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[MDX]

Of course they're under NDA.
Even games we KNOW are hitting the system (like Darksiders 2) didn't have the Wii U logo on them.
Nintendo is keeping everything close to the chest until E3.

That, due to

1. Nintendo might be changing the name of WiiU to something else.

2. Nintendo might not want to associate PS360 games with the WiiU as to not make people think it is in the same ballpark as the PS360 in terms of power, etc.

3. Nintendo wants third parties to have commercials promoting the use of the tablet controller.

4. Nintendo is doomed, and will be going third party.

 

[magash]

I think Nintendo's problem is that they actively distance themselves from the competition and third parties with both their games and marketing strategy. At the VGA's a bunch of multiplatform titles were announced, none are for Wii U. Since E3 not a single third party developer has given their support for the system. Now this might be an NDA that's into place but it's stupid because right now it looks like Wii U, much like the Wii, won't get all the games.

The gaming industry (3rd parties) can not and I repeat can not afford to not support the WiiU. It is a matter of survival for them to support the new Nintendo console.

According to the CEO of Ubisoft they expect the cost of development next gen to be in the neighborhood of around $60 Million (keep in mind that developing for the xbox360 and ps3 is around $20-$30 million). So in short the third party developers either support the WiiU or die

 

[[Nintex]]

The gaming industry (3rd parties) can not and I repeat can not afford to not support the WiiU. It is a matter of survival for them to support the new Nintendo console.

According to the CEO of Ubisoft they expect the cost of development next gen to be in the neighborhood of around $60 Million (keep in mind that developing for the xbox360 and ps3 is around $20-$30 million). So in short the third party developers either support the WiiU or die

In Ubi's case I expect Facebook and iOS will fund the next-gen push like Wii and DS funded the Xbox 360/PS3 push. I also expect Nintendo to get most of the multiplats but they're terrible in getting any message about the system out there. If MS has more than some specs and a logo at CES they're truely fucked and Mattrick might as well hijack that next-gen train all the way untill fall 2012.

Nintendo could've for example showed a Smash Bros. CG trailer at the VGA's and coming in 2013 or something to get the masses excited again.

 

[Übermatik]

The gaming industry (3rd parties) can not and I repeat can not afford to not support the WiiU. It is a matter of survival for them to support the new Nintendo console.

According to the CEO of Ubisoft they expect the cost of development next gen to be in the neighborhood of around $60 Million (keep in mind that developing for the xbox360 and ps3 is around $20-$30 million). So in short the third party developers either support the WiiU or die

Making a multi-platform port of a 'last-gen' title doesn't cost a lot.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

I doubt we'll see any Wii U news before E3, honestly.

Same here

 

[AceBandage]

In Ubi's case I expect Facebook and iOS will fund the next-gen push like Wii and DS funded the Xbox 360/PS3 push. I also expect Nintendo to get most of the multiplats but they're terrible in getting any message about the system out there. If MS has more than some specs and a logo at CES they're truely fucked and Mattrick might as well hijack that next-gen train all the way untill fall 2012.

Why do they need to get any sort of message out about the system nearly a year out?
The entire industry already knows it exists and that it's in a very playable state.

 

[lwilliams3]

Brain Stew's original 1.75GB seems more likely to me.
We shall see. Or, actually, we won't, but you know what I mean.

When did he said this? Can you link it?

It won't be possible due to something something excuse. If they can't come up with a technical reason, how about some other excuses ?

I got a good excuse: 'The audience isn't there.'

Not good enough ? How about: 'We'd love to do a Wii U version, but it wouldn't make sense if it's just the same game.'

I don't believe Epic is as anal to Nintendo that some are making them. Their biggest problem with Nintendo before is that their systems couldn't properly run their current engine.

