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[DCKing]

None this gen because of how branch-intensive the code is. A few branch mispredicts could stall the whole pipeline in these CPUs, so most developers redesigned AI and Physics routines but hardly improved, if anything they took a step back. Cell was able to shine in physics because of the raw number crunching power but still it could be alot better. You need logic hardware for games.

Nobody's arguing that the CPUs could be way more efficient. Despite that, in general games are simply not CPU bounded any more!

Also next-gen as you could imagine you're gonna have a larger number of infinitely more complex objects to run your physics on so the CPU will be more important than ever.

Hyperbole much?

The fact it is an old design born on 90nm and already shrinked to 45 and likely to move to 32/28nm before the next MS platform is released is a good enough reason.

What? No, it isn't. What about it is so specific for 90nm? Even if it were a good reason of course it's not going to be the exact same thing.

Spoiler

Ugh, I just threw the suggestion in there... Don't taunt me with shaky reasoning!

 

[iamshadowlark]

Nobody's arguing that the CPUs could be way more efficient. Despite that, in general games are simply not CPU bounded any more!

The fact that you can work around a problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Hyperbole much?

Erm no...

 

[vandaliser]

I hope sony continues with more sheer horsepower DNA methodology even though the master has long departed the playstation division.

My dream ps4 specs. All under the hood basically

32 spu Cell 2.0 @ 4ghz
16 GB XDR 2 connected to cell at full processor speed.
16x 500 GB Blu-ray drive

Don't care what GPU they use as long they nerf it as they did with the RSX to save costs

 

[TerryWogan]

GB = Gigabytes. Gb = Gigabits.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

LOL I think I heard this somewhere before, let me guess dual 1080p and HDMI right?

I think Sony has their hands full with, VITA, the overall poor state of the entire company and basically all their product lines.


Good luck to you Sony I'm guessing PS4 in 2014 at best.

 

[inner-G]

GB = Gigabytes. Gb = Gigabits.

Thats still 8X more Ram than PS3! Lol

 

[KageMaru]

Please do tell me why, though And that one game would be interesting as well.

Nico explained the "why" well enough, as for the game, that would be

Spoiler

Crysis 2

Playstation Magazine says PS4 will be faster than Xbox 720?
http://mart.ugug.co.uk/kbmindblown.gif[img][/QUOTE]

lol awesome, love that man.

[quote="tinfoilhatman, post: 34535701"]LOL I think I heard this somewhere before, let me guess dual 1080p and HDMI right?

I think Sony has their hands full with, VITA, the overall poor state of the entire company and basically all their product lines.


Good luck to you Sony I'm guessing PS4 in 2014 at best.[/QUOTE]

Sony will be just fine, there's no reason why the PS4 couldn't be their most competitive console yet.

Don't really know what you have against the company, but Sony isn't in as bad of a position as you make it seem.

 

[Marco1]

I agree, people seem to think Sony is ready for closure but they're far from it. I think Japan will ensure Sony don't close.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Xbox 720 Will Be Six Times as Powerful as Current Gen

The next Xbox will ship to retailers in late October or early November of next year with six times the processing power of the Xbox 360, sources close to the project have told IGN.

Following initial reports from tech blogs Fudzilla and SemiAccurate, our sources have confirmed that mass production of the system's GPU will indeed begin by the end of 2012 but will not, however, be based on AMD's 7000 series Southern Islands GPU. Instead, the processor will be derived from the 6000 series, which was introduced last year. More specifically, it will be akin to the Radeon HD 6670, which offers support for DirectX11, multidisplay output, 3D and 1080p HD output. The chip currently has a market price of upwards of $79.99.

In real terms, the Xbox 720's raw graphics processing power is expected to be six times that of the Xbox 360 and will yield 20-percent greater performance than Nintendo's forthcoming console, the Wii U.
Developers are likely to receive development kits based on the system's final configuration in August. Projected pricing for the console was not provided.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/01/24/xbox-720-will-be-six-times-as-powerful-as-current-gen

 

[Zen]

LOL and where is your proof of this?


