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[GillianSeed79]

Except Ryan did it at the beginning of the GOTY discussion.

I thought Ryan was being pretty diplomatic about it. The impression I got is that he hadn't put enough hours into Skyrim. SR3 was his personal No. 1, but instead of going the fanboy route and arguing for SR3 over a game he hadn't been invested as much time in, he went the higher road and played it pretty diplomatically. He was even willing to point out some of the faults in SR3.

I don't think people should get too bent out of shape. Jeff specifically pointed out that Skyrim PS3 was not on their top 10 list. Then again they cut Mortal Kombat for reasons that could be applied to Skyrim.

In the end it doesn't really matter to me and all the crew have their own personal top 10's, which show a nice variety.

Portal 2 is probably still my GOTY, but I'm still playing Skyrim and I just picked up SR3 today, as well as Bastion yesterday. Shit I haven't even started Batman AC because this entire week for me after work has been listening to the podcasts. I'm just glad I have so much gaming goodness to still look forward to in the coming months and weeks.

The plot twist comment made me lol though. The funniest was when Jeff said Dark Souls should get cut because there shouldn't be bad games on the list. I'm sure that probably pissed some people off, but it made me laugh.

 

[StuBurns]

He clearly stated that Saint's Row 3 didn't hold up in the end because it didn't have enough content to please him.

Maybe I wasn't paying a great deal of attention, but I believe he said it's better to not have enough content, but leave you wanting more (SR3), than the opposite (Skyrim).

 

[shadyspace]

SR3 would have been such a troll choice. It's mediocre at best mechanically and its writing is a step below a B-tier Adult Swim show. The premium Jeff puts on wackiness is embarrassing. Good on Brad for seeing through the bullshit and for Ryan having enough shame to recognize it.

 

[Ventilaator]

I may be wrong here, I'll have to look this up, but I feel like I've seen Ryan say the "I wanted more of the game but there wasn't and that's very bad" line before

Gimme a sec

...

There we go.

From the review of Crush for the PSP at Gamespot:

About the only slight that can be made against Crush is that there could've been more levels. There are more than 40 levels in the game, and hidden unlockables like time-trial levels and concept art serve as pretty good reasons to revisit levels. The game's length is fine; it's just that the experience is so mind-bending and unique, you wish that it kept going--a fault more games wish they had.

 

[Lijik]

LA Noire on the list is a crime.

 

[Lothars]

I think both Skyrim and Saints Row are great game of the year choices but I would say that Giant Bomb got it right and Skyrim is my game of the year. Both are great games though and deserve to be played.

LA Noire on the list is a crime.

I don't know abut that, I think it was a pretty decent game and worth playing just for the experience,.

 

[Duffyside]

Hey guys, remember how super-HOT Jeff was on LittleBigPlanet 2 this year? How he was all "pfffive... f-five stars" on the Bombcast, because of how great it was?

Yeah... those were good times.

Spoiler

Barely mentioned once during these deliberations.

 

[forgeforsaken]

This is the first time a Brad filibuster has been for something I'd side with. Dark Souls was never going to get its due, so with the real GOTY out I'm glad he made it go to the right game.

The thing is I don't think it was the right game for them, which is why it bothers me.
I'm not sure if I'd say SR3 is better than Skyrim, but I did love both, but for GB SR3 was the right choice if you've been listening to their podcasts as well as looking at the personal games of the year. Ultimately it seems to come down to Brad having way way too much sway over these things to the point where they feel compromised to me.

 

[Lijik]

I don't know abut that, I think it was a pretty decent game and worth playing just for the experience,.

I feel like that argument could be made for Heavy Rain, but personally LA Noire just feels like a good enough game at best and a kinda blah one at worst.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

The thing is I don't think it was the right game for them, which is why it bothers me.
I'm not sure if I'd say SR3 is better than Skyrim, but I did love both, but for GB SR3 was the right choice if you've been listening to their podcasts as well as looking at the personal games of the year. Ultimately it seems to come down to Brad having way way too much sway over these things to the point where they feel compromised to me.

