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[dirtywhirlwind]

What games aren't time wasters though? Are there three games that gave you a thought provoking story or perhaps helped you create something artistically? Did you win one of those contests for beating a game in a certain amount of time and thus something physical came out of it? Exercise/fitness game?

I'm not questioning your view on games being a time waster or not or disliking such a thing, I'm just curious on what is out there that you believe provides something of value beyond just enjoyment for your spent time.

I love games, but other than Your Shape and whatever I use to help inspire me in art design, they are all to "waste time" rather than be working.

Well, you know what, I am more of a story > gameplay kind of guy these days. It's the very complete opposite of what I was a few years ago.

And story and characterization is definitely the red thread here. I guess I am at point where I've played it all and some small variations to the formula just reminds me that I probably should work instead. But great, captivating storytelling, you never grow too old for that.

I know, read a book and all that. And I do, but I am convinced and believe that gaming has the capacity and potential to be pretty damn awesome in that field. So why not let it.

 

[Alchemy]

Ooooh, I have a good one!

My opinion is correct and yours is wrong.

 

[Jimrpg]

Heavy Rain was the worst game I've ever played.

 

[weekend_warrior]

The Playstation was one of the worst things that has ever happened to the industry and alot, if not all of the problems we have today would have been avoided if the PSX had never come out. I'm talking in terms of marketing, demographics, trying to be "cool" and "edgey" etc.

You spelled Xbox wrong.

 

[Loofy]

Super Mario World is freakin terrible. Easily one the worst main mario games, probably worse than NSMB. It boggles the mind that anyone can say its better than SMB2 or Yoshi's Island.

 

[Kokonoe]

Capcom is worse than Activision.

 

[wickedcapedkid]

Is one of the greatest JRPGs of all time.

?!?!?!?!

I'm not mad or disgusted, just um, surprised.

 

[Troidal]

Since I just completed Portal 2, and has also been awarded NeoGAF #1 Game of 2011, here it goes...

From a gameplay perspective, I felt it was a mere extension of the first game. Clever perhaps, but I also felt like the whole painting the floor or walls (to allow use of portals) was more of a diversion. And it was fairly obvious where you should be throwing the paint at. The single tiles that allowed use of portal were already marked for you, so all you had to do was "Ok, I just need to paint the floor/walls from this tile to that tile" and you more or less solved the puzzle.

And now in regards to the characters or the narrative. This has to do more with my preferences, first of all, I hated the fact that they threw you into this retro-60s 70s experiment lab. What's with America's obsession on these eras lately, this is not even limited to games from the looks of it. Sure, the pure white futuristic rooms got old, but changing the aesthetics into this retro thing wasn't just my liking. Second, Wheatley was just annoying. Maybe that was the point of it all, but the Ricky Gervais-type humor is not my kind of humor. He almost ruined my gaming experience, it's like one of those things even in TV dramas or movies where you have characters you hate not because of their character/personality, but simply because you find them to be simply annoying. Wheatley was like that for me.

It is so difficult to be subjective about Portal 2, I almost want to say I like Portal 1 better because it was just perfect, setting was simple yet nice, and no annoying characters and length was short but just right. Portal 2 tried to be more complex, felt like a drag in the middle with the paint jobs, and there was that one annoying character. So yeah, a decent game, but definitely not GOTY 2011 for me.

 

[Im_So_Pringles]

Call of Duty is single-handedly ruining the action game genre. Every shooter out there is now trying to dip their hands into their player base by introducing multiplayer components that don't need to be there, and games are also going for scripted world spanning campaigns that make no sense. Also, COD introduced the masses to an RPG like multiplayer progression that every single multiplayer game since has tried to copy.

*raises flame shield*

 

[Rookie]

Rayman origins is the breath of fresh air, that this generation needed.

 

[Phonomezer]

Since I just completed Portal 2, and has also been awarded NeoGAF #1 Game of 2011, here it goes...