You know whats funny? On B3d there was a vid from the Ghostbusters guys where the 6 year old cell smoked the i7 at physics. I still say cell or at least the SPE's will find their way into the PS4. Maybe in the manner that Gofreak preposed.

Can you find the vid or the thread?

 

[vandaliser]

LOL I think I heard this somewhere before, let me guess dual 1080p and HDMI right?

I think Sony has their hands full with, VITA, the overall poor state of the entire company and basically all their product lines.


Good luck to you Sony I'm guessing PS4 in 2014 at best.

Lol. You know nothing about sony dude

 

[Piggus]

If that rumor about the next Xbox having a 6670 equivalent is true then that's fucking pathetic. I could take one of the video cards out of my PC, throw it in the trash, and it would still be twice as powerful as that. And my cards are over a year old.

I really hope Sony doesn't follow the same trend.

 

[itsgreen]

If that rumor about the next Xbox having a 6670 equivalent is true then that's fucking pathetic. I could take one of the video cards out of my PC, throw it in the trash, and it would still be twice as powerful as that. And my cards are over a year old.

I really hope Sony doesn't follow the same trend.

To be fair the performance in a console would be a lot better, but yeah, it a sad sad move...

The saddest part will be the 449 launch price tag...

 

[weekend_warrior]

To be fair the performance in a console would be a lot better, but yeah, it a sad sad move...

The saddest part will be the 449 launch price tag...

No the saddest part will be MS spending $100 million advertising Halo 5, Modern Warefare 4, and a handful of shitty Kinect games. The next generation IS HERE!

 

[RoboPlato]

I just read the last few pages and that other thread linked and think that the single board solution is really interesting. I haven't heard much about this tech but it sounds like it'll fit well in a console. My only concern is that it would be super foreign to developers, even more so than the PS3's architecture.

 

[jimmypython]

whatever the spec it will be, please keep region unlocked....

 

[Diddy Kong]

You mean Sony didn't learn that more power doesn't mean more customers?

 

[Busty]

GB = Great Britain. Gb = Glenn Beck.

Fixed.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If that rumor about the next Xbox having a 6670 equivalent is true then that's fucking pathetic. I could take one of the video cards out of my PC, throw it in the trash, and it would still be twice as powerful as that. And my cards are over a year old.

I really hope Sony doesn't follow the same trend.

Well, the main thing to remember is that Sony doesn't have anything to rely on outside of appealing to the hardcore gamer. Move didn't do too well, so it'd be very risky to attempt to rely on a casual style to launch the system. If the rumors are true about the other systems then the best thing that they could do is launch a system that does pack a bigger punch. It certainly paid off for MS to have most of the big multiplatform games end up performing better on their system this generation, so Sony should go that route. Add in their first party catalog and that's a pretty good situation for them as long as they can keep the price down as much as possible.

 

[Dunk#7]

Xbox 720 Will Be Six Times as Powerful as Current Gen



http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/01/24/xbox-720-will-be-six-times-as-powerful-as-current-gen

This basically states that the next generation console WILL be a last generation PC. By the time it gets here it will be 2 generations behind?


I thought consoles went for bleeding edge tech so that they could stay relevant for several years.

 

[BigTnaples]

Xbox 720 Will Be Six Times as Powerful as Current Gen



http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/01/24/xbox-720-will-be-six-times-as-powerful-as-current-gen

This needs to be a rumor. It MUST be a rumor.

 

[bobbytkc]

You mean Sony didn't learn that more power doesn't mean more customers?

I hope they didn't.

CUZ I LOVE IT.

Anyway, if the 360 claims are true. You can pretty much expect only tiny leap in graphics at 60fps and 1080p. So you can pretty much throw that away next gen. 720p and 30 fps confirmed.