I kinda agree with this. I don't consider SR3 anything more than good and think Skyrim is by far the better game, however GB has been defined by SR3 since its release.

It is kinda odd there was such a twist.

 

[Saige]

Just finished the podcast. Kind of a downer way to end with Ryan having the deciding vote but not really getting into the discussion and basically just going with “there is a lot more of Skyrim!”as his reasoning.

I also thought that Jeff made some great arguments for SR3, while Brad was making some strange points against SR3 considering he was fighting more Skyrim.

Mediocre combat? I fucking wish Skyrim had that.

 

[shintoki]

I don't know abut that, I think it was a pretty decent game and worth playing just for the experience,.

The problem is that experience ends after 4-5 cases... yet it goes on for 17 more, on top of those being longer and more repetition involved. LANoire is not a good game or even a decent one. What charm it had was buried by case 7 or 8 for me, and I was left with a terribly story and a repetitive game play structure.

 

[Banana Kid]

I am disappointed in everyone involved that Saints Row didn't take the award.

Now I will never again play Skyrim, in protest!

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

SR3 would have been such a troll choice. It's mediocre at best mechanically and its writing is a step below a B-tier Adult Swim show. The premium Jeff puts on wackiness is embarrassing. Good on Brad for seeing through the bullshit and for Ryan having enough shame to recognize it.

Yeah, that would be a great argument if Skyrim's mechanics weren't sub-par at best and non-functional at worst, along with it's writing and voice-acting being appalling throughout.

 

[scorcho]

Does it really matter what order any of these games are in? The difference between any of the top 5 games is rather meaningless in the long run.

 

[keeblerdrow]

I think the only problem that really nagged me with the capitulation of Saint's Row the Third to Skyrim was that they dropped any considerations for the PS3 version of Skyrim from the discussion. I mean, realtalk, Volition made a game for PC, 360 and PS3 and all three work amazingly. Even pretty similar to each other in terms of function and form. Bethesda's grand experiment in game was released in an unfinished and some might say unplayable form on one of these platforms. I realize that they had to divorce the PS3's disaster from the game itself, but the issue of being scared to play the game kept coming up in the discussions. I think the PS3 black sheep was an issue that shouldn't have been central to the discussion, but it needed to be brought up. There is a glaring black mark on Skyrim and I think solely because of the PS3 problems, it shouldn't be a real contender for any #1 spot on lists. For as much as it does right, it did do wrong by a good amount of its customers.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yeah, that would be a great argument if Skyrim's mechanics weren't sub-par at best and non-functional at worst, along with it's writing and voice-acting being appalling throughout.

Yeah, mechanically, Skyrim is not a good game in any sense. The combat is fucking braindead.

Skyrim is an awesome artistic achievement and it's an incredible virtual world. The actual game mechanics are awful, though.

Does it really matter what order any of these games are in? The difference between any of the top 5 games is rather meaningless in the long run.

Wrong. Perception-wise, it doesn't matter what number you are on the list from 10-2, but there is a huge different from those and number 1.

Just finished the podcast. Kind of a downer way to end with Ryan having the deciding vote but not really getting into the discussion and basically just going with “there is a lot more of Skyrim!”as his reasoning.

I also thought that Jeff made some great arguments for SR3, while Brad was making some strange points against SR3 considering he was fighting more Skyrim.

Mediocre combat? I fucking wish Skyrim had that.

Seriously. It's ridiculous how Brad bags on Saints Row's combat while propping up Skyrim.

 

[Banana Kid]

Does it really matter what order any of these games are in? The difference between any of the top 5 games is rather meaningless in the long run.

BUT THEIR CHOICES ARE WROOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGG

 

[GillianSeed79]

Ultimately it seems to come down to Brad having way way too much sway over these things to the point where they feel compromised to me.

Eh, I always got the feeling that Jeff and Ryan have way too much sway sometimes, especially Jeff.

