The Black Culture Thread

Slayven said:
Yet everyone wants to sing, dance, dress, and talk like us.
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Back in like 2003, now Hipster white kid seems to be the in thing.

EDIT:
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I got into an argument with my improv teacher about black actors in general and Red Tails specifically. The conversation started as a class discussion on media roles and types over time. He brought up Red Tails, saying that the "Hollywood wouldn't fund an all-black cast" is just a marketing ploy. I said that white people don't want to see movies with a mostly black cast, referring to a study from a thread on a similar topic. He went on to claim that of the bankable actors in hollywood, half are black, which is ridiculous. I usually don't get riled up during race discussions, but he just sounded ridiculous.
 
JCX said:
I got into an argument with my improv teacher about black actors in general and Red Tails specifically. The conversation started as a class discussion on media roles and types over time. He brought up Red Tails, saying that the "Hollywood wouldn't fund an all-black cast" is just a marketing ploy. I said that white people don't want to see movies with a mostly black cast, referring to a study from a thread on a similar topic. He went on to claim that of the bankable actors in hollywood, half are black, which is ridiculous. I usually don't get riled up during race discussions, but he just sounded ridiculous.
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Half of bankable actors are black? The only 3 I can even think of are will smith, denzel, and morgan freeman. There are more?
 
JCX said:
I got into an argument with my improv teacher about black actors in general and Red Tails specifically. The conversation started as a class discussion on media roles and types over time. He brought up Red Tails, saying that the "Hollywood wouldn't fund an all-black cast" is just a marketing ploy.
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Have you read this article? http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/opinion/martin-red-tails-hollywood/

This racial fight may be new to George Lucas, but to African-Americans, this has been a long and painful battle.

A few months ago on my TV One Cable Network Sunday show, Washington Watch, I talked with actor Brian White, who has starred in "Stomp the Yard," "Fighting" and the critically-acclaimed TV show, "Men of a Certain Age."

He told a stunning story that shows the ignorance of Hollywood regarding an independent movie he starred in with Zoe Saldana, "The Heart Specialist."

"Dennis Cooper, the writer, director and producer, is a Caucasian man who had some friends," White said. "His friend David was the inspiration for Dr. Z and Dr. Howard -- a Harvard-educated doctor that was involved with the film. And Dennis sold this great script to the studios, but he left the character descriptions out.

"When the studios found out the leads were black, they didn't want to make the movie anymore, and Dennis had to go take his own money and his friends' money and make this movie himself and then start the long road to getting a distribution deal."

This isn't just the big studios.

The Weinstein Co. produced "The Hurricane Season," a basketball film about two teams coming together in the wake of Hurricane Katrina to win the Louisiana state championship. Yet the movie went straight to DVD, angering lead actor Forest Whitaker, and others in the film, including Taraji Henson, Courtney B. Vance, Isaiah Washington and the rapper Bow Wow.

The excuse given the actors? The Weinstein Co. said they didn't know how to market the film. Really. A movie with basketball at the center of the story? Folks, come on!

Hollywood defenders will be quick to say, what about Will Smith? Denzel Washington? Halle Berry?

What's interesting in Hollywood is that if you're Will Smith, Denzel Washington or a handful of others, you really aren't seen as "black." For them, they have crossed the post-racial threshold, and in Hollywood's eyes, white America will watch them.

But if you talk to them and so many other top Hollywood actors, they will also tell you stories of having doors slammed in their faces, and trying to get movies made featuring mostly blacks and were told, "Can't you make the characters white?"

What is also at play is that for Hollywood, having one black guy in a film that has mostly whites is never called a white film. But if it's one or two white guys in a film with mostly blacks -- uh oh, black film!

The latest excuse offered up by the Hollywood studios is that "black films" don't sell well overseas. What that means is that foreigners also don't want to see African-Americans. Again, I believe the problem is how the movies are categorized.

Let's take two black men dressing up as women. When Martin Lawrence does it in "Big Momma's House," that isn't marketed as a "black film." As a result, it grossed $117.5 million in the United States and $56.4 million worldwide.

Yet Tyler Perry's "Madea Goes to Jail," another movie featuring a black guy dressed as a grandmother, did $90 million in the U.S., and they didn't even bother to show it overseas. Maybe that's because Tyler Perry's "Madea's Family Vacation" only did $50,000 in ticket sales worldwide three years earlier, and $63.2 million in the U.S.