 

[StevieP]

This basically states that the next generation console WILL be a last generation PC. By the time it gets here it will be 2 generations behind?


I thought consoles went for bleeding edge tech so that they could stay relevant for several years.

Consoles ... bleeding edge tech... no. Clearly the term "console" has been perverted over the last couple generations. A mass market box for everyone to play is what a console is and should continue to be.

whatever the spec it will be, please keep region unlocked....

Good luck with that.

 

[dgrdsv]

You mean Sony didn't learn that more power doesn't mean more customers?

I probably won't buy a console that will have less power than a videocard in my last years PC (well, I'll buy it for $100-200 closer to the end of it's cycle to play through all the ten titles that are interesting to me). So I hope that they didn't learn that.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I probably won't buy a console that will have less power than a videocard in my last years PC (well, I'll buy it for $100-200 closer to the end of it's cycle to play through all the ten titles that are interesting to me). So I hope that they didn't learn that.

There are only two lessons that the PS3 should've taught Sony

1.) They can't release a console that costs $500-600. It gives your competition way too much of an advantage.

2.) They can't release a console that's incredibly difficult to develop for. Sure their first party devs can push the system, but it's clear that third party devs have struggled with it. The end result was that the 360 ended up having the better version of several major third party titles (Rockstar titles and CoD).

What will be the appeal of the system if they don't go with the power route? MS has Kinect, which has taken off and Nintendo has their first party titles. Sony's first party titles are great, but they can't carry a system like Nintendo's. It would be huge for Sony if it was just a given that GTA6 or CoDMWX were better on the PS4. And not just slightly better, but clearly better.

 

[Hyuga]

Well, the main thing to remember is that Sony doesn't have anything to rely on outside of appealing to the hardcore gamer. Move didn't do too well

Actually it did do well, if you talk about the sales numbers.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Yeah, wasnt PS3 expensive because of Blue Ray and not cell and certainly not the GPU? Definitley hope they go the power route. I would pay extra bob for extra power, not extra gimmick

 

[Globox_82]

the question is, how much powerful? If it is like current gen, then who cares. MS will win again. But we now hear rumors that nexbox is 6-8 times more powerful then 360 and that WiiU is twice as powerful. So is PS4 6 times more powerful then nexbox or something like 20%. That's the main question.

BTW can that EPIC samaritan demo run on rumored nextbox specs? on 6... GPU?

 

[gofreak]

I suppose I'll just throw this in here. Just the usual squirming under questioning, but a revealing mention of 'future plans that are not announced'.

So there ARE unannounced plans, huh? /obvious

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/122046...oesnt_discuss_unannounced_plans_sce_exec.html

Asked directly about Sony's plans for its next home console, Denny told Play Magazine: "The big discussion at the moment for us is our future platform, which is PlayStation Vita. That’s still the focus of our next-gen concentration."

Asked whether there'd been any internal discussion regarding PlayStation 4 at Sony, Denny replied: "We don’t discuss future plans that aren’t announced."

The PS3 will continue on for "many more years" Denny added, reiterating Sony's planned 10-year road-map for the console. Asked if a new console would be introduced after the PS3's life-cycle had come to an end, the Sony exec said: "I didn’t say anything about a new console. I was talking about the life cycle of PlayStation 3."

 

[mrklaw]

LOL I think I heard this somewhere before, let me guess dual 1080p and HDMI right?

I think Sony has their hands full with, VITA, the overall poor state of the entire company and basically all their product lines.


Good luck to you Sony I'm guessing PS4 in 2014 at best.

everyone always trots this out. Oh sony are financially screwed, Vita is a flop, PS3 lost a fortune, therefore PS4 will be a speak 'n' spell.

Why? Playstation is a key product within Sony. They can't afford to not have something there - what are they going to rely on, crappy TV sales? They might go slightly more conservative than PS3, but frankly you could release a unicorn-powered console and it'd be more conservative than PS3. Remove bluray insane launch costs and delays due to the tech not being ready, remove costs of CELL and they coudl still release a powerful machine at a reasonable cost.