That said I think this year was a little more diplomatic. I think if they really wanted to Jeff and Ryan could have told Brad no and that would have been it. There was even mention of Terminator from last year if nobody caught it. I think both argued their sides well.

 

[Mechanized]

I think the only problem that really nagged me with the capitulation of Saint's Row the Third to Skyrim was that they dropped any considerations for the PS3 version of Skyrim from the discussion. I mean, realtalk, Volition made a game for PC, 360 and PS3 and all three work amazingly. Even pretty similar to each other in terms of function and form. Bethesda's grand experiment in game was released in an unfinished and some might say unplayable form on one of these platforms. I realize that they had to divorce the PS3's disaster from the game itself, but the issue of being scared to play the game kept coming up in the discussions. I think the PS3 black sheep was an issue that shouldn't have been central to the discussion, but it needed to be brought up. There is a glaring black mark on Skyrim and I think solely because of the PS3 problems, it shouldn't be a real contender for any #1 spot on lists. For as much as it does right, it did do wrong by a good amount of its customers.

Yeah I don't think it's fair for them to just ignore the PS3 version. A ton of fucking people bought that busted PS3 version and it SHOULD be a factor in the deliberations.
Saying, "oh we know the PS3 one sucks we're just judging the two good versions" isn't right.

 

[KorrZ]

Mediocre combat? I fucking wish Skyrim had that.

Yeah, mechanically, Skyrim is not a good game in any sense. The combat is fucking braindead.

Yeah, that would be a great argument if Skyrim's mechanics weren't sub-par at best and non-functional at worst, along with it's writing and voice-acting being appalling throughout.

The hyperbole in this thread is fucking hilarious.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

Pretty glad Skyrim won. While I really like it, Saints Row is a zeitgeist game. It's cool at the time but if they continue making crazy random shite for the sake of being crazy, it'll turn into the family guy of video games.

 

[megalowho]

Well, it's not really about The Witcher 2's position on the list (I mean, moving from 6 to 4, or whatever, who cares?) but it'd kind of temper opinions on some of the stuff Brad found so exceptional in Skyrim. I haven't finished Skyrim, but to my surprise I'm actually enjoying the way the lore is being introduced, but it's not that unique when compared to TW2.

There was such a wealth of great dark fantasy this year in gaming, it was almost too much. I really love Dark Souls, Skyrim and Witcher 2, and playing those games specifically exposed me to different but comparable ways to approach the genre. Hell, even Dragon Age 2 was worth playing for the sake of comparison. And together, that's a staggering amount of hours to spend in similar settings. I can't fault anyone for not subjecting themselves to that, especially if dark fantasy isn't really your cup of tea. Tough to jump into the Witcher 2 after 80 hours of Skyrim, I'd imagine.

But I digress.. totally agree that potential ammo against some of Brad's Skyrim arguments just wasn't in their holsters at times. And that's too bad, if only for the sake of discussion

Spoiler

Skyrim wins for me too

. Still, interestingly enough, Witcher 2 sits comfortably in the middle of their top 10 even with relatively little personal passion behind it. They all seem to recognize it's worth championing. I do think Vinny could have swayed some hearts and minds if he really latched on to the stellar combat in Dark Souls, but ah whatevs. Rayman's a cool dude too.

 

[erpg]

Nothing against Skyrim, but the thing that irked me was that the argument was a war of attrition. It was painful to listen to Brad nag about the smallest (and sometimes flat out incorrect) things while Jeff and Vinny were genuinely enthused, consistently bringing out positive points and pulling out mostly valid defenses to the ridiculous and hypocritical claims against Saints Row.

I would've walked out.

Pretty glad Skyrim won. While I really like it, Saints Row is a zeitgeist game. It's cool at the time but if they continue making crazy random shite for the sake of being crazy, it'll turn into the family guy of video games.