Now, if Hollywood knows how to sell white men dressed as women (Robin Williams in "Mrs. Doubtfire" and Dustin Hoffman in "Tootsie") along with largely white casts, they can't figure out how to do the same for a Tyler Perry?
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JCX said:
I got into an argument with my improv teacher about black actors in general and Red Tails specifically. The conversation started as a class discussion on media roles and types over time. He brought up Red Tails, saying that the "Hollywood wouldn't fund an all-black cast" is just a marketing ploy. I said that white people don't want to see movies with a mostly black cast, referring to a study from a thread on a similar topic. He went on to claim that of the bankable actors in hollywood, half are black, which is ridiculous. I usually don't get riled up during race discussions, but he just sounded ridiculous.
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I didn't realize Will Smith is half of Hollywood.



Also Eddie murphy was the other exception, The fresh Prince has since taken the throne.
 
JCX said:
Only others I could think of are Samuel Jackson and Halle Berry.
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Will Smith
Denzel
Samuel
Morgan Freeman
Halle Berry

Idris is coming up...
Tyrese sort of counts (no he doesn't, since he's never been a lead)
But after that, who do we have?

Zoe?
Paula Patton? (lol no)
Common? (he wishes)

...

:/
 
DY_nasty said:
Will Smith
Denzel
Samuel
Morgan Freeman
Halle Berry

Idris is coming up...
Tyrese sort of counts (no he doesn't, since he's never been a lead)
But after that, who do we have?

Zoe?
Paula Patton? (lol no)
Common? (he wishes)

...

:/
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You know whats fucked up about this list? Everyone is over 40, All of em' had to really put in work to even where they are now, and they don't even do blockbusters, but very notable and respected actors. Can we let some of the up an coming actors get some shine rather than have the go to black actors for a role? Preferrably someone that isn't a rapper and has put work into their craft, cuz I'm sure they're out there.
 
Imm0rt4l said:
You know whats fucked up about this list? Everyone is over 40, All of em' had to really put in work to even where they are now, and they don't even do blockbusters, but very notable and respected actors.
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Yeah that is sad...

Even worse is the younger generation. I couldn't even name a black actor or actress under 25.
 
DY_nasty said:
Will Smith
Denzel
Samuel
Morgan Freeman
Halle Berry

Idris is coming up...
Tyrese sort of counts (no he doesn't, since he's never been a lead)
But after that, who do we have?

Zoe?
Paula Patton? (lol no)
Common? (he wishes)

...

:/
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Interesting question. How many "leads" are there, in Hollywood, at the scale we're discussing?

You've named 5 (without counting any of the up-and-comers). If we assume a standard distribution throughout the US populace, we can calculate a standard total one should see in a non-biased pool operating on random selection. According to the latest data, African Americans represent 12.3% of the US populace, down from 14.8% in 2000. Thus, there should be ~36 (35.65) similarly important white and other ethnic stars in Hollywood (with no standard deviation calculable, of course).

Without doing any further analysis, I suspect a list that long could be made.
 
Damn........I think the Red Tails thread is worse than the Bus thread. I was thinking it would be people discussing the movie but the last few pages are brutal. I just wasn't ready for that shit.


Dead Man said:
Hey blackGAF, got a question for you. I have been working with some middle eastern kids who have come to Australia as asylum seekers, we have a care facility in town so they are ont isolated out in the bush like the adults are. Anyway, most of the other workers there are former refugees themselves, mostly from Africa. These middle eastern kids hate them so much they make up complaints about them to try and get them in shit with management. Management knows whats up so it is more of an irritation than anything else, but it really surprised me. They are mostly Islamic and mostly Afghani and Persian. Has anyone experienced this from other middle eastern people?
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Hmm that's interesting. I'm from the UK and in my experience, middle-easterners/Arabs have been pretty welcoming. Being a muslim myself, we've always had that in similar.

Although when I was in the middle-east (Egypt, Dubai, Arabia) It did seem like the African immigrants were treated like shit. They probably think they can still treat them like shit in Austrailia unfortunately.

EDIT: Oh mostly Persians and Afghans. All the Persians i've met have been westernised and chill. I have heard shit about Afghans being extremely racist to black people here though.
 
I'd actually be interested in seeing such a study. I highly doubt that the number of minorities in Hollywood is representative of the people in the US. Asians especially have it bad. I would find it refreshing to see a film with an Asian lead or a Latino leads, and I'm not talking about ethnocentric roles. I mean just normal roles where the Main guy/gal just so happens to be Latino/black/asian, ones where the race of the character doesn't matter to the story. Being able to do this makes people who look different seem less alien. When I watch a movie with a white protagonist, I don't look at him as a white guy, just a guy.
 
Imm0rt4l said:
I'd actually be interested in seeing such a study. I highly doubt that the number of minorities in Hollywood is representative of the people in the US. Asians especially have it bad. I would find it refreshing to see a film with an Asian lead or a Latino leads, and I'm not talking about ethnocentric roles. I mean just normal roles where the Main guy/gal just so happens to be Latino/black/asian, ones where the race of the character doesn't matter to the story. Being able to do this makes people who look different seem less alien. When I watch a movie with a white protagonist, I don't look at him as a white guy, just a guy.
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You make a good point there. Black movigoers dont discriminate, they watch all types of movies. I don't go into see a movie like Drive hoping to see a black actor I can identify with, I just go to see an interesting story.