From a gameplay perspective, I felt it was a mere extension of the first game. Clever perhaps, but I also felt like the whole painting the floor or walls (to allow use of portals) was more of a diversion. And it was fairly obvious where you should be throwing the paint at. The single tiles that allowed use of portal were already marked for you, so all you had to do was "Ok, I just need to paint the floor/walls from this tile to that tile" and you more or less solved the puzzle.

And now in regards to the characters or the narrative. This has to do more with my preferences, first of all, I hated the fact that they threw you into this retro-60s 70s experiment lab. What's with America's obsession on these eras lately, this is not even limited to games from the looks of it. Sure, the pure white futuristic rooms got old, but changing the aesthetics into this retro thing wasn't just my liking. Second, Wheatley was just annoying. Maybe that was the point of it all, but the Ricky Gervais-type humor is not my kind of humor. He almost ruined my gaming experience, it's like one of those things even in TV dramas or movies where you have characters you hate not because of their character/personality, but simply because you find them to be simply annoying. Wheatley was like that for me.

It is so difficult to be subjective about Portal 2, I almost want to say I like Portal 1 better because it was just perfect, setting was simple yet nice, and no annoying characters and length was short but just right. Portal 2 tried to be more complex, felt like a drag in the middle with the paint jobs, and there was that one annoying character. So yeah, a decent game, but definitely not GOTY 2011 for me.

Agree 100%

Portal 2 is incredibly overrated on GAF.

 

[Mr_eX]

A lot(all?) of you will disagree with me but I don't really see traditional JRPGs as video games anymore. They're pretty much just spreadsheets with graphics and a story with no real gameplay to speak of.

I know it's not a rational opinion to have but there you have it.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Rayman origins is the breath of fresh air, that this generation needed.

You won't find much argument here regarding that. I'll eventually have to throw my dollars at the French for this.

 

[squidyj]

I would rather have another Heavy Rain or LA Noire than the next Call of Duty, Dragon Age, or Skyrim.

Both titles have left more of an impression on me than any of the other games listed. games like skyrim might have content for forever but I haven't touched it in a few weeks now and I don't really care about anything that I did in the game, I don't really look back fondly on what happened or anything like that. Likewise I'd rather see games try for new things and fail than bask in their own mediocrity.

 

[Odrion]

Quite honestly I care more about how someone presents their opinion than the actual opinion itself. If you write at least a nice, mildly-well thought out opinion about something I absolutely disagree with. I'll consider and respect it.

 

[PinkCrayon]

A lot(all?) of you will disagree with me but I don't really see traditional JRPGs as video games anymore. They're pretty much just spreadsheets with graphics and a story with no real gameplay to speak of.

I know it's not a rational opinion to have but there you have it.

Sounds about right.

 

[Eusis]

- I think just about every design decision has its place, it's all a matter of how you use it, whether it's regenerating health or NO way to restore health at all, random encounters or set encounters, or even locked and unlocked saves.

- I also think standardized achievements are one of the worst general additions to gaming, largely because of how overvalued they are for what's just a fun extra. Especially when people seriously skip/get games over them rather than only using them as an excuse to 100% a game or mix up their playing style more, and because Sony's implementation of them has been kind of half assed. Not so much the trophy system being flawed as how it went from optional to mandatory, there's no way to disable notifications so I'll have to deal with them even in games like Heavy Rain and Flower where they're jarring and spoil the immersion, and as is usual for Sony inconsistencies between regions and how they want to approach trophies means PSP remasters may be left in Japan despite the fact they seem like THE way to get PSP games to sell better here.

That, and I'm just not a fan of standardizing anything but essentials (and some, like save systems, don't need to be standardized beyond a certain extent anyway), every game can have different ways of doing achievements that works best for it, and more often those (like in Xenoblade) will actually reward you whereas that's a rarity for Xbox games, sometimes I suspect it's even actively discouraged. On the plus side, Steam generally does a good job of making it worthwhile to earn them for the metagame, and I don't think they require them like Microsoft/Sony do!