Being less insane than PS3 doesn't mean crippling it.

There are only two lessons that the PS3 should've taught Sony

1.) They can't release a console that costs $500-600. It gives your competition way too much of an advantage.

2.) They can't release a console that's incredibly difficult to develop for. Sure their first party devs can push the system, but it's clear that third party devs have struggled with it. The end result was that the 360 ended up having the better version of several major third party titles (Rockstar titles and CoD).
.

I'd say that (1) is a lesson learnt from PS3, but (2) is a lesson they shoudl have already learnt from PS2. I think the situation with tools etc is much better now. PS3 did have a learning curve, but a lot of that was how to use multithreaded code efficiently, and thats a fundamental issue this gen and moving forwards, so was a general transition developers had to make.

 

[StevieP]

the question is, how much powerful? If it is like current gen, then who cares. MS will win again. But we now hear rumors that nexbox is 6-8 times more powerful then 360 and that WiiU is twice as powerful. So is PS4 6 times more powerful then nexbox or something like 20%. That's the main question.

BTW can that EPIC samaritan demo run on rumored nextbox specs? on 6... GPU?

There will be no next gen console releasing in the next 2 years with the power of an i7 2600k and 3 GTX 580s. Nor an i7 with 1 GTX 580 for that matter. Too much of a power draw on the GPU side, even at 28nm.

 

[Maxrunner]

the question is, how much powerful? If it is like current gen, then who cares. MS will win again. But we now hear rumors that nexbox is 6-8 times more powerful then 360 and that WiiU is 5 times as powerful. So is PS4 6 times more powerful then nexbox or something like 20%. That's the main question.

BTW can that EPIC samaritan demo run on rumored nextbox specs? on 6... GPU?

According to IGN.

 

[DCKing]

the question is, how much powerful? If it is like current gen, then who cares. MS will win again. But we now hear rumors that nexbox is 6-8 times more powerful then 360 and that WiiU is twice as powerful. So is PS4 6 times more powerful then nexbox or something like 20%. That's the main question.

I think the PS4 will definitely be more powerful (if only for it coming out much later). There are heavy technological constraints for Sony too, however. If it's going to be a 2014 launch, the upperbound is 2-3x the Wii U (and next Xbox?), assuming that Sony isn't going for as much of a powerhouse again.

If the Wii U and Next Xbox are not going to differentiate themselves enough from this generation it does provide an opportunity for Sony to reposition the PS3 and extend its lifecycle even further though.

 

[Mully]

How much more expensive would a PS4 be? If we're going to be using an updated Blu-Ray player and use above average CPU and GPU, should we really expect another $500-600? I'm expecting a $400 launch price, or even a $349.99.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I don't know what to believe anymore with the daily rumors floating around.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

I suppose I'll just throw this in here. Just the usual squirming under questioning, but a revealing mention of 'future plans that are not announced'.

So there ARE unannounced plans, huh? /obvious

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/122046...oesnt_discuss_unannounced_plans_sce_exec.html

Sony bowing out confirmed!

 

[i-Lo]

And people would slump the moment they learn that "theoretically, PS4 is about 20% more powerful than XBox Fusion"..... /justanotherday@gaf

This is why I love to hate rumours.

With Vita being in its infancy I don't see Sony announcing anything major about PS4. Perhaps some vague allusions at E3 and something more at TGS.

Personally, I wonder how the market demographic would be split if PS4 packs a greater punch than Nextbox but also costs a 100 dollars more.... Kind of feels like Nintendo and MS will end up forcing Sony to make a move the hardcore tech enthusiasts may not like.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

sony shooting themselves in the foot again.