Honestly, it's more than the crass stuff you see in the videos. The cars are fun to drive, you can juggle enemies with explosive pistols, the helicopter handles better than any I've ever played in a game before. It's just a really well-made game that tries to offer you everything it can to make a fun sandbox. I champion its design, and it really only needs...well, more, like Ryan said. If it had the breadth of content Skyrim packs in...well, I'd have my game for the next few months, and have a better time with it than any other title. I hope the DLC is substantial.

 

[shintoki]

Yeah I don't think it's fair for them to just ignore the PS3 version. A ton of fucking people bought that busted PS3 version and it SHOULD be a factor in the deliberations.
Saying, "oh we know the PS3 one sucks we're just judging the two good versions" isn't right.

Judge the game, not the system. If they played it on 360 or PC, I don't see where the PS3 version comes into play. I don't care about TF2 on the console side. Nor Deus Ex: Human Revolution, or even Witcher 2's eventual port. Same applies to many of those titles that run like shit on consoles like Risen, but really shine on PC. Judge it on the version you play.

Now if they want to put a big disclaimer that says "WE DID NOT PLAY THE PS3". Then go for it. There is a reason why I always try to right the system down I played it on. Instantly telling to which point of view you are grading the title on.

Honestly, it's more than you crass stuff see in the videos. The cars are fun to handle, you can juggle enemies with explosive pistols, the helicopter handles better than any I've ever played in a game before. It's just a really well-made game that tries to offer you everything it can to make a fun sandbox. I champion its design, and it really only needed...well, more, like Ryan said. If it had the breadth of content Skyrim packs in...well, I'd have my game for the next few months., and have a better time with it than any other game.

If it had more, it would have been my GOTY too. I 100% under 20hours. The mechanics in it are top notch for a sandbox title. Everything controls well and unlike previous ones, there isn't that frustrating feeling to it at hard points.
But like stated, its just over so quick.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

The hyperbole in this thread is fucking hilarious.

Your bias is more than apparent by not mentioning the post we were all reacting to which was the source of any kind of "hyperbole". Beyond that would you like to argue what the mechanics Skyrim uses have going for them?

 

[FilthyLies]

The hyperbole in this thread is fucking hilarious.

TO be fair, for a game where 90% of your time is spent in combat, Skyrim's combat isn't too great.

Which is something that it seems almost all review sites glazed over: this game is almost all combat. Sure they all take place in different locations, but each and every quest boils down to: find cave, fight way through cave, beat boss, return to quest giver and claim reward. It's actually terribly monotonous when it gets right down to it.

 

[Oracle Dragon]

Yeah, mechanically, Skyrim is not a good game in any sense. The combat is fucking braindead.

Skyrim is an awesome artistic achievement and it's an incredible virtual world. The actual game mechanics are awful, though.

Seriously. It's ridiculous how Brad bags on Saints Row's combat while propping up Skyrim.

I think it could depend a lot on HOW you play Skyrim; playing as a stealth/archer I find the combat very satisfying; It's very rewarding to take a guy out without them ever finding you, and getting caught it usually challenging to get out of.

I tried re-rolling a new character as melee, and I thought it was underwhelming, and I didn't enjoy it. I believe it was another poster on this board who compared the feeling of melee combat to those nightmares you have where you are swinging punches but they have no power, like your arms are underwater. After trying Skyrim melee, that was a pretty apt analogy I thought. I have not tried a magic-based character yet, so I can't really comment.

 

[Saige]

The hyperbole in this thread is fucking hilarious.

Hey the type of game that Skyrim is should be right up my alley, but after spending 15 hours with it I just feel that I have lost all tolerance for Bethesda’s lack lustre combat.

I put up with it in Oblivion, but I expected more from Skyrim.

 

[krameriffic]

Yeah, that would be a great argument if Skyrim's mechanics weren't sub-par at best and non-functional at worst, along with it's writing and voice-acting being appalling throughout.

My favorite thing about listening to Giant Bomb is that they can debate these things civilly and realistically even when they have wildly different viewpoints. Kind of the exact OPPOSITE of statements like this one. They provide reasoning and examples rather than out-and-out stating that that the game is shit and moving on.