I think Nintendo's problem is that they actively distance themselves from the competition and third parties with both their games and marketing strategy. At the VGA's a bunch of multiplatform titles were announced, none are for Wii U. Since E3 not a single third party developer has given their support for the system. Now this might be an NDA that's into place but it's stupid because right now it looks like Wii U, much like the Wii, won't get all the games.

This is Nintendo, and competition is fierce. I'm sure alot of NDAs are still enforced.

 

[[Nintex]]

Why do they need to get any sort of message out about the system nearly a year out?
The entire industry already knows it exists and that it's in a very playable state.

Because they blew the first reveal and have since bunkered down. Remember that Massive Damage and $599 have still not dissapeared from our collective minds.

 

[BurntPork]

Of course they're under NDA.
Even games we KNOW are hitting the system (like Darksiders 2) didn't have the Wii U logo on them.
Nintendo is keeping everything close to the chest until E3.

If Nintendo is dumb enough to show a console and then say nothing for a full year, someone needs to be fired. We WILL see something before E3. If they wait until E3, they'll show after XBox 3 and Wii U will be stillborn on the core side.

 

[magash]

In Ubi's case I expect Facebook and iOS will fund the next-gen push like Wii and DS funded the Xbox 360/PS3 push. I also expect Nintendo to get most of the multiplats but they're terrible in getting any message about the system out there. If MS has more than some specs and a logo at CES they're truely fucked and Mattrick might as well hijack that next-gen train all the way untill fall 2012.

Nintendo could've for example showed a Smash Bros. CG trailer at the VGA's and coming in 2013 or something to get the masses excited again.

So basically what you want is a repeat of the Killzone 2 unveiling fiasco.

Hype is practically meaningless if you do not have the software to showcase the capabilities of your new system.

 

[AceBandage]

Ugh, the doom and glooming from you two (Nintex and BP) is unbearable...
When the systems launch, no one is going to give a shit that they revealed the Loop at CES and Nintendo showed nothing.

When did he said this? Can you link it?

I forget what thread it was in, give me a while.

 

[Shanadeus]

POWER7, unlike Broadway, has an excellent embedded DDR3 memory controller. It most likely makes far more sense to use that and completely rip the memory controller from the GPU. It not only won't be GDDR5, it most likely won't be GDDR at all.

Totally revising my speculation specs then:

CPU: Tri-core POWER7 clocked at 2.1-3.5Ghz with assymetric cache layout.
GPU: RV740 based GPU that's undergone a significant evolution, with many modern features added such as a much more modern tesselator and more. SPU 640-800, Mhz 500-600.
RAM: 32MB eDRAM and 1.25-1.5GB of DDR3 RAM.

 

[TunaLover]

Of course they're under NDA.
Even games we KNOW are hitting the system (like Darksiders 2) didn't have the Wii U logo on them.
Nintendo is keeping everything close to the chest until E3.

DQX had the Wii U logo in the main site, I wonder why this doesn't got the same treatment, anyway I'm not overly optimistic about 3rd partysupport improvement, they will find an excuse, of course they will.

 

[MDX]

If Nintendo is dumb enough to show a console and then say nothing for a full year, someone needs to be fired. We WILL see something before E3. If they wait until E3, they'll show after XBox 3 and Wii U will be stillborn on the core side.

Prior to the reveal of WiiU there was a rumor that Nintendo only planned to show the features of the WiiU during E32011, and would reveal games for it during E3 2012. So, if that is true, this is what they had planned all along.

And I bet they did this just to see how the market and their competition would react. Since then, we have been hearing plenty of rumors of PS4 and Xbox3 coming out earlier than expected.

 

[Übermatik]

Nintendo will not show the first footage of a AAA beloved first party title at a laughable western media event.

TGS, yeah, Spike's VGA awards, um, no.

 

[AceBandage]

Having the search feature back is nice, but it definitely does not show you everything that it should...

 

[[Nintex]]

Ugh, the doom and glooming from you two (Nintex and BP) is unbearable...
When the systems launch, no one is going to give a shit that they revealed the Loop at CES and Nintendo showed nothing.