 

[StevieP]

Sony would be crazy not to throw you some CG trailers claiming game footage at the end of their E3 presentation to counter MS' and Nintendo's announcements. Like they did with Motorstorm, Killzone, FF7, etc. Hopefully the CG will be more realistic this time around.

I would personally prefer no CG, but they have to show something to tease the gaming community that will be watching - even if they are a year behind MS/Nintendo.

Make no mistake, however, the majority of their E3 should be Vita-focused. They need to bring out some big guns to improve the viability of the platform for 3rd parties.

 

[H_Prestige]

How much more expensive would a PS4 be? If we're going to be using an updated Blu-Ray player and use above average CPU and GPU, should we really expect another $500-600? I'm expecting a $400 launch price, or even a $349.99.

I think they will target $350, with the idea being that $400+ puts them into super expensive territory (i.e. launch ps3, xbox 360 elite sku). Price was a huge factor in Vita's design so I expect it will be for ps4 as well. They will also not want a repeat of the $599 fiasco.

I also think there is zero chance of anything ps4 related at e3. If anyone asks Sony will just go with the usual "vita is our focus and ps3 has a ten year life" response. I don't expect anything from MS' side either.

 

[JerzeyDevil]

Sony would be crazy not to throw you some CG trailers claiming game footage at the end of their E3 presentation to counter MS' and Nintendo's announcements. Like they did with Motorstorm, Killzone, FF7, etc. Hopefully the CG will be more realistic this time around.

I would personally prefer no CG, but they have to show something to tease the gaming community that will be watching - even if they are a year behind MS/Nintendo.

Make no mistake, however, the majority of their E3 should be Vita-focused. They need to bring out some big guns to improve the viability of the platform for 3rd parties.

Focusing on mostly Vita @.E3 would be a massive mistake on Sony's part, especially in the West where the handheld market is shrinking daily in favor of smartphones.

Sony needs to focus on PS3. Drop the price to $199 and showoff a ton of games, so those people considering a Wii U and 720 have more incentive to wait it out and see what PS3 has to offer.

 

[Maxrunner]

I hope sony continues with more sheer horsepower DNA methodology even though the master has long departed the playstation division.

My dream ps4 specs. All under the hood basically

32 spu Cell 2.0 @ 4ghz
16 GB XDR 2 connected to cell at full processor speed.
16x 500 GB Blu-ray drive

Don't care what GPU they use as long they nerf it as they did with the RSX to save costs

lol

 

[i-Lo]

I think they will target $350, with the idea being that $400+ puts them into super expensive territory (i.e. launch ps3, xbox 360 elite sku). Price was a huge factor in Vita's design so I expect it will be for ps4 as well. They will also not want a repeat of the $599 fiasco.

I can bet they will be pricing between 450-500. If the launch line up is worth it then most early adopter will jump in. Given that inflation only goes up, it'll be a bargain compared to PS3. Personally, the software has to back up the initial price with a roadmap of price drops every 6 to 8 months.

If they do have a higher price tag than the competitors then another method of cultivating a lead is an earlier launch than nextbox. It'll also allow for 3rd parties to use PS4 as the lead platform next gen (given that this time around Sony is actually developing PS4 based on the feedback of devs).

Let us not delude ourselves into believing that if are to demand awe inspiring performance, it will come at a price.

 

[KageMaru]

Regarding Sony's next platform, someone at B3D had this to say:

I'd very surprised if SONY hasn't finalized the specs by now. Different reliable background sources point at a very specific solution, but I've no intention to go into any specifics since I promised confidentiality. If those are for real I guess many will be quite surprised since the usual expectations I've read about it so far are either exaggerated or idiotically high.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1615081&postcount=53

I have no idea how reliable the poster is, though he seems to know what he's talking about in other posts. I even commented on how I hope it's at least faster than the 720's specs and he said my hopes were too high =/

Actually it did do well, if you talk about the sales numbers.

The problem with Move is that there is no easy way to determine the actual install base. Yeah sales can be good but when each wand is considered a sale, it greatly effects the important stats.

