on consoles is pretty noticeable in close ups (dialogs/cut scenes).
If you really want to be fair, you'd upscale the console shots to 1080p, and then see if you can notice the difference, rather than use a horrendously compressed images.
Show me textures that look like that on the 360, and then we can talk.
Not a 360 game, but still...
Chuck Norris
Banned
You could be right. A lot of PS3's price was inflated by Blu Ray and other factors though. I think 360 is a more accurate representation of an achievable price range as it launched at $299 - $399 IIRC
Lol.
Whatever it is or isn't, still looks amazing. Certainly beyond the point of necessary detail.
ii Stryker
Banned
Not if you're taking into consideration the memory restrictions we're currently under with consoles carrying over into next gen if the visuals take priority.
I do see what you're saying though. Most all developers choose to make something really pretty instead of putting as much effort behind creating compelling and intelligent AI.
Shtof
Member
This is entirely correct. Just look at Rage running on a 360. It's quite an achievement for a box that launched in 2005 at $299.
Broder Salsa
Banned
It doesn't look like shit but the textures are not really even close.
4K resolution at 2fps, but omg moving screenshots!!!
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Not a 360 game, but still...
Detail mapping is not the same as high-resolution textures -_-'
Shtof
Member
Because it is/was a PC exclusive, and they think the developers are utilizing the full power of the PC. Kind of the same with PS3 exclusives.
Damn, it was 399-499 in Canada. What a rip-off heh.
I'm predicting $299-$399 again for the next xbox, heck maybe even 199-299, but kinect of course is going to be a chunk of that.
Finaika
Member
Plenty eh.
No need for PC goggles, those textures are at a very low resolution, at least for modern day standards,
And I see tessellation mentioned a few times, but unless tessellators improve a lot, it will not be used a lot (single models/gimmicky stuff, no levels based around the use of ..)
liquidspeed
Member
why not 399 and 449?
ps3 and 360 showed that consoles will sell at 399; at least the first 10 million, and then there could be price drops to 299 and 349 ( assuming 2 models)
ps3 and 360 showed that consoles will sell at 399; at least the first 10 million, and then there could be price drops to 299 and 349 ( assuming 2 models)
Sonys first party alone has me salivating at the thought of next gen consoles. Not so much making the games prettier but rather the technical advantages. GOW 3 for example was not a solid 60fps and it seems like Santa Monica really pushed for it, something which should be fixed with the PS4. GT5 also has issues which were technical like tearing and framerate drops, anything below 60fps in racing games in criminal so again hope that will be fixed with PS4.
The next generation of consoles will of course look better than the likes of BF3 on PC, it all has to do with the effort put into the games. Sony first party for example are paid to make games on only one platform, they will push the system but with PC games the devs have to think about so many variables. BF3 and Witcher 2 are so meh in looks though, bring up something better like Crysis 2.
The next generation of consoles will of course look better than the likes of BF3 on PC, it all has to do with the effort put into the games. Sony first party for example are paid to make games on only one platform, they will push the system but with PC games the devs have to think about so many variables. BF3 and Witcher 2 are so meh in looks though, bring up something better like Crysis 2.
I've no idea how this shit works but RAM has a lot to do with how good the games end up looking right? Seeing as the PS4 will probably be double the RAM PS3 has the games will look a little or a lot better? :/
Baller. PhD
Banned
Anyone expecting a "generational gap" as we've had in the past is going to be sorely disappointed. Diminishing returns and all that. Welcome to 2011.
Modern consoles essentially use scaled-down PC hardware, there's no mystery to what is or isn't possible at this stage of the industry. Considering that we'll never again see a $599 console from the major players, there simply isn't enough juice to cram in a TV set-top box and still make a profit.
Next-gen consoles might be able to output Witcher 2/BF3 graphics at 1080p 60fps, but anything more than that and we're back at 720p/30fps. Which is what will happen.
Modern consoles essentially use scaled-down PC hardware, there's no mystery to what is or isn't possible at this stage of the industry. Considering that we'll never again see a $599 console from the major players, there simply isn't enough juice to cram in a TV set-top box and still make a profit.