- Also, I think a lot of the time when people attack a game it really doesn't deserve to be trashed as badly as it is. For every Big Rigs that's just fundamentally busted there's a lot of games like Final Fantasy VIII that are treated as one of the worst games ever when, at most, they're a disappointing but competently made game. I can better understand if a game at least takes a series or even genre into directions they don't like, but even then those games ARE still very well made more often than not.

Separate from my own opinions, yeah, I actually do kind of feel like Portal 2 is a bit overrated, and I voted for it was one of my top ten games of the year! It's got a lot of great moments and writing, which is enough to put it in the top ten for me, but when it comes down to my most favorite games last year it just doesn't compare.

 

[JerzeyDevil]

Ridge Racer Type 4 is the best racing game ever made.

 

[Gustav]

I have a bad one: SNES has one of the worst game libraries of all consoles.

I can think of only two SNES games I'm interested in: Shadowrun and Donkey Kong Country.

 

[whalleywhat]

Quite honestly I care more about how someone presents their opinion than the actual opinion itself. If you write at least a nice, mildly-well thought out opinion about something I absolutely disagree with. I'll consider and respect it.

THIS IS WRONG AND YOU'RE A BAD PERSON.

 

[Tain]

I have a bad one. SNES has one of the worst game libraries of all consoles.

I can think of only two SNES games I'm interested in: Shadowrun and Donkey Kong Country.

Coming from someone who currently puts the SNES library in the third place of its generation: that's pretty wild.

 

[Joni]

Sony inconsistencies between regions and how they want to approach trophies means PSP remasters may be left in Japan despite the fact they seem like THE way to get PSP games to sell better here.

The only real PSP Remaster has been Monster Hunter Portable 3rd, a game that would never appear here. There have been more non-PSP Remaster PSP games ported to PS3 than PSP Remastered games. (Peace Walker, the God of War PSP games)

 

[Eusis]

The only real PSP Remaster has been Monster Hunter Portable 3rd, a game that would never appear here. There have been more non-PSP Remaster PSP games ported to PS3 than PSP Remastered games. (Peace Walker, the God of War PSP games)

It does sound like it's a sticking point for Capcom USA (but maybe they'll surprise us and announce Monster Hunter Freedom 3 for PSP or PS Vita?), and I do sort of wonder if more would've gotten on board if it meant higher western sales. But yeah, it may just be a program that goes no where, kind of like New Play Control but floundering even more. Plus the inverse is plausible, that Sony wouldn't allow MHP3 HD BECAUSE there weren't a sufficient number of these games to bother with one exception.

 

[Des0lar]

I can't play most JRPGs because the stories are just so horrible and I hate nearly every character in a JPRG. Don't get me started on character design. Ugh.

 

[Kentpaul]

I think the Iphone is the best portable gaming device ever made.

 

[Eusis]

I can't play most JRPGs because the stories are just so horrible and I hate nearly every character in a JPRG. Don't get me started on character design. Ugh.

I generally enjoy the genre but I'm half way to agreeing there much of the time. Voice acting has been the genre's bane more often than not, the only reason I've been frustrated at SE cutting most VA from Valkyrie Profile DS is because the premium price IMPLIES we're getting premium treatment, such as the larger cart with VA on it. If they released the game at $30 without VA much like Atlus and Growlanser IV I would barely be able to give a damn, even $35 would just be sort of disappointing.

I think the Iphone is the best portable gaming device ever made.

Make that one change, and I think I could actually agree. I don't like playing most games on it, but just going by the iPod Touch I love using it as a music player and as a sort of internet swiss army knife, and 3G would only make that better.

 

[SpiffyG]

I really don't see why both of these new Batman games are so good.

 

[TaroYamada]

Coming from someone who currently puts the SNES library in the third place of its generation: that's pretty wild.

Behind the TG16? or NeoGeo? What's first? What's fourth?

 

[Odrion]

Oh and.