That is not the issue, Nintendo's biggest flaw with the Wii was lack of developer support. If they don't feel confident in their new shiny next-gen machine(they don't even bring it up at interviews) why would developers feel like investing in it? You can't unveil a system and then act like you don't give two shits about it. Nintendo also has to convince us that they can develop HD games on par with the market standard, something that they've never done before. Mostly because they said at E3 that the system is designed for 'us', the core gamers.

 

[AceBandage]

That is not the issue, Nintendo's biggest flaw with the Wii was lack of developer support. If they don't feel confident in their new shiny next-gen machine(they don't even bring it up at interviews) why would developers feel like investing in it? You can't unveil a system and then act like you don't give two shits about it. Nintendo also has to convince us that they can develop HD games on par with the market standard, something that they've never done before. Mostly because they said at E3 that the system is designed for 'us', the core gamers.

And how do you know that hey aren't doing that?
Why would that have anything to do with them showing the system in public forums?

The best way they are going to demonstrate the Wii U's potential is to take it straight to the publishers and developers, which they are doing.

 

[TunaLover]

If Nintendo were showing every deal they have with third parties, and show every first party titles they have under development it only could help to contribute put both Sony and MS in alert mode, Nintendo must keep its stuff tight in secret, the feel that they got nothing with Wii U is working so far, at least here in NeoGAF.

Also Nintendo doesn't like divert people attention from actual on shelf products.

 

[Übermatik]

Looky here y'all.

Nintendo and 3rd party devs refuse to comment/haven't commented on the system yet, nor announced/teased any games because the console is still being revised, assessed, meddled with.

Nintendo clearly learnt a few lessons from the 3DS launch and the confusion (ugh) at E3 earlier in the year, and thus I believe they have decided to keep the system under wraps until they are confident with showing it to the public again.

Right now, devs are hard at work keeping up with the SDK iterations and changes, and all WiiU games will definitely still be in development, many in early stages.

Nintendo are tweaking both the console and controller to try and deliver the best experience possible come launch. We already know they've revised the Upad/system to an extent so that the possibility of 2 remotes is now available.

They'll have taken feedback from studios around the world in an attempt to tailor the machine to meet their needs. Lil' bit more RAM here, increasing CPU speeds here.
At E3 2012, you will all see a newer, more definitive console - the Upad will be different, the console will be different, the games will be different.

For now, Nintendo are tight lipped whilst they get things sorted.
The more confident they become, the more information we'll hear form them, and the more 3rd party developers will be allowed to say.

 

[Jocchan]

That is not the issue, Nintendo's biggest flaw with the Wii was lack of developer support. If they don't feel confident in their new shiny next-gen machine(they don't even bring it up at interviews) why would developers feel like investing in it? You can't unveil a system and then act like you don't give two shits about it. Nintendo also has to convince us that they can develop HD games on par with the market standard, something that they've never done before. Mostly because they said at E3 that the system is designed for 'us', the core gamers.

I'm actually surprised they showed as much as they did at E3, if they meant to keep this sort of radio silence for the rest of the year.
Why do a half-baked reveal followed by nothing? You either reveal it fully and keep the flow of information going, or you don't.

 

[AceBandage]

I'm actually surprised they showed as much as they did at E3, if they meant to keep this sort of radio silence for the rest of the year.
Why do a half-baked reveal followed by nothing? You either reveal it fully and keep the flow of information going, or you don't.

E3 was fairly last minute for them.
They were kind of forced to do it because we had already gotten so much leaked about the system.
That's why everything was Wii engine tech demos and Alpha software.
They probably would have just shown the Bird and Zelda demo otherwise.

 

[TunaLover]

I'm actually surprised they showed as much as they did at E3, if they meant to keep this sort of radio silence for the rest of the year.
Why do a half-baked reveal followed by nothing? You either reveal it fully and keep the flow of information going, or you don't.