But if the movie or tv show has a majority black cast it seems to have the opposite effect, unless its a comedy.

A show like the wire would have been huge if it was mostly a white cast.
 
soundscream said:
You make a good point there. Black movigoers dont discriminate, they watch all types of movies. I don't go into see a movie like Drive hoping to see a black actor I can identify with, I just go to see an interesting story.

But if the movie or tv show has a majority black cast it seems to have the opposite effect, unless its a comedy.

A show like the wire would have been huge if it was mostly a white cast.
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The wire would have won emmys out the ass if it had a white cast, it's criminal.
 
Blaming Hollywood for the low prevalence of blacks in film is like blaming the NBA for the low prevalence of whites in basketball.

I think it's a huge red herring, we should look at statistics of how many black students are attending courses related to film and tv compared to white students.

Again, I ask where is the black indie film community that Hollywood is stifling the creativity of so much?
 
Isn't it just a case of the population numbers. Black people only make up 15% of the US. So why would studios invest in black actors/actresses. They just don't pull in the numbers.
 
Good Job Bob said:
Blaming Hollywood for the low prevalence of blacks in film is like blaming the NBA for the low prevalence of whites in basketball.

I think it's a huge red herring, we should look at statistics of how many black students are attending courses related to film and tv compared to white students.

Again, I ask where is the black indie film community that Hollywood is stifling the creativity of so much?
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I don't blame Hollywood, I blame the people who consume what they produce.
 
Good Job Bob said:
I'm sorry but that's a huge pile of nonsense

I'm not going to stop watching films because the amount of blacks in them don't line up perfectly to demographics, are you crazy?
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who said you had to stop watching films? I said I dont blame Hollywood for not making more predominately black films because it's a business they need to make money. My point wad that I blame people who won't see a movie because the cast is mostly black.
 
soundscream said:
who said you had to stop watching films? I said I dont blame Hollywood for not making more predominately black films because it's a business they need to make money. My point wad that I blame people who won't see a movie because the cast is mostly black.
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Garbage like Tyler Perry movies are specifically made and targeted towards a specific audience, can you really blame people outside of that audience being uninterested in them?
 
Good Job Bob said:
Garbage like Tyler Perry movies are specifically made and targeted towards a specific audience, can you really blame people outside of that audience being uninterested in them?
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I'm not talking about crap like that, I wouldn't watch that if you paid me.

Lets use the wire as an example. That show should have been bigger than the sopranos but it wasn't. Can you provide a reason for it not being more successful other then it featured a majority black cast?
 
soundscream said:
I'm not talking about crap like that, I wouldn't watch that if you paid me.

Lets use the wire as an example. That show should have been bigger than the sopranos but it wasn't. Can you provide a reason for it not being more successful other then it featured a majority black cast?
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The reason for The Wire's modest ratings should be clear cut to anyone, it's a slow-paced show.

The reason for The Wire's awards? I have no clue. But before you blame white people and their prejudice remember that The Wire never won any NAACP awards either.

Award shows always get it wrong anyways, regardless of the race of the cast involved.
 
FreeMufasa said:
Hmm that's interesting. I'm from the UK and in my experience, middle-easterners/Arabs have been pretty welcoming. Being a muslim myself, we've always had that in similar.

Although when I was in the middle-east (Egypt, Dubai, Arabia) It did seem like the African immigrants were treated like shit. They probably think they can still treat them like shit in Austrailia unfortunately.

EDIT: Oh mostly Persians and Afghans. All the Persians i've met have been westernised and chill. I have heard shit about Afghans being extremely racist to black people here though.
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Thanks for the reply. I don't know if the African workers are Muslim or not, they are from East Africa mostly si it is possible.

Anyway, thanks all.
 
Good thing Tyler Perry has nothing to do with Red Tails then. It should do well.

It's about crossover appeal, and things not being given the chance to cross over. If people pushed black films like they did gangsta rap in the 90s, Hollywood would burst right open. The 'we don't know how to sell it' statement is just an excuse, because they can form focus groups and test audiences for any screen idea and learn how to market it, but unless there's a white person to focus on, they won't even try. It becomes a 'black film' for 'black people', even if it's a historically accurate set piece with white actors and a black main cast, its still not enough. Or even worse, the whites are diminished, or the kiss of death, they're portrayed in a negative light. The Red Tails and Red Balls served with white soldiers, but those are stories of the heroism of black servicemen, not the redemption of white characters, so obviously, "...who would want to see this movie? There's no audience for it. We can't sell it."