Even thought FPSers are getting stale, and it's saturating the market, I always liked first-person over third. It's the purest view, nothing to baby sit, nothing is blocking your view, and it lets you get a closer look with the world. I always found first person mods for GTA games extremely exciting, and alone worth double dipping. It's pretty depressing that it seems that any game that chooses to go first person feels the need to become a FPSer (sans Skyrim.) Mirror's Edge. :\

Which reminds me. I always found platforming segments in FPSers to be really fun. Yes, even with Turok. It feels like you're at risk, and there's a sense of vertigo and dread when you're stuck up somewhere high. It sucks that this has disappeared as well, sigh console shooters.

 

[Joni]

It does sound like it's a sticking point for Capcom USA (but maybe they'll surprise us and announce Monster Hunter Freedom 3 for PSP or PS Vita?), and I do sort of wonder if more would've gotten on board if it meant higher western sales. But yeah, it may just be a program that goes no where, kind of like New Play Control but floundering even more. Plus the inverse is plausible, that Sony wouldn't allow MHP3 HD BECAUSE there weren't a sufficient number of these games to bother with one exception.

What would be stopping them to add Trophies? SCEA and SCEE obviously don't have problems with it. I think if we see more PSP games get ported, they'll get the God of War treatment instead of the MH treatment. Trophies sell. Capcom just doesn't seem to get 'Trophies' considering how they handled the Resi ports.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

I suppose mine would be that the original Xbox gets a lot more hate than it deserves. Sure, the console itself was ugly, and the original controller was pretty oversized, but it was host to a lot of great exclusives, had the best online experience, and pretty much every multi-platform game looked and sounded better on it, even if the difference was sometimes marginal. I always got multi-plats for it because of this and its improved online functionality, which ended with me actually having a few more Xbox than PS2 games.

Here's a list of games that are either Xbox-exclusive or were significantly better on Xbox (see: extra modes and/or online play). No, I didn't count the PC versions, sorry. Oh, and yes, I did use GameRankings to find a lot of these games; I just needed a memory jog. I owned pretty much every game here anyway.

Halo 1 +2
Ninja Gaiden Black
SW: KOTOR 1 and 2
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
PGR 1 and 2
Phantom Dust
Links 2004
Amped 1 and 2
JSRF
MechAssault 1 and 2
Burnout 3 + Revenge
Rainbow Six 3
Forza Motorsport
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Shenmue 2 (only version in NA)
TES III: Morrowind
Jade Empire
Crimson Skies
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2X (Best version, though 3 came later than PS2)
Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay
Top Spin
Rallisport Challenge 1 and 2
Doom 3 (co-op is Xbox exclusive)
Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
Moto GP 1 and 2
Unreal Championship 1 and 2
Ghost Recon (first online game for me!)
Dead or Alive 3
Dead or Alive Ultimate
Fable
Deus Ex: Invisible War (Depending on if you live in a universe where it wasn't wiped from the record, lol. Many liked it, though)
Guilty Gear X2 (Online play!)
Return to Castle Wolfenstein (Online play!)
Metal Arms: Glitch in the System
Otogi 1 and 2
Sega GT 2002
Kingdom Under Fire
Theif: Deadly Shadows
Buffy: The Vampire Slayer
Star Wars: Republic Commando
SW Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast + Jedi Academy
Conker: Live & Reloaded
Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth
Armed and Dangerous
Tetris Worlds (Online Edition) (Guilty pleasure of mine)
Stubbs the Zombie
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
American McGee's Scrapland

All of this in only four years. Between these and the 3rd party multiplatform games, there was plenty to get people entertained for four years--don't let haters tell you otherwise.

 

[Galactic Fork]

I prefer random encounters in RPGs over seeing enemies on the screen.

 

[Dead Man]

I suppose mine would be that the original Xbox gets a lot more hate than it deserves. Sure, the console itself was ugly, and the original controller was pretty oversized, but it was host to a lot of great exclusives, had the best online experience, and pretty much every multi-platform game looked and sounded better on it, even if the difference was sometimes marginal. I always got multi-plats for it because of this and its improved online functionality, which ended with me actually having a few more Xbox than PS2 games.