I think the initial leak force them to show something, they couldn't hide the console anymore.

 

[Jocchan]

The leaks probably forced their hand, sure, but now they are paying the disadvantages of announcing a product too early.

 

[BurntPork]

Ugh, the doom and glooming from you two (Nintex and BP) is unbearable...
When the systems launch, no one is going to give a shit that they revealed the Loop at CES and Nintendo showed nothing.



I forget what thread it was in, give me a while.

Lack of hype can be deadly to a console.

 

[AceBandage]

Lack of hype can be deadly to a console.

You're right... It can be, when we're, oh say... 3 months from the launch.
Not when we're nearly a year out...

 

[TunaLover]

Lack of hype can be deadly to a console.

No, it only affect us, gaffers, normal people doesn't care until the product is on the shelf.

 

[[Nintex]]

The leaks probably forced their hand, sure, but now they are paying the disadvantages of announcing a product too early.

With all the multiplatform games like Batman announced I get the feeling that they were really rushing for holiday 2011. Zelda was also slated for spring 2011 after all untill they hit another delay(Iwata mentioned this in the Iwata Asks with Aonuma.. "You said it would be done by spring") and the 3DS was delayed from fall 2010 to spring 2011 as well so all those things considered might've messed up the schedule a bit. As for the radio silence now I'm with shockingalberto who thinks that they went back to the drawing board with some key elements. In any case we now have a bizarre situation and if Microsoft is going to show a lot of next-gen stuff it'll only get weirder.

No, it only affect us, gaffers, normal people doesn't care until the product is on the shelf.

But we are(were?) the target audience for this machine. That's the issue here, Nintendo said it themselves that the group of people that will stand in line for Wii U day 1 is different from the people they're now selling Wii's to for $99 at Walmart. For early adaptors hype plays a big factor in all this and Nintendo's latest 'core' pushes like Metroid: Other M and the 3DS launch were anything but succesful. The core gamers didn't give two shits about the 3DS so they had to adapt the pricing and bring in Mario Kart to get the masses on board but that wasn't the original plan.

 

[bgassassin]

^ I disagree Tuna. There was an article in March, one month before the Cafe leak, where EA said they expect to see Wii U at E3.

When did he said this? Can you link it?

I think Ace might be misremembering, lol.

Totally revising my speculation specs then:

CPU: Tri-core POWER7 clocked at 2.1-3.5Ghz with assymetric cache layout.
GPU: RV740 based GPU that's undergone a significant evolution, with many modern features added such as a tesselator and more. SPU 640-800, Mhz 500-600.
RAM: 32MB eDRAM and 1.5-2GB of DDR3 RAM.

You don't have to change on the fly like that. But I would say that memory range is too high. 1-1.5GB is way more likely.

And the RV740 already has a tessellation unit, I'm just believing they'll have a more modern one.

not sure about the tesselator. Are people suggesting that because they want it, or because its practical?

Current GPUs bog down with tessellation. Yes, I'm sure future programming will refine how its done and get more out of the tech, but that combined with the WiiU going with an older chip - I think its a stretch to think they'll customise to put tessellation in. They'll be happy with good performance in standard polygons in HD. They'll do amazing things with that anyway

I read that the biggest problem is that the tessellation units haven't been usable till very recently. It will have one, the question is will it be a usable one or not.

 

[AceBandage]

^ I disagree Tuna. There was an article in March, one month before the Cafe leak, where EA said they expect to see Wii U at E3.



I think Ace might be misremembering, lol.

Could be. I know someone in one of the threads definitely said it. Coulda sworn it was brain_stew, but I can't find the post.