Next-gen consoles might be able to output Witcher 2/BF3 graphics at 1080p 60fps, but anything more than that and we're back at 720p/30fps. Which is what will happen.
I'll tell you as a programmer there is no such thing as perfect ai. You can simulate a character doing actions close to reality but a perfect ai would assume the character has its own actions and motives something not possible.
Also there's no real defination to the best ai in a game. If an ai is perfect, you wouldn't be able to beat it because it'll beat you every time. A perfect ai should technically see you from miles away and pull a headshot on you. Fear is considered to have good ai but what it really boils down to is FUN ai. Genius enemies < Fun enmies.
Ai has nothing to do with how much code you put. Crysis ai was probably the most complicated but it doesn't mean its the best by any means.
I just looked a few pages back and saw some pretty good screens actually. People keep posting screens like the ones on this page, which don't impress me. Some of the others on past pages impress me a lot.
I'll eat half my words.
Depends what rumors are right about when the new consoles are actually out.
Wii U will end up being to the 360 what the wii was to the gamecube. Not a big difference really, perhaps slightly better framerates or slightly higher resolutions.
Xbox 1080/PS4 or whatever they end up being called , if they came out near the end of 2012 you'd see a difference similar to the xbox -> 360 I think, that is all the games on xbox back in the day that were struggling to run at 30fps and stuck at SDTV resolutions of 480P (possibly widescreen) were able to easily run at 60 fps at 720p with slightly improved textures and of course better special effects. Likewise, the next consoles should be able to handle the 720p/sub 720p stuff like for example the unreal 3 engine at 60fps @ 1080p with more AA and a few more bells and whistles thrown in special effects wise. Made from the ground up new stuff will probably be closely reflected by the current crop of maxed out pc games. Unfortunately I still don't expect to see 60fps used as a standard , so for example, I would not be suprised at a launch window Next box edition of crysis extreme being available that had crysis, warhead, crysis 2 and a new multiplayer suite with all of it running the equivalent of direct X 10/11 modes all the bells and wistles cranked up @ 1080p but still stuck at 30 fps , I mean even PC's with all their horse power choke on those games when cranked to the nuts (unless you have a tri sli 580 setup).
Basically I'm not setting my hopes too high, even if the other rumors are more accurate, the older ones saying- 2013 is when the next consoles are out- I don't think there'd be a huge difference from 2012 to 2013 outside of the systems being a bit cheaper to build and less prone to failure.
Wii U will end up being to the 360 what the wii was to the gamecube. Not a big difference really, perhaps slightly better framerates or slightly higher resolutions.
Xbox 1080/PS4 or whatever they end up being called , if they came out near the end of 2012 you'd see a difference similar to the xbox -> 360 I think, that is all the games on xbox back in the day that were struggling to run at 30fps and stuck at SDTV resolutions of 480P (possibly widescreen) were able to easily run at 60 fps at 720p with slightly improved textures and of course better special effects. Likewise, the next consoles should be able to handle the 720p/sub 720p stuff like for example the unreal 3 engine at 60fps @ 1080p with more AA and a few more bells and whistles thrown in special effects wise. Made from the ground up new stuff will probably be closely reflected by the current crop of maxed out pc games. Unfortunately I still don't expect to see 60fps used as a standard , so for example, I would not be suprised at a launch window Next box edition of crysis extreme being available that had crysis, warhead, crysis 2 and a new multiplayer suite with all of it running the equivalent of direct X 10/11 modes all the bells and wistles cranked up @ 1080p but still stuck at 30 fps , I mean even PC's with all their horse power choke on those games when cranked to the nuts (unless you have a tri sli 580 setup).
Basically I'm not setting my hopes too high, even if the other rumors are more accurate, the older ones saying- 2013 is when the next consoles are out- I don't think there'd be a huge difference from 2012 to 2013 outside of the systems being a bit cheaper to build and less prone to failure.
Whichever one is not the superior Master Race version.
I stopped reading at the first page because it seems as though this thread is for people with vision problems...
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