Here's a list of games that are either Xbox-exclusive or were significantly better on Xbox (see: extra modes and/or online play). No, I didn't count the PC versions, sorry. Oh, and yes, I did use GameRankings to find a lot of these games; I just needed a memory jog. I owned pretty much every game here anyway.

That is why I hate the Xbox. It was a fine console on its own, but the business practises drove me nuts. I know Sony had exlusives up the arse, and it was the standard model for decades, but I don't think you can say it was great console becuase the company that produced it bought exclusives.

I have a bad one: SNES has one of the worst game libraries of all consoles.

I can think of only two SNES games I'm interested in: Shadowrun and Donkey Kong Country.

What the fuck? I don't even understand how you can make that statement. You mean in terms of wanting to play them now? Because I can't fathom someone who was gaming in the early 90's who could make that claim.

 

[iapetus]

Alundra is still the best Zelda game since the SNES.
Shenmue is tedious.
Doom is the best FPS of all time.
Panzer Dragoon Saga was a linear snoozefest with a tedious battle system.
Apple is the biggest threat to gaming in ages.

 

[Tain]

The original Xbox led to some great games. Enough for me to still bother with it today. I was playing Steel Battalion this afternoon.

Behind the TG16? or NeoGeo? What's first? What's fourth?

Right now, I put best to worst as NeoGeo, Genesis, SNES, TG16. I'm not as well-versed with TG16 as I'd like to be, though.

 

[qq more]

Alundra is still the best Zelda game since the SNES.
Shenmue is tedious.
Doom is the best FPS of all time.
Panzer Dragoon Saga was a linear snoozefest with a tedious battle system.

This shouldn't be controversial because it's still a god damn great game. High five!


Also, I should check out Alundra someday. I keep hearing how good it is lately and I've been in the Zelda mood...

 

[beastmode]

fable series has superior narrative and quality of writing compared to uncharted.

unlocking achievements is stupid. when you die you will regret not using the time to do something a lot more enjoyable than getting more GamerScore and jpgs.

banjo-kazooie: nuts & bolts is among the most important games ever: it has you solve problems by creating solutions, not finding the one solution (or few) the developer thought of. rare's greatest game.

metal gear solid 3
-really great gameplay. get used to the controls and learning curve, people.
-terrible story. skip the cutscenes.
-you miss out on a lot if you don't use the original snake eater camera. play the game this way at least once (preferably the first time.)

crysis
-360 port's controls ruin the game. if you can't play it on pc, wait until you get the chance.
-stop playing once you enter a mine... seriously, after that the game becomes terrible.
-replay the good missions and try to approach them in different ways while working on your skills. the better you become at this game the more you will enjoy it.

I really don't see why both of these new Batman games are so good.

first game has really great stealth sections, decent melee combat, and good bosses (ok, not joker, ivy, or the final titan goons) in a "metroidvania" package. cutscenes and art direction are weaknesses. was completely under the radar before release, then became a surprise hit.

second game replaced a good metroidvania structure with a weak open world, expanded melee combat, lessened stealth, and added a shitty catwoman sidestory. art direction is just as tasteless as asylum and while the story is an improvement, it's still pretty bad. a disappointment if you ask me.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

That is why I hate the Xbox. It was a fine console on its own, but the business practises drove me nuts. I know Sony had exlusives up the arse, and it was the standard model for decades, but I don't think you can say it was great console becuase the company that produced it bought exclusives.



What the fuck? I don't even understand how you can make that statement. You mean in terms of wanting to play them now? Because I can't fathom someone who was gaming in the early 90's who could make that claim.

A company's practices have nothing to do with how I, as a consumer, perceive a product--barring things like slave labour, of course. It's not like MS forced publishers to make exclusives; they accepted deals. So MS benefits and the publisher benefits. The only real loser is Sony, and I have no loyalty to a company, so I couldn't care less. I suppose you could say that PS2 gamers are "hurt" by not having a game or mode, but, again, it's not MS's responsibility to make their competitor's system better. It's a completely fair business practice, in my mind.