 

[Jocchan]

With all the multiplatform games like Batman announced I get the feeling that they were really rushing for holiday 2011. Zelda was also slated for spring 2011 after all untill they hit another delay(Iwata mentioned this in the Iwata Asks with Aonuma.. "You said it would be done by spring") and the 3DS was delayed from fall 2010 to spring 2011 as well so all those things considered might've messed up the schedule a bit. As for the radio silence now I'm with shockingalberto who thinks that they went back to the drawing board with some key elements. In any case we now have a bizarre situation and if Microsoft is going to show a lot of next-gen stuff it'll only get weirder.

Agreed 100%. Also, the slow start of the 3DS likely required a lot of extra attention and diverted significant resources.

 

[TunaLover]

^ I disagree Tuna. There was an article in March, one month before the Cafe leak, where EA said they expect to see Wii U at E3.

Yeah I remember that, but that was just a guess from EA's part. Obviously they knew about the new console, but I doubt they knew about Nintendo's intention to unveil it at E3.

 

[BurntPork]

You're right... It can be, when we're, oh say... 3 months from the launch.
Not when we're nearly a year out...

The problem is that, if they wait too long and MS actually shows a new console, Wii U might be completely overshadowed on the core side and won't be able to build anymore hype than the GameCube did, meaning it'll end up with the casual audience being its lifeblood again.

 

[AceBandage]

The problem is that, if they wait too long and MS actually shows a new console, Wii U might be completely overshadowed on the core side and won't be able to build anymore hype than the GameCube did, meaning it'll end up with the casual audience being its lifeblood again.

No....
No no no.
That's not how it works.
Especially not if the Wii U launches first.
It'll be ALL about the launch lineup of the two systems.
No one's going to give a flying leap about when the Loop is revealed in relation to the Wii U RE-unveiling.

 

[magash]

The problem is that, if they wait too long and MS actually shows a new console, Wii U might be completely overshadowed on the core side and won't be able to build anymore hype than the GameCube did, meaning it'll end up with the casual audience being its lifeblood again.

All this talk of Microsoft overshadowing Nintendo when they unveil the next Xbox is absolutely baseless because the only factor that matters at the end of the day is software.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

All this talk of Microsoft overshadowing Nintendo when they unveil the next Xbox is absolutely baseless because the only factor that matters at the end of the day is software.

And right now Microsoft has a better knack for getting the software the modern "core" want.

 

[bgassassin]

Yeah I remember that, but that was just a guess from EA's part. Obviously they knew about the new console, but I doubt they knew about Nintendo's intention to unveil it at E3.

Upon further review it wasn't just EA.

http://www.zeldainformer.com/2011/0...011-what-would-it-mean-for-skyward-sword.html

Could be. I know someone in one of the threads definitely said it. Coulda sworn it was brain_stew, but I can't find the post.

I don't recall him talking about Wii U on GAF till recently.

 

[magash]

And right now Microsoft has a better knack for getting the software the modern "core" want.

By getting better 'core' software you mean 3rd party 'core' software right? because Nintendo's internal 'core' output absolutely crushes Microsoft's

 

[Penguin]

I get why Nintendo went radio silent after e3, I mean you want games when you blow out the console.

For the life of me though, not sure why they put the muzzle on 3rd parties working on games for them. No reason we shouldn't have updates on Ghost Recon or Killer Freaks or find out how this Batman port will work (if its still coming).

Unless they're afraid that from a visual standpoint doesn't really stand out that much.

 

[TunaLover]

But we are(were?) the target audience for this machine. That's the issue here, Nintendo said it themselves that the group of people that will stand in line for Wii U day 1 is different from the people they're now selling Wii's to for $99 at Walmart. For early adaptors hype plays a big factor in all this and Nintendo's latest 'core' pushes like Metroid: Other M and the 3DS launch were anything but succesful. The core gamers didn't give two shits about the 3DS so they had to adapt the pricing and bring in Mario Kart to get the masses on board but that wasn't the original plan.

Yes hype is important for the target audience it makes thye word of moutrh ball rolling, I totally agree, but Wii U is almost a year off, and as I mentioned Nintendo's doesn't like divert people attention (and money) from actual products.

