Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I really liked the books up to that point, but Jaime in ASOS was where it really clicked for me the first time through.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
- Start date
- Status
I really liked the books up to that point, but Jaime in ASOS was where it really clicked for me the first time through.
George's triumph: the Lannisters*.
*will conveniently ignore cersei if needed
I think it's all the pent-up lust from falling out with his sister. Dude was probably having wet dreams about the Maid of Tarth again.Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
WeAreStarStuff
Member
I really like what GRRM has done with Jamie's character. The contrast between the man pushing a child out of a window, compared to a man jumping into a bear pit with no weapon to save someone is amazing.
I think prior to ADWD coming out, most thought he was just filling out history. But now with the Golden Company being a key part of the series and Bloodraven popping up, it seems the D&E tales are an important aspect of the overall story. Whether it means a return of Blackfyre or not is still up for debate.
Where did you get those? I haven't found/read them yet.
They're usually in some anthology or collection of short stories.
Right now I think that's all, but GRRM did confirm, I think, a while back that a collection would be released in the future.
Yup, once the 4th gets published they are going to combine them into one book. For now, they can be found in the following anthologies:
Legends - The Hedge Knight
Legends II - The Sworn Sword
Warriors - The Mystery Knight
Saint Gregory
Member
One of the best ironies of the books is that Jaime is hated throughout Westeros for being the "Kingslayer" and breaking his vow to the Kingsguard when in fact he saved all of King's Landing by doing that.
Its even more awesome because he knows people think of him like that, and he just don't give a fuck.
Its so weird how my allegiance to different houses have changed over the course of the books.
Still rooting for the Greyjoys though. Got a soft spot for fellow water-farers and ocean lovers.
The first two are also in comic form. They are awesome, especially The Hedge Knight.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1932796061/ (Look inside!)
arglebargle
Member
my thoughts on individual characters have shifted a lot (tyrion and jaime are the best examples) but i have been pro-stark and anti-lannister since the beginning. what houses have you changed your mind on?
arglebargle
Member
agreed. similarly i like tyrion and jaime, but would rather see them die than see them help the lannisters continue to rule. the lannisters cannot win.
Saint Gregory
Member
He definitely felt that way afterwards but the book makes it pretty plain that his original plan was to get out of dodge before anyone realized he did it but Ned showed up and ruined things. It's clear that's where his real hatred of the Starks began whereas Cercei's came from her jealousy of Lyanna.
(On a side note I love how you believe for most of the books that Cercei hates Lyanna because Robert loved her when it was really Rhaegar's love for her that drove Cerscei insane)
I have a soft spot for the Greyjoys too, they're a deeply misguided bunch but there's something endearing about them... even that prick Theon.
I liked Tyrion from his first appearance, and disliked the rest of the principals, but I certainly changed my views regarding Jaime across the series so far.
I like all of the Starks aside from Sansa and Catelyn. They both irritate me with stupid, romantic, impractical ideas.
The only Greyjoy I like is Damphair.
I like The Hound, and have done from the start. I'm not sure if I was meant to though. He's such a bastard
I like all of the Starks aside from Sansa and Catelyn. They both irritate me with stupid, romantic, impractical ideas.
The only Greyjoy I like is Damphair.
I like The Hound, and have done from the start. I'm not sure if I was meant to though. He's such a bastard
I really like Tommen though. He's such a sweet, good-hearted kid, nothing like his mother or older brother. I was really sad when Cersei wouldn't let him train with Ser Loras.
arglebargle
Member
thats a good point. with joff and tywin dead, and tyrion and jaime in my pro column, im not even sure who i am rooting against besides cersei when i say im anti-lannister. kevan was always pretty good.
so i guess its just cersei who cant win.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Zombie Caetlyn whaaaaat?
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Yeah. I dont know where he got that stuff. I'm sure she was put off by him not oogling her, but the fact that robert never cared for her is the heart of the issue.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Tyrion + Jaimie and the remaining Starks should team up and become the Avengers of Westeros.
Or I can shut up. Whichever.
Or I can shut up. Whichever.
Saint Gregory
Member
Actually, I might have been combining the Rhaegar giving Lyanna the beauty prize at the tourney incident with the her hating Elia because she married Rhaegar instead of Cercei incident. I read all five books so fast.
It felt like the Cercei chapters of AFFC shed new light on some of that backstory with her expecting to be married to Rhaegar but you're right, no one should know that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love.
Maybe i'm confused but isnt that why Neds dad and brother went to kings landing and ended up getting killed by the mad king? Wasn't it well known that Rhaegar kidnapped lyanna?
I agree.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
The remaining Starks if given the chance are going the fuck the Lannisters hard.
Arya would kill Jaimie the second he fell asleep. He killed Jory and attacked her father. I don't know how she would react to tyrion though.
Am I the only one who wants Arya to go hang around Dany and when she makes a comment that Ned Stark was the Usurpers dog Arya to just stab her?