Also, a lot of online-mode exclusives were probably there because MS straight-up had better infrastructure that didn't put all of the onus on the publishers to set everything up. *shrug* Either way, not my problem.

 

[Eusis]

What would be stopping them to add Trophies? SCEA and SCEE obviously don't have problems with it. I think if we see more PSP games get ported, they'll get the God of War treatment instead of the MH treatment. Trophies sell. Capcom just doesn't seem to get 'Trophies' considering how they handled the Resi ports.

It sounds like trophies really aren't THAT simple, not to mention the fact data is to be shared between PSP and PS3 freely, thus either forcing people who ever put the save on PSP to give up on earning more trophies because of the risk of hacking undermining the whole thing, or not even get trophies to begin with due to bringing in a PSP save. Besides, this is EXACTLY what I was getting at about not liking standardized achievements/trophies, they can be fun to get, but they shouldn't matter so much as to potentially block games from release, and I wish people didn't see them as so important they'd actually avoid a game entirely over lacking them despite it being something they'd want otherwise. Especially when they're more of a cheap gimmick than a game changing feature like online play.

 

[danmaku]

Well, you know what, I am more of a story > gameplay kind of guy these days. It's the very complete opposite of what I was a few years ago.

And story and characterization is definitely the red thread here. I guess I am at point where I've played it all and some small variations to the formula just reminds me that I probably should work instead. But great, captivating storytelling, you never grow too old for that.

I know, read a book and all that. And I do, but I am convinced and believe that gaming has the capacity and potential to be pretty damn awesome in that field. So why not let it.

Usually storytelling in videogames means not letting the player actually play the game because he may ruin the story. Creating an interactive story is not impossible, but it's very hard to do it right. The Last Express is a good example.

 

[Ignignort]

Final Fantasy VIII is the best in the series.

That's the only one I have really

 

[Night_Trekker]

Here's one: Final Fantasy is impossible to take seriously anymore. My capacity for a suspension of disbelief isn't strong enough to overcome the awful character designs (for starters).

I suppose mine would be that the original Xbox gets a lot more hate than it deserves. Sure, the console itself was ugly, and the original controller was pretty oversized, but it was host to a lot of great exclusives, had the best online experience, and pretty much every multi-platform game looked and sounded better on it, even if the difference was sometimes marginal. I always got multi-plats for it because of this and its improved online functionality, which ended with me actually having a few more Xbox than PS2 games.

As far as I am concerned, what you said is undeniable fact.

Super Mario World is freakin terrible. Easily one the worst main mario games, probably worse than NSMB. It boggles the mind that anyone can say its better than SMB2 or Yoshi's Island.

I have always had an uncomfortable relationship with SMW. Something about it just feels "wrong" to me. I recognize its excellent design and great soundtrack, but I just can't love it the way most gamers do. Maybe the best way to describe it is that it doesn't feel as cohesive in design as most of the other mainline Mario games? I don't know.

Usually storytelling in videogames means not letting the player actually play the game because he may ruin the story. Creating an interactive story is not impossible, but it's very hard to do it right. The Last Express is a good example.

This is nonsense. What you mean is that some degree of authorial control is necessary for developers to tell a traditional narrative story through a game (not all stories have to be structured or told in a traditional way), with the implication that ever taking any measure of control away from the player means the player isn't really playing the game anymore. That's just nonsense, but it's a popular opinion that is assumed to be true by many. I don't know why. Maybe the same people think every game should be open-world, since maximizing player control and choice means "real gaming."

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Quite honestly I care more about how someone presents their opinion than the actual opinion itself. If you write at least a nice, mildly-well thought out opinion about something I absolutely disagree with. I'll consider and respect it.

But why do that when you can insult other people for having different preferences than you and then still somehow be taken seriously in other threads?