And now the discussion itself is a race card play and a marketing ploy?

Good Job Bob said:
The reason for The Wire's awards? I have no clue. But before you blame white people and their prejudice remember that The Wire never won any NAACP awards either.
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CapnHaddockOhwow.gif

edit:
pretty gottdamn sure Lucas didn't ask for dubstep for his WW2 film ads. "Gotta sell to that 'urban' demographic!"
 
Good Job Bob said:
The reason for The Wire's modest ratings should be clear cut to anyone, it's a slow-paced show.

The reason for The Wire's awards? I have no clue. But before you blame white people and their prejudice remember that The Wire never won any NAACP awards either.

Award shows always get it wrong anyways, regardless of the race of the cast involved.
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........ Ok.
 
akira28 said:
Good thing Tyler Perry has nothing to do with Red Tails then. It should do well.
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I think Red Tails is gonna do fine, but even if it didn't does race have to be the unanimous factor in it's bombing? Are their not films with majority white casts that bomb as well? Maybe it's because the film sucks (haven't seen it yet, but 33% on RT), maybe it's because the film's marketing campaign sucked (dubstep, take dat mistuh hitluh), etc

It's about crossover appeal, and things not being given the chance to cross over. If people pushed black films like they did gangsta rap in the 90s, Hollywood would burst right open. The 'we don't know how to sell it' statement is just an excuse, because they can form focus groups and test audiences for any screen idea and learn how to market it, but unless there's a white person to focus on, they won't even try. It becomes a 'black film' for 'black people', even if it's a historically accurate set piece with white actors and a black main cast, its still not enough. Or even worse, the whites are diminished, or the kiss of death, they're portrayed in a negative light. The Red Tails and Red Balls served with white soldiers, but those are stories of the heroism of black servicemen, not the redemption of white characters, so obviously, "...who would want to see this movie? There's no audience for it. We can't sell it."
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Where's the indie community of black filmmakers that Hollywood can push and exploit? It doesn't exist like the rap scene back in the 90s so that analogy is broken.


CapnHaddockOhwow.gif
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What's up with what I posted? If The Wire's award situation was fully to blame on white people why didn't it win any NAACP awards?


EDIT:

pretty gottdamn sure Lucas didn't ask for dubstep for his WW2 film ads. "Gotta sell to that 'urban' demographic!"
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Their are other films that were marketed with dubstep that don't feature majority black casts, it's kind of a thing now.
 
Black indies will show up. They have in the past. Not met with much success or appeal though. Once you make a movie, you still have to find a distributor and a way to make back all that money you borrowed. You pretty much have to bet your life on your projects. I could go out tomorrow and get a film pushed about accepted "Black" subjects "intended" for a "black" "audience". But I'd be pretty limited because black filmmakers themselves are typecast.

Maybe the son of Spike Lee could go out and make thoughtful films about dreamy subjects in foreign countries. Maybe success of people like Steve McQueen will push more potential black filmmakers into taking a chance instead of going directly into 9to5 type workaday life. But it's risky and with the numbers involved, not very many are set to make that gamble. I see plenty of direct to video small time black films, completely under the radar of Hollywood, or maybe just on their ignore list. Some guy was out front of the liquor store pushing his gangster epic a few weeks ago.

also, hey, jerk, no one is blaming "white people." I see people blaming the situation surrounding the issue.
 
akira28 said:
Black indies will show up. They have in the past. Not met with much success or appeal though. Once you make a movie, you still have to find a distributor and a way to make back all that money you borrowed. You pretty much have to bet your life on your projects. I could go out tomorrow and get a film pushed about accepted "Black" subjects "intended" for a "black" "audience". But I'd be pretty limited because black filmmakers themselves are typecast.

Maybe the son of Spike Lee could go out and make thoughtful films about dreamy subjects in foreign countries. Maybe success of people like Steve McQueen will push more potential black filmmakers into taking a chance instead of going directly into 9to5 type workaday life. But it's risky and with the numbers involved, not very many are set to make that gamble. I see plenty of direct to video small time black films, completely under the radar of Hollywood, or maybe just on their ignore list. Some guy was out front of the liquor store pushing his gangster epic a few weeks ago.
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Now you're just stating the problems for any upcoming filmmaker.

Anyways, like I said I'd love to see the statistics of blacks taking film related courses; rather than just blaming the problem on Hollywood or audiences..theirs simply so much more at factor here than those two, just like their are in regards to the overwhelming prevalence of blacks in sports.


also, hey, jerk, no one is blaming "white people." I see people blaming the situation surrounding the issue.
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Kay, but my point about the NAACP - The Wire still stands so clearly more factors than "the situation around the issue" must be at play.
 
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