 

[forgeforsaken]

TO be fair, for a game where 90% of your time is spent in combat, Skyrim's combat isn't too great.

Which is something that it seems almost all review sites glazed over: this game is almost all combat. Sure they all take place in different locations, but each and every quest boils down to: find cave, fight way through cave, beat boss, return to quest giver and claim reward. It's actually terribly monotonous when it gets right down to it.

Especially when it released shortly after Dark Souls and you could see how good
combat could be.

 

[killer_clank]

guys you know what?


SKYRIM AND SAINTS ROW 3 ARE REALLY GOOD GAMES.

 

[KorrZ]

Your bias is more than apparent by not mentioning the post we were all reacting to which was the source of any kind of "hyperbole". Beyond that would you like to argue what the mechanics Skyrim uses have going for them?

Just because the comment you were responding too was non sense doesn't make it alright for you to post the same in response. Trying to say all of Skyrim's mechanics are sub-par or non-functional and all of it's voice acting and writing as appalling in such a blanket way like that is not a valid criticism. Why don't you tell me specifically what your issues are instead of making such a hyperbolic blanket statement and then I'll address them.

 

[hamchan]

Thing that bothers me is I do remember them judging games down before just because one of the platforms was subpar. I think they even did it this year for one of their categories but I can't remember which one.

 

[Lothars]

Your bias is more than apparent by not mentioning the post we were all reacting to which was the source of any kind of "hyperbole". Beyond that would you like to argue what the mechanics Skyrim uses have going for them?

You say his Bias is showing but yours is just as bad, I feel the combat in Skyrim is not bad at all. The Melee Combat could be better but the Archery and Magic are both great. I really enjoyed the combat in general.

 

[shadyspace]

Yeah, that would be a great argument if Skyrim's mechanics weren't sub-par at best and non-functional at worst, along with it's writing and voice-acting being appalling throughout.

Why are you talking to me about Skyrim? I have no interest in that game.

 

[Basileus777]

I love how Brad (or was it Patrick?) argued how Skyrim's radiant quests were so revolutionary. Those randomly generated garbage quests with no useful rewards and no interesting content were sure amazing! I don't really mind Skyrim winning, but their super idealized image of the game was frustrating to listen to.

 

[Mechanized]

Judge the game, not the system. If they played it on 360 or PC, I don't see where the PS3 version comes into play. I don't care about TF2 on the console side. Nor Deus Ex: Human Revolution, or even Witcher 2's eventual port. Same applies to many of those titles that run like shit on consoles like Risen, but really shine on PC. Judge it on the version you play.

Now if they want to put a big disclaimer that says "WE DID NOT PLAY THE PS3". Then go for it. There is a reason why I always try to right the system down I played it on. Instantly telling to which point of view you are grading the title on.

I understand where you're coming from and your second paragraph addresses one of the major issues I have with it, there SHOULD be a huge disclaimer that says their GOTY decision was based only on the PC and 360 version if they want to go that route. Because if this GOTY nod sways even one person into buying the PS3 version then that is fucked up.

Again I understand judging the game and the individual experience, but the GOTY nod was for best overall game and purely goes against that(that is what the personal lists are for). I think in this case it has to be a factor, because it's really broken. I'm not a mad PS3 player either, I have the PC version. And I don't have a vendetta for them not choosing SR3 or anything. I love Skyrim. But the part where your argument falls apart for me is, Bethesda made this game, and they ported it to the PS3. It's not the PS3's fault the game is busted, Bethesda set out from the start to make a multi-platform title and they released it even though it was pretty much broken on one platform and they said fuck it instead of making it work. When you're saying best game of the year overall? Trivial in the long term, lets face it, but for the short term that award coming from a gaming website as their stance on a title is a big thing. I think it is definitely a factor.

 

[Conceited]

Saints Row should have won.