 

[Night_Trekker]

But why do that when you can insult other people for having different preferences than you and then still somehow be taken seriously in other threads?

ShockingAlberto, has anyone ever told you that you are too reasonable for this forum?

I know, read a book and all that. And I do, but I am convinced and believe that gaming has the capacity and potential to be pretty damn awesome in that field. So why not let it.

Because deviation from traditional gaming experiences annoys and outright threatens many people who just want the same old, mindless fun forever. People making games they don't like would mean less games they like, and they believe they're owed "real games" (i.e. the same old shit).

Example: motion control backlash. "Motion controls are ruining gaming." That bullshit is all over GAF.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

Because deviation from traditional gaming experiences annoys and outright threatens many people who just want the same old, mindless fun forever. People making games they don't like would mean less games they like, and they believe they're owed "real games" (i.e. the same old shit).

Example: motion control backlash. "Motion controls are ruining gaming." That bullshit is all over GAF.

I'm all for the Heavy Rains of the world--motion gaming, too! But I couldn't get more than a couple of hours into Heavy Rain, personally, because the tension was so high, so often that I had constant anxiety almost all of the time. I had to quit because I was stressing so much :S.

I prefer literature in this sense, because then I guess I don't have the guilt of "doing it wrong", hurting a character I like, or altering the story in a way I don't like; I can just read the story stress-free. So it's not really a "horror" thing so much as it's just too much responsibility for the characters and direction of the story. I should note that I don't have this problem with most games with branching stories because the narrative is so surreal or over-the-top insane, but HR was just too real to me, I suppose.

I'll likely have the same problem with games of that type in the future, but I'm all for them if that's what people enjoy. There's room for everybody in my gaming universe. <3.

 

[Night_Trekker]

I'm all for the Heavy Rains of the world--motion gaming, too! But I couldn't get more than a couple of hours into Heavy Rain, personally, because the tension was so high, so often that I had constant anxiety almost all of the time. I had to quit because I was stressing so much :S.

I prefer literature in this sense, because then I guess I don't have the guilt of "doing it wrong", hurting a character I like, or altering the story in a way I don't like; I can just read the story stress-free. So it's not really a "horror" thing so much as it's just too much responsibility for the characters and direction of the story. I should note that I don't have this problem with most games with branching stories because the narrative is so surreal or over-the-top insane, but HR was just too real to me, I suppose.

I'll likely have the same problem with games of that type in the future, but I'm all for them if that's what people enjoy. There's room for everybody in my gaming universe. <3.

For what it's worth, I haven't played Heavy Rain. I sort of want to, but Indigo Prophecy was such a huge disappointment to me (after a very promising initial few hours), and I've heard so much backlash around here, that my enthusiasm has really waned.

I hear you, though. Interactivity adds a whole new dimension of possibilities to storytelling, and sometimes you just want a good ol' linear narrative. I love those, too. That's why I am a big defender of linearity and (the proper use of) cutscenes in some, not all, games. It just seems sometimes like anything that deviates from the braindead adolescent male power fantasies, or the ways we've traditionally played those traditional games, is a huge threat to gamers who really should know better by now. The stuff we play and love is always going to be around, no matter what that is. If they're the types of games that helped make video games a popular, well-loved hobby in the first place, you can be doubly sure of that!

 

[Odrion]

While Indigo Prophecy was only good in the beginning, that beginning justified the existence of that game for me. The tension, the setting was perfect for someone that just started playing: you're immediately panicked, clumsily moving around, any mistake you make terrifies you. You don't know what happens if you fail, so you let your imagination take over. And then afterwards you

Spoiler

play as the police who report to the crime scene, finding all of the mistakes you made.

It was a brilliant small slice that could stand on it's own, like Gravity Bone. I really hope it inspires future designers.

I kind of feel the same way for Heavy Rain. There's quite some stuff in there that I found laughable, confusing, or frustrating (I fucking shook the six-axis!) But it was worth it for those moments of frightening escalation and high tension that provoked feelings of dread that I never had before.