 

[Hero of Legend]

We can at least have more announcements, I mean we did get DQX after all at TGS.

How about The Darkness 2 which keeps getting rumored on various sites, or Fall of Cybertron? Which this gen, TF hasn't missed being on a Nintendo platform yet.

 

[[Nintex]]

The problem is that, if they wait too long and MS actually shows a new console, Wii U might be completely overshadowed on the core side and won't be able to build anymore hype than the GameCube did, meaning it'll end up with the casual audience being its lifeblood again.

There's only 2 scenario's in which Nintendo would fall back to GameCube levels of sales.
1 - Pricing, the Wii U is too expensive compared to Xbox 360/PS3 and doesn't offer the value and features that the PS4/Next Gen Xbox offer mostly in terms of online and non-gaming services/entertainment.
2 - Nintendo's first party titles decline in popularity like they did around 2002 which is highly unlikely looking at Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7.

I don't think Nintendo will reach the heights of the Wii with hardware sales because the market conditions have changed but their marketshare and revenue will be much higher than it was during the Cube days.

Nintendo's biggest challenge won't be selling Super Mario to the masses but the first 10/20 million units at $300/$400 to create a viable userbase for the third parties to leverage from. Because as it stands right now they're out of touch with the needs and desires of the core US-gamers(and to a lesser extend EU-gamers). In Japan they caught on with Monster Hunter and the popularity of local wireless play so I don't quite understand why they can't seem to grasp the attention of the gamers in the west. I also don't feel that the solution they propose: a partnership with EA, is going to change that.

 

[TunaLover]

Upon further review it wasn't just EA.

http://www.zeldainformer.com/2011/0...011-what-would-it-mean-for-skyward-sword.html

I remember Iwata comments too, but none makes an indication of a unveil at E3 2011, it just confirmed they were working in a new console.

 

[BurntPork]

By getting better 'core' software you mean 3rd party 'core' software right? because Nintendo's internal 'core' output absolutely crushes Microsoft's

"Dudebro" software, for lack of a better word. A core Nintendo console can't survive off of Nintendo's core offerings.

 

[brain_stew]

Brain Stew's original 1.75GB seems more likely to me.
We shall see. Or, actually, we won't, but you know what I mean.

I've never quoted 1.75GB of RAM. 1GB+ is all I've ever said.

Wii U won't use a Power7 CPU.

 

[Jocchan]

Plot twist.

 

[Shanadeus]

I've never quoted 1.75GB of RAM. 1GB+ is all I've ever said.

Wii U won't use a Power7 CPU.

But it's really only feasible to increase RAM in 500MB increments right?
So if it's not 1GB, it must be 1.5 or 2GB.
That give us three possible configurations, 1, 1.5, and 2GB.
By the power of deduction, we must assume that 1.5 and 2GB is more likely to happen than 1GB (2/3rds versus 1/3rd).

Thus, the amount of RAM in the Wii U is 1.5 to 2GB.

 

[AceBandage]

I've never quoted 1.75GB of RAM. 1GB+ is all I've ever said.

Wii U won't use a Power7 CPU.

Yeah, it was someone else (though I can't fine who..).

And it's uses a Power_ CPU, though the exact specs are unknown (besides it being a 45nm chip).

 

[magash]

"Dudebro" software, for lack of a better word. A core Nintendo console can't survive off of Nintendo's core offerings.

What about core Nintendo offerings + core Japanese 3rd party offerings? Will that be okay for the so called 'hardcore' gamers or dudebro's?

People tend to focus on the western core software but no one is asking why we haven't heard practically nothing about 3rd part Japanese offerings. I mean we haven't heard about Japanese offerings from SquareEnix, Capcom, Sega, Konami, Level-5 etc.

I think Nintendo is practically holding everything close to their chest because they want to focus on the 3ds this year.

 

[TunaLover]

IBM's comment about Wii U using POWER7 was just marketing speak ;(