Brads arguments were bad, just like they were last year, and yet nobody ever seems to call him on it.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

Honestly, it's more than the crass stuff you see in the videos. The cars are fun to drive, you can juggle enemies with explosive pistols, the helicopter handles better than any I've ever played in a game before. It's just a really well-made game that tries to offer you everything it can to make a fun sandbox. I champion its design, and it really only needs...well, more, like Ryan said. If it had the breadth of content Skyrim packs in...well, I'd have my game for the next few months, and have a better time with it than any other title. I hope the DLC is substantial.

I played through Saints Row. It's a good video game. The problem I have with it is that the parts where it excels are the parts that could have been just as effective in another medium. The things that I do in Skyrim are unique to me which is something that can only be done in video games. Saints Row is great for what it is but I don't think it should be championed as the best that video gaming has to offer this whole year.

 

[f0rk]

How did Dead Space 2 end up so high? That's the biggest shocker of the list for me. There didn't seem to be much discussion except "it's good".

Also why did Space Pharioh beat The Wizard when Skyrim was #1

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Poor fucking Jeff

 

[DMczaf]

I haven't even played Saints Row yet, and I'm disappointed that it didn't win. It's like the ending of Rocky, but less satisfying.

 

[KorrZ]

How did Dead Space 2 end up so high? That's the biggest shocker of the list for me.

Dead Space 2 made good on the promise of the direction that RE4 took the Survival Horror genre. It accomplished what RE5 ultimately tried and failed to do, which is to blend action and horror in a way that doesn't get rid of any and all tension and atmosphere in favour of pure action like Resident Evil 5 did.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

"see you guys in 2012!!!"
"isn't that like tomorrow?"

Ahahahahahaha

 

[megalowho]

would you like to argue what the mechanics Skyrim uses have going for them?

TO be fair, for a game where 90% of your time is spent in combat, Skyrim's combat isn't too great.

Which is something that it seems almost all review sites glazed over: this game is almost all combat. Sure they all take place in different locations, but each and every quest boils down to: find cave, fight way through cave, beat boss, return to quest giver and claim reward. It's actually terribly monotonous when it gets right down to it.

I won't defend Skyrim's combat ardently, but I do think it's starting to get a worse rap than it deserves. It's very visceral for one thing, with excellent sound design and effects supporting the mechanics. The world itself often feels like a random element that can affect fights - I distinctly recall manageable encounters that quickly spiraled out of control, and suddenly I was on the edge of my seat. And whether you're smashing some wolf's face in with a mace or shielding off a stream of fire that fills the screen, letting your companion do the heavy lifting or conjuring dead bodies to assist you, there's an ever growing set of tools at your disposal and a perk system that still provides the player license to play around with combat styles throughout. I would never classify Elder Scrolls' first person combat as tactical, but you can certainly find a few things in there that work best for your style, and then when you get tired of that, try a whole new approach instead. That kind of stuff is fun for me.

And I take offense to your assertion that the game is 90% combat good sir. It's at least 50% of crouch walking and stealing everything you can while no one is looking, c'mon now.

 

[f0rk]

I understand where you're coming from and your second paragraph addresses one of the major issues I have with it, there SHOULD be a huge disclaimer that says their GOTY decision was based only on the PC and 360 version if they want to go that route. Because if this GOTY nod sways even one person into buying the PS3 version then that is fucked up.

Jeff says quite early on whereever we put Skyrim it is on 360/PC and PS3 isn't included, which is a stance I agree with but they could probably make it more clear in the video list.

 

[Goldmund]

I love Brad. He can fight, he positions, he feints, he manipulates and then he strikes. Very enjoyable set of GOTY episodes this year. Thank you, Giant Bomb.

 

[rac]

"In 60 hours I haven't seen one thing bad in skyrim."

Well except for the combat which they continually say is bad during the podcast.

 

[2Crisis]

I'm so glad I waited on most of these games.

Right now I'm playing Skyrim and when it gets boring or I need a break I bust out Saints Row 3. Ultimate Victory.