They're not great games, I guess, but I'm happy they happened and I'm excited to think of what they could inspire.

 

[Night_Trekker]

While Indigo Prophecy was only good in the beginning, that beginning justified the existence of that game for me. I hope it inspires future designers.

I agree, actually. Similarly to my personal feelings about Rez (but for different reasons), I think IP/F is a game every gamer should experience, even if I don't think it's ultimately a very good game.

But damn does IP's story go down in flames rapidly. I was warned ahead of time, and even then I was shocked by how insultingly bad it got.

 

[beastmode]

Because deviation from traditional gaming experiences annoys and outright threatens many people who just want the same old, mindless fun forever. People making games they don't like would mean less games they like, and they believe they're owed "real games" (i.e. the same old shit).

Example: motion control backlash. "Motion controls are ruining gaming." That bullshit is all over GAF.

what's this got to do with video game narratives? most people complain about them because by and large they are terrible and done inefficiently. who are these dense neckbeards that would prefer portal to share the structure and style of a mario game?

 

[Eusis]

Because deviation from traditional gaming experiences annoys and outright threatens many people who just want the same old, mindless fun forever. People making games they don't like would mean less games they like, and they believe they're owed "real games" (i.e. the same old shit).

Example: motion control backlash. "Motion controls are ruining gaming." That bullshit is all over GAF.

Personally, my beef has traditionally been more about execution. I'm generally gameplay>story, BUT it's really not that black and white. It's more the idea of using it primarily as a story telling medium can be misguided, moreso when you don't try to even do anything interesting for story interactivity or blurring the lines, and worse yet try to fit within a traditional design mindset only to bog yourself down with bad gameplay or even just frustrating people who want to see how it continues or ends through gameplay choke points (Xenoblade was kind of frustrating there). On the flipside, some of my favorite games have been gameplay centric ones... with a bit of VERY engaging story material sprinkled in. Vagrant Story is close to that, though it's more on the story focused spectrum, but the same goes for SMT: Nocturne and Dark Souls. SMT:N has a strange, unreal world and a fascinating tale about shaping the new world, whereas Dark Souls isn't just dropping you in some generic fantasy land, it has a dark foreboding atmosphere reinforced by what story tidbits you gleam from NPCs or items/equipment you pick up. Hell, Dark Souls is one of the cases where I most wanted to discover more about the world, and a lot of it is left to your imagination, especially the ramifications of your choice at the end.

I do, however, feel the notion a game MUST have story in it as a serious focus is completely and horrifically misguided. Let's contrast Sonic Team efforts with Super Mario Galaxy. Sonic 2006 is an outright abomination by most accounts, trying for some sort of FF-style story in what should've remained a light hearted fun platformer series, and even later games that don't trip as badly still have more than they probably should, and similarly NiGHTS Wii is wrecked half because of a ton of awful and unskippable cutscenes staring creepy doll children, so if you're having trouble with a part of the game and want to put it down, hey, you have to watch that again! Nevermind people who just want to PLAY A GAME having to put up with the stupid drama unfolding. Meanwhile Super Mario Galaxy, while still having more than Miyamoto would apparently prefer, keeps a small, endearing story to the side that you can pursue at your leisure, or ignore entirely for the main game. The former is the purest representation of WHY some of us are so cynical about story telling in games, and the latter shows how to smartly add a bit to a gameplay focused title.

Then there's games that aren't AWFUL, but may've focused on story at the expense of gameplay. Final Fantasy XIII's story doesn't really allow anything BUT forwards momentum with no looking back, yet it doesn't really make for the best RPG so maybe it should've been saved for some sort of action RPG spin off or something, and Zelda seems to have become increasingly linear the more story and event focused it becomes, yet for the increased focus on telling a story they really aren't getting significantly better or more interesting than Link's Awakening or Majora's Mask, usually I'd rather they stopped throwing that bone to the cinematic JRPG fans and focus that kind of effort on NPC sidequests instead while loosening up the main game more and tying progress in that more to items again.