I think the PS4 will definitely be more powerful (if only for it coming out much later). There are heavy technological constraints for Sony too, however. If it's going to be a 2014 launch, the upperbound is 2-3x the Wii U (and next Xbox?), assuming that Sony isn't going for as much of a powerhouse again.

If the Wii U and Next Xbox are not going to differentiate themselves enough from this generation it does provide an opportunity for Sony to reposition the PS3 and extend its lifecycle even further though.

Sony said they want to launch alongside the other systems. It's highly likely the ps4 will launch the same time as the Xbox.

 

[Patapwn]

sony shooting themselves in the foot again.

Why? Assuming the rumor is true and the ps4 is more powerful than the nextbox, how does that equate to shooting oneself in the foot?

 

[slider]

Why? Assuming the rumor is true and the ps4 is more powerful than the nextbox, how does that equate to shooting oneself in the foot?

If the PS4 is more powerful I'll be there day one. But, I've a feeling that the cheapest priced next gen console will be the one with the greatest market-share. Whilst you could argue only folk like those who post on Gaf are the ones that care about sales-age and a manufacturer only cares about profitability it's fair to say market-share does have a trickle down affect on all sorts of things.

 

[Snubbers]

If the PS4 is more powerful I'll be there day one. But, I've a feeling that the cheapest priced next gen console will be the one with the greatest market-share. Whilst you could argue only folk like those who post on Gaf are the ones that care about sales-age and a manufacturer only cares about profitability it's fair to say market-share does have a trickle down affect on all sorts of things.

It's not necessarily whether PS4 is more 'powerful' then the nextbox, it's more that it's a much more synergistic system design that is far more sympathetic to developers, if they get that right, and obviously keep improving PSN to be a real rival to XBL on every level, I'll probably bite day 1 myself, something i'm not currently planning on doing for either next gen console at the moment.

 

[Patapwn]

If the PS4 is more powerful I'll be there day one. But, I've a feeling that the cheapest priced next gen console will be the one with the greatest market-share. Whilst you could argue only folk like those who post on Gaf are the ones that care about sales-age and a manufacturer only cares about profitability it's fair to say market-share does have a trickle down affect on all sorts of things.

You have to keep in mind the various strategies Nintendo and even MS will follow next gen. We know the WiiU will utilize a tablet (basically) and MS will most probably do a kinect follow up. These things cost money to standardize upping the initial costs. It's possible the tablet and kinect 2 bust for their respective companies and sony capitalizes on their more powerful console at the same price to take home the win.

Of course this is all armchair hypothetical, but it displays how a more advanced console with competitive pricing could attract the most marketshare.

Which is why I asked how a more powerful console immediately spells doom 'shooting oneself in the foot' etc. for sony or any of the companies for that matter. It's very premature prediction founded on nothing as far as I can tell

 

[Elios83]

How much more expensive would a PS4 be? If we're going to be using an updated Blu-Ray player and use above average CPU and GPU, should we really expect another $500-600? I'm expecting a $400 launch price, or even a $349.99.

The era of huge R&D is over.
They can use an updated Cell and a Kepler mid-range GPU put together in a 28nm SOC.
Add 4GB of memory, a cheap Blu Ray drive with support to quad layer discs, a new controller with a touch pad, a 250GB hard drive and launch at 399$.
The big question mark is if both Nintendo and Microsoft want to cater to the masses at day one. In that case they need 250$ products at launch and a Sony hich tech box sold at 399$ would of course be a slow seller compared to the competion which is something that Sony might not want.

 

[LosDaddie]

Which is why I asked how a more powerful console immediately spells doom 'shooting oneself in the foot' etc. for sony or any of the companies for that matter. It's very premature prediction founded on nothing as far as I can tell

I'd be surprised if either the PS4 or X720 end up being more powerful than the other. I suspect both console will have the same parity, as the PS3 & X360 do now.