Steelyuhas
Member
That would be awesome.
Either way cersei was always eating (or wanting to eat) lyanna's leftovers.
Yea it would be awesome if Arya who looks like Lyanna took cersei down that would just make her go even more crazy but that would take too long so its not likely. And its even worse in rhaegars case cause its Ellia and Lyanna's leftover and she never even got any lol.
I'm still confused on what Rhaegar's whole "deal" was. On one hand we have him being described as a studious individual that just read books all day. Then he started reading books on prophecy and started to train in swords and stuff. Yet on the other he is accused of kidnapping and rape. Yeah, I get that the whole rape thing is from the other perspective and I don't believe for a second he did it but it still seems out of character. The whole giving a rose to lyanna instead of his wife. By all accounts he was a smart dude and knew this would cause issues. And the whole running off with lyanna thing when he seemed to be devoted to learning how to rule. Maybe it all had to do with the prophecy he read?
Like maybe he did initially think Ageon was going to be the prince that was promised. Just lije what Dany say in the house of the Undying. Rhaegar must have read something like, "only the dragon can melt the coming cold" and assumed "hey, Dorne is the sun. If the dragon mates with the sun THAT'S two heat sources, let's see this coming cold withstand that."
But then he probably read more and figured maybe the dragon needs to mate with the cold to make an ice dragon and went after lyanna. He has to have had a plan. He's described as being such a badass I can't see him losing his head over trivial matters of the heart.
elrechazado
Banned
It's pretty clear that it wasn't kidnapping and it wasn't rape. Lyanna went willingly
I agree but I'm just saying it was out of character for him to stir up so much drama over a chick. There must of been a bigger reason forcing his hand.
I think it's mentioned Rhaegar was big into mysticism, as well, and there was the whole prophecy about ice and fire . . .
Well thats where the jon being Rhaegars and Lyanna's son theories come into play.
Yup but Robert was in love with Lyanna (who I think didn't love him back and loved Rhaegar instead) and Cersei then had a crush on Robert who didn't give a shit about her because he still wanted Lyanna.
Basically Cersei just wants to be with whatever guy is the flavor of the week.
That's only in the show though
Yeah. In the book you see how, for a second, she could have loved him . . . but then he fucks her and calls her Lyanna soon after his victory. :lol
Basileus777
Member
In AFFC Cersei thinks about how she was attracted to Robert before their wedding night.
Yea I just re-read that part in game of thrones. I forgot that she tried to seduce Ned in that scene, and his reply asking her if she tried the same thing with Jon Arryn was fucking perfect.
Show Cersei and Book cersei are pretty different. I still think she had a crush on him before he said the lyanna thing though. She seems like the type that would go after anyone who was wanted by all the women so she can prove she was the best looking girl.
I think the younger queen prophecy made her like this because as long as she is considered the prettiest no one can take all that is dear to her but the second Margeary came into play her son died and she is losing it cause she knows she is next soon.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I think you hit it on the head. He realized that Aegon was NOT the prince that was promised, because his song is not the song of ice and fire. So he reasoned he would need to get with Lyanna to fulfill the prophesy. I suppose he gave her the rose in a concerted effort to win her heart, knowing full well it would cause trouble, but he was looking at the big picture.
Saint Gregory
Member
Once again, I read through the books really fast so forgive me if I off on this but I was pretty sure that Cercei was into Robert for a time but ended up hating him before they ever got married. She hated him for killing Rhaegar and hated Lyanna before then too, the whole sloppy wedding night name slip up was just the icing on the cake.
Didn't the prophecy make it seem like all her children, not just Joffrey, would die before her? I remember being really sad thinking about that since I really like the other two kids.
i remember it saying she will lose all the things that she loves or something along those lines. so many martin can spin it where the kids hate her and she loses their love.
Like if jaimie kills her and the kids end up taking his side or something. she would still have lost them but in a different way. Or if they are kidnapped they could be considered lost. I think thats why she was so against Tyrion marrying them off and sending them away.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
Really? I enjoyed the Cersie chapters in AFFC. You should really just wait to see what awaits instead of asking about a book you've not read yet. That being said; IMO ADWD is a better read, but some of the prose in AFFC is amazing.
If you are expecting SoS, then it doesn't. If you are expecting typical GRRM then yes, sort of. As always I wonder if GRRM knows how to wrap up the stories. At least at this point. If you read the prologues then you saw that he declared AFFC as a bitch to write, and DWD as the mother of all bitches.
I dont really like the way he split up the stories, i.e. the last two books being one book, but since you dont have to wait for DWD it doesn't really matter.
Anyway the Theon chapters are fucked up in a good way, and there are nice twists to the story. Daenerys chapters are among the boring ones for me. Although I think I understand why is it written like that. Hopefully it picks up pace in the next book.
The only thing I hated is how nobody shared John's point in rescuing and joining up with the wildlings (well ok, Stannis did, since he didn't forbid it)
- Status